Somebody absolutely has to make a paralysis + Kings Rock Cloyster team. I just made a quickie team with it together with ParaAbuse Dragonite and stuff just got absolutely wrecked. Dragonite beats offense easily, any more defensive teams get flinched past by Cloyster (I was using the Fire Blast > TWave set on Dragonite, taking care of Ferro / Skarm / Forry / Scizor for Cloyster).
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Cloyster Discussion
- Thread starter FaceFaceFace
- Start date
That actually sounds pretty fun. I'll try that out :)
Could be my newbieness, but Breloom+ Cloyster rocks. I've had the most wins with the combination of those 2 + gengar and a sand support (wtf?) team.
When I began laddering, Cloyster also gave me a lot of problems
Bulky steels like skarmory, ferrothorn and forretress are 3HKO after its smash
which counter it pretty well, especially skarm as it has roost
but normally I would prefer to revenge kill it with scarf pokes
like terrakion, landorus (stone edge sucks though) and Latios
Lucario is the best against Cloyster, but I've never tried it before
Right now I'm using a trick room team, so I love seeing this guy in team preview,
after shell smash Gyro ball from zong OHKOs it.
Bulky steels like skarmory, ferrothorn and forretress are 3HKO after its smash
which counter it pretty well, especially skarm as it has roost
but normally I would prefer to revenge kill it with scarf pokes
like terrakion, landorus (stone edge sucks though) and Latios
Lucario is the best against Cloyster, but I've never tried it before
Right now I'm using a trick room team, so I love seeing this guy in team preview,
after shell smash Gyro ball from zong OHKOs it.
That sounds like a really cool set to counter Shell Smashers! I'll try it out sometime!
I generally don't have a Pokemon set out to specifically kill Cloyster, usually I U-Turn out with Scizor then come in to Bullet Punch with some prediction. Not the best check, but through baiting and switching it works.
The better counters of cloyster that i have used are
specially difensive jirachi (with thunder) and vaporeon when i use a rain team,
band scizor and skarmory when i use a sand team ,
heatran and cresselia (she can use thunder wave over it and after psichic , because in the sun moonlight regain 3/4 of life) when i use a sun ;
and the other that i have used in generally are quagsire , defensive rotom , bronzong(if cloyster hasn't have hydropump) ,conkeldurr , slowbro and infernape and lucario with vacum wave. I am not sure that scarf latios is a perfect revengekiller because if cloyster has ice shard he can ohko him after stealt rock or if he has life orb
specially difensive jirachi (with thunder) and vaporeon when i use a rain team,
band scizor and skarmory when i use a sand team ,
heatran and cresselia (she can use thunder wave over it and after psichic , because in the sun moonlight regain 3/4 of life) when i use a sun ;
and the other that i have used in generally are quagsire , defensive rotom , bronzong(if cloyster hasn't have hydropump) ,conkeldurr , slowbro and infernape and lucario with vacum wave. I am not sure that scarf latios is a perfect revengekiller because if cloyster has ice shard he can ohko him after stealt rock or if he has life orb
Ice Shard Cloyster is quite rare, tbh, razor shell is far more used.
Anyways
Though it seems that cloyster after getting a shell smash boost he becomes unstoppable, everytime I used him, it's real role is to soften up opposing team, to preparare the sweep of another sweeper.
As offensive sinergy I find that Scizor is the best partner, by using hydro pump I can kill of easily Skarmory (91.01 - 107.18% at +2, so yeah, VERY high chance of ohko with sr) most of the physical wall that give Scizor problems are easily delt with cloyster. paving him an easy sweep, the only real problem for the ''core'' is the rare Quagsire, who nullifies boost completely, however, you could add a dd+sdhaxorus here, he has a nice defensive sinergy with scizor by being a dragon type and laughs at unaware
Anyways
Though it seems that cloyster after getting a shell smash boost he becomes unstoppable, everytime I used him, it's real role is to soften up opposing team, to preparare the sweep of another sweeper.
As offensive sinergy I find that Scizor is the best partner, by using hydro pump I can kill of easily Skarmory (91.01 - 107.18% at +2, so yeah, VERY high chance of ohko with sr) most of the physical wall that give Scizor problems are easily delt with cloyster. paving him an easy sweep, the only real problem for the ''core'' is the rare Quagsire, who nullifies boost completely, however, you could add a dd+sdhaxorus here, he has a nice defensive sinergy with scizor by being a dragon type and laughs at unaware
standard Vaporeon takes on cloyster fine too. i'm very surprised no one has mentioned it at all. any bulky water not weak to rock and enough physical defense will do fine. Milotic, Vaporeon, Rotom-W, Slowbro, Suicune, Alomomola (needs to watch out for hydro pump), Jellicent, Poliwrath, Empoleon, Phione (lol), Tentacruel, Blastoise, even eviolite Slowpoke.
Eh, I've found that Cloyster generally beats Vaporeon after a boost. Vaporeon can't do enough back most of the time, and unless Scald scores a lucky burn it's generally a losing situation for Vaporeon's team.
I'm not sure how often it's been mentioned, but with Kings Rock, Cloyster has a freaking 41% chance to cause a flinch with Icicle Spear (or Rock Blast of course). It's not quite Jirachi levels, but given Cloyster's power after a shell smash this gives it the opportunity to beat a LOT of its ordinary checks like Skarmory, Vaporeon, Slowbro, etc. It does mean you forgo White Herb or Focus Sash, but DAMN did Kings Rock ever screw me over one game. Flinched both my checks to death and there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it.
