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Conkeldurr

Colonel M said:
Way to strawman the question. Look at my last post, that is what he meant.
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Read my edit dude. I made a major oversight. I somehow thought he was asking if Roobushin could OHKO with a +1 Mach Punch.

Anyway, the whole situation is irrelevant if Roobushin is already at +1 when Garchomp comes in; it likely won't be able to SD and Outrage.

lol 2HKOing ScarfChomp as it tries to revenge is funny. I guess I was wrong about Mach Punch's utility. That's impressive.

SubPunch still owns, though.
 
Well that makes me happy that he can more than one set effectively. It means more guessing on the opponent's part.　Am I carrying Guts or Iron Fist? Am I a Subpuncher or a Bulk Up user? This makes him slightly less predictable, something else in his favor.
 
Truthfully, I am right 99% of the time, but that little Garchomp scenario I made up kinda sorta made me see the use of Drain Punch. This thing is physically tanky as hell. Let me note that it wouldn't work if you invested in SpDef instead of maxing HP and Attack though.

For me, knocking out basically any non-Ghost is too good to pass up. I use Guts on my SubPunch Roobushin with Flame Orb. Do you have any idea what a Guts Boosted Focus Punch does?

Hiroshima. That's what.
 
Ah I can see it now. Switch into something you scare. Sub and get burned the same turn. Kill any non-Ghost.I like it.I just like tanking more. They're both very good trade offs.
 
Jaroda said:
Ah I can see it now. Switch into something you scare. Sub and get burned the same turn. Kill any non-Ghost.I like it.I just like tanking more. They're both very good trade offs.
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Something like that.

Another benefit of Sub is that you don't have to run any SpDef. :D

The only real "problem" is that it doesn't OHKO that motherfucker Wobbufett.
 
Jaroda said:
Very few things do.
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Have you ever run into that mofo?

I'm not sure if it's banned on online simulators, but it should be banned everywhere. Roobushin can beat him with Focus Punch if you predict properly and sub on a switch, but it's nerve wracking. If you sub, he'll Encore. If you Focus Punch he'll Counter, and you won't survive that. Don't ever fall into the Custap Destiny Bond trap: if there's no Leftovers recovery it's definitely holding a Custap. I can't imagine how a Bulk Up Drain Punch variant deals with it.

I know Wobbuffet is uncounterable, but the amount of punishment a Wobbuffet can take is ridiculous.
 
Gah777 said:
So what's the best EV spread for the bulk up set?
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That depends on preference really.

Maxing HP and Attack allows you to do crazy stuff like tank a Jolly LO +2 Outrage from Garchomp after a Bulk Up and practically 2HKO in return. Very few physical attacks can take down Roobushin with Max HP after a Bulk Up.

Maxing HP and SpDef makes it much more defensive and hard to take down by Special Attacks, but sacrifices a quite a bit of power, and Roobushin still takes hard hits from powerful special attacks, even with his SpDef maxed.

Some people just Max Attack, put enough SpDef to survive super powerful unboosted special attacks like Shandera's Overheat, and throw the rest into HP.

I don't know if there really is an optimal spread.
 
I changed my EVs a bit.

I'm running 68 HP/224 At/ 216 SpD

I'm sacrificing a little attack to hit the magic Leftovers number and still have enough SpD to survive Shandera Overheat.
 
Charlemagne said:
With 40(60 with Stab) Base Power, the only Pokemon it's OHKOing is Weavile. Max Attack Roobushin's +1 Mach Punch can't even OHKO Deoxys Attack Forme after SR. :\

Please don't overhype Mach Punch. It's great typed STAB priority, but it is honestly one of the less useful the priority moves (it's no Ice Shard). Hitting Pokemon like Doryuzu, Sazando, Tyranitar and Terakion are it's main draws. It doesn't really help Roobushin to abuse Bulk Up, either.

Drain Punch is utterly inferior to Machamp's Dynamic Punch, and until you boost it significantly, it does little damage. Roobushin is too slow to reliably heal with it outside of TR. Roobushin will get Whirlwinded by Skarmory 100% of the time. Machamp gets a WW about 50%.

I've given plenty of reasons why Machamp outperforms it as Bulk Up user. You ignore them all, and what you present in return is "Mach Punch is STAB Priority", "Drain Punch heals Roobushin", and a spiteful remark about Machamp. Srsly?
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Ok what. Why does it need to OHKO Deoxys-S? It checks you, just switch out.

