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Celebi (Analysis)

TBH I don't see much use for running max speed either; there's nothing that you should be aiming for under 100 speed bar toxicroak, which will be using sucker punch anyway, and venomoth. Settle at enough to outrun base 85s.
 
At this point, I can't really comment on any set but the first, which should be Nasty Plot / Giga Drain / Recover with the fourth slot Hidden Power Fire / Psychic / Earth Power. Even though Giga Drain provides some recovery, it's usually not enough, and in my opinion, it's worth sacrificing the extra coverage for reliable recovery. Also, Signal Beam should be mentioned for Lati@s, Reuniclus, and opposing Celebi.
 
This is what the Nasty Plot set should look like:

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Recover
move 3: Giga Drain
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 220 HP / 252 SpA / 36 Spe

SJCrew's post explained well why Modest is better than Timid, but you should still mention the 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid spread in the AC section. The listed spread puts you ahead of Jolly Tyranitar (because of Hidden Power Fire), but it would be worth noting an additional 4 or 8 EVs will let you beat bulky Jirachi. You need Recover and Leftovers in order to set up on things like Gliscor and Ferrothorn, and Hidden Power Fire is pretty much a staple now with the aforementioned Ferro being everywhere.

I would personally never use the Choice set but it has its merits I guess. It's pretty messy and hard to read so here's a bit of cleaning up (all I did was get rid of U-turn, which should be mentioned in AC):

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Trick / Psychic
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Other things...

  • You can get rid of the Non-Boosting Attacker. It's pretty much the same as Tinkerbell, so you can just mention on the Tinkerbell set that Earth Power can go over Thunder Wave.
  • Rest can be removed from Tinkerbell.
  • SpD EVs on Defensive set should go to Defense.
  • Baton Pass can also be axed. Mew outclasses it in pretty much every way.
  • Perish Song is also Other Options material for sure. You can just mention Perish Song on the Defensive set anyways.

Alright that's a lot of changes so I put a little summary here. Everyone is free to discuss this but I really think this is the best way to frame Celebi's analysis, especially since it makes things a lot more straightforward.

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Recover
move 3: Giga Drain
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 220 HP / 252 SpA / 36 Spe

[SET]
name: Tinkerbell
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power / Psychic
move 4: Recover
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Giga Drain / Grass Knot
move 2: Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Thunder Wave / Leech Seed
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Trick / Psychic
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

EDIT: Yay!

QC Approved 1/3
 
Confirming what Iconic and I spoke about on IRC. I'll approve this once those changes are made!
 
Sorry for posting after the QC check, but why not run Rest as an option on the Choice Set? Upon switching out it deletes the status due to Natural Cure, and is great for auto-healing.
 
MikeDecIsHere said:
I completely disagree with this statement. On paper, nasty plot looks better, but with base 100 speed, its not. This is the same issue with Tail Glow Manaphy vs. Calm Mind Manaphy. Sure +2 spatk is nice, but you're open to being revenge killed by Pokemon on either side of the attacking spectrum. With Calm Mind, Celebi becomes significantly tougher to take down specially, meaning that its much harder to revenge kill.

A lot of people will say that Calm Mind Manaphy was scarier than Tail Glow Manaphy, even though Tail Glow is now +3. I'm not saying that nasty plot shouldn't be mentioned, but a more conservative stat boosting set should be added.
Click to expand...

^This

The notion that +2 SpA outclasses +1 SpA +1 SpD is total hogwash. Unlike NP Celebi, CM Celebi isn't totally destroyed by things like Specs Meteor at 80% health and can tank things like Starmie much better. Nasty Plot does have some selling points, but by no means does it outclass Calm Mind.

The fact that people were willing to use Calm Mind Manaphy (+1 SpA, +1 SpD) over Tail Glow (+3 SpA) only confirms this argument.
 
I'm wondering why QC didn't like the idea of a Specially Defensive set.
It completely fucks over Rain Teams (bar Tornadus), and it walls CM Reuniclus.
It avoids being 2HKOed by Sp Def MixTar's Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Pursuit, or even Stone Edge if it ever runs that. It 2HKOes back using Grass Knot.

Furthermore, what physical moves will Grass/Psychic typing wall anyway?
Ground? Chomp Subs down until you miss, then it sets up on you. Excadrill X-Scissors you to death.
Does it wall Fighting? Terrakion X-Scissors you. Conkeldurr Paybacks you.

I know it's been through QC, but why is there not so much as a mention in the whole thing. It's very useful.
 
Why does this thing only have for sets? It's celebi for crying out loud... No Calm Mind? No Baton Pass? No all-out-attacker?

I'm definately in agreement with a specially defensive set, as specially defensive Celebi is even more of a dick than physically defensive Celebi (need a Rotom counter? I sure as fuck do...). Not so much as a mention of Perish Song or Reflect on Celebi's only support set... mehhhhhh
 
Willing to takeover. If its fine with the mods. The user hasn't been on in a while now and the thread hasn't been touched in a month.
 
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