CAP 8 CAP 8 - Concept Assessment

[zarator]

Why Static is our last best hope:

Static confers a 30% chance of paralysis on a foe when they use a contact move. The only problem is that most of the pokemon that possess it either A: outspeed the opponent either way or B: Are insufficiently bulky to be absorbing contact hits. Ampharos and Electrode are arguably the best existent users, Trode because it can take a U-turn and then outspeed the opponent's next pokemon, and Ampharos because it is the only Electric type that is remotely bulky (Magnezone and Rotom-A, sadly, do not possess Static). Even then, 90/75/90 is not exactly confidence inspiring, especially since the most common physical attacks outside of Earthquake are Elemental punches.

Given the right type, this pokemon could be the perfect pivot from Scizor and Gyarados. It could switch in on Fire Punch and Thunder Punch and leave the opponent with a 30% chance to be paralyzed with minimal harm to itself. Additionally it could switch in to take a Bullet Punch (or, less successfully, a U-Turn) and paralyze Scizor in return, destroying much of the viability of its other moves and giving it an effective 75% accuracy.

Static is already proven to be disruptive in Little Cup, where the large use of priority attacks and U-turn. Written onto OU it could greatly dampen the effectiveness of physical attackers.

The only common physical attacks that do not possess Physical Contact trait are Earthquake and Stone Edge. With a potential combination of Magnet Rise and at least neutrality to rock, the employment of these moves can be hampered.

Is this an anttempt to sway a CAP towards your old parabusing tank? Seriously, Static may come in handy, but
1) It is not much more reliable than a Discharge or a Lava Plume (with the difference that at least the moves deal damage. Here you actually need to take damage, which can be recovered but still is damage)
2) Our last hope? There is a ton of possibilities out there. Trying to make Static resembling the only chance to have a decent CAP without even giving a reason why EVERY other route is impossible to take is stupid and hypocrit

 

[Azacin]

Forecast would be AWESOME. But, we would have to make different sprites for Hail, Sandstorm, Sunny Day, and Rain...

 

[Deck Knight]

Is this an anttempt to sway a CAP towards your old parabusing tank? Seriously, Static may come in handy, but
1) It is not much more reliable than a Discharge or a Lava Plume (with the difference that at least the moves deal damage. Here you actually need to take damage, which can be recovered but still is damage)
2) Our last hope? There is a ton of possibilities out there. Trying to make Static resembling the only chance to have a decent CAP without even giving a reason why EVERY other route is impossible to take is stupid and hypocrit

Yet Discharge and Lava Plume are used in place of the more powerful, equally accurate, and still w/ effect Thunderbolt and Flamethrower on bulkier sets.

Static is no more towards my specific concept than Skill Link is toward Infinite Attack. Static gives a solid direction on where to go because of the inherent weaknesses current Static users possess.

What direction does Magic Guard and Wonder Guard take us? N00bsville, that's where. They are insanely broken abilities and the only reason they are "neglected" is because Shedinja gets taken out by any hazard and Clefable has insufficent power to make it into OU. Clefable is everywhere in UU. The idea it is somehow a "neglected" ability when it is both unique to and prominent in the metagame closest matching Clefable's power is thus preposterous. There are people who employ Lv 1 Cleffa, Clefairy, and Clefable on Hail teams solely because of Hazard immunity + Endeavor nearly guarantees a KO on any pokemon.

Wonder Guard is so disgusting as to not warrant mention. Even with an abysmal defensive typing like Abomasnow's it would still have 10 immunities.

 

[Princess_power]

Wonder Guard, Magic Guard, Shield Dust, Tinted Lens, and Forecast all look like wonderful abillities to experiment with.

Wonder Guard: What amazing potential for wreaking havoc and mayhem against an unprepared opponent. The idea of a sweeper or wall being rendered completely helpless by a Poke like this is pretty neat; I could see a Wonder Guard wall becoming a serious threat... perhaps too much of one. Even Celebi, with its plethora of weaknesses, would still have 9 or so immunties.

