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Competitor and Arceus

Please don't use the term "disconnecter", because it really makes me sound like something I'm not.
dis·con·nect
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/ˌdɪs
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kəˈnɛkt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dis-kuh-nekt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object) 1.to sever or interrupt the connection of or between; detach: They disconnected the telephone. We were disconnected.
—Related forms
dis·con·nect·er, noun

The reason you are such an active force in this thread is because you had disconnected from a match, which is why the thread exists in the first place. Don't tell me what adjectives I can and can't use just because you want to spend 5 pages arguing semantics with people when you fit the diction-fucking-ary definition of the descriptor I applied to you.

Also, way to strawman my actual argument. Why is it so difficult to just ask people not to use Arceus and, if they are, to just disconnect afterwards? If you had used your words instead of doing something almost universally considered a faux pas in online gaming, there wouldn't be 5 pages in this thread because it wouldn't exist, you wouldn't have to battle Arceus, and we could move on with our lives instead of arguing what someone means by "intended."
 
Are you sure you want to challenge me on semantics?

"Disconnecter" has such a negative connotation.


Main Entry:
con·no·ta·tion Listen to the pronunciation of connotation
Pronunciation:
\ˌkä-nə-ˈtā-shən\
Function:
noun
Date:
1532

1 a: the suggesting of a meaning by a word apart from the thing it explicitly names or describes b: something suggested by a word or thing : implication <the connotations of comfort that surrounded that old chair>




I just explained why the term you used is colloquially incorrect. And it appears as though my actions worked out just fine, as Shoddy now has what amounts to an Arceus clause built-in.
 
Are you sure you want to challenge me on semantics?




Main Entry:
con·no·ta·tion Listen to the pronunciation of connotation
Pronunciation:
\ˌkä-nə-ˈtā-shən\
Function:
noun
Date:
1532

1 a: the suggesting of a meaning by a word apart from the thing it explicitly names or describes b: something suggested by a word or thing : implication <the connotations of comfort that surrounded that old chair>




I just explained why the term you used is colloquially incorrect. And it appears as though my actions worked out just fine, as Shoddy now has what amounts to an Arceus clause built-in.
This thread isn't about semantics. Way to dodge the actual points of discussion again.
 
I would like to further emphasize that the actions taken by Shoddy Battle are perfectly consistent with the precedents set in the past.

On the RSBOTS, before the rest of the 386 pokemon were made available by gamefreak, only the first 200 were considered valid for standard play.

To play with 386, it was the generally accepted rule that you would declare "386" before a battle. Now, Shoddy is implementing it's declaration of using Arceus by implementing an "extended clause."

This is perfectly acceptable, and should cause no further debate, as it garners to both sides while simultaneously adhering to precedent.
 
So for 1 or 2 people who dont believe that Arceus should exist we create a clause especially for them?

The people who argue against the usage of Blissey far outnumber the Arceus haters yet theres no Blissey Clause. Im not a Blissey hater myself but you should see the point im making.
 
So for 1 or 2 people who dont believe that Arceus should exist we create a clause especially for them?

The people who argue against the usage of Blissey far outnumber the Arceus haters yet theres no Blissey Clause. Im not a Blissey hater myself but you should see the point im making.
That's because the people who want to ban Blissey have no reason other than the fact that they can't beat her. Arceus is actually debatable.
 
Is there more than one definition? If Nintendo created it with the intention of releasing it, it was "meant to be obtained" and "intended" to be obtained, and thus should be allowed on simulators. Of course this is impossible to prove until they actually release it, but it's a safe bet to say that if they referenced it several times in-game, bothered to create sprites, a movepool, ability, and stats, it was their intention to release it.

Besides, (and this is a big point), what's the harm in using it? No one is being placed at a disadvantage here.

No, there's one definition, but I defy anyone to tell me what Nintendo does and does not intend for us to do with the games they make. You hit the only read nail in the wooden board that is this "debate" on the head—it is impossible to prove this until they release it (if they do), so the only thing we can do and should do, as far as simulating competitive play as accurate as possible, is wait.

