Cloyster

DDRMaster

DDRMaster

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To be honest, I didn't think I'd be making a thread for Cloyster but it has a few new tricks it can use in Black and White that give it an edge in the lower teirs.

Past Generations

In Red and Blue, Cloyster boasted the ability to run Clamp to trap and kill any Pokemon that was slower than it (which wasn't much without Paralysis support). In Gold and Silver, Cloyster finally made it into OU with the rather exclusive Rapid Spin and the even more exclusive Spikes. In Ruby and Saphire, he didn't have a teir because he wasn't in those games but when he finally came back in Fire Red and Leaf Green he was overshadowed by other Spikers and Spinners such as Skarmory, Forretress, Starmie, and Claydol. Diamond and Pearl brought a huge bane for Cloyster in the form of Stealth Rock. It's hard to spin something away when it deals 25% damage to you every time you switch in. Nevertheless, Cloyster ended up finding his niche in UU as an anti-lead.

Stats: HP 50 - Atk 95 - Def 180 - SpAtk 85 - SpDef 45 - Spe 70

Type:
WaterType.png
IceType.png


x0.25:
IceType.png

x0.5:
WaterType.png

x2:
GrassType.png
FightingType.png
ElectricType.png
RockType.png

x4: None

Cloyster's type and base stats have always been mediocre, aside from its high Defense stat. With 4 common weaknesses, only two resistances, and next to no Special Bulk, it can easily be taken out by Special attacks.

Abilities

Shell Armor: The Pokemon is prevented from being hit by critical hits.

Skill Link: Multi-hit moves always hit the maximum amount of times.

Dust Proof: The Pokemon is immune to all damage from weather.

Cloyster's main choice of Ability is going to stay the same as it was last generation. Skill Link allows Cloyster's Icicle Spear and Rock Blast to hit all 5 times, and both of them got buffed this generation, but I'll get to that later.

Movepool

Level Up

Lv1: Toxic Spikes
Lv1: Withdraw
Lv1: Supersonic
Lv1: Protect
Lv1: Aurora Beam
Lv13: Spike Cannon
Lv28: Spikes
Lv52: Icicle Drop

Egg Moves

BubbleBeam
Take Down
Barrier
Rapid Spin
Screech
Icicle Spear
Mud Shot
Rock Blast
Water Pulse
Aqua Ring
Avalanche
Twineedle

TM/HM Moves

TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM48 - Troll
TM64 - Explosion
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM79 - Ice Breath
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
HM03 - Surf
HM06 - Dive

Pre-Evolution only moves

Lv1: Tackle
Lv13: Icicle Spear
Lv20: Leer
Lv25: Clamp
Lv28: Ice Shard
Lv32: Shell Blade
Lv40: Whirlpool
Lv44: Brine
Lv49: Iron Defense
Lv52: Ice Beam
Lv56: Shell Break
Lv61: Hydro Pump

4th Gen only moves

Water Pulse (TM)
Secret Power (TM)
Endure (TM)
Captivate (TM)
Sleep Talk (TM)
Natural Gift (TM)
Icy Wind (Tutor)
Snore (Tutor)
Swift (Tutor)
Signal Beam (Tutor)

3rd Gen only moves

Double-edge (Tutor)
Mimic (Tutor)

Icicle Drop: Physical Ice PP: 10 Power: 85 / Accuracy: 90 Effect: May cause opponent to flinch.

Troll: Special Normal PP: 15 Power: 60 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: Raises Base Power the more Pokemon you have with the attack.

Ice Breath: Special Ice PP: 10 Power: 40 / Accuracy: 90 Effect: Always lands a critical hit.

Shell Blade: Physical Water PP: 10 Power: 75 / Accuracy: 95 Effect: May decrease opponent's Defense by 1 stage.

Shell Break Other Normal PP: 15 Power: --- / Accuracy: --- Effect: Raises Atk, SpAtk, and Spe by 2 stages but lowers Def and SpDef by one stage.

