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Counter that Pokemon - Mk IV [FINAL MATCH - Team 1 won!]

Having a revenge killer (mostly in the form of Choice Scarf) is always useful as a safety net. They tend to have a wide range of threats that they can offensively check and prevent a clean sweep. This is useful in cases of hax or niche sets that break through the defensive core. (like in the last CtP where all Team 2 had was Scarf Keldeo to fight the last pick Infernape) Things won't always go according as planned in the battle so having a Choice Scarfer as a ensured plan B is something I think we should have. Although, it is a legitimate point that we can essentially argue (at least for Team 1) that the fact each of our choices counters the opposing team we have a significantly strong defensive core (not really but when only considering the opposing team it's a viable claim) that the need for a such a safety is reduced.
 
Sadly, voting participation has dropped so there aren't as many votes to go off of but it can't be dragged out forever.


  • Scarf Haxorus: 1
  • Physcial Azelf: 4
  • Special Azelf: 4
  • Scarf Kyurem-B: 5
  • Total Votes: 14


yiePVRC.png
It was very close to a three way tie but the winner is


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Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam


The tough choices are not over yet as we still have threats on Team 2 left unchecked that we will have to cover with the fifth pick of Team 1. We've yet to have SR on Team 1 and Garchomp is going to take a kill everytime he comes in (unless we want to throw Landorus to lock it into Outrage) so these are some things to keep in mind with your suggestions.
 
What we need to remember is that we need a mon who:
a) Can set up SR and preferably other hazards as well
b) Can tanks hits from Garchomp
c) Has enough power/tricks to beat Garchomp 1 vs 1
With this in mind I'd like to suggest Ferrothorn
One major disadvantage of the Garchomp set given is simple: no Fire Blast. Without Fire Blast, Garchomp has no way to beat Ferrothorn one on one, locked or not so. Thanks to Garchomp's high speed, Gyro Ball hits VERY HARD.
This is the set I want to suggest:
598.png

Ferrothorn@Leftovers
EVs: 40 Atk/252 Def/50 HP/166 SpD
IVs: 0 Spd
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes/Thunder Wave/Leech Seed(on discussion)
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
Firstly, the EVs. A little changed from the Standard set on the smogon website, the 40 Atk EVs allow Ferro to guarantee a 2HKO after SR. 50 is in fact all it needs to avoid a 2HKO from LO Earthquake: it becomes a 3HKO. The rest of the EVs are to allow it to come in later on other mons. Thanks to this Ferro can set up SR as a lead with Garchomp and proceed to then 2HKO, LO recoil only speeding up the process. Alternatively, on the turn Chomp sets up SR Ferro can Leech Seed, allowing it to drain Garchomp and thus set up better(after LO recoil of a turn, leech seed damage of two turns, on the third turn and when Garchomp attacks for the second time, it very likely KOes itself with Life Orb, meaning Ferro gets SR guaranteed vs Chomp)
40 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 168-198 (46.92 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 50 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 126-149 (41.86 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock\
If Garchomp locks itself into outrage, Ferro has even better times:
Outrage: 25.58 - 29.9%
Thanks to good recovery in form of Leftovers and Leech Seed this set has the capability to beat Garchomp hands down.
Also, this mon can help deal with Rotom-W thanks to 40 Atk STAB Power Whip considering it has only one weakness.
Even if Team 2 selects a fire type mon for the last member, team 1 already has a fire type counter called Slowbro so it's not an issue, Ferro can set up SR and run.
Please comment and let's discuss before we vote.
 
The EV spread on that Ferrothorn is inefficient. Let's compare 50/252+ to 252/48+ (standard spread with 40 Def EVs moved to Atk):

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 50 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 126-149 (41.86 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 148-175 (42.04 - 49.71%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see, the damage is substantially the same. However, if we consider a random special attacker instead (let's take Scarf Magnezone's HP Fire; I'm not suggesting in any way Team 2 could pick it, it's just for comparison's sake), here's what we get:

252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 236-280 (67.04 - 79.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 50 HP / 166 SpD Ferrothorn: 236-280 (78.4 - 93.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You're trading a minuscule upgrade in physical tankiness for a huge drop in special tankiness. If you go for something like 252/60+/156 you get better physical bulk AND better special bulk than your spread, while still having room for those 40 Atk EVs. Not investing in HP is usually a very bad idea to obtain an optimized EV spread, so I'd suggest to reconsider yours in light of this, and maybe play a bit with a damage calculator to see how the different spreads affect physical and special bulk.