And yes, I realize there's no harm in using it. The real issue is ensuring both players are playing on a level playing field and are on the same page before the battle. That is why Obi made this thread, to clear up that point—and the clause has been implemented in Shoddy to see to that. Before, it was more difficult to be on the same page with every single opponent you played on Shoddy, and now it's much easier. I don't feel like signing on to verify if there's a DT clause and a OHKO clause on Shoddy like there is on NetBattle, but it's the same idea.


Well, my personal definition is: Pokemon, items and features currently available through normal usage of the game, ie, things that can be assumed to be a deliberately included part of the game. Things are are only obtainable through glitches or 3rd party devices are currently unintended until there is an official release of them, even if they are common practice and considered acceptable by the majority of the community.

Of course, there are some things that may not be intended and are accessible through the course of normal gameplay but there has to be some assumptions made unless Game Freak feels the urge to make a list of every last thing that they intended to have available in D/P.

You see how, while trying to define "intention" in the scope of this argument, you are forced to try to define "normal", and in that definition, you use the word "assume"? That's why I wished you guys luck, because it is pretty much impossible to say without a shadow of a doubt to say what Nintendo intends to do.

You then go on to state "common practice", so please consider this question: Do you think that Game Freak intended for us to save before encountering every legendary and uber, and turn the game off if what we may catch isn't statistically (or even aesthetically) to our liking?


And Kijin, you're going to have to chill out in this thread, especially since you've stated more than once that it's a "circlejerk" in which nobody has any business still posting.
 
And Kijin, you're going to have to chill out in this thread, especially since you've stated more than once that it's a "circlejerk" in which nobody has any business still posting.
The past page and a half was spent reenacting Bill Clinton's trial over lying under oath, far past the intention of Blaziken_57's OP, arguing semantics. Unless under all that "Is it ok to DC on someone for using X Pokemon on Shoddy?" he was actually trying to stir up 5 pages of semantic debate.

Aside from saying I need to chill because I used the word circle jerk (which I think, [oh god] you missed my definition of the word) to describe it, I raise one of the original points in the thread that specifically applies to Obi, but also applies to everyone who cannot tolerate battling ANY specific Pokemon (be it Blissey, Weedle, or Arceus), why it's so hard to just ask a question. To this post, it has not been addressed, instead shunted in favor of perpetuating the circle jerk portion of this thread, asking people to veer off-topic, strawmanning one another, and "debate" the definition of words and what other people intend to do with their versions of their games.
 
I raise one of the original points in the thread that specifically applies to Obi, but also applies to everyone who cannot tolerate battling ANY specific Pokemon (be it Blissey, Weedle, or Arceus), why it's so hard to just ask a question.

It isn't hard. But if you believe it's a logical inconsistency in the application of the rules (not that I do--I won't claim expertise on the matter) to allow Arceus (or Blissey or Weedle), telling other people beforehand that you won't battle is not likely to be as effective in raising the issue as behaving with the assumption that the rules should be consistent (treating Arceus, Blissey, or Weedle as the end of the match for you as soon as it shows up). It forces people to think about it and even to discuss it.
 
The past page and a half was spent reenacting Bill Clinton's trial over lying under oath, far past the intention of Blaziken_57's OP, arguing semantics. Unless under all that "Is it ok to DC on someone for using X Pokemon on Shoddy?" he was actually trying to stir up 5 pages of semantic debate.

that's nice. that doesn't mean you get to intentionally disrespect the thread and those who continue to post in it. you're either insulting other users or junior modding, both of which are infractionable offenses

