Metagame Convergence [(New Bans post #361)]

Keyacom said:
Why are moves that the Pokemon can't directly get, but a pre-evo can get due to the mechanic, unavailable for the evolved mons?

If this restriction were relaxed, this could allow for nifty combos, like:
  • :ceruledge: Pyro Ball, Wild Charge, Extreme Speed, Play Rough
  • :gholdengo: Shell Smash, Will-O-Wisp
  • :armarouge: Electro Ball, Eruption
  • :hatterene: Lumina Crash, Morning Sun
  • :sylveon: Boomburst
  • :gyarados: Wave Crash, Triple Dive, Jet Punch
  • :lokix: Fell Stinger
  • :lucario: Smart Strike
  • :pawmot: Volt Tackle
  • :drednaw: Ice Spinner, Wave Crash, Body Press
  • :coalossal: Salt Cure, Accelerock, Head Smash
  • :cloyster: Jet Punch
  • :flareon: Population Bomb? (could take advantage of Guts for this to work)
Here, I only covered moves because Abilities can't be passed on through evolution.

Additionally, no pure Normal-types get phazing moves, which would force a quickban for Komala (and/or Comatose).
Click to expand...

It was decided to be streamlined similar to that of Inheritance to minimize confusion and potential banworthy elements.
 
Keyacom said:
Why are moves that the Pokemon can't directly get, but a pre-evo can get due to the mechanic, unavailable for the evolved mons?

If this restriction were relaxed, this could allow for nifty combos, like:
  • :ceruledge: Pyro Ball, Wild Charge, Extreme Speed, Play Rough
  • :gholdengo: Shell Smash, Will-O-Wisp
  • :armarouge: Electro Ball, Eruption
  • :hatterene: Lumina Crash, Morning Sun
  • :sylveon: Boomburst
  • :gyarados: Wave Crash, Triple Dive, Jet Punch
  • :lokix: Fell Stinger
  • :lucario: Smart Strike
  • :pawmot: Volt Tackle
  • :drednaw: Ice Spinner, Wave Crash, Body Press
  • :coalossal: Salt Cure, Accelerock, Head Smash
  • :cloyster: Jet Punch
  • :flareon: Population Bomb? (could take advantage of Guts for this to work)
Here, I only covered moves because Abilities can't be passed on through evolution.

Additionally, no pure Normal-types get phazing moves, which would force a quickban for Komala (and/or Comatose).
Click to expand...
because we'd probably need to follow that up with bans of gholdengo, several eeveelutions, and virtually anything with a form change
 
I don't mean to sound ungrateful or impatient. I absolutely love the format, but is there an ETA on the ban implementation? Every single game is speed boost espeon or dondozo. I want to be more creative with teams, but have no choice but to try and counter the 2.
 
Hadrosaur said:
I don't mean to sound ungrateful or impatient. I absolutely love the format, but is there an ETA on the ban implementation? Every single game is speed boost espeon or dondozo. I want to be more creative with teams, but have no choice but to try and counter the 2.
Click to expand...
Speed Boost and Dondozo are banned now, dont worry
 
I got (basically) Top 50 with this team, and I also got three 6-0s in a row with it and I wanted to share it with you guys.
Proof:
1675557858245.png


Paste: :Garganacl::Dragonite::Gastrodon::Meowscarada::Palafin::Gholdengo:
:sv/Garganacl:
Garganacl @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 132 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
Garganacl is a good Special wall for this team, its moves are low bp but I find that it isn't actually that Passive. Tera Fairy is good since I havent got any good dark resists for this team.

:Sv/Dragonite:
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 172 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
Honestly this mon is A+ tier in this meta, I feel like it just sits on everything and hits super hard with brave bird. It's especially useful against Contrary Lilligant and ohkos it with B.B. Ev spread is kinda goofy but I like 201 speed since it can outspeed other dnites. I like tera Flying to hit extra hard on its already powerful brave birds and it's a good last resort against setup sweepers.

:Sv/gastrodon:
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Recover
I mainly had gastro in for speed boost espeon, but it's still useful for the team against the plethora of quiver sweepers running around. It's pretty frail on the physical side but the max Spdef is neccesary imo.

