Pokémon Charizard

Which one these MEvos will be OU in your opinion?

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KYZ3N said:
What is your Charizard X's build?
Click to expand...

Oh, it's the standard:
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Adamant, 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Flare Blitz
Earthquake

As I've said, you generally want to use Smeargle's help to debuff the opponent with Spore and Parting Shot to help Zard X's longevity, use Dragon Dance and go from there. Just a couple things to note, If you want you could make it a Jolly Charizard X instead of Adamant and exchange Outrage with Dragon Claw, I just prefer the raw killing power Adamant Outrage provides.
 
TheUltimateStorm said:
I've been screwing around with Smeargle paired with Charizard, and I thought it was worth mentioning.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Timid, Own Tempo, 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Def
Spore
Parting Shot
Magic Coat
Stealth Rock
Click to expand...

I used to run the same Smeargle but with Sticky Web instead of Magic Coat. It worked alright I guess but when I got to the 2000's on the ladder it became much less effective against better players.
TheUltimateStorm said:
Oh, it's the standard:
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Adamant, 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Flare Blitz
Earthquake
Click to expand...
I would suggest moving the 4 EVs from HP to Def. 4 HP gives you an even HP, meaning that you can only switch in as regular Zard once with SR on the field. With an odd HP stat you can switch in twice with SR as normal Zard and 4 times as MegaZardX.
 
CSchuldiner said:
Should I go with adamant or jolly for charizard X? Is there anything jolly will let it outspeed?
Click to expand...
Base 100ishes. They're pretty common - Gyarados, Charizard, Volcarona, Garchomps, Tentacruel, Hydreigon, Garchomp, Salamence, etc - and not all of them are choosing speed boosting natures or EVs. Even in XY battlezone I see more than a few Garchomps choosing to boost attack rather than speed, too (a side-effect of fairies discouraging Outrage, perhaps?).

I lean heavily on Outrage and Fireblast (Naive, though in a perfect world I'd be using Jolly and Fire Punch), so I don't really miss the extra attack. Plus with Outrage and fairies lurking, sometimes it isn't ideal to outright kill your target. ;)
 
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Just got a Charizard X from a trade today and now planning to make one! I'm wondering if I should just give Charizard just enough speed EV's to outspeed base 130 pokemon after a dragon dance, pump some EV's into HP, and put 252 of the EV's into Attack?

I used Darmanitan on my main team last gen, he still loses a lot of health after using Flare Blitz. However he has base 105 HP. Charizard doesn't, he has a pitiful 78 base HP, meaning he may die a lot quicker using flare blitz despite his better defensive typing (Stealth rocks sucks too, but I'm probably gonna use a defogger to make up for that). Thoughts? I guess using Dragon Claw or Thunder Punch would be more optimal if those moves can finish off pokemon in one hit, but for situations where fire-weak pokemon are at full health, more hp would help in taking the recoil damage better (also improves Charizard's bulk in general for setting up). I'm honestly not that worried about scarf users, my team mostly consists of walls and most scarf users aren't really that threatening to me.

Charizard@ Charizardite X
Adamant, Tough Claws 252 atk/?? speed to outspeed base 130/?? HP

Flare Blitz
Dragon Claw
Thunder Punch
Dragon Dance

Azumarill is a very prominent threat and unless it's taken enough residual damage, I don't see earthquake one shotting it even after +1. I'd love to give it Roost, but that 4 MSS made me reconsider.
 
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Plasma.EXE said:
Just got a Charizard X from a trade today and now planning to make one! I'm wondering if I should just give Charizard just enough speed EV's to outspeed base 130 pokemon after a dragon dance, pump some EV's into HP, and put 252 of the EV's into Attack?

I used Darmanitan on my main team last gen, he still loses a lot of health after using Flare Blitz. However he has base 105 HP. Charizard doesn't, he has a pitiful 78 base HP, meaning he may die a lot quicker using flare blitz despite his better defensive typing (Stealth rocks sucks too, but I'm probably gonna use a defogger to make up for that). Thoughts? I guess using Dragon Claw or Thunder Punch would be more optimal if those moves can finish off pokemon in one hit, but for situations where fire-weak pokemon are at full health, more hp would help in taking the recoil damage better (also improves Charizard's bulk in general for setting up). I'm honestly not that worried about scarf users, my team mostly consists of walls and most scarf users aren't really that threatening to me.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind though that Mega Charizard X's 111/85 Defense and Spec. Defense are much better than Darmanitan's 55/55 defenses. I see what you mean though since recoil damage directly affects HP.
 
