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Choice Scarf Weavile

Shen

Speed is one of the biggest changes to Diamond and Pearl, with Choice Scarf making many of the threats from last gen even more dangerous.

CSWeavile is pretty much there to stop a lot of these threats in their tracks. It may not seem to make much sense to put a scarf on what is already a very fast Pokemon, but it actually pays dividends. Despite a Jolly Weavile having 383 max speed, that usually isn't enough to take on DDTar/Mence/Dragonite, or Choice Scarf Heracross, Pokemon its often expected to Revenge Kill. That's why a scarf is often a good idea.

Weavile@Choice Scarf
Adamant
200hp/252atk/56spd
Pursuit
Ice Punch
Brick Break
Aerial Ace

This spread gives a Weavile with 372 atk and 300 spd, enough to outrun 1 DD Adamant Mence, CS Adamant Heracross and 2 DD/Rock Polish Adamant Tyranitar. It means you don't need to rely on Ice Shard to ensure that you can take out fast dragons, and so you get a better STAB move that holds up against more Pokemon, reducing the need to switch.

There's a loss of versatility from Expert Belt revenge killers, you aren't guaranteed a KO on ResTalk Hera and you'll only do 81-96% to standard Ttar, but apart from that it does well. After all, better to dent them a lot than to not hit them at all. Do you guys think the loss in power is a fair tradeoff to help handle some of the more speedy threats?

(Incidentally, kills other Weaviles dead, heh.)
 
I don't see the merit in Scarfing Weavile. He's fast enough. And with his strongest move being 75 BP, he really needs the power boost from Life Orb or Choice Band. At least other fast Scarf abusers (Gengar for example) have fast status going their way.

One little note, if you're gonna scarf Weavile, you might wanna go 304 speed (72 EVs) to overtake Adamant max speed Scarfchomp.
 
Please at least give him the option of rockin Night Slash as secondary STAB, i agree that its generally "too fast for scarf" but it could still be a surprise for some
 
Meh...It's a workable strategy, but IMO it's pretty inferior to most other variations of Weavile. Not to mention he has Ice Shard, which ALWAYS goes first against the aforementioned dragons even if they pull off 2 dragon dances, making it a much better last-ditch insurance policy. And he really does need the power boost - while he does have really high base attack, most of his moves have rather low base power.
 
This is not really a great strategy. Weavile already outspeeds most of the Pokemon used; CS Weavile will only get the jump on very few Pokemon such as other Weavile while suffering an enormous decrease in power.
 
While it's not necessarily a great plan on Weavile, since it's even faster than most "fast" pokemon (ala Starmie or Dugtrio) and its primary attacks are weaker than usual (70's base power), Scarfing even fast pokémon is not necessarily a bad idea. It lets you overtake otherwise faster pokemon (such as Starmie now outspeeding Weavile) and outspeed speed-boosters or other Scarf users. Your base Speed level is also fast enough that you need few to no EVs in Speed, meaning you can also buff your defenses a little more than usual.
 
Funny, I use Choice Scarf Weavile. It is not to be left in on other Weavile under any circumstances though, in the unlikely event they are also Scarfed.
 
Why not just max out the speed?
I assume you're using Choice Scarf to ensure the first strike. Without max speed, you can't be sure about the turn order.
 
Putting a choice scarf on something it has no business being on, like Alakazam, is a much better strategy than most people here are giving credit for. I would suggest that most users in this thread actually try it before declaring that it sucks. No, seriously. Cut your theorycraft and get some experience here.

The problem with Weavile is that its attack just isn't enough. Base 120 may be nice but its best attack has a base power of 75 (this is problematic even without a scarf). Don't miss the forest for the trees, though. This isn't a problem with putting a scarf on something fast, but more of a problem with Weavile itself. There are other fast pokemon that come to mind that have attacks with a little more power behind them, or a little more utility, that make better use of the scarf.
 
Scarfing fast things is okay, as long as the Pokemon can actually do something with it, Weavile might outspeed things, but unlike CS Garchomp it lacks on the offensive side of things.

Scarf Weavile works great against things that expect to outspeed normal Weavile (hi Aerodactyl), but when you consider Weavile being weak to Mach Punch (ohko from most things) and Bullet Punch (ohko from Metagross) it does take the idea down a notch.
 
Its true, 105bp moves after STAB aren't the greatest for a Pokemon running Scarf, I guess I primarily intended it to counter CSHera and looked at what else it could do. Incidentally though, CBgross isn't a guaranteed OHKO against Weavile with Bullet Punch, doing a minimum of 96% (lol).
 
Defender Weavile HP: 331 Move: Bullet Punch
Damage: 319 - 375
Damage: 96.37% - 113.29%



Yeah, those numbers look pretty depressing for weavile. Not that Weavile should EVER stay in against Metagross, the big problem with scarf also is the fact that being set up on is pretty easy and you don't output enough damage on a NVE hit to break a sub on most pokes.
 
Weavile needs a life orb, its not going to be taking many hits anyways and with ice shard i dont see a point for CS.
 
I wouldn't personally underestimate Weavile's defenses

Believe it or not, it can take some hits. Besides, it would need to be able to switch in to things like Shadow Balls and such. But Weavile's item it all depends on how you play and what your team needs, so whatever floats your boat.
 
Weavile can take normally effective special hits, but its typing and low defence is what makes it so weak. 25% from SR, OHKO by any Fighting attack, weakness to Stone Edge, Bug Buzz and the aforementioned Bullet Punch doesnt help either.

Its fragile. Not Butterfree fragile, but it wont survive against boosted attacks in the D/P metagame.
 
Having Alakazam have Choice Scarf is doable, and often deadly, but cannot apply to Weavile's case. Alakazam has Trick, so that Swampert/Ninjask/Yanmega/lot of other starters are crippled.

Unless CScarf Heracross, CScarf Gengar, Cscarf Starmie with HP Fighting made especially for Weavile and the like become immensely popular, Cscarf Weavile won't be too widely used.
 
IMO, pokemon that use Scarf should have a high offensive stat along with a high BP attack. For example, common scarfers like Chomp and Hera both have high attacking stats and a high BP move in Megahorn/Close Combat and Outrage respectively. Although Weavile has a high attack stat, Ice Punch is just too weak. This might be good to pick of weakened pokemon late game but just doesn't do enough damage IMO.
 
I agree with Surgo in this argument. People will say that it's pointless to make a fast pokemon faster, because what sense would that make? However, when you think about it, it's very logical, considering how Choice Scarf gives relatively slow pokemon (i.e. Garchomp, Heracross) the means of outspeeding their common counters. For example, Starmie and Garchomp are the last pokemon left on opposing teams. Neither opponent has seen the other's last pokemon. Starmie player says "Haha, you fool, your inferior battling skills have left your worthless slob of a Garchomp open to my Ice Beam." However, Garchomp player responds "No way, Jose, because my Garchomp is packing Choice Scarf, despite the fact that it can reach 333 speed." Hence, Starmie player is beaten with his own arrogance.

Weavile is a bad example of a pokemon that can effectively use Choice Scarf, due to its weak movepool. However, it's not a bad idea. I've won many of my battles with CSLucario, which can outspeed common threats such as non-CSGarchomp, Manaphy, Vaporeon, Weavile, CSCross, and so on. It's not a bad idea, and one which you all should consider.
 
I came across a cs weavile on wi fi. Needless to say, it owned my dragonite despite having two dd's. Granted, my Dragonite was adamant w/only 20 iv for speed (and a ev build designed for 31 speed... I didn't know about magic numbers back then >_>)
 
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