Is there any reason NOT to run Charm over Tickle? I suppose it might be to keep the damage output to them equal, but wouldn't you be KO'd by a strong physical attack followed by a -1 of that same attack?
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Community Create-A-Team: Forgotten Wonders (LC)
- Thread starter Heysup
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Ive been testing this team as well, and am too having troubles with Misdreavus, I had to finally resort to Aqua Jet to finish Misdreavus off.
Taillow is not doing much on this team often I find, since without proper support to remove the Rocks and Steels of Little Cup, as well as not having a means to prevent SR, Taillow has a hard time sweeping teams and only a full health Taillow can actually stop Misdreavus.
For this reason, I propose we replace Taillow with Munchlax. But, the unique thing about this Munchlax would be making it slightly mixed- i.e, running Shadow Ball. I saw that Bulky Misdreavus couldnt really handle taking a Shadow Ball after w-o-wing the Munchlax (it was 3HKOd). IIRC it was either iss or rolfkip who used the munchlax, so credit to them.
If nothing else, we could run Resttalk Lax or something along those lines, or even a Resttalk Clamperl, who Misdreavus fails to even 3HKO thanks to its gargantuan special defense stat of 30 or 32 and 23 HP, alongside a respectable 17 Def. Surf is a clean 3HKO on Missy, and Misdreavus will actually never KO you barring some hax, since every two turns one can just Rest off the damage. Ofourse this is a more shaky counter to Misdreavus, but it might be better for taking on bulky W-o-W variants which are becoming increasingly popular, and rightfully so.
Clamperl and Munchlax also help with the teams current incredible ice weak, and as of now Snover seems top run through this team without much problem outside of Wynaut.
If we choose to use Munchlax, I think the obvious scarfer to go with it would be either Scarf Gastly, who synergises well as well as giving us another way to avoid ground type moves. Maybe a Scarf Diglett would be good as well to trap problem mons we might come across, although it wouldnt really go well with the current team.
If we choose Clamperl, then i think Chinchou is a good enough partner, although we might possibly want a more defensively bulky scarfer, possibly Magnemite, as it takes all of Clamperls weaknesses.
If we really become weak to Cranidos, one might have to consider running Phanpy out of the lead position and using Counter instead of Stealth Rock to take on more bulky scarfers like Machop who Phanpy might not easily KO otherwise.
Thats all I can think of for now, but in general Taillow needs to go IMO :/
Taillow is not doing much on this team often I find, since without proper support to remove the Rocks and Steels of Little Cup, as well as not having a means to prevent SR, Taillow has a hard time sweeping teams and only a full health Taillow can actually stop Misdreavus.
For this reason, I propose we replace Taillow with Munchlax. But, the unique thing about this Munchlax would be making it slightly mixed- i.e, running Shadow Ball. I saw that Bulky Misdreavus couldnt really handle taking a Shadow Ball after w-o-wing the Munchlax (it was 3HKOd). IIRC it was either iss or rolfkip who used the munchlax, so credit to them.
If nothing else, we could run Resttalk Lax or something along those lines, or even a Resttalk Clamperl, who Misdreavus fails to even 3HKO thanks to its gargantuan special defense stat of 30 or 32 and 23 HP, alongside a respectable 17 Def. Surf is a clean 3HKO on Missy, and Misdreavus will actually never KO you barring some hax, since every two turns one can just Rest off the damage. Ofourse this is a more shaky counter to Misdreavus, but it might be better for taking on bulky W-o-W variants which are becoming increasingly popular, and rightfully so.
Clamperl and Munchlax also help with the teams current incredible ice weak, and as of now Snover seems top run through this team without much problem outside of Wynaut.
If we choose to use Munchlax, I think the obvious scarfer to go with it would be either Scarf Gastly, who synergises well as well as giving us another way to avoid ground type moves. Maybe a Scarf Diglett would be good as well to trap problem mons we might come across, although it wouldnt really go well with the current team.
If we choose Clamperl, then i think Chinchou is a good enough partner, although we might possibly want a more defensively bulky scarfer, possibly Magnemite, as it takes all of Clamperls weaknesses.
If we really become weak to Cranidos, one might have to consider running Phanpy out of the lead position and using Counter instead of Stealth Rock to take on more bulky scarfers like Machop who Phanpy might not easily KO otherwise.