:Sv/Meoscarada:
Meowscarada @ Choice Band
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- U-turn
Meow meow's power hwhip is so strong, it 2hkos even medium bulk offensive resists and ohkos almost all offensive guys. CC is great against steels and is also very strong, and U-turn is awesome for keeping up momentum since grass/dark/fighting doesn't hit everything and is a good midground for 50/50s.

Palafin @ Leftovers
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water/Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Jet Punch
- Close Combat
- Recover
I find it hilarious that shellos is the one that makes Palafin great for this set, but it's true. Recover makes it last forever and CC can hit really hard even against neutral grasses. Tera fighting or water both work since water helps it pick up more ohkos on faster mons but tera fighting helps against wallbreak against bulkier teams.

:sv/gholdengo:
Gholdengo @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Recover
My next guest needs no introduction! He literally does not get a single thing but is still great lmao. He helps a lot against dragon types on this team even though he's supposed to be an offensive mon. Recover keeps him alive and the three other moves hit most things.
 
Here's a fun set:

Dragonite @ Throat Spray
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

And before the speed boost ban gets implemented:
Espeon @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Lumina Crash
- Draining Kiss
 
This meta seems cool. I’m gonna list out some pure types and their options. This is heavily WIP.

Bug
Sing, Swords Dance, Sticky Web, Bug Buzz, Taunt, Fell Stinger, Perish Song, Iron Defense, Silk Trap, Block, Circle Throw, Throat Chop, U-Turn, Poison Jab, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Giga Drain, First Impression, Sucker Punch, Memento, Gunk Shot, Recover, Cosmic Power, Rapid Spin, Curse, Explosion, Stealth Rock, Rock Slide, Ice Spinner, Seed Bomb

Sturdy, Technician, Stakeout, Tinted Lens, Compoundeyes
Dark:
Power Gem, Fake Out, Taunt, Nasty Plot, Play Rough, Icy Wind, Seed Bomb, U-Turn, Foul Play, Thunder Wave, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Hypnosis, Parting Shot, Wish, Mean Look, Calm Mind, Stored Power, Psychic, Yawn, Curse, Hone Claws, Knock Off, Agility, Night Daze, Grass Knot, Swords Dance, Trick, Flamethrower, Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast, Copycat, Jaw Lock, Outrage, Fire Fang, Thunder Fang, Ice Fang, Psychic Fangs, Wild Charge, Destiny Bond, Endeavor, Jaw Lock

Fur Coat, Technician, Inner Focus, Illusion, Intimidate, Guard Dog, Stakeout
Dragon:
Thunder Wave, Agility, Dragon Dance, Outrage, Fire Spin, Icy Wind, Dragon Tail, Waterfall, Iron Head, Surf, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, Thunder, Blizzard, Extreme Speed, Aqua Jet, Crunch, Dragon Claw, Zen Headbutt, Rock Slide, Iron Defense, Taunt, Swords Dance, Earthquake, Close Combat, Night Slash, First Impression, Curse, Power Whip, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Ice Spinner, Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast, Life Dew

Shed Skin, Marvel Scale, Rock Head, Overcoat, Mold Breaker, Sap Sipper, Shell Armor
Electric:
Nuzzle, Nasty Plot, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Wild Charge, Volt Switch, Draining Kiss, Grass Knot, Play Rough, Surf, Focus Blast, Fake Out, Wish, Volt Tackle, Electro Ball, Explosion, Taunt, Calm Mind, Stored Power, Shadow Ball, Curse, Yawn, Fire Punch, Dragon Pulse, Dazzling Gleam, Dragon Tail, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Power Gem, Psychic Fangs, Night Slash, Super Fang, U-Turn, Seed Bomb, Grass Knot, Coil, Drain Punch, Rock Slide, Body Press, Giga Drain, Liquidation, Flamethrower, Close Combat, Recover, Zing Zap, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Hydro Pump, Memento, Sucker Punch, Parabolic Charge, Chilling Water

Static, Lightning Rod, Volt Absorb, Intimidate, Guts, Levitate, Natural Cure, Iron Fist, Electromorphosis

edit: well thank god I went to sleep at 4 types rather than doing all 18 first lmao, thanks CarrierPidove
 
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JTD783 said:
This meta seems cool. I’m gonna list out some pure types and their options. This is heavily WIP.