The main draw to Mach Punch is being PRIORITY. AKA, you go first. I just told you why that was useful, and in case you missed it, I will say it again: Roopushin does not have to take any more damage if it hits a dying Pokemon. Either that Pokemon is dying because Roopushin just hit him or something else did. Regardless, you go first, it has great coverage, and you get STAB on it. This is part of what makes him a phenomenal Bulk Up user.

Bulk Up Machamp has plenty of other things to worry about. While +1 Dynamic Punch is good, he has no good priority to work with, so I can just revenge him with a strong special attacker. Also, he can't get greedy, since he can't restore his health with Drain Punch, so he'll probably be forced to attack long before Roopushin is. Don't forget about Status either, since once you get hit by WoW or the 30% chance on Boiling Water, your chances of sweeping are ruined.

Basically, Champ is good for one or two Pokemon, while Roopushin has what it takes to go through teams.

Do you have any idea what a Guts Boosted Focus Punch does?

Hiroshima. That's what.
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ok this was pretty funny and I lol'd, but you need to start checking your facts and stuff, you're averaging two wrong statements per post now.
 
I wish we could stop comparing Machamp and Roobushin, but if you insist...

I said Deoxys-A. not S. It has 20 base Defense. Mach Punch sucks against anything that is resistant or immune to it.

Machamp doesn't need Drain Punch, Mach Punch or Guts. ChestoResting heals all damage and status, giving it more survivability. DynamicPunch does a huge amount of damage, forces switches, and gives you more Bulk Ups.

Once again, if Roobushin goes through your whole team, either your team was fail, or you fail at battling. There are tons of checks to Bulk Up Roobushin, and if you build a team without any of them, you fail.

Do you doubt the power of Max Attack Guts boosted Roobushin's Focus Punch?
 
I wish we could stop comparing Machamp and Roobushin, but if you insist...
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Machamp: Slow, bulky Fighting type with huge offense and decent defenses
Roopushin: Slow, bulky Fighting type with huge offense and decent defenses

And IIRC, you were already somewhere in the middle of a Machamp/Roopushin comparison when I quoted you.

I said Deoxys-A. not S. It has 20 base Defense. Mach Punch sucks against anything that is resistant or immune to it.
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lol typo

use your other moves

Machamp doesn't need Drain Punch, Mach Punch or Guts. ChestoResting heals all damage and status, giving it more survivability. DynamicPunch does a huge amount of damage, forces switches, and gives you more Bulk Ups.
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Only once. Drain Punch does damage, allows you to keep Leftovers, and can take advantage of status. Once it's been boosted adequately, you can steal HP like nobody's business. Roopushin is still a better Bulk Up user than Machamp

Once again, if Roobushin goes through your whole team, either your team was fail, or you fail at battling. There are tons of checks to Bulk Up Roobushin, and if you build a team without any of them, you fail.
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The "plenty of things" you speak of (Specs users, Psychic types) usually only exist in quantities of one per team. If they're weakened or dead, they can't stop Roopushin.

Either way, I'm not arguing he's broken, but the number of teams he can dismantle mid-late game is astonishing, and it's not a plight exclusive to poorly made teams. It's like saying if you let Salamence get a kill, you suck at the game. It's not necessarily the player's fault, just the fact that Roopushin is so damn good, lol.

Do you doubt the power of Max Attack Guts boosted Roobushin's Focus Punch?
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no i meant even if i laugh at your joke we are still bitter enemies
 
No Guard and Guts make them operate very differently. That quote was from several pages ago.

You mean, use Payback and get OHKOed by Psycho Boost before hitting Deoxys? Roobushin has to switch out in that scenario.

Machamp is getting hit on it's boosted Defense and great special Defense 50% of the time. The other 50%, the opponent is slapping itself around. What is stopping Machamp from Resting again?

Roobushin is taking hits 100% of the time, getting phazed 100% of the time. Roobushin recovers about 20% of it's HP on average with Drain Punch. Burn takes about 12.5% away each turn. Toxic takes a lot more. You're still losing HP every turn.

"Roobushin is better" is your opinion. It's more accurate to say that you prefer Roobushin. The two Pokemon play very differently. Bulk Up Roobushin is more popular than Bulk Up Machamp at the moment. Machamp is most popular as an offensive lead, actually.

A powerful Pokemon sweeping a team after it's checks are exhausted is expected. Machamp does this as well, late to mid game. Your statement "Roobushin sweeps teams" implies that it sweeps prepared teams with reliable checks.