Noteable Moves:

  • Access to Shell Break and Explosion: Cloyster is one of the few Pokemon that learns Shell Break and it's an outstanding set up move, provided you watch out for priority moves. Cloyster can combine this amazing move with Explosion. Even though Explosion no longer cuts the opponent's Def, it's still Cloysters most powerful Attack against Bulky Waters and can do a lot of damage at +2 with a nuetral hit.
  • Access to Skill Link combined with Icicle Spear and Rock Blast: Icicle Spear and Rock Blast have both been given a buff in Gen 5. The former now has 25 Base Power per hit and the latter now has 90 Accuracy. This means that both moves will jump to 125 Base Power with Skill Link.
  • Access to Shell Blade: Cloyster finally gets a Physical Water move in the form of Shell Blade. Since it has a 50% chance to lower the opponent's Defense, 2 hits of it will be more powerful than 2 hits of Waterfall half the time.
  • Access to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Rapid Spin: Cloyster made good use of these moves in UU last gen and will continue to do so in 5th Gen.
Sets

Shell Break @ Life Orb/White Herb
EVs: 120 HP/252 Atk/4 Def/132 Spe
Nature: Adamant/Naughty
Ability: Skill Link

~Shell Break
~Icicle Spear
~Explosion/Ice Shard
~Shell Blade/Hydro Pump

(Set Comments)
Shell Break takes Cloyster decent Atk, SpAtk, and Spe and doubles them, effectively functioning an Agiligross with a +1 boost to Atk (634 compared to 405). Combined with Icicle Spear, it can deal a minimum of 80.6% to the most defensive of Skarmory and has a good chance to OHKO it with Stealth Rock up. Explosion allows Cloyster to take out nearly any Pokemon that doesn't resist it and gets nearly perfect coverage allong with your other STAB move. The reason to use Shell Blade is mainly for Accuracy purposes as a Naughty Hydro Pump actually does more than Shell Blade on this set. Hydro Pump also will generally hit Steel types harder, since most of them have lower SpDef.

You're probably wondering what the EVs are for and if this set will be destroyed by priority. The Speed EVs allow you to outrun Timid CS Heatran after a boost, who would easily be able to take you out with Earth Power. All but 4 are then dumped into HP so you can switch into SR 4 times without dying and the rest is put in Def because a -1 Cloyster isn't going to be able to take any sort of Special hit. As for surviving priority, max Atk Adamant Scizor's Bullet Punch only deals 53.9-63.5% to this Cloyster at -1, which will only ever KO after SR and two hits of Life Orb recoil. This allows you to take it out with Shell Blade/Hydro Pump and still fire off a +2 Explosion on whatever comes in. This doesn't solve all of Cloyster's problems, since Hitmontop and Breloom's Technician boosted Mach Punch will still rip right through its shell. Ice Shard helps against the latter, but the former will only be 2HKOd at best.

The Choice of Item depends on if you want to use Cloyster as a sucide bomber or if you want to keep your high Def. The power of Life Orb Icicle Spear has already been shown but Hydro Pump can OHKO Skarmory after SR without Life Orb anyway. White Herb is a useful Item as well, since it allows Cloyster to negate the Def and SpDef drops from Shell Break and allows it to take priority attacks a bit easier.

Aurinko's Shell Break set:

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Skill Link
Naive, 252 Atk, 44 Satk, 212 Speed

Rock Blast
Icicle Spear
Hydro Pump
Shell Break

With a naive nature and 212 Speed, Cloyster outspeeds jolly Scarfchomp after Shell Break which is the highest used Scarf-Speed, is suggest.
With this split and item, it gets OHKOs on max SDef Skarm, bulky Swamp, max Def Blissey and others (think these examples are 'nuff said).
It loses the OHKO on Breloom, but gains perfect type coverage and is really only killed through fighting-prios caused by the speed-stat.
Rock Blast is important 'cause it's Cloyster's only reliable way to kill bulky waters (2HKO on vappy after Shell Break, but maybe more damage-output with Icicle Spear and Hydro Pump and a kill on Mach Punch Breloom (and Scarfchomp etc.) is better than a 2HKO on something that OHKOs in return).