I've been having tremendous success utilizing Mega Charizard Y! I haven't really experienced Mega Charizard X, so I won't comment on it at all. But here are my thoughts on Mega Charizard Y:
Ok, so I've been playing around with MixMegaZard Y, and holy crap this thing is a train of mass destructon. Here is the set I've been using:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Mild Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash / Roost
- Earthquake
I love this set because it catches nearly everybody off guard. People see Dragon Dance and assume I am a noob that is using physical Charizard Y, but that simply isn’t the case! It just seems odd, as people just naturally think I will be nuking then switching. This set is to try and keep Charizard in longer than just four turns and then switch out. This set has longevity, despite the lack of recovery if you don’t use Roost. Air Slash is put first simply because it hits Fighting-types hard, but you shouldn’t be too too worried about them. Fire Blast hits everything except for the various Dragon/Flying-types and bulky Water-types, which aren’t too common nowadays anyways. Fire/Ground get really good coverage, only being resisted by itself, other Fire/Flying types, Dragon/Flying types, Hydreigon, Gyarados, and Rock/Flying types. This isn’t that bad considering you have teammates for a reason, and besides, you can always switch out. It isn’t especially hard to boost, as things switch away in fear of it roasting them to death. Here are some calcs to show Earthquake’s worth:
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 428-504 (110.8 - 130.5%)
[Easy OHKO]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 206-244 (50.9 - 60.3%)
[Clean 2HKO]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 158-186 (39.1 - 46%)
[Ehh, don’t stay in on Mega Tyranitar]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 192-228 (62.9 - 74.7%)
[Easy 2HKO]
These are only a few, but if you need more I can show them for whatever you’d like honestly. I am still wishing you had more moves, but yeah. Dragon Dance is mandatory for 1.) Surprise, and 2.) Speed. It does have lackluster Speed, so this is very helpful. I am still using this set as the primary set:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Air Slash
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
All-out attacker is my personal favorite, as you get superb coverage that can easily allow you to clean up the opposition. Overall, I think Mega Charizard Y is shaping up to be the better form, but I have yet to test Mega Charizard X.
 
Chesnaught said:
I've been having tremendous success utilizing Mega Charizard Y! I haven't really experienced Mega Charizard X, so I won't comment on it at all. But here are my thoughts on Mega Charizard Y:
Ok, so I've been playing around with MixMegaZard Y, and holy crap this thing is a train of mass destructon. Here is the set I've been using:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Mild Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash / Roost
- Earthquake
I love this set because it catches nearly everybody off guard. People see Dragon Dance and assume I am a noob that is using physical Charizard Y, but that simply isn’t the case! It just seems odd, as people just naturally think I will be nuking then switching. This set is to try and keep Charizard in longer than just four turns and then switch out. This set has longevity, despite the lack of recovery if you don’t use Roost. Air Slash is put first simply because it hits Fighting-types hard, but you shouldn’t be too too worried about them. Fire Blast hits everything except for the various Dragon/Flying-types and bulky Water-types, which aren’t too common nowadays anyways. Fire/Ground get really good coverage, only being resisted by itself, other Fire/Flying types, Dragon/Flying types, Hydreigon, Gyarados, and Rock/Flying types. This isn’t that bad considering you have teammates for a reason, and besides, you can always switch out. It isn’t especially hard to boost, as things switch away in fear of it roasting them to death. Here are some calcs to show Earthquake’s worth:
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 428-504 (110.8 - 130.5%)
[Easy OHKO]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 206-244 (50.9 - 60.3%)
[Clean 2HKO]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 158-186 (39.1 - 46%)
[Ehh, don’t stay in on Mega Tyranitar]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 192-228 (62.9 - 74.7%)
[Easy 2HKO]
These are only a few, but if you need more I can show them for whatever you’d like honestly. I am still wishing you had more moves, but yeah. Dragon Dance is mandatory for 1.) Surprise, and 2.) Speed. It does have lackluster Speed, so this is very helpful. I am still using this set as the primary set:
Click to expand...
Good set! However, I think Solarbeam would be a better choice over Air Slash since Fire+Grass+Ground lets you hit anything for at least neutral damage that isn't Fire/Flying. Air Slash only gives you the upper hand against Fighting types and gives redundant coverage for Bug and Grass types while Solarbeam gets rid of pesky Water, Rock, and Ground types.
 
