Cinccino

[am zane ok.]

Uhh, my first post... Maybe I should have rehearsed, or something...

Well, I can't say I'm great at competitive play, but I have reserved a spot on my team for this guy once my White Version arrives in the mail. I fell in love when I saw him, and my need has only been reinforced by stats bordering on uber compared to most other cute Pokémon (hooray, power creep!).

Anyways, I was thinking (or not thinking, you decide)...

Do You Feel Lucky?
Chirachiino @ Life Orb/Choice Band/Wide Lens
Jolly/Adamant (Depends on which Pokémon it will end up against once tiers settle)
Technician
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
-Sweep Slap
-Bullet Seed
-Encore/Thunder Wave/Knock-Off/U-Turn
-Rock Blast

Now, you're probably thinking (or speaking out loud) to yourself, "What the fuck?" I know it's unreliable, but it has the potential to have massive BP moves (if you DO indeed feel lucky).

-Sweep Slap as (unreliable) STAB. If I'm calculating this correctly (and it's likely I'm not; it's 4:45 AM at time of writing), if all five strikes successfully hit, that's... 25x5x1.5(STAB)x1.5(Tech.)=281.25 BP. I like the sound of that. (Also, my BP calculations will not include an item boost, as the item choice is up to you.)

-Meanwhile, the non-STAB Bullet Seed and Rock Blast will still have a really nice 187.5 BP at 5 hits. Now, realistically speaking, these moves would have on average something above 94 BP (probably around 105 BP), not factoring in accuracy, and based on occurrence of strikes. (And don't quote me on this, but the true value should be somewhere between the 75 BP of 2 hits and 112.5 BP of 3, biasing more toward the higher value. And I am not about to go get my TI calculator from my car to do statistics for POKéMON at this ungodly hour.)

-Anyways, I did not include Wake-Up Slap for the reason that it is not much stronger than a NVE Sweep Slap (on average), and does not destroy Substitute, as would Sweep Slap. It would have merit (yet not much) if Chirachiino ended up in NU (which I don't really see happening), where a few Steel/Rock Pokémon reside. However, generally, it's not worth the move slot that could potentially brandish a support move.

-Encore, Thunder Wave, Knock-Off, and U-Turn are acceptable depending on your team's requirements. Encore comes first, as it is almost too useful to pass up on (especially with Chirachiino's great speed stat). However, if you opt to use Choice Band, U-Turn can be used for the typical scouting utility. Thunder Wave could also benefit if you opt to equip a Wide Lens.

-Life Orb allows for flexibility, while increasing damage. Choice Band for a better increased attack; however, with paper thin defenses, maintaining a healthy HP stat is not very important, and is probably not worth the loss of flexibility (and use of a support move move, especially Encore) that Life Orb allows. Wide Lens if you feel lucky, but not THAT lucky (with accuracy).

As I stated, this is not a reliable Chirachiino. It is gimicky, and I won't deny it. What can I say, I play for fun. However, the potentially added strength that Technician can grant may score some critical KO's. You can do calculations yourself. I'm tired.

-Zane

P.S. I have not researched any of the new hold items, so I can't even consider their use. Not only that, but the true effect of many of these items are not even confirmed, yet.

 

[Ryanide]

^ The technician set with multi hit moves does indeed give it some serious hitting power. That's why I'm interested in that one item that lets multi-hit moves strike all 5 times. What was it called again?

 

[doomvendingmachine]

^ The technician set with multi hit moves does indeed give it some serious hitting power. That's why I'm interested in that one item that lets multi-hit moves strike all 5 times. What was it called again?

As far as I know there is no item like this. There is, however, an item called Grip Claw that makes all partial trapping moves (fire spin, wrap, etc) last five turns.

 

[Ryanide]

oh ok I must have been getting that confused for something else.

 

[Arc Tech]

There is an ability that lets multihit moves hit their max number of times every time though, Skill Link. I think one of the new pokemoin gets it, sweep slap, rock blast, and bullet seed (might be this one, might be one with a similar name), but you can't use both abilities at once, unfortunately.

 

[doomvendingmachine]

There is an ability that lets multihit moves hit their max number of times every time though, Skill Link. I think one of the new pokemoin gets it, sweep slap, rock blast, and bullet seed (might be this one, might be one with a similar name), but you can't use both abilities at once, unfortunately.

Lol it is this one, but as you said, you cant run both. You get to choose; reliability or huge power potential? But, unfortunately, not both.