Anti-Lead @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
EVs: 160 HP/252 Atk/96 SpDef
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Skill Link

~Ice Shard/Rapid Spin
~Icicle Spear/Rock Blast
~Explosion/Rapid Spin
~Spikes

(Set Comments)
If you've played UU, this set is probably familiar to you, since it's almost exactly the same as the one in the analysis. I wouldn't list a set if it worked almost exactly the same as last gen so why would I post this? The answer is simple; Icicle Spear and Rock Blast can now break through Focus Sash if the second to last hit gets them down to 1 HP. For example, if Cloyster uses Icicle Spear on an Aerodactyl holding a Focus Sash, the second hit will probably activate Focus Sash and the third will KO it. This means that you may not even need to run Ice Shard to pick off Focus Sash users and can run both Rapid Spin and Explosion to clear entry hazards and stop set up sweepers comming in, respectively. Rock Blast is still a reasonable alternative to Icicle Spear and will hit Fires and Waters harder.

The EVs are the same as the one for the 4th Gen set, which allows you to survive an Alakazam's Psychic. This in turn allows you to survive Espeon's Psychic which is a good idea since its new Ability, Magic Mirror, will reflect any Spikes you try to lay right back at you.

Due the fact that 5th Gen seems more offensively based that 4th Gen and the fact that Cloyster might end up being viable in OU, Focus Sash might be neccesary to survive hits from more powerful leads.

Conclusion

Cloyster may not be the Pokemon it was when it could Clamp everything in Red and Blue or one of the best Spikers and Spinners in Gold and Silver, but these boosts to its movepool will keep Cloyster as a good Pokemon in the lower teirs.
 
Ice Shard should totally be an option over Explosion in the Shell Break set if for no other reason than the fact that it lets it molest technician breloom.
 
White herb should be an option on the Shell Break set. You get to have the stat boosts with none of the drawbacks.

Also, does it really give +2/+2/+2 ? I mean, that's obscenely good, especially with only -1/-1 as a drawback. Imagine smeargle passing +2/+2/+2 to Lucario.
 
Good molly. Shell Break is effectively Swords Dance + Nasty Plot + Agility all in one. Damn.

It could have a niche in OU as a sweeper and a set up supporter. Nice one, Cloyster.
 
Cloyster will definitely be interesting to use with shell break. Without white herb on the set, scizor will be able to take it out with BP, though I have the feeling that scizor will no be seeing much use easly on.
 
A Shell Break mixed set of Icicle Spear, Rock Blast and Hydro Pump will most likely be able to take on most weather based teams:
Ice for the grasses.
Rock for the waters, fires and ices.
Water for the grounds, steels and rocks.

Give it swimming goggles and Hydro Pump along with Rock Blast will never miss, and won't be outsped by most swift swimmers or chlorophylers (only by some 110s like Buizel and Jumpluff that invest some speed)
 
Neto-senpai said:
Give it swimming goggles and Hydro Pump along with Rock Blast will never miss, and won't be outsped by most swift swimmers or chlorophylers (only by some 110s like Buizel and Jumpluff that invest some speed)
Click to expand...
We don't know enough about the exact boosts from Swimming Goggles to jump to any of those conclusions.
 
Is it just me, or have you guys all missed out on Ice Breath? ALWAYS FUCKING CRITS! Even with pathetic base power, crits are awesome! Swimming Googles is going to be sooo broken
 
I believe the minimal accuracy boost would be like 10% as in wide lens, so 85 + 8.5 = 93.5% for Hydro Pump, and 90 + 9 = 99% for Rock Blast, which is still really good and almost perfect for Rock Blast xD

pokemon said:
Is it just me, or have you guys all missed out on Ice Breath? ALWAYS FUCKING CRITS! Even with pathetic base power, crits are awesome!
Click to expand...

