Pokémon Clefable

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On the topic of Cosmic Power sets, how well will that fare? I've never put much faith in this set since it can never hit very hard even with Life Orb unless you run Modest (and if you do, then you'll need to set up more Cosmic Powers to tank hits better, which may be tough with the anti-Fairy shit flying around), but it does power it up to be a major wall, and running Stored Power would clear that Greninja you dragged out that thought it could kill you. A set like:
Clefable (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Flamethrower
- Cosmic Power
- Soft-Boiled
I'm still put off by the idea since Clef just doesn't hit hard enough without the CM boost to really be worth it, but it may be more viable than CM in the new meta if you're still desperate to run her as bulky offence(ish). She's got Magic Guard and better defensive typing than Mega Latias so she could be considerable for a Stored Power abuser over Mega Latias if you have Toxic paranoia or you chose the hipster life or whatever.
 
Eh, without CM it really doesn't hit hard enough, meanwhile opponents can do a number on you with a single crit... and unlike the CM set, they have the room to fish for those crits.
 
Agreed. It sounds good enough on paper, but Clef's base stats are really quite average, setting up even 2 Cosmic Powers Mega Venusaur 2HKOs you if you took an attack beforehand which is probable. The Stored Power + Flamethrower combination is good, it hits everything Clef is weak to for OKish damage with Life Orb, and the defensive boosts let her live long enough to get an extra hit in, so it's not a total waste; but yeah, as far as it goes it's no real replacement for CM.
 
On the topic of Cosmic Power sets, how well will that fare? I've never put much faith in this set since it can never hit very hard even with Life Orb unless you run Modest (and if you do, then you'll need to set up more Cosmic Powers to tank hits better, which may be tough with the anti-Fairy shit flying around), but it does power it up to be a major wall, and running Stored Power would clear that Greninja you dragged out that thought it could kill you. A set like:
Clefable (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Flamethrower
- Cosmic Power
- Soft-Boiled
I'm still put off by the idea since Clef just doesn't hit hard enough without the CM boost to really be worth it, but it may be more viable than CM in the new meta if you're still desperate to run her as bulky offence(ish). She's got Magic Guard and better defensive typing than Mega Latias so she could be considerable for a Stored Power abuser over Mega Latias if you have Toxic paranoia or you chose the hipster life or whatever.
If you're looking for a REAL stall win with Clefable, I've got just the correct set for anyone in need of solution.

Le'staple (Clefable) (F) @ Metronome
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Def / 56 SpD / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Cosmic Power
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast


The EV spread I've given make both defense and Sp. Def equally, including its HP at its highest stealth rock #, lastly I gave it enough speed to outspeed neutral speed Base Tyranitar, which should be enough to outspeed other Clefable sets. Modest is the best nature for it do to its Sp. Atk being the highest base. As for item, metronome. Since it only has 1 STAB move worth using, metronome allows it to gradually increase up to x2 if used consecutively. It will only reset if you stop using the move, however you will keep the increase if you executed the move and flinched, were fully paralyzed, or were asleep. Usually you will not be able to fully use metronome until you've reached +6 off Cosmic Power, but when you do, it's amazing, it cleans up teams, and if you don't believe me try it out. I honestly believe this set is an upgrade to calm mind users. Also I made up this set personally, so please click that like button if you are pleased. :D

 
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:| Not the best replay, all things considered - opponent didn't play very well. And, umm, Quick Claw Blissey. Mind you, the trash talk was worth a discussion in itself.

>your team is so unecessary
says the guy who lost both the match and his dignity.

Anyway, since it's unaware, you're going to be taking chip damage. Like, that guy should have tried to Leech Seed you - even if you sent out Sableye, that would have negated your defense boosts. And because you're using Metronome, every time you switch OR HEAL, you neuter your damage output. Wouldn't recommend Metronome, not when you could use Leftovers or that Fairy plate or something. It's too situational and a decent opponent shouldn't ever let you abuse it.
 
Yeah, I have to agree. It's an interesting take on the Cosmic Power set which is by all accounts pretty shit, but it's a very gimmicky solution to the lack of power issue. It also leaves you to be whittled down by status and/or weather without Magic Guard, and with the lowered PP and uncertain recovery when facing a weather-based team, it might just be dead-weight. A Sand team would probably be the absolute bane of that set. And yes, Metronome seems good on paper, but with the frequency of healing up and removing status you break your Moonblast chain quite often, especially when facing more offensive teams. Sorry, man, but I am unconvinced.
 
