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Celebi

Figured I'd revive the topic with something useful.

Celebi @ Life Orb (Nasty Plot)
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP , input on this would be nice.
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Leaf Storm / Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power / Psychic

The premise of a set like this is simple: Boost and sweep. Nasty Plot is an obvious choice, and a choice between Leaf Storm and Energy Ball is whether or not you want to nuke bulkier waters without any previous setup. As an added bonus, the extra power helps immensely with breaking past CM abusers like Reuniclus and Suicune.

Hidden Power is a choice between whether or not you want to kill off Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Forretress, or various Dragon-types like Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite and such. The fourth slot is an auxillary move. Earth Power lets you get past Heatran who otherwise walls this set, or Psychic to dispatch of Conkeldurr and friends.

The choice of nature is simple: You need to be outspeeding neutral-natured base 100s alongside neutral-natured Garchomp. EVs can be tweaked, and eventually I'd need to calculate the power of Leaf Storm vs Energy Ball.
 
Demo-Kun said:
Figured I'd revive the topic with something useful.

Celebi @ Life Orb (Nasty Plot)
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP , input on this would be nice.
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Leaf Storm / Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power / Psychic

The premise of a set like this is simple: Boost and sweep. Nasty Plot is an obvious choice, and a choice between Leaf Storm and Energy Ball is whether or not you want to nuke bulkier waters without any previous setup. As an added bonus, the extra power helps immensely with breaking past CM abusers like Reuniclus and Suicune.

Hidden Power is a choice between whether or not you want to kill off Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Forretress, or various Dragon-types like Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite and such. The fourth slot is an auxillary move. Earth Power lets you get past Heatran who otherwise walls this set, or Psychic to dispatch of Conkeldurr and friends.

The choice of nature is simple: You need to be outspeeding neutral-natured base 100s alongside neutral-natured Garchomp. EVs can be tweaked, and eventually I'd need to calculate the power of Leaf Storm vs Energy Ball.
Click to expand...
You'd have to alternate between Nasty Plot and Leaf Storm, to balance your Special Attack stat. I'd go with Energy Ball.
 
I use that set with Nasty Plot/Giga Drain/HP Fire/Psychic but I use 180 Speed EVs (beats +nature base 90s with HP Fire's IV drop), 252 SpAtk EVs, 72 HP EVs [hits LO number] and 4 Defense EVs [filler].
I think Giga Drain is overall better than Energy Ball because of the HP gain. Psyshock might work instead of Psychic but I've barely seen any Blissey or Chansey recently.
 
That's the main gripe of using an offensive Celebi (or Grass Sweepers in general); there are so many things that can wall it. No one moveset can cover all of the defensive threats. I agree with Cromat - Celebi is more threatening if it has some utility move to prevent Celebi from being a free switch-in. A Nasty Plot set with HP Fire can have Leech Seed to sap whatever that comes in to take a special hit. If a Grass type comes in, you got a +2 HP Fire. HP Fire is in general a solid choice, because you don't want the many Steel monsters to stack Spikes without a fight. U-turn is good to keep the momentum / same with BPass, especially if you have stat-up moves. Thunder Wave is effective on Celebi because Grounds are afraid of the Grass STAB. Perish Song is probably the best answer to CM Reunicles, and can help bring in your Sweeper for free. Celebi works well with entry hazard support, as Lou Cypher has mentioned.

Reflect / Light Screen / Heal Bell are great utility moves, but it is somewhat vulnerable to Steels coming in and set-up Spikes. Magnezone has always been a good partner with Celebi, similarly to Heatran.

Celebi has a bad case of a 4-moveslot syndrome. Especially if you decide to enhance its bulk with Recover, at times it is unable to accomplish much. Even then, it still provides a pretty handy stop against certain Sweepers that your other team members don't want to be bothered with.
 
Wow, this thing only gets two pages of discussion. Not that I blame it though.

Anyways, has anybody ever considered SubSeed Celebi this generation? I looked over the analysis that I did and realized I failed to mention SubSeed. If I were to write it again, it'd look like this:

name: SubSeed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Giga Drain
move 4: Baton Pass
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

Okay, so basically Celebi can switch into so many things in the metagame. This gives it plenty of opportunities to scout the opponent's answer to it, and use the following: Baton Pass or Leech Seed. Baton Pass seems good, seeing that you can beatSeismic Toss Blissey with Substitute and passing the Sub away, and you can provide extra protection for recipients such as Multiscale Dragonite.

Long story short, Sub + Seed + Pass Celebi seems good. Thoughts?
 
Accidental Greed, your strategy comes pretty darn close to the Celebi I've been playing around with: the team.

As you can see, the main difference is that my Celebi also attempts to Baton Pass Calm Minds, and it is specially bulky to help it set-up on Special Sweepers. Leech Seed is also cool, though - they both have their pros and cons. CM + Sub Pass, for instance, doesn't like dealing with Dragonite and Skarmory. Oh yea, it also wears down fast, since Giga Drain and lefties are the only means of recovery.
 
Since I hate phazing so much, I run CM Magic Coat in UU. In my experience, you can go ahead and baton pass against skarmory. They'll most likely go for the brave bird as opposed to phazing you.
 