Oh, and on a separate note: Garchomp beats Ferrothorn by SDing on the switch, then 2HKOing with Earthquake easily (OHKOs 31.25% of the times after SR on your spread). Ferrothorn can't even Gyro Ball without concerns, since that puts it into 2HKO range from unboosted Earthquake thanks to Garchomp's Rough Skin. Ferrothorn does have some attractiveness, but it's bound to the fact it can stop Rotom-W (and just that, nothing else) in Team 2, surely not to beat Garchomp.
 
First of all, I'm really disappointed with the outcome of this vote but it's too late to bash Scarf Cube so whatever. Gotta work with what we have.

That being said, Garchomp is an extremely dangerous threat.
When I first looked through the possible choices of pokes that could set up stealth rocks while still being able to at least moderately check chomp, the only thing that was slightly tempting was physically defensive Bronzong.

But I noticed a huge weakness to Chandelure (which btw would also occur if we opt to choose Ferrothorn @ vyomov) so that thought was erased quickly.

I think Stealth Rocks are still not yet feasible which means we have to further pressure Team 2 with powerful attackers.

Imo it shouldn't be an issue to find a 6th team member that can provide rocks and still be useful other than setting up the hazard.

HOWEVER, it's become extremely difficult now to actually "counter" team 2 because their current line up is pretty damn good and they have the pick advantage on their side.

Anyways, my submission for this round:

381.png


Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Surf

You might be thinking "wtf ice beam on latios, has he gone crazy?" but no, it allows us to kill Garchomp and severely cripple Zapdos (252 SpAtk Life Orb Latios Ice Beam vs 248 HP/228 SpDef Zapdos (+SpDef) : 55,87% - 65,8% (2 hits to KO)) without lowering Latios' Special Attack stat.
Same reason for Psyshock being here, kills Terrakion without having to use Draco.
Draco btw one shots Rotom most of the time and does up to like 71 % to Zapdos.

Latios provides us with another Ground immunity so Garchomp is forced to use Outrage in order to hit it. (and even then it's only able to do that on the switch since Latios just outspeeds and kills sth.)

Surf for possible TTar Pick. Roost or HP fire might be useful as well, though.

Possibly (or probably, rather) there are better picks but I think Latios would be a decent choice regardless because it hits like a nuke and is able to dent most of team 2 really hard while still being able to take some hits (at least in theory).
 
ganj4lF said:
The EV spread on that Ferrothorn is inefficient. Let's compare 50/252+ to 252/48+ (standard spread with 40 Def EVs moved to Atk):

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 50 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 126-149 (41.86 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 148-175 (42.04 - 49.71%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see, the damage is substantially the same. However, if we consider a random special attacker instead (let's take Scarf Magnezone's HP Fire; I'm not suggesting in any way Team 2 could pick it, it's just for comparison's sake), here's what we get:

252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 236-280 (67.04 - 79.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 50 HP / 166 SpD Ferrothorn: 236-280 (78.4 - 93.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You're trading a minuscule upgrade in physical tankiness for a huge drop in special tankiness. If you go for something like 252/60+/156 you get better physical bulk AND better special bulk than your spread, while still having room for those 40 Atk EVs. Not investing in HP is usually a very bad idea to obtain an optimized EV spread, so I'd suggest to reconsider yours in light of this, and maybe play a bit with a damage calculator to see how the different spreads affect physical and special bulk.

Oh, and on a separate note: Garchomp beats Ferrothorn by SDing on the switch, then 2HKOing with Earthquake easily (OHKOs 31.25% of the times after SR on your spread). Ferrothorn can't even Gyro Ball without concerns, since that puts it into 2HKO range from unboosted Earthquake thanks to Garchomp's Rough Skin. Ferrothorn does have some attractiveness, but it's bound to the fact it can stop Rotom-W (and just that, nothing else) in Team 2, surely not to beat Garchomp.
Click to expand...

Firstly thanks a lot for the feedback, appreciate it :)
I do understand your concerns and am playing with EVs to try and get those 40 Atk EVs needed to 2HKO after SR(although I'm beginning to realize that LO recoil means maybe might not be needed, so still working on it).
However, one note. I intend Ferrothorn to be a lead mon on Team 1, so questions of Garchomp SDing on the switch aren't valid here because Garchomp can't really SD for fear of 2HKO or Leech Seed, which takes Garchomp's mickey.
Yes I see the Rough Skin which is troubling me, but will think of how to get past it.
Right now Ferro is only bulky counter who can attack as well as tank.
Re Latios: I would prefer this as pick 6 because if we do not pick SR Right now, Team 2 will put ENORMOUS pressure on Team 1 possible SRs and we will have to go for Sub-standard SR because they will select mon to beat SR setters whereas a SR-setter now forces them to go for fire types(adding another SR weak mon) or something else that beats Ferrothorn giving us momentum with last pick to patch up weaknesses)
 