 

[Immaterial]

EDIT: welp, nevermind

Hm, some Skill Link vs. Technician comparisons:

Hide

Skill Link Sweep Slap (5 hits): 187.5 BP
Technician Sweep Slap (5 hits): 281.25 BP (150% of Skill Link damage)
Technician Sweep Slap (4 hits): 225 BP (120% of Skill Link damage)
Technician Sweep Slap (3 hits): 168.75 BP (90% of Skill Link damage)
Technician Sweep Slap (2 hits): 112.5 BP (60% of Skill Link damage)

Skill Link Rock Blast (5 hits): 125 BP
Technician Rock Blast (5 hits): 187.5 BP (150% of Skill Link damage)
Technician Rock Blast (3 hits): 112.5 BP (90% of Skill Link damage)
Technician Rock Blast (2 hits): 75 BP (60% of Skill Link damage)

Note that multi-hit moves will hit 3 times on average; they only have a 1/8 chance to hit 4 or 5 times each (wheras hitting 2 to 3 times is a 3/8 chance). Skill Link is generally superior to Technician. Relying on a 2/8 chance to do more damage doesn't seem like a very good idea, but on the other hand, the loss at 3 hits is minimal. Getting only 2 hits is what would really hurt.

I'm pretty fond of Chillachino, as well as Skill Link coupled with lots of multi-hit moves. (Also, chinchillas are awesome)

 

[Siggu]

Actually, this is incorrect. Bullet Seed has a base power of 10 per hit, meaning that, just calculating the BP and ignoring boosts from items, it'll have 75 if all 5 attacks hit. Rock Blast does have a BP of 25, though.

Actually, it got improved to 25

 

[Immaterial]

Actually, it got improved to 25

Oh, my bad. You're right. :)

 

[Bologo]

I really like this pokemon, because despite the fact that it only has 95 base Attack, its moves all have such high base power that it can still hit like a truck.

For instance, with this moveset:

Chillachino @Life Orb
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Skill Link
Jolly

- Sweep Slap
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Blast
- U-turn

He can tear through a lot of non-steel pokemon and U-turn out of the Steel ones. Normal/Grass gives very good coverage, and Rock Blast lets him take out things like Shanderaa that might come in to try and kill him.

If you don't believe me, look at some of these calculations:

289 Atk Sweep Slap (25 BP x 5 hits) vs.

252/168 Impish Hippowdon = 35.7% - 42.9%
252/252 Bold Suicune = 34.7% - 42.1%
252/252 Bold Cresselia = 31.5% - 38.3%
252/252 Bold Lugia = 32.5% - 39.7%
While those may not look like the most impressive calculations, keep in mind that those are some of the most physically bulky pokemon in the entire game. Also, consider that with the exception of Cresselia, he has a super-effective move on each of them, allowing for a clean 2HKO. Pretty impressive coming from only base 95 Attack and a neutral nature.

Now, unfortunately, Chillachino does have a bit of a problem with stuff like Skarmory, Nattorei, and possibly stuff like Giratina too which is a bit of a pain. Thankfully, since he's faster than these things, he can U-turn out and let something else take care of them.

In conclusion, don't be fooled by that base 95 Attack. Chillachino certainly works to make the most of it by using moves with very bloated base power thanks to Skill Link. :]

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Just a short note: You got competition with Ambipom.

 

[some hero]

This is actually one of the uglier Pokemon, i know she is meant to be cute, but she isn't.Anyways, nice speed and good movepool.Plus a good ability.Low attack sucks.95 is low at this point.Not to mention her defenses suck.If her attack was 105+ it would make up for the defenses.I don't really like Normals so i don't know how this is better than Ambipom.

 

[blasphemy1]

Just a short note: You got competition with Ambipom.

Ambipom doesn't get Rock Blast, Sweep Slap, or Bullet Seed, does it?

The set Bologo posted seems to completely outclass Ambipom on the Skill Link front, I'm interested.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Ambipom doesn't get Rock Blast, Sweep Slap, or Bullet Seed, does it?

The set Bologo posted seems to completely outclass Ambipom on the Skill Link front, I'm interested.

I'm serious. Ambipom has things that Chillachino doesn't, and Chillachino doesn’t have that much exactly to show off in comparison to Ambipom either, besides Skill Link, which you get in the ambiguous Dream World.
To start off, Ambipom has access to Baton Pass and access to a fast offensive boosting move: Nasty Plot. Ambipom can simply Nasty Plot out of the blue and then if he faces a serious counter, he can pass away happily to someone else who appreciates the boost more (I.E. Espeon, Houndoom, Porygon-Z, Chandelier-guy…). All Chillachino can viably do is use Cheer Up. In addition, Ambipom also has access to Claw Sharpen, which really helps Double Hit’s accuracy and his pretty good Attack even more. Chillachino can’t use Baton Pass in the face of its counters. Ambipom does almost anything Chillachino can do. This can be a bit irrelevant, but Ambipom’s overall stats are better than this cuter critter. I think I’ll drop this one because small stat dominions are sometimes small and irrelevant.


