Cloyster

is it actually confirmed that shell break is -1 def and spdef and +2 atk, spatk and speed?

veekun states it is -1 def and +1 speed and he is generally fastidious about accurate information.
 
One possible counter to the Shell Smash set comes immediately to mind: Poliwrath.
Resists Water (or even heals off it), Rock and Ice, prevents Explosion if running Damp and has a decent enough SpA to threaten with Vacuum Wave.
I've not run any damage calculations, but I'd hazard it has enough bulk to take a +2 off a Hydro Pump, Rock Blast or Icicle Spear...
Plus if it's forcing Cloyster to switch out, it could mean a free Belly Drum :)
 
Gungnir85 said:
is it actually confirmed that shell break is -1 def and spdef and +2 atk, spatk and speed?

veekun states it is -1 def and +1 speed and he is generally fastidious about accurate information.
Click to expand...

So you're saying it only lowers Def and boosts Spe and does nothing to Atk, SpAtk, and SpDef? Initially I thought it gave +1 Atk, SpAtk, and Spe and -1 Def and SpDef (which would essentially give it a +1 boost overall) but I went with the Shell Break thread that said it was +2 to the offensive stats. As far as I know, no one has actually come out and claimed to confirm it.

@howabe: Shell Break/Icicle Spear/Shell Blade (or Hydro Pump)/HP Electric should be able to work pretty well since Bulky Waters are really the only thing that can take Ice and Water. I'm not going to edit the OP anymore but you can come up with your own moveset/EV spread if you want.
 
I just confirmed in game with my Abagoora that Shell Break does indeed lower BOTH defense and special defense while raising Attack, Special Attack, and Speed. I don't know if this is a sharp raise however.. since I can't read Japanese, and I was just using the Smogon Japanese to English term post to translate.
 
Neto-senpai said:
Can you snap a picture of it? maybe we can help translate it =D
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Here you go, I can post a video on Vimeo in a bit as well, if that would help.

q9Lgz.jpg
 
Hooooly crap; Gamefreak has just catapulted a pokémon from relative obscurity to a potential top tier contender.

I am excited, who in a million years would have imagined Cloyster + Blaziken being viable competitively :nerd:
 
His development makes me hopeful for the future or torterra and daikenki. Well it could be bad for torterra but daikenki could be dngerous. the only two starters who got the shaft in the abilities department deserve this
 
Gungnir85 said:
Hooooly crap; Gamefreak has just catapulted a pokémon from relative obscurity to a potential top tier contender.

I am excited, who in a million years would have imagined Cloyster + Blaziken being viable competitively :nerd:
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Not the only one this generation to receive such an honour either!

Shell Break is definitely going to make Cloyster a contender for OU (won't say definitely going there, far too many Pokes aspiriing to that tier this gen for that), unless someone comes up with a hard counter. He's certainly going in my team.
 
Well, as someone mentioned earlier, poliwrath IS a good counter, but you'll have to more or less design it for the purpose to beat cloyster.
 
lumpor said:
Well, as someone mentioned earlier, poliwrath IS a good counter, but you'll have to more or less design it for the purpose to beat cloyster.
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If your opponent does that, then his efforts will be wasted when all your Pokemon that aren't Poliwrath take it out, assuming its Cloyster-beating build isn't the optimum one for everything else.
 
Max +2 LO Icicle spear is a 2HKO on 99.39% of times on Max/Max Poliwrath and a 45.31% on a +def nature not accounting lefties if hail/ss/SR, damn this Cloyster will be a beast XD

Though min vacuum wave from it with 0/0 -1 and -def has a minimal chance of OHKO, most likely to kill with LO recoil
 
I'm wondering, if you're going to EV cloyster to be more physically bulky, should you invest into HP or def? Def is more specialized, but Cloyster has alot of def compared to hp, so investing in hp would give a much bigger percentual than investing in def.
 
Hellyeah, GF just shot one of most beautiful things ever straight into competitive battling's stars. There's absolutely no reason to make it any bulky, cause with a dedicated spread, you're able to OHKO both physical and special walls (for example Blissey / Skarm / max HP, max Def Swamp at the same time) while outspeeding nearly the whole metagame with perfect type coverage; Cloyster is only stopped by fighting-priority (CB Scizor's Bullet Punch does only 59.8% - 70.5% after the def-drop).
 
I love Cloyster going mixed with Shell Break and all, but... are Swimming Goggles actually confirmed? Has anyone who has beaten the game gotten a hold of them? Are they obtainable with the Battle Tube(Price List)?

Because, if not, Cloyster is a lot easier to come by, as not many people will risk missing with both Defenses at -2 and (sorry) crap HP.

Edit: @Fighting Priorties owning Cloyster: Just why is it that each and every Pokemon I´m interested in such a good partner for Shanderaa(vice versa actually, but w/e)?
 
I'm not convinced that Shell Break gives +2 to all those stats. I can see it giving +1, which still makes Cloyster cool in UU, but...

Although, if it IS +2, I will be using Cloyster. I've always loved Cloyster, and that kind of power is BEGGING for it to be used.
 
NeoSeth said:
I'm not convinced that Shell Break gives +2 to all those stats. I can see it giving +1, which still makes Cloyster cool in UU, but...

Although, if it IS +2, I will be using Cloyster. I've always loved Cloyster, and that kind of power is BEGGING for it to be used.
Click to expand...
There's a screencap that was translated as giving +2 on the previous page.

I don't speak Japanese though so can't verify it.
 