Chesnaught said:
I've been having tremendous success utilizing Mega Charizard Y! I haven't really experienced Mega Charizard X, so I won't comment on it at all. But here are my thoughts on Mega Charizard Y:
Ok, so I've been playing around with MixMegaZard Y, and holy crap this thing is a train of mass destructon. Here is the set I've been using:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Mild Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash / Roost
- Earthquake
I love this set because it catches nearly everybody off guard. People see Dragon Dance and assume I am a noob that is using physical Charizard Y, but that simply isn’t the case! It just seems odd, as people just naturally think I will be nuking then switching. This set is to try and keep Charizard in longer than just four turns and then switch out. This set has longevity, despite the lack of recovery if you don’t use Roost. Air Slash is put first simply because it hits Fighting-types hard, but you shouldn’t be too too worried about them. Fire Blast hits everything except for the various Dragon/Flying-types and bulky Water-types, which aren’t too common nowadays anyways. Fire/Ground get really good coverage, only being resisted by itself, other Fire/Flying types, Dragon/Flying types, Hydreigon, Gyarados, and Rock/Flying types. This isn’t that bad considering you have teammates for a reason, and besides, you can always switch out. It isn’t especially hard to boost, as things switch away in fear of it roasting them to death. Here are some calcs to show Earthquake’s worth:
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 428-504 (110.8 - 130.5%)
[Easy OHKO]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 206-244 (50.9 - 60.3%)
[Clean 2HKO]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 158-186 (39.1 - 46%)
[Ehh, don’t stay in on Mega Tyranitar]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 192-228 (62.9 - 74.7%)
[Easy 2HKO]
These are only a few, but if you need more I can show them for whatever you’d like honestly. I am still wishing you had more moves, but yeah. Dragon Dance is mandatory for 1.) Surprise, and 2.) Speed. It does have lackluster Speed, so this is very helpful. I am still using this set as the primary set:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Air Slash
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
All-out attacker is my personal favorite, as you get superb coverage that can easily allow you to clean up the opposition. Overall, I think Mega Charizard Y is shaping up to be the better form, but I have yet to test Mega Charizard X.
Click to expand...

The first set you proposed is actually the exact same i created a few pages back only with solarbeam over air slash. Fighting types are already nuked by fire blast. Also, i made rock slide an alternative over earthquake if you hate talonflame. And i agree, charY will always be better than the over hyped charX XD
 
Flare Blitz
Dragon Claw
Thunder Punch
Dragon Dance

Azumarill is a very prominent threat and unless it's taken enough residual damage, I don't see earthquake one shotting it even after +1. I'd love to give it Roost, but that 4 MSS made me reconsider.
Click to expand...

I'd rather have an answer to Heatran (which if you don't megaevolve, practically just counters Heatran), but my team has other answers to Azumarill, so that's not really an issue for me. Thunderpunch also benefits from Tough Claws, though. So the damage is about the same otherwise.
 
Aldrius said:
I'd rather have an answer to Heatran (which if you don't megaevolve, practically just counters Heatran), but my team has other answers to Azumarill, so that's not really an issue for me. Thunderpunch also benefits from Tough Claws, though. So the damage is about the same otherwise.
Click to expand...
The damage is exactly the same (75 x 4/3 = 100), and if you look at some of the earlier pages (I know there's 24, but reading the entire thread can teach you a lot) there was a decent discussion over thunder punch vs earthquake, but most people decided heatran was a bigger threat than azumarill (the only other poke that resists both STABs is carbink lol) so that's why most sets use earthquake
 