Magic Guard: Defines Clefable. With only so-so stats, Softboiled and Encore, Clefable's still proved to be pretty good. Immunity to ALL forms of residual damage it downright crazy; Leech Seed, Toxic, Life Orb, Double Edge.. all of this could combine into an exemplary sweeper or tank. But with Clefable running wild...

Shield Dust: Perfect against Serence Grace abusers, especially Togekiss and Jirachi. This would also put some pressure on stall teams that rely on Discharge or Lava Plume; however, the a viable user of Shield Dust would need pretty good stats, which is why I think that

Tinted Lens: Would be a lot better. Yanmega's 2 excellent abillities have always bothered me; it's hard to choose which one. On one hand, with Tinted Lens, you don't really need prediction with STAB Bug Buzz ripping everything in sight to shreds, but it makes you way too vulnerable to Heatran. A poke that can fully abuse Tinted Lens (bad, but in a good way) boasting awful type coverage but fun moves would be nice to see.

Forecast: YES! This is what I would define a "neglected abillity" as. Belonging only to Castform, who has god awful stats, there is so much wasted potential here. If a new poke was created that had the stats or movepool to fully support the variabillity that Forecast brings, that would be great. You could have a Hail Sweeper, a Rain Wall, a Sunny Nuke, a Sandy Supporter... anything! It would simutaneously use one of the most neglected abilities in the game (I've never seen Castform on a team) as well as exploring what empty niches there are in the metagame concerning weather.

*I am against a Mold Breaker ground type that can sweep with STAB Earthquake.*

But, we would have to make different sprites for Hail, Sandstorm, Sunny Day, and Rain...

The more sprites, the merrier!

@Deck_Knight: A bulky electric type sounds fun. Are you thinking along the lines of your paralysis abusing tank?

 

[cyberzero]

There are some very good arguments and abilities here, and as they come, I will discuss them on the server and the list will fluctuate accordingly. Just because an ability is a Allowed, Not Allowed or Pending doesn't mean it's going to stay there!

 

[SgtWoodsy]

Oh, and for everyone thinking about Abilities at the moment, I definitely wouldn't be thinking about a Secondary Ability.

Two Abilities defeats the purpose of the concept, and it makes everyone's job a hell of a lot harder.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Things like Wonder Guard are simply too delicate for CAP to handle in its current state. Maybe by CAP15 we'll have enough experience to put together a Wonder Guard CAP without completely destroying the metagame, but until then, I strongly feel that it should not even be discussed.

I'm not fond of Colour Change, either. I don't know about you, but to me, Salamence and Kitsunoh are common enough.

One that I really like is umbreonleader's suggestion of Rough Skin. When you think about it, it really is a good ability. Damaging your opponent whenever they use a contant move is really nice. It just a shame that Shapedo has those 40 base defenses. But consider Rough Skin on a Pokemon like Swampert, and I think you'll realize why it's so great.

 

[Lostmyth]

Color change and Shield dust seem really interesting, though if possible I would want no guard.

 

[Deck Knight]

@Deck_Knight: A bulky electric type sounds fun. Are you thinking along the lines of your paralysis abusing tank?

Well, considering the vast majority of contact attacks are physical attacks, at the very least the pokemon would need to be physically defensive. This at least gives some direction, whereas Magic Guard and Wonder Guard are throwaway abilities. They are so broken that they can be used on any pokemon with any stat spread and still be successful. I use Shedinja in Ubers to great effect, despite it having 1 HP. It's probably the 12 immunities.

Forecast strikes me as similarly odd because it basically allows Abomasnow, Tyranitar and Hippowdon to define your offensive or defensive capability.

Tinted Lens and Skill Link I could support, but quite frankly Magic/Wonder Guard provide this project with no direction, where it's concept is already sorely lacking it.