I won't assume you will lead with Ferrothorn, if your submission relies too much on that they can just pick something like Infernape, Hydreigon, whatever, and lead with it just to burn you to ashes and force you to run away and lose your "leading" benefit (heck, they can just lead with Terrakion and click CC!). Still, I'm not 100% convinced Ferro beats Garchomp even as a lead (I'm too lazy to run calcs with Leech Seed and stuff), but the fact that nothing forces them to lead with Chomp still makes your assumption very weak, and those exploitable weaknesses to Fire / Fighting mean you don't even need to look too far to find something that just prevents Ferrothorn from being a good lead.
 
Well, if they want to set up SR, chances are they will be leading with Chomp because otherwise the later SR is set the less effect on the battle it has and the less effective the set becomes.
Also, if they lead with Terrakion, they can't just click CC, because we can switch Slowbro in who takes a pittance and thanks to the drops in special defense and defense OHKOs meaning they have to switch out again for a Slowbro counter(Zapdos?) who risks getting burned(Scald) and being negotiated.
Team 1 does have the last pick and already carry decent checks to Infernape and Hydreigon, so why would Team 2 pick those mons when we already counter them, leaving team 1 a free hand in picking the last choice.
Mind you, I'm not saying Ferrothorn is perfect or anything. It needs good support (last pick will be important) to act as a good lead because, as you correctly pointed, it has common weaknesses. However, that doesn't mean we should discard it as an option. Lots of pokemon are completely viable despite having common weaknesses.
Nevertheless, I do agree that we can't assume stuff like it being the lead because at the end of the day that's in the hands of the battlers themselves. However, considering the niche role that Ferro plays and the niche role of the Garchomp picked, if Ferro is picked, it will almost definitely be the lead.
Once again though, thanks for the constructive criticism of the set and be rest assured that I'll try my best to adjust the EV spread to improve the bulk of the set :)
 
Right now, I'd say Team 2 needs a Physical pokemon (all we have is Kyub) that can handle Scizor, as CB Scizor manhandles Team 1 atm. (Also reserving Scizor for Team 2). As such, I suggest Infernape.


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OU->UU?~Infernape (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
~Fire Punch
~Thunder Punch
~Close Combat
~Mach Punch

Well, Infernape may be mediocre in OU, but in CTP her coverage and highly offensive stats allow her to shine. Fire Punch is used over Flare Blitz as Infernape can't afford too much damage on it, and Fire Punch still hits several targets respectably. Thunderpunch helps with them bulky waters, which atm also can annoy Team 1. Close Combat hurts, and it will just help with bruising anything on Team 2 bar Zapdos, who itself is more specially defensive, not to mention Zap does not care for a Fire Punch or two. Mach Punch gives us priority, and helps us take out a key threat if they are low enough, such as Keldeo, Cloyster, and Hydreigon. It also forces Team 2 to pick something along the lines a bulky ground, which all fall to Lando or Kyub.

Infernape may not be a nuke, but it does threaten several pokes, and forces Team 2 away from Scizor, who as of now, is the scariest pokemon Team 1 can face.

@ Ferro-Decent pick, but I feel that Terrak alone means Ferro can't fully counter Chomp. Even if it is used as a lead, all Team 2 needs is a fast Taunter that can afford to give up a moveslot.

@ Latios- Without HP fire, I think this pick is not too useful, as Scizor can easily take a Surf without Rain and take out Latios with a Bullet Punch or two.
 
@MX42: Nice set, but honestly, this would be better for pick 6 since, as Melee Mewtwo said earlier, SR is essential right now because otherwise Team 2 could always select either a spinner(making our job more difficult because we have no spinblockers) or a mon who pressurizes most SR setters like Keldeo which makes our job only more difficult
 
@Drako
SR is essential this pick. Picking last is game-breaking, and Team 1 needs to abuse that as much as possible. Picking our last offensive presence this pick isn't a good idea, as the other team has two picks to choose their revenge killer and glue, and both of which could easily counter your Latios (Scizor/U-turning Scarfer such as Hydreigon) so I'd suggest you wait to resubmit that next pick for team 1, tweaked with EVs and moveset to be the most efficient against the opposing team. Same thing @MX42 as vyomov said above me.
That being said, I'd like to propose Specially Defensive Celebi:
Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 236 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Recover

This Celebi set can hit every Pokemon on the opposing team for SE damage right now (kind of). It sets up SR, can Recover off damage that isn't doing more than 50+, and acts as a status absorber for the offensive mons on Team 1. I don't have much to say, so I'll skip to the calcs.