Aside from saying I need to chill because I used the word circle jerk (which I think, [oh god] you missed my definition of the word) to describe it, I raise one of the original points in the thread that specifically applies to Obi, but also applies to everyone who cannot tolerate battling ANY specific Pokemon (be it Blissey, Weedle, or Arceus), why it's so hard to just ask a question. To this post, it has not been addressed, instead shunted in favor of perpetuating the circle jerk portion of this thread, asking people to veer off-topic, strawmanning one another, and "debate" the definition of words and what other people intend to do with their versions of their games.
first, it isn't just your use of the word "circlejerk" that has prompted me to tell you to chill, it is your overall tone for like the last three pages. (and for fair warning, asking "like what" would not be your best course of action.) second, regardless of that i dont really care how you define circlejerk, it's still either junior modding or insulting other members
 
Aside from saying I need to chill because I used the word circle jerk (which I think, [oh god] you missed my definition of the word) to describe it, I raise one of the original points in the thread that specifically applies to Obi, but also applies to everyone who cannot tolerate battling ANY specific Pokemon (be it Blissey, Weedle, or Arceus), why it's so hard to just ask a question. To this post, it has not been addressed, instead shunted in favor of perpetuating the circle jerk portion of this thread, asking people to veer off-topic, strawmanning one another, and "debate" the definition of words and what other people intend to do with their versions of their games.

If you feel the need to use certain specific Pokemon, why is it so hard to just ask whether it's acceptable?

And I'm not the one who started the "quote the dictionary to prove a point" argument, which is pretty much semantics as far as I can tell.
 
at some point in the future arceus will be available. this is only a temporary problem. the solution depends on whether you feel like reinventing the entire uber metagame when arceus arrives.
 
You don't think it would be a lot of fun to play without Arceus in ubers and then go crazy with him when he's actually released?
This is of course only for people that care about the fact that he's illegal to obtain.
 
Okay, I see Shoddy got updated, and I have something to say.

The reason I am opposed to 'Extended Game Clause' is that you are at an advantage. If you challenge someone under that clause, they basically know you have Arceus. When Arceus is allowed under normal clauses, no one is at the disadvantage.
 
The reason I am opposed to 'Extended Game Clause' is that you are at an advantage. If you challenge someone under that clause, they basically know you have Arceus. When Arceus is allowed under normal clauses, no one is at the disadvantage.
You can challenge somebody under the clause and not use Arceus, too. It sort of goes both ways.

It's not a big deal anyway, because Arceus itself is stupidly unpredictable. It's not like declaring beforehand that you have, say, an Electivire, which is only capable of doing one thing. Arceus can do bloody anything.
 
You can challenge somebody under the clause and not use Arceus, too. It sort of goes both ways.

It's not a big deal anyway, because Arceus itself is stupidly unpredictable. It's not like declaring beforehand that you have, say, an Electivire, which is only capable of doing one thing. Arceus can do bloody anything.
Arceus will, in practical play, do one of two things: Swords Dance or Calm Mind. It's a question of "Will it mind Giratina's Wisp or not?", and once you see what it transforms into, you basically know what it is.
 
You can challenge somebody under the clause and not use Arceus, too. It sort of goes both ways.

It's not a big deal anyway, because Arceus itself is stupidly unpredictable. It's not like declaring beforehand that you have, say, an Electivire, which is only capable of doing one thing. Arceus can do bloody anything.

the same thing can be said of mew. the same thing can actually be said of alot of pokes, infernape for example, almost nobody is 100% predictable.

I just find confusion in why arceus has a clause at all, the only thing that any of this thread has told me is this: Arceus is under clause because Obi wants him to be. Which, again, confuses me because Obi himself said that arceus is not a big deal (remember how he won 7 out of 8 battles against it?) So now, the only reason i can think Obi would want this is because he thinks that he deserves special treatment, and to me, that sounds very arrogant, and almost childish that Obi would think that his opinion is better than literally everyone else's.

Basically what i think is...when it comes down to it, Arceus is nothing more than just a pokemon, a part of this game reguardless of whether it was "intended to be released or not", reguardless of anything, he's in the game, he does exist, if you get the azure flute you will see him sitting right there, and he is not at all game-breaking. So why shun him? Why limit the already small uber tier even more? Why? I really dont understand your feelings at all, obi.
 