So I guess to summarize I'd be putting Static for Allowed and Wonder/Magic Guard for Unallowed.

 

[Afti]

The way Forecast works, it's not an option.

It will only function when given to Castform.

Unless you feel like changing the way the ability functions, you're out of luck.

 

[Not Scicky]

"This Pokémon's type changes to Fire under sun, to Water under rain, and to Ice under hail. Forecast does not change the Pokémon's type in sandstorm. If this Pokémon is changed to a certain type, and then is hit with Gastro Acid, or receives a different trait via Role Play or Skill Swap, it is stuck in that same form until it switches, even if the weather changes."

Now where there does it say it will only work on castform?

 

[Elegy]

I personally like Skill Link and Anger Point.

Skill Link is an ability based of it's user's Attacks, and therefore a Pokemon can be easily be built around it. The same goes for Iron Fist and Reckless, both of which power up the Attacks themselves and not the user.

And Anger Point is just one of those abilities that interest me. This concept is just so open that I couldn't rely on anything but personal taste to make my decisions. =/

 

[Arcticblast]

Mold Breaker
-This could be a really good ability. The only Pokemon who get it are either too frail (Rampardos) or outclassed (Pinsir) to use it on OU. Being able to use EQ through Levitate (Hello Bronzong), use Fire moves on Heatran, lower Tentacruel's and Metagross's stats, and so much more... (cancel out Persistent and Mountaineer?)

When this Pokemon becomes active, it nullifies the abilities of opposing active Pokemon that hinder this Pokemon's attacks. These abilities include Battle Armor, Clear Body, Damp, Dry Skin, Filter, Flash Fire, Flower Gift, Heatproof, Hyper Cutter, Immunity, Inner Focus, Insomnia, Keen Eye, Leaf Guard, Levitate, Lightningrod, Limber, Magma Armor, Marvel Scale, Motor Drive, Oblivious, Own Tempo, Sand Veil, Shell Armor, Shield Dust, Simple, Snow Cloak, Solid Rock, Soundproof, Sticky Hold, Storm Drain, Sturdy, Suction Cups, Tangled Feet, Thick Fat, Unaware, Vital Spirit, Volt Absorb, Water Absorb, Water Veil, White Smoke and Wonder Guard.

This would be really good. Please, keep it Allowed.

Static
Not as much as above, but this could work. A medium Defense and godly Sp Defense may lure physical contact moves to the CAP, activating Static (hey, just a possibility...).

If an opponent directly attacks this Pokemon, there is a 30% chance that the opponent will become paralyzed.

 

[cyberzero]

Weather will be on the down-low as of now. All weather-related abilities will be Pending until at least the typing polls, at which time we can tell if the types will support the weather in question. Wonder Guard can be useful, but yes, it would have to have weak defenses and 5 or 6 common weaknesses to be even remotely considered.

@Arcticblast: Mold Breaker IS allowed.

 

[Afti]

"This Pokémon's type changes to Fire under sun, to Water under rain, and to Ice under hail. Forecast does not change the Pokémon's type in sandstorm. If this Pokémon is changed to a certain type, and then is hit with Gastro Acid, or receives a different trait via Role Play or Skill Swap, it is stuck in that same form until it switches, even if the weather changes."

Now where there does it say it will only work on castform?

If Forecast is Skill Swapped/Traced/hacked onto any other Pokemon, it does nothing. The Ability Description should be amended to indicate that.

 

[Arcticblast]

@Arcticblast: Mold Breaker IS allowed.

I meant keep it there... edited origional post now to say that.

 

[cyberzero]

I meant keep it there...

If the bias dictates that Mold Breaker would be a valid option on the Pokemon, it will stay. If the community votes for a defensive bias, an offensive Ability such as Mold Breaker would be completely irrelevant, and therefore would be moved to Unallowed.

 

[Gir!]