Bug
Sing, Swords Dance, Sticky Web, Bug Buzz, Taunt, Fell Stinger, Perish Song, Iron Defense, Silk Trap, Block, Circle Throw, Throat Chop, U-Turn, Poison Jab, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Giga Drain, First Impression, Sucker Punch, Memento, Gunk Shot, Recover, Cosmic Power, Rapid Spin, Curse, Explosion, Stealth Rock, Rock Slide, Ice Spinner, Seed Bomb

Sturdy, Technician, Stakeout, Tinted Lens, Compoundeyes
Dark:
Power Gem, Fake Out, Taunt, Nasty Plot, Play Rough, Icy Wind, Seed Bomb, U-Turn, Foul Play, Thunder Wave, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Hypnosis, Parting Shot, Wish, Mean Look, Calm Mind, Stored Power, Psychic, Yawn, Curse, Hone Claws, Knock Off, Agility, Night Daze, Grass Knot, Swords Dance, Trick, Flamethrower, Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast, Copycat, Jaw Lock, Outrage, Fire Fang, Thunder Fang, Ice Fang, Psychic Fangs, Wild Charge, Destiny Bond, Endeavor, Jaw Lock

Fur Coat, Technician, Inner Focus, Illusion, Intimidate, Guard Dog, Stakeout
Dragon:
Thunder Wave, Agility, Dragon Dance, Outrage, Fire Spin, Icy Wind, Dragon Tail, Waterfall, Iron Head, Surf, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, Thunder, Blizzard, Extreme Speed, Aqua Jet, Crunch, Dragon Claw, Zen Headbutt, Rock Slide, Iron Defense, Taunt, Swords Dance, Earthquake, Close Combat, Night Slash, First Impression, Curse, Power Whip, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Ice Spinner, Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast, Life Dew

Shed Skin, Marvel Scale, Rock Head, Overcoat, Mold Breaker, Sap Sipper, Shell Armor
Electric:
Nuzzle, Nasty Plot, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Wild Charge, Volt Switch, Draining Kiss, Grass Knot, Play Rough, Surf, Focus Blast, Fake Out, Wish, Volt Tackle, Electro Ball, Explosion, Taunt, Calm Mind, Stored Power, Shadow Ball, Curse, Yawn, Fire Punch, Dragon Pulse, Dazzling Gleam, Dragon Tail, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Power Gem, Psychic Fangs, Night Slash, Super Fang, U-Turn, Seed Bomb, Grass Knot, Coil, Drain Punch, Rock Slide, Body Press, Giga Drain, Liquidation, Flamethrower, Close Combat, Recover, Zing Zap, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Hydro Pump, Memento, Sucker Punch, Parabolic Charge, Chilling Water

Static, Lightning Rod, Volt Absorb, Intimidate, Guts, Levitate, Natural Cure, Iron Fist, Electromorphosis
Click to expand...

there's already a spreadsheet thats been released of every move available for every type combo by Momblast

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mb7PC-WlAEddFPsDyaVewqNsFLrC32rFrEgBpxEAQOU/edit?usp=sharing

Just so you don't waste much of your time doing this
 
Thank my Insomnia, but I've made a spreadsheet of which abilities can be inherited to each type. Unreleased abilities use blue text and are separated from the rest. Banned abilities have a red background.

If there are any mistakes/omissions, please inform me. I started this at 3 AM, and also did it all by hand.

my boss tiffany said:
ty for this, I made a site based off this spreadsheet to make it easier to search for moves, linked here
Click to expand...
Feel free to add my data to this site.

Edit (2/10/23): I added 1 last page to the sheet, in which every Ability is listed alphabetically with the types they're available to.
 
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Mr Spaz said:
Thank my Insomnia, but I've made a spreadsheet of which abilities can be inherited to each type. Unreleased abilities use blue text and are separated from the rest. Banned abilities have a red background.

If there are any mistakes/omissions, please inform me. I started this at 3 AM, and also did it all by hand.