Chesnaught said:
I've been having tremendous success utilizing Mega Charizard Y! I haven't really experienced Mega Charizard X, so I won't comment on it at all. But here are my thoughts on Mega Charizard Y:
Ok, so I've been playing around with MixMegaZard Y, and holy crap this thing is a train of mass destructon. Here is the set I've been using:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Mild Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash / Roost
- Earthquake
I love this set because it catches nearly everybody off guard. People see Dragon Dance and assume I am a noob that is using physical Charizard Y, but that simply isn’t the case! It just seems odd, as people just naturally think I will be nuking then switching. This set is to try and keep Charizard in longer than just four turns and then switch out. This set has longevity, despite the lack of recovery if you don’t use Roost. Air Slash is put first simply because it hits Fighting-types hard, but you shouldn’t be too too worried about them. Fire Blast hits everything except for the various Dragon/Flying-types and bulky Water-types, which aren’t too common nowadays anyways. Fire/Ground get really good coverage, only being resisted by itself, other Fire/Flying types, Dragon/Flying types, Hydreigon, Gyarados, and Rock/Flying types. This isn’t that bad considering you have teammates for a reason, and besides, you can always switch out. It isn’t especially hard to boost, as things switch away in fear of it roasting them to death. Here are some calcs to show Earthquake’s worth:
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 428-504 (110.8 - 130.5%)
[Easy OHKO]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 206-244 (50.9 - 60.3%)
[Clean 2HKO]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 158-186 (39.1 - 46%)
[Ehh, don’t stay in on Mega Tyranitar]
+1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 192-228 (62.9 - 74.7%)
[Easy 2HKO]
These are only a few, but if you need more I can show them for whatever you’d like honestly. I am still wishing you had more moves, but yeah. Dragon Dance is mandatory for 1.) Surprise, and 2.) Speed. It does have lackluster Speed, so this is very helpful. I am still using this set as the primary set:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Air Slash
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
All-out attacker is my personal favorite, as you get superb coverage that can easily allow you to clean up the opposition. Overall, I think Mega Charizard Y is shaping up to be the better form, but I have yet to test Mega Charizard X.
Click to expand...

Great sets. However there is one major flaw I see in them, and that's Air Slash. See, with Drought, Charizard Y hits harder with a resisted Fire Blast than with a neutral attack of another type, and along the same lines, harder with a neutral Fire Blast than a 2X SE attack of another type.

For a Water typed Blissey:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey in Sun: 101-119 (15.4 - 18.2%)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 93-109 (14.2 - 16.7%)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 69-82 (10.5 - 12.5%)

If Blissey were Fighting type
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey in Sun: 202-238 (30.9 - 36.5%)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 186-218 (28.5 - 33.4%)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 69-82 (10.5 - 12.5%)

This is why I facepalm extremely hard whenever I see Air Slash as the most used move on Mega-Charizard Y in Pokebank OU. The only circumstances in which it actually outdamages Fire Blast is against Fire/Fighting types, Water/Fighting types, Water/Dragon types (Kingdra), and Fire/Dragon types (Mega Charizard-X) (and the hypothetical Fighting/Dragon type). Fire/Fighting types are frail anyways and are 2HKOed by Fire Blast. Water/Fighting types are hit much harder by SolarBeam. And the latter two are hit harder by Dragon Pulse

If you are looking for an accurate STAB option, Air Slash is STILL not the best option, because it's still outdamaged by Flame Burst and Flare Blitz on neutral hits, while Flame Charge and Fire Punch add mixed coverage, and a speed boost (in the case of Flame Charge) in addition to being accurate STAB options.

And if you want coverage, you are MUCH better off going with Focus Blast, SolarBeam, Dragon Pulse, HP Ice, or even Ancient Power, as it wrecks more common threat Talonflame and hits Dragonite, Noivern, and Salemence for SE.

So as far as I can see: DON'T USE AIR SLASH ON MEGA-CHARIZARD Y
 
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Sooo, does anybody have some calcs for ZardY regarding its Sp.Atk EVs? Is it really optimal to reach 252? 159 Base Sp. Atk + 110 base BP of Fire blast + Sun already melts a lot of things, so I figured why not put some EVs into HP since ZardY has some decent special bulk.
 
What would you guys recommend me to do, I got this 6iv shiny lonely Charmender, but it doesnt have DD nor Outrage. It does however have Belly Drum. Should I do a mixed set with Flare Blitz, Dragon Claw, EQ and special move, or should I get a Sub/Roost/SD as last move?
 
Man that nature sucks. Since you're special A isn't impacted, you might try a mixed attacker? But then that really isn't suited to belly drum.