On the topic of Cosmic Power sets, how well will that fare? I've never put much faith in this set since it can never hit very hard even with Life Orb unless you run Modest (and if you do, then you'll need to set up more Cosmic Powers to tank hits better, which may be tough with the anti-Fairy shit flying around), but it does power it up to be a major wall, and running Stored Power would clear that Greninja you dragged out that thought it could kill you. A set like:
Clefable (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Flamethrower
- Cosmic Power
- Soft-Boiled
I'm still put off by the idea since Clef just doesn't hit hard enough without the CM boost to really be worth it, but it may be more viable than CM in the new meta if you're still desperate to run her as bulky offence(ish). She's got Magic Guard and better defensive typing than Mega Latias so she could be considerable for a Stored Power abuser over Mega Latias if you have Toxic paranoia or you chose the hipster life or whatever.
Whenever I'm trolling the lower ladder with CP Clefable I prefer Charge Beam over Flamethrower to boost Clefable's special attack so stored power hits ridiculously hard. With this change leftovers is probably better than LO.
 
Set-up breaker set (¿?)

Clefable (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 232 HP / 168 Def / 96 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Thunderbolt

The Suspect Test on Greninja finishes tomorrow, and I think this will suppose the rise of the calm-minders like Cro-Bro, Mega-Sableye, our friend Clefable and maybe the Mega-Lats (people says it's OP but not many people play them. So If new meta is a set-up meta, you might prefer change the ability to Unaware.

The EV's are thought to resist The usual Dragon Dancers like M-Gyarados, Mega-Tyranitar and Mega-Altaria, and Calm-minders like Mega-Bro and others Clefables. Moonblast hits Mega-Sableye, and Dragon-types like Dragonite or Latias. Thunderbolt hits Mega-Slowbro and usual Gyarados. 12 EV's speed outspeed Tyranitar with no speed investment.

Ferrothorn is a good teammate for Clefable so he stops Metagross and offensive Heatran kills Scizor and Ferrothorn. Both at the same team covers Mega-Venusaur (EQ or HP Fire). Rotom-W should burn Mega-Gallade easily
 

AM

GMT-4
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Set-up breaker set (¿?)

Clefable (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 232 HP / 168 Def / 96 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Thunderbolt

The Suspect Test on Greninja finishes tomorrow, and I think this will suppose the rise of the calm-minders like Cro-Bro, Mega-Sableye, our friend Clefable and maybe the Mega-Lats (people says it's OP but not many people play them. So If new meta is a set-up meta, you might prefer change the ability to Unaware.

The EV's are thought to resist The usual Dragon Dancers like M-Gyarados, Mega-Tyranitar and Mega-Altaria, and Calm-minders like Mega-Bro and others Clefables. Moonblast hits Mega-Sableye, and Dragon-types like Dragonite or Latias. Thunderbolt hits Mega-Slowbro and usual Gyarados. 12 EV's speed outspeed Tyranitar with no speed investment.

Ferrothorn is a good teammate for Clefable so he stops Metagross and offensive Heatran kills Scizor and Ferrothorn. Both at the same team covers Mega-Venusaur (EQ or HP Fire). Rotom-W should burn Mega-Gallade easily
There's absolutely 0 reason to run Thunderbolt when Flamethrower is better coverage while Stored Power can break through stall, or even Heal Bell to take care of status. Rotom-W takes a ton from Close Combat from M-Gallade so unless you know for sure you're in the clear you really shouldn't be using that as your check to it. Besides the fact Unaware Clefable already has a good matchup with M-Gallade anyways.
 
I'm not going to lie: I see the value in CP Clefable, but I think it's very situational. It works if you need it, but most of the time it's inferior to Cm Clefable + a physical wall:

Here's the thing about Cosmic Power Clefable: why run it? This may sound like a dumb question but I feel like it's at the heart of most team building decisions. Every time you add a pokemon or change a set you should ask yourself, "why do I need this pokemon on my team; what does it bring to the table?"

The only thing see this set bringing to the table is the ability to take hits, and a status absorber/clearer. Let's look into each of these in depth:

Clear Team's Status (aka the Cleric)
This is a big role that a lot of teams (especially stall teams) want. However, this isn't Gen IV; there are tons of pokemon with access to Heal Bell and Aromatherapy. Key ones include Chansey (who boasts better unboosted bulk) and other Clefable sets that pack other benefits like SR and Wish.