Not really sure about the crit percentage, but I believe it is x2, so it would be an 80 BP Ice special move, lower than Ice beam, but ignoring boosts so it seems appealing to take on wall setuppers.
 
pokemon said:
Is it just me, or have you guys all missed out on Ice Breath? ALWAYS FUCKING CRITS! Even with pathetic base power, crits are awesome! Swimming Googles is going to be sooo broken
Click to expand...
Double damage isn't enough to make it more powerful than other moves. Ice Breath is only useful for breaking through boosts.

Neto-senpai said:
I believe the minimal accuracy boost would be like 10% as in wide lens, so 85 + 8.5 = 93.5% for Hydro Pump, and 90 + 9 = 99% for Rock Blast, which is still really good and almost perfect for Rock Blast xD
Click to expand...
That isn't the same as never missing. Not for Hydro Pump, at least.
 
If it were a 10% boost, I would definitely use Swimming Goggles. And there's a decent chance it's larger, since they wouldn't do like 5%. Every move it's using (besides Explosion) has less than 100% accuracy so it seems worth it to me.

Looks pretty solid. White herb is worth a consideration but it's debatable how much it would really increase survivability. Either way any neutral special attack will seriously maim it. A lot of physical attacks would probably OHKO or 2HKO either way. Rock Blast and Ice Shard should probably be slashed on the Shell Break set.
 
Cloyster is very easily underestimated, as it's hardly the most powerful creature (even if it is just plain cool!). It has a great ability and some interesting moves, though a special defence that weak is just asking for a OHKO in OU.

Still, may have a niche as a sweeper against certain teams, as it's certainly got options against some of the weather-users. UU is obviously it's primary preserve, but I'll be paying attention to how he fares in general testing.
 
Rayquaza_ said:
The best way to get rid of it is Vacuum Wave, therefore Lucario is the best counter, resisting both Rock Blast and Icicle Spear, though Shell Blade/Waterfall/Surf will still do tons of damage.
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Lucario can only revenge Cloyster once it has a Shell Break, since +2 Icicle Spear does 85.4-101.4% to 0hp/4def neutral Lucario, and +2 Shell Blade is a clean OHKO.

Shell Blade still does 51.2% - 60.9% even before a Shell Break.
 
I agree with having Ice Shard on the Shell Break set as it is too useful to pass up. I ran a quick damage calc and Cloyster survives a +1 boosted Outrage from Salamence with no EV investment (just) and can retaliate with +2 STAB Ice Shard. With the amount of dragons running around that's a major plus point. It can also decimate an incoming Breloom as mentioned above.

I think you could probably get by running just ice moves as your core with Ice Shard and Icicle Spear alongside Shell Break. The forth slot is for your water move of choice, Rock Blast or Explosion. Considering ice moves being your main strategy here, Nevermeltice as a hold item is definitely enticing. 20% extra damage to a +2 125 BP STAB move with no drawback is simply crackers.
 
Im gonna use the shell break set for sure but not with explosion. Mach punch pokes are really the only prioritythat can stop it. Hitmontop sint popular and i think i would use ice shard over explosion to screw over breloom and any to do damage to anything that may have been weakened before and is potentially scarfed.

Hydro Pump for sure with swimming goggles. Even an increase to 85% from 80% will make it much mroe accurate as moves with 80% accuracy seem to miss alot but those with 85% hit much more (of course its just in my head but it definitely seems so for me)
 
Rock Blast belongs on the last moveslot for the Shell Break set. Cloyster is an excellent anti-lead and spinner in Gen 4 UU. Now that Icicle Spear and Rock Blast got huge buffs to their BP, and Cloyster is the only one with access to both attacks and Skill Link, there's no reason not to abuse them.
 
Did some calcs on..