Feel free to add my data to this site.
Click to expand...

my boss tiffany said:
This should be a (hopefully) complete and accurate list of abilities that are legal to use.
Anyone feel free to format it so that it's more readable/searchable (like having separate tabs for each type or something).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AVfLomGbdjo5Z0o1oSe8JN5RoxM2lPhFyLlsE9O624E/edit#gid=0
Click to expand...

I think you two should talk to each other lol. Either way, glad to see the effort put in by multiple parties. I am working on a similar, slightly more complex, spreadsheet that will also include natdex searchability, as it may prove to be easier to work with as Home Compatibility and possible DLCs drop in the near future.

my boss tiffany said:
ty for this, I made a site based off this spreadsheet to make it easier to search for moves, linked here

It only works with mon typing, move typing, move category, and move BP/accuracy/PP/priority right now so no searching by effects yet (except for recovery). Also probably doesn't play well with a bunch of people using it at once since idk much about webdev (chatGPT the mvp).

Please lmk if it's ever not working cuz that probably means I changed something and broke it
Click to expand...

Momblast said:
I was bored today and I haven't seen anyone else do this, so I decided to do it.

Here's a link to a Google Spreadsheet that shows a list of moves that pokemon of each type can use in Convergence.

As of 1/22/2023 I've finished the doc! It accounts for all pokemon currently coded into the game. Any pokemon that are not currently available, or any moves that are provided to the pool by banned pokemon, are crossed out (Slaking and Flutter Mane specifically have notes added to their moves, while the legendary Rhydons don't since they are the only pokemon of their type combinations).

Big thanks to Clastia who helped make this take a lot less time than it would have otherwise :)

(I've been updating this post as I worked on the doc but now that it's finished I deleted most of the fluff)
Click to expand...

Honestly huge props to the three of you for all of the work you have all done, as someone who has glanced at the charts I can tell you it is no small feat to keep track of all of these shared moves and abilities.

Might drop my link eventually. I've been kind of tackling it in my down time and it is definitely not easy to throw together, but we will see when we get there.
 
:sv/aerodactyl:
Aerodactyl
Dance/Claw sweeper:
@ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
Tera Type: Ground / Fire
EVs: 252 ATK / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance/Hone Claws
- Brave Bird
- Head Smash
- Earthquake / Flare Blitz

I always hated Gamefreak for not giving the most fitting and spammable STAB combination to Aerodactyl that any pokémon could ever ask for.
 
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zsocaman said:
:sv/aerodactyl:
Aerodactyl @ White Herb
Ability: Rock Head
Tera Type: Ground / Fire
EVs: 252 ATK / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Brave Bird
- Head Smash
- Earthquake / Flare Blitz

I always hated Gamefreak for not giving the most fitting and spammable STAB combination to Aerodactyl that any pokémon could ever ask for.
Click to expand...

Ummm... this is not a thing, for three reasons.

1) No Rock/Flying Pokemon gets Shell Smash (Minior does not exist yet).
2) Shell Smash is banned.
3) Aerodactyl is not in the game yet.

Could be interesting to see this Pokemon in a NatDex format or later once we get some DLC, but either way this set is absolutely illegal. Sorry!
 
Been trying out a Power Trip + Bulk Up set on Ting-Lu. Haven't had much progress on the ladder but, maybe this could work somehow?
1675729308385.png

Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Power Trip
- Earthquake
- Body Press / Rest

IDK may need thoughts
 
AquaticPanic said:
Ayo not sure what's the best way to bring these up but Final Gambit gets distributed to the likes of Chansey, Blissey, Dondozo, Alomomola, Vaporeon and Hariyama. I'm not sure how effective it is for them to have this, but it sounds a fair bit concerning for them to have this bc combined with their high HP stat, it can delete almost every mon in the game, which kinda makes switching into them extremely risky. Could be broken, could be a legit strat or could just be me misjuding how viable something truly is.

Again, might be an overreaction on my end (Specially since they're all very slow mons), but figured i'd bring them up either way just in case it matters
Click to expand...
I understand the panic for this, but i have played a few games with a team built around this and with the ability to hold a focus sash, put up a sub, or even having a ghost type.

Here is the team. May be better ways to set it up, but gave it my best try.