Thats all I can think of for now, but in general Taillow needs to go IMO :/
I can sense some Snover problems here, has anyone encountered one using this team?
Theorymoning it looks like you can't deal with one with a Sub up.
Misdreavus/Ice/Bronzor/Scarf Cranidos weaknesses can be cured in part with Houndour's Sucker Punch providing revenge killing and its Fire STAB. Or you could have a scarfed one and outspeed Cranidos and Missy.
Theorymoning it looks like you can't deal with one with a Sub up.
Misdreavus/Ice/Bronzor/Scarf Cranidos weaknesses can be cured in part with Houndour's Sucker Punch providing revenge killing and its Fire STAB. Or you could have a scarfed one and outspeed Cranidos and Missy.
you could use my Munchlax, which does a good job luring WoW Misdreavus and killing it.
Munchlax @ Lum Berry
Thick Fat: Adamant
236 Attack, 36 Defense, 236 Sp. Defense
Return
Outrage
Curse
Brick Break
I think it's especially useful with Wynaut to take advantage of Fighting types, the only pokemon who can break through Munchlax without dieing in the process.
Munchlax @ Lum Berry
Thick Fat: Adamant
236 Attack, 36 Defense, 236 Sp. Defense
Return
Outrage
Curse
Brick Break
I think it's especially useful with Wynaut to take advantage of Fighting types, the only pokemon who can break through Munchlax without dieing in the process.
I had been supporting Munchlax in the last slot for some time, I have no objections to Munchlax being used over Taillow.
Also, that Shadow Ball Munchlax is me and iss's gimmick, it's AWESOME.
I have actually tested this Munchlax, and it is pretty good. My only issue is that after it Outrages the Ghosts, it dies.
Either way, I think Munchlax should replace Taillow.
Now that we have decided on Munchlax, we still have a big SD Snover weak, since it can OHKO Dratini and Gligar with a SD Ice Shard, OHKO Munchlax with Wood Hammer while taking heavy recoil athough, and Chinchou cant really OHKO Snover without running Signal Beam. The Snover weak atm is pretty ridiculous, and we cant let this happen with all the Snover running amok. Further more, Bulky Snover can simply put a stop to our teams sweep with a STAB Ice Shard which will KO our main sweepers with no or little previous damage.
I dont really see anything we can do apart from resorting to changing our sweepers. Unless we run some ridiculous foolproof Snover lure, it will be a thorn in our side for every game we encounter one. Also, saying that Kabuto beats snover isnt enough, for example Rock SLide misses, or the Snover switches out, or perhaps the Snover isnt the lead and is instead a SD Snover.
We need to find a way to deal with Snover, and we need to find it now.
I dont really see anything we can do apart from resorting to changing our sweepers. Unless we run some ridiculous foolproof Snover lure, it will be a thorn in our side for every game we encounter one. Also, saying that Kabuto beats snover isnt enough, for example Rock SLide misses, or the Snover switches out, or perhaps the Snover isnt the lead and is instead a SD Snover.
We need to find a way to deal with Snover, and we need to find it now.
One less drastic option I would suggest is we could run hp fire on chinchou to be able to OHKO snover. Or, if that falls under the category of "ridiculous fullproof snover lure," the first thing i would suggest would be houdour, resisting its dual STABs, OHKOing back etc. But, I feel this team really needs a ground immunity, two mons being weak to it already. So, if we really want to change one of our sweepers, I think the two best canidates would be Missy for Gligar or Houndour and friends for Dratini.
Let's just run HP Fire over HP Grass on Chinchou, that works. So the new team is:
Kabuto (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 36 HP/196 Atk/36 Def/236 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aqua Jet
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Waterfall / Surf (make sure to change the EVs to 236 SpA and 36 Atk)
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Wynaut (M) @ Oran Berry
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 76 HP/212 Def/12 Spd/132 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Safeguard / Destiny Bond / Tickle (I like this actually)
- Encore
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
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Munchlax (M) @ Oran Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 236 Atk/36 Def/236 SDef <---note: the Def EVs may be put into Special Attack.