Arceus is under clause because Obi wants him to be.
How how how did you miss the other 5 pages in this thread?
It's a logical argument using these premises:

P(x): x is only obtainable with an AR.
Q(x): x is allowed in competitive play.

~P(x) -> ~Q(x)
~P(x)

Therefore ~Q(x).


What other precedent have we set that we allow illegal pokemon in play? One counterexample could easily debunk this train of thought if there were one. We don't use illegal pokemon competitively.
 
Obviously you're the one who doesnt know what he's talking about. When people hack the item to get a pokemon, its referred to as semi-legit. Semi-legit =/= illegal. And you cannot make an arguement as to why he is illegal, when the only legitimate arguement that obi has made for his illegality are stupid things like thunderpunch+poison heal breloom. that, is illegal. there is no semi-legit for something like that, its flat-out illegal. Even his "hypnoplot crobat" arguement, surely that might be available in future generations, but it isnt now. But thats all still illegal this generation. Arceus is not illegal, he is semi-legit. Which is where my confusion arises, because any semi-legit poke hasnt changed the game in any way, shape, or form, rather its saved time for breeders or battlers, thats about it. And i've never seen obi, in any of his arguements, say anything against semi-legits. Hence, my confusion.
 
There is no such thing as semi-legit.
Did you go to a Nintendo event and get that item? If not, it's illegal. Better yet, has there ever been a Nintendo event so that we can simulate such a thing?
Anything that spawns from illegality is likewise illegal.

What would you call the offspring of hacked parents? By hacking something to catch pokemon, it's semi-legit. Do you see that in trading threads?

Arceus is ILLEGAL. He is not semi-legit in the same sense that Hypnoplot Crobat is not semi-legit.
 
There is no such thing as semi-legit.
Did you go to a Nintendo event and get that item? If not, it's illegal. Better yet, has there ever been a Nintendo event so that we can simulate such a thing?
Anything that spawns from illegality is likewise illegal.

What would you call the offspring of hacked parents? By hacking something to catch pokemon, it's semi-legit. Do you see that in trading threads?

Arceus is ILLEGAL. He is not semi-legit in the same sense that Hypnoplot Crobat is not semi-legit.

Do people that pokesav for battling purposes only do any real breeding? Not at all, yet it is semi-legit. And it is allowed in competitive play due to the fact that its the same pokemon.

Having no event of arceus yet does not change arceus as a pokemon. He is still the exact same uber pokemon that he always was, and always will be for this entire generation.

And what in the hell are you bringing up trading threads for?? Of course trading threads absolutely should be 100% legit, but we're talking about shoddy battle here, and competitive play, so what are you talking about? Semi-legit is completely allowed in competitive play, last i checked, and only a fraction of the community even knows if a normal poke is semi-legit when they battle it, and only a fraction of all of those people even care.

You still have not answered why obi is against one pokemon in all of the semi-legit realm.
 
You still have not answered why obi is against one pokemon in all of the semi-legit realm.
Actually yeah I did. This one is easy: All the other semi-legit can be obtained in a cartridge without an AR.
If you're not going to argue with Obi's definition of impossible (that would be only with AR), then don't waste your time side-tracking.
 
Actually yeah I did. This one is easy: All the other semi-legit can be obtained in a cartridge without an AR.
If you're not going to argue with Obi's definition of impossible (that would be only with AR), then don't waste your time side-tracking.

And an item called the azure flute exists where arceus can be obtained in said catridge without said AR. There is no evidence going either way that arceus will be available without AR in the future, that means there is no evidence going my way, and none to back you up either. So what are we left with, provided no evidence either way? We're left with arceus, same as he always was, waiting for someone to hack an azure flute and go catch him. And lastly, nobody, not even obi, is always right. Impossible at the moment or not, he is still arceus, he is not god. (dont you dare make a pun-arguement on that)
 
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