Tank Hits
This interestingly is surprisingly important. Clefable with CP can tank hits. This works out. However, the ability to tank hits isn't very useful. Sure, you can stall for time for Toxic damage, but that's better served by switching between Clefable and a physical wall like M-Sableye or Slowbro. Since standard Clefable brings Wish and SR (as well as Aromatherapy if you want to run it) and Slowbro has Regenerator (and can take hits from Mega-Metagross better).

Here's what it doesn't do:
Hit Back
I'm not convinced that a +0 Clefable is hitting anything with moderate bulk or neutrally for significant damage. Maybe you can get Keldeo, Breloom, and Lucario. But anything with reasonable bulk isn't going to get hurt. If it has recovery, then you're screwed. CMers (which are probably going to be the next meta) will walk all over your attempts to hit them for damage, then sweep you on the inevitable crit.

______________________
Bottom Line
This Clefable has one advantage - it can tank hits. It can't fight back and it can't really set up cool stuff like Wish or SR (unless you're going to sacrifice a slot for those moves and switch after boosting to pass wish).

If you absolutely need 1 pokemon who can stall well, then CP Clefable is good for you. If not, I highly recommend a core of Clefable (CM or SR and/or Wish-Pass) and a physical wall (Slowbro/Skarmory/Mega-Sableye/Mandibuzz). You'll get better mileage and you team will have better synergy and more consistency (spreading key roles amongst pokemon is often safer than cramming 7 thing on one mon).
 
I'm not going to lie: I see the value in CP Clefable, but I think it's very situational. It works if you need it, but most of the time it's inferior to Cm Clefable + a physical wall:

Here's the thing about Cosmic Power Clefable: why run it? This may sound like a dumb question but I feel like it's at the heart of most team building decisions. Every time you add a pokemon or change a set you should ask yourself, "why do I need this pokemon on my team; what does it bring to the table?"

The only thing see this set bringing to the table is the ability to take hits, and a status absorber/clearer. Let's look into each of these in depth:

Clear Team's Status (aka the Cleric)
This is a big role that a lot of teams (especially stall teams) want. However, this isn't Gen IV; there are tons of pokemon with access to Heal Bell and Aromatherapy. Key ones include Chansey (who boasts better unboosted bulk) and other Clefable sets that pack other benefits like SR and Wish.

Tank Hits
This interestingly is surprisingly important. Clefable with CP can tank hits. This works out. However, the ability to tank hits isn't very useful. Sure, you can stall for time for Toxic damage, but that's better served by switching between Clefable and a physical wall like M-Sableye or Slowbro. Since standard Clefable brings Wish and SR (as well as Aromatherapy if you want to run it) and Slowbro has Regenerator (and can take hits from Mega-Metagross better).

Here's what it doesn't do:
Hit Back
I'm not convinced that a +0 Clefable is hitting anything with moderate bulk or neutrally for significant damage. Maybe you can get Keldeo, Breloom, and Lucario. But anything with reasonable bulk isn't going to get hurt. If it has recovery, then you're screwed. CMers (which are probably going to be the next meta) will walk all over your attempts to hit them for damage, then sweep you on the inevitable crit.

______________________
Bottom Line
This Clefable has one advantage - it can tank hits. It can't fight back and it can't really set up cool stuff like Wish or SR (unless you're going to sacrifice a slot for those moves and switch after boosting to pass wish).

If you absolutely need 1 pokemon who can stall well, then CP Clefable is good for you. If not, I highly recommend a core of Clefable (CM or SR and/or Wish-Pass) and a physical wall (Slowbro/Skarmory/Mega-Sableye/Mandibuzz). You'll get better mileage and you team will have better synergy and more consistency (spreading key roles amongst pokemon is often safer than cramming 7 thing on one mon).
CP clefable is often a stored power sweeper who sometimes run charge beam to boost special attack. With enough defence and special attack boosts clefable's stored power kills everything but dark types, so yes it can hit back with enough boosts. I am not saying this set is good but if you give it a set up oppurtunity it is game over.
 
CP clefable is often a stored power sweeper who sometimes run charge beam to boost special attack. With enough defence and special attack boosts clefable's stored power kills everything but dark types, so yes it can hit back with enough boosts. I am not saying this set is good but if you give it a set up oppurtunity it is game over.
With +6 in both def and sp. def Stored Power hits for 240(?) power, so yeah I guess you're right about that.