Aurinko said:
Hellyeah, GF just shot one of most beautiful things ever straight into competitive battling's stars. There's absolutely no reason to make it any bulky, cause with a dedicated spread, you're able to OHKO both physical and special walls (for example Blissey / Skarm / max HP, max Def Swamp at the same time) while outspeeding nearly the whole metagame with perfect type coverage; Cloyster is only stopped by fighting-priority (CB Scizor's Bullet Punch does only 59.8% - 70.5% after the def-drop).
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Not really perfect coverage. Besides poliwrath, empoleon's a bitch too.

And even though it seems like Cloysters sweeping seems perfect on paper, we know that there's no unstoppable sweep. For those time syou do get hit, it's very nice be able to fall back on good defenses.
 
Ya, forgot about Empoleon. Poliwrath seems pretty useless when taking the rest of 5th gen into account, but yeah, you're right, it's not unstoppable. Nevertheless, im kinda in love with with the damage calcs i've done, especially factoring in the sky high speed.
 
Jesus, they gave Cloyster some steroids to abuse in Gen 5 didn't they. I personally hope that this thing makes OU again for the second time in pokemon, because he certainly has the capabilities, even with a Stealth Rock weakness.

I honestly don't even think Shell Break is the ridiculous thing on Cloyster, I think it's the extremely bloated base power of Skill Link Icicle Spear (25 BP STAB that hits 5 times is awesome), and the fact that it literally has no drawbacks; it even has 100% accuracy. Rather, it has several benefits that make it generally better than many other moves in Pokemon.

- Ice is the best attacking move in the game
- Strongest physical Ice move
- Ability to break Subs
- Ability to break heads
- 100% accuracy (as previously mentioned)
- 30 base PP, which is insane for such a strong move
- No immunities
- Breaks through berries during the middle of the move
- Breaks through Focus Sash (being tested in Research thread)
- Breaks through Sturdy

Rock Blast is an amazing move too, because although Cloyster doesn't get STAB on it, it's now just a better Stone Edge for Cloyster, since it gets 90% accuracy now, as opposed to Stone Edge's 80%. In addition, Ice/Rock on its own as a combination hits a whopping 7 types for super-effective damage, which is dangerous considering how high the BP of each move is.

With that, there's obviously some awesome ways of abusing these, such as Shell Break of course:

Cloyster @Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Skill Link
Adamant/Jolly

- Shell Break
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Shell Blade

This is the moveset I would use, because Ice/Rock/Water gets near perfect coverage, being resisted only by Poliwrath, Empoleon, and Kerudio, each of whom still take a massive wallop from Icicle Spear, while switching in, or have to specialize in order to beat Cloyster.

To see just how powerful this set is, just look at these calcs:

+2 Adamant LO Icicle Spear (25 BP STAB x 5 hits) vs.

252/252 Impish Skarmory = 80.8% - 98.8% (OHKO with Rocks)
252/252 Impish Swampert = 89.1% - 106.4%
252/252 Impish Hippowdon = 145.2% - 173.8%
252/252 Relaxed Nattorei = 81% - 95.2%
252/252 Bold Cresselia = 67.6% - 81.1%
252/252 Impish Uxie = 80.5% - 94.6%
252/252 Impish Poliwrath = 46.9% - 54.7%
252/252 Impish Giratina = 119% - 142.9%
252/252 Impish Groudon = 136.1% - 163.4%
252/252 Bold Suicune = 37.1% - 44.6% (possible 2HKO with Rocks)
252/252 Impish Deoxys-D = 80.6% - 95.4%
0/0 Shanderaa = 97.7% - 114.9%
0/0 Kerudio = 78.9% - 92.9%
0/24 Empoleon = 40.6% - 48.7% (incredible considering it 4x resists)
4/0 Kyogre = 74.6% - 87.7%

And keep in mind that these are just with Icicle Spear. A lot of pokemon that can take Icicle Spear well cannot take Rock Blast or Shell Blade very well at all. What's interesting is that even the best physical walls in the game are taken to fatal or near fatal health by a +2 LO Icicle Spear, especially the DP Ubers, since many of them are weak to Ice. Even things that normally resist Icicle Spear are getting 2HKOed by it. Therefore, it seems the best way to reliably beat this thing is by revenging it, which may not be as easy as one might think since Cloyster still has roughly the physical Defense of Rotom-A after Shell Break. Vaccum Wave, however, will easily fuck it up though since he basically has the specially defensive capabilities of Deoxys-A after a Shell Break. Thankfully, not many things have Vaccum Wave in their movesets; I suppose Infernape and Poliwrath would become popular users of it, although neither can switch into +2 LO attacks very well.

Another good moveset I was thinking about, although Cloyster is SR weak, is a Choice Band set, solely because Icicle Spear is awesome and is able to cleanly 2HKO a 252/252 Impish Skarmory with a Choice Band. It also lets Cloyster put his physical bulk to much greater use.

For reference, here is the moveset:

Cloyster @Choice Band "Choicester"
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Skill Link
Adamant
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Shell Blade
- Explosion

Basically, unlike the Shell Breaker, this moveset relies on coming in on Physical attacks and firing off Icicle Spear as much as you can. A lot of the physical walls are still 2HKOed or OHKOed by Icicle Spear (including Cresselia, who is 2HKOed after Rocks). This set seems really good, although the SR weak might be a little off-putting. However, if the team has a Rapid Spinner, Choicester seems like a good option.

Anyway, that's my rant about Cloyster. In conclusion, the new and improved Icicle Spear is one of the best things Cloyster could've hoped for, and he puts it to very good use. All I can say is, Garchomp, watch out, because Cloyster isn't just a specialized counter anymore, he's making his presence known with the big boys. xD
 
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