Edit: lol. I don't consider you to be my enemy, much less a bitter one. We don't even know each other that well. You seem to be the sort that is easily agitated, though.
 
Don't forget that Burn drops Machamp's Attack 100% of the time and if it sets up on the switch, I can hit it 100% of the time too.

A powerful Pokemon sweeping a team after it's checks are exhausted is expected.
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What really separates the boys from the men in this case is that you can't check Roopushin with just anything. Not a lot of the most popular Pokemon in either the DW or Wifi metagame are very effective at taking him out, especially not with my custom spread.

And for the record, I was joking. I was hoping you'd catch it with the lowercase letters, but once again, it appears I've overestimated you.
 
SJCrew said:
Don't forget that Burn drops Machamp's Attack 100% of the time and if it sets up on the switch, I can hit it 100% of the time too.


What really separates the boys from the men in this case is that you can't check Roopushin with just anything. Not a lot of the most popular Pokemon in either the DW or Wifi metagame are very effective at taking him out, especially not with my custom spread.

And for the record, I was joking. I was hoping you'd catch it with the lowercase letters, but once again, it appears I've overestimated you.
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ChestoRest handles that, though. If I DynamicPunch on the switch, and you're not a Ghost type, you're put at a disadvantage.

You can't check Machamp with just anything either, so that point is moot. Machamp itself is a decent Roobushin check, outspeeding it, taking little from Mach Punch and denting it with DynamicPunch, along with confusing it.

I must admit, I have seen other Careful Roobushin, so it must have some merit. Use whatever works for you.

You do so constantly. Please don't overtax my simple mind. :(
 
I'll tell you something though, it is fun watching a scarf Sazandora trying to revenge you with Draco Meteor and you end up nullifying the damage and killing him with a +2 Drain Punch.
 
^ Basically what I've been saying for most of this thread. "Strong special attacker" doesn't mean OHKO. And if you don't OHKO, well, you're facing a 140 base Att Pokemon at +1. What do you think is gonna happen?
 
One thing to consider while making your EV spreads : Due to Roopushin 45 base speed, he does not naturally outspeed Hippowdon. To do that, you need 20 speed EVs against 0 spe/neutral nature Hippowdon.

Although I'm not really convinced that outspeeding the big hippo really is that important..
 
228.zip said:
One thing to consider while making your EV spreads : Due to Roopushin 45 base speed, he does not naturally outspeed Hippowdon. To do that, you need 20 speed EVs against 0 spe/neutral nature Hippowdon.

Although I'm not really convinced that outspeeding the big hippo really is that important..
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It isn't. If it doesn't have Roar then Roopushin really doesn't have trouble. You Drain Punch after EQ and you Bulk Up when you know it's going to use Slack Off. it's a loosing battle for the hippo

Recently I've noticed people trying to kill me with Suicune. Anybody know how many CMs it would take for Surf to OHKO my Roopushin with my EV spread? Adamant 68 HP/216 SpD? They haven't really been an issue I just want to know how many Bulk Ups I can safely get before I should kill it.
 
Well, did Hitmonchan, Machamp, Nageki and Dageki bother you too?

Back on track, I think ~3 Calm Minds should have around the same power as a Scarf Shanderaa Overheat, and since you survive that... well, there is no kill like the overkill.
 
I forgot, Hammer Arm actually gets boosted by Iron Fist, so Hammer Arm would have the same base power as Close Combat that trades the Defense drops for -10 Accuracy, +5 PP, and only -Speed (which who cares it's only Speed a terrible stat for Roobushin!)

So actually, Hammer Arm would be better than Superpower on a Choice Band set unless you're running Guts instead.

That makes Drain Punch vs. Hammer Arm twice as decisive, though I'd probably still use Drain Punch on Bulk Up due to the success I've had with it.
 
Good point. If you get Shanderaa out of the way, Choice Band+Iron Fist+Hammer Arm equals devastation. Especially in Trick Room where you get faster every turn.

I say Hammer Arm is always superior on him over Superpower, Iron Fist or no. The speed drop is not a concern for him at all, but losing attack power and bulk most certainly is!

On the Bulk Up set, Drain Punch and Mach Punch are bar none the way to go, I agree.
 
In Trick Room you're better off with Guts Roobushin running a Toxic/Flame Orb. More power, the freedom to siwtch attacks you don't have with CB and you effectively become invulnerable to status. The loss of longevity makes little to no difference in a team as fast paced as a TR one anyway (Especially in Doubles and Triples should you be using it there).
 
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