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Skill Link
Naive, 252 Atk, 44 Satk, 212 Speed

Rock Blast
Icicle Spear
Hydro Pump
Shell Break

With a naive nature and 212 Speed, Cloyster outspeeds jolly Scarfchomp after Shell Break which is the highest used Scarf-Speed, is suggest.
With this split and item, it gets OHKOs on max SDef Skarm, bulky Swamp, max Def Blissey and others (think these examples are 'nuff said).
It loses the OHKO on Breloom, but gains perfect type coverage and is really only killed through fighting-prios caused by the speed-stat.
Rock Blast is important 'cause it's Cloyster's only reliable way to kill bulky waters (2HKO on vappy after Shell Break, but maybe more damage-output with Icicle Spear and Hydro Pump and a kill on Mach Punch Breloom (and Scarfchomp etc.) is better than a 2HKO on something that OHKOs in return).
 
Rock Blast isn't a very good idea even if it's more powerful than Shell Blade. Steel types like Metagross, Bronzong, and Registell would be able to take all of its attacks (besides maybe Explosion) and hit it back. Edit: This was directed at XenoIncognito. The set Aurinko posted looks like it should work and I'll add that in.

I'll edit in White Herb and Ice Shard into the Shell Break set. White Herb will make it only take 2/3 of the damage it's taking now from Scizor's Bullet Punch and Ice Shard takes care of Breloom and I'll see if a +1 LO Ice Shard can OHKO Hitmontop. I think I would still want to run Explosion on Cloyster so it's not walled by Bulky Waters and a +2 Explosion is stronger than a CB Metagross's.

@petrie911: According to the Shell Break thread, it sharply boosts Atk, SpAtk, and Spe, even though that seems completely outrages. I'm going to assume it does until someone proves otherwise.
 
Hydro Pump in the last slot is definitely the best option, cause with a bit of EV-investement (like shown in my set) it OHKOs all the steel-types shown off - Shell Blade is not able to do this. Icicle Spear is a must-have, cause of the tons of OHKOs it does after Shell Break. The third attacking option is a bit tricky, it's a decision between the boom on bulky waters, the ability to kill breloom, scarfchomp and others (assuming you take less speed to gain more power, although it's not really necessary, shown by the calcs) or at least a 2HKO with rock blast on everything that resists the water/ice combo (naughty 252 atk rock blast gains a OHKO on offensive cune after it switched into SR!).
 
Here's some damage calcs. All of these are using the EVs and Nature on my Shell Break set.

+2 LO Ice Shard vs. Technitop: 52.0 - 61.5% 2HKO
+2 Ice Shard vs. max/min Breloom: 87.0 - 102.5% chance of OHKO min/min Breloom won't be so lucky.
+2 Ice Shard vs. min/min Garchomp: OHKO, and then some. CS Shaymin-S and other dragons will probably be OHKOd as well.
+2 LO Ice Shard vs. min/min Starmie: 40.3 - 47.2% 3HKO Gengar is certainly OHKOd though.

LO Technitop Mach Punch vs. +0 Cloyster: 51.7 - 60.9% 2HKO
CB Scizor Bullet Punch vs. +0 Cloyster: 36.2 - 42.8% 3HKO, 2HKO with SR

I've come to the conclusion that this set doesn't have a hard counter and even checks are hard to come by. Obviously, Cloyster can't run everything at once and without certain moves it's perfectly counterable, but Salamence was sort of the same way and was sent to Ubers in Gen 4. I'm not saying Cloyster is definitely going to Ubers but it can definitely cut it in OU.
 
The move doesnt seem broken to me at all acctually when you consider the pokes that can acctually learn it. This thing is just basically a swords dance extreme speed lucario in terms of sweeping. Imo not broken at all.
 
Considering the pokemon that can learn it? It's basically perfect for cloyster, being a mixed attacker, and having enough speed to more or less outspeed anything after a shell break, while at the same time having low enough speed to need the speed boost.

Ice shard feels a bit like a waste when there are so many other contenders for his moveslots (rock blast and explosion mainly).

He has many decent options for items. We don't know too much about swim goggles yet (or if they really exist), but if they do exist and it's a 10% boost to speed and accuracy, they're probably hands down the best option.

I was also thinking king's rock. If every icicle spear/rock blast hit has a chance to hit, 5 hits equal a 41% chance to cause a flinch. Don't know if king's rock works that way though.
 
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