I love this guy, but just keeping it out there: Chillachino has to find some way to blow off the competition, which would be Ambipom.
Also, how does Cheer Up Chillachino sound?

 

[blasphemy1]

I'm serious. Ambipom has things that Chillachino doesn't, and Chillachino doesn’t have that much exactly to show off in comparison to Ambipom either, besides Skill Link, which you get in the ambiguous Dream World.
To start off, Ambipom has access to Baton Pass and access to a fast offensive boosting move: Nasty Plot. Ambipom can simply Nasty Plot out of the blue and then if he faces a serious counter, he can pass away happily to someone else who appreciates the boost more (I.E. Espeon, Houndoom, Porygon-Z, Chandelier-guy…). All Chillachino can viably do is use Cheer Up. In addition, Ambipom also has access to Claw Sharpen, which really helps Double Hit’s accuracy and his pretty good Attack even more. Chillachino can’t use Baton Pass in the face of its counters. Ambipom does almost anything Chillachino can do. This can be a bit irrelevant, but Ambipom’s overall stats are better than this cuter critter. I think I’ll drop this one because small stat dominions are sometimes small and irrelevant.


I love this guy, but just keeping it out there: Chillachino has to find some way to blow off the competition, which would be Ambipom.
Also, how does Cheer Up Chillachino sound?

Cool? The problem is Skill Link is a great ability, and this guy has the moves to abuse it while Ambipom does not. Obviously, Ambipom does everything else better, but the chinchilla has a set that it performs better than anything else.

 

[Bologo]

I'm serious. Ambipom has things that Chillachino doesn't, and Chillachino doesn’t have that much exactly to show off in comparison to Ambipom either, besides Skill Link, which you get in the ambiguous Dream World.
To start off, Ambipom has access to Baton Pass and access to a fast offensive boosting move: Nasty Plot. Ambipom can simply Nasty Plot out of the blue and then if he faces a serious counter, he can pass away happily to someone else who appreciates the boost more (I.E. Espeon, Houndoom, Porygon-Z, Chandelier-guy…). All Chillachino can viably do is use Cheer Up. In addition, Ambipom also has access to Claw Sharpen, which really helps Double Hit’s accuracy and his pretty good Attack even more. Chillachino can’t use Baton Pass in the face of its counters. Ambipom does almost anything Chillachino can do. This can be a bit irrelevant, but Ambipom’s overall stats are better than this cuter critter. I think I’ll drop this one because small stat dominions are sometimes small and irrelevant.


I love this guy, but just keeping it out there: Chillachino has to find some way to blow off the competition, which would be Ambipom.
Also, how does Cheer Up Chillachino sound?

Chillachino can still U-turn away in the face of his counters, which isn't really that bad, since Ambipom is still going to have trouble actually setting up that Nasty Plot and passing it, since inevitably, a lot of Ambipom's counters would either have Choice Scarf or priority, or be able to phaze it out (if you run Taunt you're stuck with only one attacking move).

While Ambipom may give Chillachino competition in the supportive sense, Chillachino is much better offensively due to his moves that have much higher BP than Ambipom's; with only 5 less base Attack, he hits a lot harder as a result. The only thing Ambipom has that Chillachino really wishes he had is Low Kick, since Chillachino has a hard time against Steels.

 

[lumpor]

I think encore should definitely be used on all sets. Encore on fast pokés is one of the strongest moves available.
Choice between skill link and technician is hard. Guess it's basically a choice between if you want to have all 3 multi-hit attacks, or if you want 2 of them + wake-up slap.

Cheer up seems like a waste. It's basically just a howl, and chillachino is too frail to use it

 

[Wanderer]

Ambipom's best set isn't its NP pass set, it barely ever has time to set up. Slightly better defenses still don't mean much when you're nearly OHKOed by stuff like old standard Donphan Earthquake, let alone actual offensive pokes. Chillachino actually does quite a bit more damage than Ambipom. If you compare Bologo's calcs to what Ambipom does, you'll see what I mean.

Chillachino Sweep Slap calcs

289 Atk Sweep Slap (25 BP x 5 hits) vs.

252/168 Impish Hippowdon = 35.7% - 42.9%
252/252 Bold Suicune = 34.7% - 42.1%
252/252 Bold Cresselia = 31.5% - 38.3%
252/252 Bold Lugia = 32.5% - 39.7%

I'll add on some supereffective calcs to this.