I don't hate belly drum set on Charizard X, though. +6 Flame Charge kills a lot of stuff & gets you speed and +6 Earthquake & Dragon Claw to kill the rest.

No recovery if you want 3 attacks though. +6 FC and DC 2HkO Azumarill & defensive Heatran respectively. EQ obliterates them though. If you have sticky web support, you can drop flame charge and pick up roost.
 
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Yeah, See my edit. That nature unfortunately sucks in every scenario, though I can see why you want to stick with the shiny. :)

You could Charizard Y it and rationalize you his special is strong enough, and that you need the extra attack is to keep a strong EQ on hand for heatran & Volcarona.

I have a perfect shiny charizard as well, but his nature is naive. I use him as a mixed attacking CharX with DD, EQ, Fireblast, & Outrage.
 
^ That's what I've been running. Mixed Megazard X with Fire Blast/EQ/DClaw/DDance. I'm still trying to figure out an EV spread that lands good KOs on common physical walls like Hippowdon, though. (And admittedly Togekiss walls it)

Holy crap Megazard is SO strong though. I can't believe it took me this long to try him out; he completely wrecks teams unprepared for him. It's like Salamence on steroids with a MUCH better defensive typing.

This Smeargle from the top of the page works marvelously with him as well:
TheUltimateStorm said:
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Timid, Own Tempo, 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Def
- Spore
- Parting Shot
- Magic Coat
- Stealth Rock
Click to expand...
Magic Coat is brilliant on a Pokemon so infamous as Taunt bait.
 
Fire blast is pointless, you arent getting past even physical defensive hippowdon with it:
0 SpA Mega Charizard X Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 195-229 (46.4 - 54.5%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Consider the low accuracy and the fact that hippowdon can stall it out with slack off and you will see how much useless it is. If i predict a hippowdon switch in i'd rather just double switch to an appropriate answer. Sand+Slack Off+Earthquake means your chances of actually beating it are pretty much zero. Not even a +1 adamant flare blitz can ohko it while you will just get koed back. Flare Blitz also deals more damage to landorus-t though again, it will beat charizard anyway. Youre much better off with dragon dance, flare blitz, dragon claw, earthquake/roost.
 
I'm not sure what sort of point you're trying to make about Fire Blast when an Adamant Flare Blitz , Dragon Claw, or EQ isn't going to beat Hippowdon either. The whole match-up is suicide for Charizard X and I'd rather avoid it

Fire Blast isn't there for Hippowdon though, it's there so I'm not running two risky STABs at the same time (because I love, love Outrage on battlezone and am not ready to switch back to flareblitz just yet).
 
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myw said:
Does Fireblast hit ANYTHING harder than Flare Blitz?
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Hippowdon, Skarmory, Gliscor? Is Mega Aggron a thing? Flare Blitz can be boosted of course, but the disgusting amount of recoil it does after a Dragon Dance is something I want to avoid, especially when I'm only using the fire move to target a weakness. I'll 1HKO a Scizor or a common grass type, lose half my health, and then get revenge killed by a priority move later.

I'm not willing to lose coverage to run roost, so I feel like I'm choosing between two things: Fire Blast/Outrage vs Flare Blitz/Dragon Claw? Outrage means faeries, Flare blitz means gross recoil. Since I make excessive use of Scizor to scout and murder faeries for me, I feel the pitfalls of Outrage is something I'm better equipped to handle.
 
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SmashBrosBrawl said:
Fire blast is pointless, you arent getting past even physical defensive hippowdon with it:
0 SpA Mega Charizard X Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 195-229 (46.4 - 54.5%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Consider the low accuracy and the fact that hippowdon can stall it out with slack off and you will see how much useless it is. If i predict a hippowdon switch in i'd rather just double switch to an appropriate answer. Sand+Slack Off+Earthquake means your chances of actually beating it are pretty much zero. Not even a +1 adamant flare blitz can ohko it while you will just get koed back. Flare Blitz also deals more damage to landorus-t though again, it will beat charizard anyway. Youre much better off with dragon dance, flare blitz, dragon claw, earthquake/roost.
Click to expand...

How about Overheat instead? It drops Sp. Atk, but then Zard has physical moves to continue sweeping.
 
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