Brave nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Return
- Shadow Ball
- Pursuit
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Chinchou (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 52 Def/224 Spd/232 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk) / Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
---
Dratini (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 28 HP/244 Atk/196 Spd/36 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Aqua Tail / Waterfall
- Outrage
- Extremespeed
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Gligar (M) @ Oran Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 236 Atk/236 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
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I still want to use a bulky RP Gligar over SD Gligar because we are still Cranidos weak, but if no one else wants to that's fine, but I still think we need a way of beating Cranidos. Phanpy isn't reliable because it's a lead.
Kabuto (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 36 HP/196 Atk/36 Def/236 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aqua Jet
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Waterfall / Surf (make sure to change the EVs to 236 SpA and 36 Atk)
---
Wynaut (M) @ Oran Berry
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 76 HP/212 Def/12 Spd/132 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Safeguard / Destiny Bond / Tickle (I like this actually)
- Encore
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
---
Munchlax (M) @ Oran Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 236 Atk/36 Def/236 SDef <---note: the Def EVs may be put into Special Attack.
Brave nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Return
- Shadow Ball
- Pursuit
---
Chinchou (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 52 Def/224 Spd/232 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk) / Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
---
Dratini (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 28 HP/244 Atk/196 Spd/36 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Aqua Tail / Waterfall
- Outrage
- Extremespeed
---
Gligar (M) @ Oran Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 236 Atk/236 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
---
I still want to use a bulky RP Gligar over SD Gligar because we are still Cranidos weak, but if no one else wants to that's fine, but I still think we need a way of beating Cranidos. Phanpy isn't reliable because it's a lead.
Jolly Cranidos Head Smash versus Wynaut:
22 Atk vs 14 Def & 27 HP (150 Base Power): 25 - 30 (92.59% - 111.11%)
Ouch! Stone Edge is a solid 2HKO iirc as well.
I'd like to introduce one of the only viable wall in LC: Clamperl
Surprising, you say. Useless without DeepSeaTooth.
Well, Clampy has an other item only usefull to it. DeepSeaScale. It doubles the little Clamp Pokemon's Sp Def and makes it a real pain to take down.
Clamperl has a 85 Def score and a great 74 Sp Atk to work with.
So here's the set:
Clamperl@DeepSeaScale
trait:Shell Armor
EVs: 236 Def/ 244 Sp Atk (Change for making it fit with the Hidden Powers)
-Surf
-Rest
-Ice Beam/Sleep Talk/Hidden Power Electric/Grass/Ground
-Ice Beam/Sleep Talk/Hidden Power Electric/Grass/Ground
Surf is for STAB and do great damage against numerous foes.
Rest is to keep Clamperl alive a little longer and making it quite a pain to take out.
The last options are up to preference:
Sleep Talk is to make Clamperl an great attacker even when sleeping and a status absorber.
Ice Beam and the Hidden Powers are for pairing with Surf to create somewhat of a type coverage.
Hidden Power Dragon is also usable to make perfect coverage with Surf.
I got inspired of this set by another player (gee I don't remember his name) but actually had the idea earlier.
Feel free to comment.
Surprising, you say. Useless without DeepSeaTooth.
Well, Clampy has an other item only usefull to it. DeepSeaScale. It doubles the little Clamp Pokemon's Sp Def and makes it a real pain to take down.
Clamperl has a 85 Def score and a great 74 Sp Atk to work with.
So here's the set:
Clamperl@DeepSeaScale
trait:Shell Armor
EVs: 236 Def/ 244 Sp Atk (Change for making it fit with the Hidden Powers)
-Surf
-Rest
-Ice Beam/Sleep Talk/Hidden Power Electric/Grass/Ground
-Ice Beam/Sleep Talk/Hidden Power Electric/Grass/Ground
Surf is for STAB and do great damage against numerous foes.
Rest is to keep Clamperl alive a little longer and making it quite a pain to take out.
The last options are up to preference:
Sleep Talk is to make Clamperl an great attacker even when sleeping and a status absorber.
Ice Beam and the Hidden Powers are for pairing with Surf to create somewhat of a type coverage.
Hidden Power Dragon is also usable to make perfect coverage with Surf.
I got inspired of this set by another player (gee I don't remember his name) but actually had the idea earlier.
Feel free to comment.
Lumin, what is that fitting over?
Also people using the team, on Munchlax, use 236 Atk/36 SpAtk/236 SpDef. SpAtk > Def on the mixed set
EDIT: I forgot this. Pursuit > Fire Punch on lax because we have wynaut. Heysup if you could edit this note into the team that would be great.