Chillachino SE calcs

289 Atk Bullet Seed (250 BP) vs.

252/168 Impish Hippowdon = 46.43% - 54.76%
252/252 Bold Suicune = 46.29% - 54.70%

289 Atk Rock Blast (250 BP) vs.
252/252 Bold Lugia = 41.11% - 48.56%

Keep in mind that Return is Ambipom's strongest option against these (and most other targets), so it's completely fair to compare them this way.

Ambipom Return calcs

299 Atk Return (153 BP) vs.

252/168 Impish Hippowdon = 29.52% - 34.76%
252/252 Bold Suicune = 29.46% - 34.65%
252/252 Bold Cresselia = 25.90% - 30.63%
252/252 Bold Lugia = 25.96% - 30.77%

As advantages, Ambipom pretty much has Fake Out, Low Kick, and Taunt. Chillachino on the other hand has Encore, which is arguably better than Taunt though admittedly they serve different uses. I'm not really seeing the outclassing here.

damn it i was ninja'd :| bologo

EDIT: Was so busy doing calcs I almost forgot what I wanted to say originally. I'm glad to see one of my favourite Pokes this generation actually being quite viable, even if it ends up being in a lower tier. Having lots of moves to abuse with Skill Link was very auspicious indeed.

 

[Manaphy]

Pokemon seems really Similar to Ambipom; They have the Same Speed, Technician, and Ambipom has 5 more attack, and Ambipom has Fake Out.

He might be useable in the UU Environment. What exactly does he do that Ambipom doesn't?

 

[Green Thunder]

Pokemon seems really Similar to Ambipom; They have the Same Speed, Technician, and Ambipom has 5 more attack, and Ambipom has Fake Out.

He might be useable in the UU Environment. What exactly does he do that Ambipom doesn't?

Scroll up little ;)

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Let's assume Ambipom and Chillachino are in a free-range environment without the magical boundaries of Smogon Tiers. How would Chillachino compete with Ambipom in terms of offensive options, since there's a lot to think about such as Mismagius, Infernape, Swampert, and all the other "standards" in the tiers.

I can see the merit in the Skill-link set, but there's something in my brain telling me Technician should be a secondary ability.

Some calcs on Chillachino vs a free-range environment would be nice. I've got to see the other B/W sets.

EDIT: It's not that I'm opposed to Chillachino, but....you know. Arcanine-eat-Yooterie world here.

 

[Neonian]

Pokemon seems really Similar to Ambipom; They have the Same Speed, Technician, and Ambipom has 5 more attack, and Ambipom has Fake Out.

He might be useable in the UU Environment. What exactly does he do that Ambipom doesn't?

Clean 2hkos hippo/suicune with entry hazards.
Has access to encore.
Has 3 moves with 125 BP (one including STAB).

I could see Chirachino getting a place in OU as a revenge killer for stuff like breloom/subCM shanderra/anything behind a sub.

 

[blasphemy1]

It seems like a few people are either trying to troll or inadvertently doing so by not reading the calculations others have posted. Oh well, this guy definitely has merit and if they can't see that then more chinchilla for me ;)

 

[am zane ok.]

I love this guy, but just keeping it out there: Chillachino has to find some way to blow off the competition, which would be Ambipom.
Also, how does Cheer Up Chillachino sound?

I feel as though Chirachiino has a mild case of 4-move syndrome. With great support moves that could really help get Chirachiino in (encore) or support the team (thunder wave), or dismantle the opponent's team (U-Turn, Knock-Off), it would be difficult to find a place for Cheer Up, especially considering the lost opportunity to use such a move if Encore is not used. I mean, it's possible it could work with both only Sweep Slap and Rock Blast/Bullet Seed only, but you lose some super effective coverage that a +1 Bullet Seed/Rock Blast can't compensate for the loss of the other coverage move. However, if one opts for Cheer Up, I feel as though it MAY be possible that a +1 NVE Sweep Slap could be about as strong as a +0 coverage move. Also, I don't know what critical KOs are missed when one loses Rock Blast or Bullet Seed. However, this time, I just woke up, so I'm still not in the mood to do calculations. :D

And in my opinion, despite normal typing, technician (and now skill link, right?), and similar stats, Ambipom has a completely different purpose (Baton Pass, Scout, Lead). Not to mention it's putrid in appearance. Pass.

-Zane

P.S. Something else I really like about this Pokémon is that it's so quick to make. It has all (well, most of) its useful moves by level-up, so I don't have to invest hours in breeding. It also has a fast level up speed. This really appeases my impatience.

 

[Baldafor]

To make the math a little easier in our heads, Chillichino's Technician boosted Sweep Slap averages 112.5 damage, and Skill Link averages 125.

If breaking a sub or doing the most average damage is the most important thing to you, go with Skill Link. If you need other moves for coverage besides Normal/Grass/Rock to help your team, or want to roll the dice, go for Technician.