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CAP 5 CAP 5 - Part 3 (Secondary Typing Poll 1)

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1: Ghost
2. Ice

I think rock/ghost would be really cool.
Ice would be interesting because most ice type pokemon are also slow, and special based and this could be physical.
 
1.no secondary typing-it would be best we cant go crazy with typing that would make it a garchomp
2.flying-it would be neat but I really would prefer 1
 
Hyra said:
Obviously dual STAB is preferable, except on Gengar, Heatran, Lucario, Salamence, and Gyarados. Hm... all are top 10 sweepers who only use one STAB move. It's not necessary to have a dual type, and in this case, most of the dual types would outshine Rock.
You're missing another extremely important point, which is the fact that while none of those Pokemon may use dual STAB, they do gain a lot of benefit from their dual typing in terms of resistances. Gyarados wouldn't be nearly as popular if it were pure Water, since it now can't come in on things like Heracross or Lucario. Same goes for Salamence. Heatran is pretty much made by its dual type; without all those valuable resistances, it'd have a much harder time switching in safely. Gengar really doesn't gain a whole lot of benefit from its second type (mainly since Ghost is already immune to Poison's most useful resistance, Fighting), but the resistances it provides never hurt.

And of course, a lot of sweepers DO use dual STAB if granted it. Tyranitar, Heracross, Garchomp, Infernape...there are a lot of sweepers out there that wouldn't be nearly the threats they are now without having two STAB attacks.

Not only that, but our Pokemon is most likely going to end up a fast, frail sweeper. On a defensive Pokemon, more resistances/weaknesses aren't as important since it's already capable of switching in on account of its defenses. But on something fast and frail, it's going to want as many opportunities to switch in as it can get. Now, is switching in on Normal, Fire, Poison, and Flying moves preferable, or would you rather be able to come in on Dark, Rock, Bug, Normal, Fire, and Poison attacks? Not only that, but Rock's list of resistances is pretty terrible as it is right now; it almost needs a second type if it's going to be switching in frequently with any degree of safety. A second type is a huge boon to a Pokemon like this in both terms of offense and defense; it's kind of silly to say that our Pokemon doesn't need it when it's one of the best things we could do for it!

And this isn't as big of a deal, but pure Rock doesn't really do much from a design perspective. But combine Rock with something else like Fighting or Dragon, and suddenly the design possibilities become a whole lot more interesting.
 
With the quality of artists who work on these projects, i don't think coming up with a design for a mono rock pokemon is anything to worry about.
 
fast special sweeper yeah


rock is a pretty sick offensive type, with only steel ground and fighting resisting. unfortunately all three of these types have no common weaks d_d


but imo we need more aura sphere users so


i think rock/fight is a great type, and i've been wanting it for a while.


1. fighting
2. psychic



second chioce is random

really hope rock fight wins
 
Dragon
Fighting

Both open up awesome design concepts and move pools, especially Dragon. And for reasons previously stated.
 
No Secondary Type
Normal

Well I'm pretty sure "no second" will make it to the next poll and normal will not, so I'll save my reasoning for later!
 
Finally decided on:
No Secondary Type
Steel
I really liked some of the other typings, though. Especially Fighting and Electric. But these two would be best for breaking the mold.
 
Just putting this out there to the people saying this will most likely be a glass cannon. SINCE WHEN DID SPECIAL SWEEPER MEAN GLASS CANNON?!?!?!? There are plenty of physical and special sweepers who aren't glass cannons.

I look at it this way. The majority of us want this to have no second typing. Yes it is realized that rock isn't the best defensive type which is why we can compensate for that in its BST. It doesn't NEED a dual type and shouldn't in order to break rock's mold.
 
Just putting this out there to the people saying this will most likely be a glass cannon. SINCE WHEN DID SPECIAL SWEEPER MEAN GLASS CANNON?!?!?!? There are plenty of physical and special sweepers who aren't glass cannons.