Also people using the team, on Munchlax, use 236 Atk/36 SpAtk/236 SpDef. SpAtk > Def on the mixed set
EDIT: I forgot this. Pursuit > Fire Punch on lax because we have wynaut. Heysup if you could edit this note into the team that would be great.
As we discussed on IRC, even 156 HP 76 Def Gligar is OHKOed by Adamant Head Smash with SR 100% of the time. While this means Cranidos will take heavy recoil damage, it also means you have lost one half of your sweeping duo right off the bat, which is not something you'd want.
Id say the only way to 100% deal with this is to either add Scarf Chop or Scarf Mankey (No cranidos will really use Zen Headbutt off the bat) or put Phanpy in there somewhere. Right now it seems easier to just go Scarf Fighter over Chinchou, as it too can revenge kill Snover, and Mankey with U-Turn can give our stuff chances to set up on, maybe even possiblyh catch the Bronzor on the switch, turn it into set up bait with Wynaut and sweep till victory!
So my proposed solution: Scarf Fighter over CHinchou. If cranidos kills you with ZButt, no problem, send in Wynaut and take it down!
But yes this loses us an Ice resist, but id rather have some way to deal with Cranidos than nothing, considering we dont have enough priority to take it down anyways (barring ES, which doesnt do a WHOLE lot tbh).
Id say the only way to 100% deal with this is to either add Scarf Chop or Scarf Mankey (No cranidos will really use Zen Headbutt off the bat) or put Phanpy in there somewhere. Right now it seems easier to just go Scarf Fighter over Chinchou, as it too can revenge kill Snover, and Mankey with U-Turn can give our stuff chances to set up on, maybe even possiblyh catch the Bronzor on the switch, turn it into set up bait with Wynaut and sweep till victory!
So my proposed solution: Scarf Fighter over CHinchou. If cranidos kills you with ZButt, no problem, send in Wynaut and take it down!
But yes this loses us an Ice resist, but id rather have some way to deal with Cranidos than nothing, considering we dont have enough priority to take it down anyways (barring ES, which doesnt do a WHOLE lot tbh).
That is a possibility. However, if we just wanted to revenge kill Adamant Cranidos, Chinchou does that fine.
Another option is to replace Dratini with SubVanha. It still sets up on some Water attacks, and it can easily deal with Cranidos.
Want to hear other people's opinions on this.
Another option is to replace Dratini with SubVanha. It still sets up on some Water attacks, and it can easily deal with Cranidos.
Want to hear other people's opinions on this.
I would really support SUb Vanha over Dratini. Finally we're changing our sweeping core, which definately has a problem.
Sub Vanha and GLigar also make a good combination (although the Gligar in question is usually Scarfed), taking Fighting and electric hits like a champ. Maybe this will give Gligar another chance to set up on Scarf Chinchou's TBolt.
I still think we should replace Chinchou with a Scarf Fighter, because we need something to actually switch into Cranidos, since everything on our team (EVERYTHING) is OHKOed by Head Smash. EVERYTHING.
Thats certainly a problem, because whenever Cranidos comes in, you'll lose something.
Which is why we should run Scarf Machop to help with this problem (or Sub even I dont care).
Sub Vanha and GLigar also make a good combination (although the Gligar in question is usually Scarfed), taking Fighting and electric hits like a champ. Maybe this will give Gligar another chance to set up on Scarf Chinchou's TBolt.
I still think we should replace Chinchou with a Scarf Fighter, because we need something to actually switch into Cranidos, since everything on our team (EVERYTHING) is OHKOed by Head Smash. EVERYTHING.
Thats certainly a problem, because whenever Cranidos comes in, you'll lose something.
Which is why we should run Scarf Machop to help with this problem (or Sub even I dont care).
If we lose Chinchou we will definitely be overloading Munchlax with Ice / Special Attacks, and it will likely cost us the match a ton more often than losing a mon to Cranidos would be. Especially since Jolly ones can't beat Gligar without KOing themselves, and Cranidos can't actually "sweep" our team. Most teams don't have a good switch-in, they can just stop its sweep, which we can.
Does anyone else favor SubVana over Dratini?
Does anyone else favor SubVana over Dratini?
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