I still stand by my assertion that unless team space is critical, CM Clefable used in conjunction with a physical wall provides much more team utility.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
I think Cosmic Power Stored Power is a bad set. Even if you get a +6 Def +6 SpD your LO Stored Power is still weak af. Even without a Life Orb a moonblast from the Calm Mind set outdamages it at +3. The CP Stored Power set can't break stall either as 1. nobody let it set up to +6 and 2. even at +6 defenses with 260 BP you still hit zero against Chansey, Jirachi or Heatran.
On the other hand, the CM Stored Power set is just much more powerful and if you manage to get many boosts you are able to kill Chansey, Heatran and Unaware Clefable. That set is a much better stallbreaker (however it still loses to Jirachi, Victini, Taunttran, Taunt Gliscor and Amoonguss) and also has a easier time defeating offense as it doesn't lack the power if it doesn't have many boosts.
 

MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
Has anyone had any success with running HP Ground over Flamethrower, preferably paired with a Magnezone? Clefable can lure in even taunt Heatrans and KO or do a solid chunk of damage.

How about Stored Power? It can definitely muscle past pretty much any pokemon (including cm wars), but it takes a bit to set up.

Ditching flamethrower for a status move? Nothing that fomes into Clefable would like to take a Thunder Wave. Toxic is an option, but the steel types that would most often switch in aren't threatened by it, and Clefable would prefer the "proiority" granted against a paralyzed opponent. It's especially a nice lure against Mega Metagross.

As far as Magnezone goes, is scarf or specs better suited for this meta? Scarf can outspeed metagross and kill off weakened ones, but it is lacking in power (even ferrothorn can stall it out). Specs gives up the ability to outspeed Metagross and do ANY damage, though it fares well against everything else.
 
As far as Magnezone goes, is scarf or specs better suited for this meta? Scarf can outspeed metagross and kill off weakened ones, but it is lacking in power (even ferrothorn can stall it out). Specs gives up the ability to outspeed Metagross and do ANY damage, though it fares well against everything else.
I personally feel if you're running Scarf, you should really go for Magneton as it does have the higher speed needed to outrun things like Talonflame, while if running Specs you should go with Magnezone as it doesn't mind being too slow in exchange for power as it does have higher bulk. I dunno; I just don't see much of a reason to run Scarfzone over Scarfton aside from the lure/surprise factor.
 
So, now that greninja has gone to Ubers, does that change what EV spreads should be run? What it the current best spread for CM Clefable?
 
For Calm mind Clef be it magicguard or Unaware your still best off with bold, 252HP, 252Def 4evs where ever you want but usally SPATK. Why Bold well Since 1 calm mind fixes your SPdef anyway you may as well ensure you avoid 2hkos from things like Lando-Ts earthquake, Specs Latios Psyshock or unstabed poisen/steel moves giving you far more swtich in and set up oppurtunities then what you would get with a full special variant.

As for changing other Clef EV sets due to grens ban Im not sure. I still think the Calm 252HP. 160def, 88SPDef is the better one for utility clefs as at this point there not really much I can think of at the top of my head you would need to re EV for but someone else could clear that up
 

JaxLikesSnacks

formerly TM64HoldHands
For Calm mind Clef be it magicguard or Unaware your still best off with bold, 252HP, 252Def 4evs where ever you want but usally SPATK. Why Bold well Since 1 calm mind fixes your SPdef anyway you may as well ensure you avoid 2hkos from things like Lando-Ts earthquake, Specs Latios Psyshock or unstabed poisen/steel moves giving you far more swtich in and set up oppurtunities then what you would get with a full special variant.

As for changing other Clef EV sets due to grens ban Im not sure. I still think the Calm 252HP. 160def, 88SPDef is the better one for utility clefs as at this point there not really much I can think of at the top of my head you would need to re EV for but someone else could clear that up
Running 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD to not be 2hko'd by kyu-b can be useful too. although that's pretty similar to the spread you posted already (which by the way, doesn't have all 508 EVs)
 


Clefable (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off

So yeah Belly Drum is a forgotten move on Clefable, but it does well at luring out Heatran and you get nice coverage with Drain Punch and Knock Off. Drain Punch also has great synergy with Belly Drum as you can instantly heal up to full, and with Life Orb it does even more damage, which also means more healing and Magic Guard eliminates the recoil damage. Good partners are Talonflame and stuff that deals with Scizor and Mega Metagross like Magnezone.
 
What's a good mixed spread for utility unaware clef's? Is there a way to mix defenses and take 2 leaf storms from LO serp after rocks?
 
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