But yeah, as dangerous as Cloyster is I typically find I cover it just through normal team building. I tend to have some powerful priority at my disposal and/or bulky, ice resistant checks to smash it with. Of course, if you DON'T have that then you're royally screwed, because this bad mofo WILL kill your entire team. In some ways, I wonder why it isn't used more considering how easy it is to sweep with it once its checks have been removed or weakened.
EDIT:
@Arctic Blast: Well generally I'd just have my Vaporeon Roar it right back out. Not the best solution, but SR damage ensures it'll have a lot worse time trying to set up the next time it tries to come in. It's usually all I need to deal with it unless I've been played into a corner already anyway.
But yeah, as dangerous as Cloyster is I typically find I cover it just through normal team building. I tend to have some powerful priority at my disposal and/or bulky, ice resistant checks to smash it with. Of course, if you DON'T have that then you're royally screwed, because this bad mofo WILL kill your entire team. In some ways, I wonder why it isn't used more considering how easy it is to sweep with it once its checks have been removed or weakened.
EDIT:
@Arctic Blast: Well generally I'd just have my Vaporeon Roar it right back out. Not the best solution, but SR damage ensures it'll have a lot worse time trying to set up the next time it tries to come in. It's usually all I need to deal with it unless I've been played into a corner already anyway.
Wow. such a fuss over cloyster :p.
All i do is switch my Jellicent in AS SOON AS cloyster is brought in or even if it starts as a lead and WoW it,things get pretty easy after that as i taunt it to avoid further boosts or just finish off with shadow ball.
This has worked every time for me except once when i missed WoW twice >.>
All i do is switch my Jellicent in AS SOON AS cloyster is brought in or even if it starts as a lead and WoW it,things get pretty easy after that as i taunt it to avoid further boosts or just finish off with shadow ball.
This has worked every time for me except once when i missed WoW twice >.>
If the lead Cloyster is what we're still discussing here, I generally have a phazer in my lead position, so I roar it out when I see it lead. Attempt setting up rocks afterwards if plausible.
Rotom leads shouldn't have a problem with Cloyster. Volt Switch into something with priority as it tries to set up, or if it doesn't set up then you're taking less damage anyhow making taking Cloyster down easier.
As far as what to switch in when set up is inevitable for Cloyster, I can't quite help you there. As I'm still learning how to handle something when it sets up successfully, which may be something you should look into.
Rotom leads shouldn't have a problem with Cloyster. Volt Switch into something with priority as it tries to set up, or if it doesn't set up then you're taking less damage anyhow making taking Cloyster down easier.
As far as what to switch in when set up is inevitable for Cloyster, I can't quite help you there. As I'm still learning how to handle something when it sets up successfully, which may be something you should look into.
Though rare, Empoleon is a hard counter to Cloyster, resisting pretty much every move Cloyster may carry and being able to OHKO with Grass Knot.
Damage calculations:
Empoleon @ Leftovers (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Grass Knot vs Cloyster @ Life Orb (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 121.9 - 144.3% (294 - 348 HP) OHKO
Cloyster @ Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Rock Blast (5) vs Empoleon @ Leftovers (252/160 EVs, Neutral Nature): 35.7 - 42.2% (Total) (133 - 157 HP) 3HKO
Cloyster @ Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Icicle Spear (5) vs Empoleon @ Leftovers (252/160 EVs, Neutral Nature): 26.6 - 31.4% (Total)(99 - 117 HP) 5HKO
Cloyster @ Life Orb (48 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Hydro Pump vs Empoleon @ Leftovers (252/92 EVs, +Nature): 34.1 - 40.3% (127 - 150 HP) 3HKO
Cloyster @ Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Shell Blade vs Empoleon @ Leftovers (252/160 EVs, Neutral Nature): 32.2 - 37.9% (120 - 141 HP) 3HKO
Even a +2 Life Orbbed critical hit won't OHKO Empoleon, only way for Cloyster to get past is to carry King's Rock and hope he flinches Empoleon to death.
Damage calculations:
Empoleon @ Leftovers (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Grass Knot vs Cloyster @ Life Orb (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 121.9 - 144.3% (294 - 348 HP) OHKO
Cloyster @ Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Rock Blast (5) vs Empoleon @ Leftovers (252/160 EVs, Neutral Nature): 35.7 - 42.2% (Total) (133 - 157 HP) 3HKO
Cloyster @ Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Icicle Spear (5) vs Empoleon @ Leftovers (252/160 EVs, Neutral Nature): 26.6 - 31.4% (Total)(99 - 117 HP) 5HKO
Cloyster @ Life Orb (48 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Hydro Pump vs Empoleon @ Leftovers (252/92 EVs, +Nature): 34.1 - 40.3% (127 - 150 HP) 3HKO
Cloyster @ Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Shell Blade vs Empoleon @ Leftovers (252/160 EVs, Neutral Nature): 32.2 - 37.9% (120 - 141 HP) 3HKO
Even a +2 Life Orbbed critical hit won't OHKO Empoleon, only way for Cloyster to get past is to carry King's Rock and hope he flinches Empoleon to death.
HP Electric 2HKO's Empoleon.
That's assuming Cloyster actually carries the move, which I don't even see being mentioned in OO, and even then Empoleon can survive it to OHKO Cloyster back with Grass Knot. Long story short, Empoleon completely walks all over Cloyster; the only hope Cloyster has is to resort to unorthodox moves like you mentioned AND get lucky with a critical hit, or use haxy items like King's Rock and get lucky with flinches and/or critical hits, which I wouldn't count on happening.