Defensive Color Change makes this an excellent Pokemon to switch in on Choice users, as many common types (Fire, Ice, Water, Grass, Poison, Electric, Psychic, Dark, Steel) are resistant to themselves. The ability to come in on the vast majority of Choice users and force them out in many cases would be quite useful. For example:



All of a sudden CB Scizor has to switch out, because Bullet Punch is going to do crap to CAP8 now. Of course, this is far from the only time Color Change would be useful...

I second this, Color Change would probably give this CAP good switch-in opportunitie.

 

[Kamen Rider]

Well we are certainly not short of abilities, I thought I might a few suggestions on how to narrow down the list for those still deciding what to support.

1) Is the ability consistant? I think a good ability is one that is dependable and you can design both movesets and teams to take advantage of. I dont think any ability that goes off at random or even worse, capable of being manipulated by the opponent with standard teams should be considered.

2) Does the ability help the pokemon or your team? I have seen a few suggestions for negative abilites in the hope of offsetting it with amazing stats and moves. I think this is a really bad idea. For one I dont think people would really want to use a pokemon that would potentially be gimped the entire match, regardless of potential benefits. Not to mention it once again puts potential power in the hands of the opponent. If an ability is exploitable, they will take advantage of it.

3) Does it help or hurt the metagame. I see a lot potentially beneficial niches some of the abilites can add but there are a couple I think go to far and would just decrease diversity instead. We just want to shake up the metagame, not shatter it.

 

[Tint]

his at least gives some direction, whereas Magic Guard and Wonder Guard are throwaway abilities.

I agree, but I think Mold Breaker is our best bet. It gives almost a set limit on how good the ability can be, and is the least prone to abuse. It gives a definite definition, (a more bulky user of it), and way less room to mess up.

CAP has turned into a bunch of newer users (including me) who don't even play CAP (not me), so an idea of how bad magic and wonderguard or even Huge/Pure Power will mess things up is not really present. Anyone can vote on these things, including people who just make an account and decide "omg we need wonderguard to make it a good pokemon", and their number of voters are coming close to people who know what they're talking about, so a fool-proof idea is almost vital to the success of CAP 8.

 

[polelover44]

I think the following abilities could really work:
Magic Guard - amazing ability. This would allow for a lot more Focus Sash pokemon, while getting less SR, which is majorly overcentralizing the metagame.
Mold Breaker - extremely useful. If a Mold Breaking Pokemon had some bulk, this could be an amazing ability.
Shield Dust - O.O Togekiss doesn't dominate the metagame anymore! No more FlinchHax! Seriously, a *good* pokemon with Shield Dust could destroy something like Togekiss, or Jirachi
Tinted Lens - Had Nintendo not given Yanmega Speed Boost, Tinted Lens Yanmega would be running amok with only Aggron and Bastiodon to resist its Air Slash.

 

[Not Scicky]

If Forecast is Skill Swapped/Traced/hacked onto any other Pokemon, it does nothing. The Ability Description should be amended to indicate that.

Just because it doesn't work on those things doesn't mean it shouldn't work on CAP8, the cause is that the pokemon it's hacked/traced/swapped onto don't have it naturally (I'd assume), and since CAP8 (if we chose) would have it naturally, the problem would be resolved

 

[Afti]

Just because it doesn't work on those things doesn't mean it shouldn't work on CAP8, the cause is that the pokemon it's hacked/traced/swapped onto don't have it naturally (I'd assume), and since CAP8 (if we chose) would have it naturally, the problem would be resolved

The game doesn't recognize "having it naturally", only "having it".

It is coded solely for Castform.

 

[Princess_power]

Does this mean that Forecast should be placed under "Not Allowed" for codability? Is there any way around this, Afti?

 

[Lightning Storm]

I'm almost positive that any problems regarding the "Forecast=Castform only" could be very easily worked around. Whats stopping us from just saying Forecast=Castform OR Cap8? (obviously not the right syntax at ALL!)