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit


242-0.png
1120.png

Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit


594-0.png
287.png

Alomomola @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit


297-0.png
640.png

Hariyama @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit


977-0.png
640.png

Dondozo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit


128-1.png
234.png

Tauros-Paldea-Combat @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Rage Fist
- No Retreat
- Bulk Up
 
AquaticPanic said:
Ayo not sure what's the best way to bring these up but Final Gambit gets distributed to the likes of Chansey, Blissey, Dondozo, Alomomola, Vaporeon and Hariyama. I'm not sure how effective it is for them to have this, but it sounds a fair bit concerning for them to have this bc combined with their high HP stat, it can delete almost every mon in the game, which kinda makes switching into them extremely risky. Could be broken, could be a legit strat or could just be me misjuding how viable something truly is.

Again, might be an overreaction on my end (Specially since they're all very slow mons), but figured i'd bring them up either way just in case it matters
Click to expand...
if revival blessing (or last respects) was allowed, i'd say final gambit would be broken. as it is, i don't think so because ultimately it's still trading a mon for a mon, and also because a lot of teams are running at least one ghost-type that can switch into it
 
PQRDG said:
Ummm... this is not a thing, for three reasons.

1) No Rock/Flying Pokemon gets Shell Smash (Minior does not exist yet).
2) Shell Smash is banned.
3) Aerodactyl is not in the game yet.

Could be interesting to see this Pokemon in a NatDex format or later once we get some DLC, but either way this set is absolutely illegal. Sorry!
Click to expand...
Oh I completely missed over the fact that we're purely talking Gen 9 availability, and I also tought EITHER Rock OR Flying type sharing (hence I put in Flare Blitz from Hisuian Arcanine.) Well then I'll fix it real quick.
 
Low-Key said:
:sv/iron-hands:
Iron Hands @ Punching Glove / Leppa Berry
Ability: Iron Fist
Tera Type: Ghost / Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 248 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Revival Blessing
- Thunder Punch
- Mach Punch
- Protect

revival blessing. Lol! Still has STAB priority Iron Fist boosted Mach Punch though (Punching Glove rises its BP to almost 80) so that's cool.
Click to expand...
i’m pretty sure drain punch would be better on this mon as a reliable recovery, with help from iron fist, you could run like a SD/BU set to get high damage drain punches. this could also be banded as like a scizor type thing with tera fighting. i don’t agree with the EV’s tho, i think 184HP/252+Atk/76Def/-Spa is the EV’s i would use. This set is super effective against the very threatening garganacl. a drain punch will kill it and a mach punch will 2HKO on band and mach punch kills after a SD and a tera fighting this will OHKO Garg. It doesn’t just kill garg tho, it will kill blissey with a drain punch and no sd or tera, it can kill meowscarada 50% of the time with mach punch and no tera or sd and OHKO on band, if it is weak to fighting, which a lot is, iron hands will thrive. and even flying and water types have to be scared with its T-punch stab.just to show how strong it is it will 2 tap the already banned dondozo. i think this mon will be a staple of Bulky Offense.
 
Willro101 said:
i’m pretty sure drain punch would be better on this mon as a reliable recovery, with help from iron fist, you could run like a SD/BU set to get high damage drain punches. this could also be banded as like a scizor type thing with tera fighting. i don’t agree with the EV’s tho, i think 184HP/252+Atk/76Def/-Spa is the EV’s i would use. This set is super effective against the very threatening garganacl. a drain punch will kill it and a mach punch will 2HKO on band and mach punch kills after a SD and a tera fighting this will OHKO Garg. It doesn’t just kill garg tho, it will kill blissey with a drain punch and no sd or tera, it can kill meowscarada 50% of the time with mach punch and no tera or sd and OHKO on band, if it is weak to fighting, which a lot is, iron hands will thrive. and even flying and water types have to be scared with its T-punch stab.just to show how strong it is it will 2 tap the already banned dondozo. i think this mon will be a staple of Bulky Offense.
Click to expand...
Revival Blessing was restricted, so that set is now outdated.
 
With all due respect — who in the ever loving fuck thought Moxie Salamence with Dragonite's Espeed set was legal and balanced?

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Dual Wingbeat
- Dragon Claw

And speaking of things that are absolutely ridiculous:

Tauros @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Fist
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rage Fist
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
 
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