The thing is, to break the mold, it'd have to be the opposite of your basic Rock type. Typical Rock has:
HP: high
Atk: high
Def: high
Spd: low
SpA: low
SpD: low

So if you'd reverse that, you do indeed get a glass cannon.
 
typical rock has high hp?

news to me.

edit: just did a quick little run and I got 73.4 for average for rocks for HP not including arceus

I don't know the Pokemon average, but 73.4 certainly doesn't seem high to me

so I mean, if we reverse the mold in all the statistical fronts, we would have moderate to high hp (since I am assuming 73 is moderate to low HP), low attack, low defense, high speed, high special attack, high special defense

moderate to high hp + high special defense isn't a glass cannon ~_~
 
the lowest hp-ed fully evolved rock is magcargo, at 50. then we have a handful at 60 (kabutops and probopass), a whole bunch at 70 (aggron, omastar, armaldo), then we're upwards of 80 for the rest.

so, while not as high hp as most dedicated walls, we're still fairly high for almost all rock types. especially the rock types that get use.
 
the lowest hp-ed fully evolved rock is magcargo, at 50. then we have a handful at 60 (kabutops and probopass), a whole bunch at 70 (aggron, omastar, armaldo), then we're upwards of 80 for the rest.

so, while not as high hp as most dedicated walls, we're still fairly high for almost all rock types. especially the rock types that get use.
You mean the great statistical average of only TTar's stats? Seeing as he is the only Rock type that is actually used, and he pretty much doesn't follow any stereotypes, because he has so much BST.

I think where Mekkah is getting the HP thing is mainly Rhyperior, and assuming it follows for most of the unused Rocks, which it sort of does.
 
You mean the great statistical average of only TTar's stats? Seeing as he is the only Rock type that is actually used, and he pretty much doesn't follow any stereotypes, because he has so much BST.

I think where Mekkah is getting the HP thing is mainly Rhyperior, and assuming it follows for most of the unused Rocks, which it sort of does.

Yeah, Latinoheats chart only pooled from OU/BL, despite the fact that excludes a large variety of pokemon.

Golem: 80
Omastar: 70
Kabutops: 60
Aerodactyl: 80
Sudowoodo: 70
Shuckle: 20 (outlier)
Magcargo: 50
Corsola: 55
Tyranitar: 100
Aggron: 70
Lunatone: 70
Solrock: 70
Cradily: 86
Armaldo: 75
Relicanth: 100
Regirock: 80
Rampardos: 97
Bastiodon: 60
Rhyperior: 115
Probopass: 60
Total pokemon: 19 (Shuckle excluded)

Average: 1388/19 = 73.05

Shuckle drags the average down to 70. 70HP is pretty high for an average stat of every pokemon of the type.
 
Okay, the average might be 73. But to know whether or not that 73 is high or low, you need to calculate the average for all the types and compare.

After all, 120 base HP is high only because most Pokemon have less base HP. If the majority of Pokemon had 200 base HP or more, 120 base HP would be laughably low.
 
Well, they're was Bulbepedia with it's stat averages of every Pokemon type, but the site isn't opening so I probably have to do some by hand. This will take me awhile

Average HP of final formed Pokemon of each type.
---------
Bug: 62.96 (27)
Dark: 75.68 (16)
Dragon: 94.08 (12)
Electric: 71.25 (16)
Fighting: 74.4 (15)
Fire: 79.23 (17)
Flying: 79.34 (41)
Ghost: 68.18 (11)
Grass: 79.38 (26)
Ground: 84.5 (24)
Ice: 81.78 (14)
Normal: 88.88 (44)
Poison: 76.36 (22)
Psychic: 77.31 (38)
Rock: 73. 05 (19)
Steel: 73.72 (18)
Water: 84.26 (50)

Total Average: 77.90

Man Water, Psychic, Flying, and Normal don't fuck around when it comes to number =/
 
1. Dragon
2. Ground


Both have good offensive coverage (Rock-Ground is awesome, and Dragon/Rock is only resisted by a few.)
Ground lose to WAter/Grass, but nothing a Bulky grass cant solve =]
 
1- No secondary typing
2- Ghost - Unusual typing mostly for intrest in seeing what it would look like and it would make a fun mold to break.
 
Lol no, 70 is not pretty high haha.

Where exactly are you getting that from, Deck Knight?

If GT's calcs are right, only 4 types have lower average HP (I'm using 73 for Rock) than Rock.

Still "pretty high"?

Didn't think so.
 
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