Yea, I run that Sub+CM Celebi with Espeon on one of my teams, since Substitute comes in handy against blocking status and Seismic Tosses, allowing Celebi to set up on Pokemon like Blissey, Roserade, and Jirachi. With Substitute, U-turn wouldn't force Celebi to prematurely BP out, either.
 
AccidentalGreed said:
Long story short, Sub + Seed + Pass Celebi seems good. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The set looks good, but I would probably slash Recover in with Leech Seed and Substitute...*insert grass type* switches in and removes your recovery. BP is an excellent move on every Celebi set and absolutely deserves more use.

Also, specially defensive Celebi deserves more love:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Thunder Wave / Perish Song
- Baton Pass
- Recover

You can fit HP Fire in there if you want to use this on a sand team to prevent yourself from being Skarmory and Scizor bait, but I feel this set works best on rain teams anyway. Thunder Wave lets you stop Thundurus and Latios in their tracks, but HP Ice is also handy for hitting Lando and Gliscor for 4x damage. Perish Song is always a good option for pHazing purposes. Basically, this is the best Politoed / Rotom-W counter that exists (and you can't trap it either because BP lets Celebi escape Pursuit). Adding 40-80 defense EVs might be a good idea to take things like ScarfTar's Crunch better, but it wouldn't be able to take Specs Toed's Ice Beam as well.
 
I would argue that Gastrodon / Lanturn is the best Rotom-W counter, because Rotom-W can simply Volt Switch and give no time for Celebi to Recover. Also, Celebi arguably fares worse when tricked than the other two. You are definitely right that Celebi is one mean special wall, though. And yea, Baton Pass is great for the U-turn effect without the Pursuit weakness. Baton Pass can most certainly be replaced by a utility move like Reflect / Leech Seed or coverage move such as Earth Power / Psychic, as well.
 
Pocket said:
I would argue that Gastrodon / Lanturn is the best Rotom-W counter, because Rotom-W can simply Volt Switch and give no time for Celebi to Recover.
Click to expand...

I would normally agree with you, but some Rotom-Ws have been running HP Grass specifically for Gastrodon. It's still a good counter in most circumstances.
 
Pocket said:
I would argue that Gastrodon / Lanturn is the best Rotom-W counter, because Rotom-W can simply Volt Switch and give no time for Celebi to Recover. Also, Celebi arguably fares worse when tricked than the other two. You are definitely right that Celebi is one mean special wall, though. And yea, Baton Pass is great for the U-turn effect without the Pursuit weakness. Baton Pass can most certainly be replaced by a utility move like Reflect / Leech Seed or coverage move such as Earth Power / Psychic, as well.
Click to expand...


lol most Rotom-W are running HP Grass now, so Celebi is by FAR the best counter
 
Okay, yeah. I'm having too much fun with SubSeed Celebi + Dragonite / Gyarados. U-Turn, Scizor? Prepare to get set up on by a Dragon Dancer.

But, on the other hand, maybe Mario Bro's right. At times I was using Sub + Baton PAss rather than Sub + Leech Seed. I wouldn't want to upload a Celebi dedicated to Substitute passing though. Nevertheless, this thing's awesome. Too many things to switch in.
 
HIP HIP HORRAY FOR THE MASSIVE SPIKE IN CELEBI USAGE!

On topic, has anyone ever tried running Rest on Celebi? Full Hp recovery, and you can cure the sleep status simply by switching out. It often heals much more Hp than Recover and can really save you if you're at like 10% and still need Celebi to check Rotom-W later or somthing. In terms of status, Celebi had to switch out to get rid of it anyways. Currently I run a modified Tinkerbell with Rest instead of Recover. I figured since Tinkerbell is a hit and run pokemon in the first place, and has Leaf Storm and HP Fire to hit the two most common pursuiters in the game anyways, why not let it come back in at complete health the next time instead of like 75% or something. After using it for a while, I am personally under the impression that Rest Tinkerbell outclasses Recover Tinkerbell simply because it rarely stays in for more than 3 turns anyways.
 
Rest puts you in the defensive, though, forcing you to switch. Doesn't sound great to me. Shaymin has Rest because it is either that or Synthesis / Leech Seed for recovery.
 
Pocket said:
Rest puts you in the defensive, though, forcing you to switch. Doesn't sound great to me. Shaymin has Rest because it is either that or Synthesis / Leech Seed for recovery.
Click to expand...

Yeah, on a NP set, Recover is clearly superior. However, for Tinkerbell, you're usually switching out after LS or whatever anyways, so why not come back at full health?
 
Rest is definitely viable on a hit-and-run set, it's just that Celebi is usually starved for options as is. Boosted Hydro Pump and whatnot can definitely take their toll, so coming in at full health is nice. Both have their pros and cons.
 
I personally would run Rest in a hit-and-run set. When playing with Shaymin last gen, Rest saved my butt so many times, its not even funny.

As well, it's helpful because once you get to end-game, the opponent will have to often ware down Celebi (assuming its counters are gone), which means there's a lot of switching. You can win the game if you Rest and switch out on the predicted Heatran switch in.
 
I feel sorry for anyone who didn't receive a nasty plot celebi. Also, it's a shame that there are no legit shiny celebi's around...
 
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