0 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 128-152 (31.68 - 37.62%) -- 97.27% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 226+ SpD Zapdos: 80-96 (20.83 - 25%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock

Between Heat Wave possibly missing and recover, Celebi and Zapdos pretty much Stalemate each other, but there's no reason we can't take care of Zapdos otherwise.

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 520-616 (128.71 - 152.47%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 176-210 (54.32 - 64.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Well, I'm sure we saw this coming. The good part about this? Celebi can come in on a choice-locked move- with only Stone Edge doing a decent chunk, however Celebi needs to come in safely so she can Giga Drain off the damage. If this fails, there's always Slowbro.

252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-W Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 269-322 (66.58 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Rotom-W: 152-182 (50.16 - 60.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Celebi is faster (241 to 208) and recovers about 75-90 HP, which should (correct me if I'm wrong) turn it into a 3HKO which means a switch-in is safe.

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 255-302 (63.11 - 74.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 232-276 (64.8 - 77.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

They're about the same, but Celebi will most likely lose due to Speed. Kyurem-B should easily revenge kill with his Ice Beam.

It's not a huge defensive pivot, but it was the best I could find that could give us SR and deal with Rotom-W, who is one of the bigger threats to Landorus right now on the opposing team.
 
Okay, so I did some searching for SR setters that were somehow (by Balloon, Levitate or typing) immune to ground so that it could be used to force Garchomp to Outrage. I also wanted it to be an actual threat to Team 2 as well as not weak to SpDef Skarm. I think I found what I was looking for.

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Terrakion @ Air Balloon
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 236 Atk / 20 Def
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance

What does this set do? Team 2 already has their own Terrakion that has been a headache for Team 1, now it is time to turn the tables. Those beautiful STABs mean that Terrakion can be very flexible with the moves it runs and its monstrous attack allows it to use all sorts of different items. Air Balloon lets Terrakion switch into Garchomp all day long as the only thing the dragon can do back is lock itself into an Outrage and beg to be revenge killed. Stealth Rock gives Team 2 the precious hazard while Swords Dance helps patch up any worries about its power by allowing it to mow down many sturdy walls. (although Rock Polish could be used in its place to clean up late game, feedback please) Close Combat and Stone Edge are just Terrakion's STABs but that is all he'll ever need. "Terrakion should have 20 Def EVs in order to always survive an Outrage from Garchomp and set-up SR before dying." -Alexwolf Even unboosted Terrakion can pose quite a threat to the opposing team.

Note:The calcs are off since I made a slight EV tweak but I won't bother fixing them since the difference is miniscule.

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 184-217 (60.72 - 71.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 153-181 (50.49 - 59.73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 372-440 (96.87 - 114.58%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 422-500 (130.65 - 154.79%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(course, speed ties can go both ways)

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 204-241 (56.98 - 67.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 84-100 (23.46 - 27.93%) -- possible 4HKO

(after two switch-ins with SR up and one round LO recoil, Stone Edge + Close Combat KOs even with low rolls)

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Skarmory: 144-169 (44.03 - 51.68%) -- 76.56% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

How can this set help the team? Terrakion helps Team 1 play around Garchomp while setting up SR itself. On top of that, it isn't weak and will actually force the opposing team to dig for counters in the next round.

What can the other team do in response to this set? There's not much that can switch into a Terrakion, much less after a Swords Dance. However, physically bulky walls such as Gliscor, Hippowdon and Slowbro can handle the bull (dog?). Lando-T may not have recovery like the others but on the other hand it can actually bite back. Sadly for the Ground types, Terrakion's Balloon means that they won't actually be able to hit with their Super Effective STAB attacks which forces them to pop it first and eat an extra Stone Edge/Close Combat to the face.

What potential additions can be made to deal with these responses? The three walls all hit too little for them to actually be a concern in countering. The biggest danger they could pose is flinging out Toxics but there are many ways to handle that. Lando-T is more difficult due to his high attack stat and U-Turn but the lack of recovery makes it easier to wear down. Slowbro may not like the U-Turn damage and having its low damage output taken advantage of the turn it comes in but it can still make sure Landorus-T doesn't take bites out of the rest of the team.
 
Just a couple of thoughts here...
@Celebi: Celebi doesn't even get Stealth Rock in BW!!! Check on the Celebi moves:
http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/celebi/moves
So the set is rather pointless(admittedly, I liked the set but was intrigued because, as per my knowledge, no non-rock, non-ground or non-steel type has EVER got Stealth Rock except by TM, which isn't valid this gen)
@Terrakion: While I like the idea, it has couple of issues. Firstly, Fake Out user would kind of break the whole set, rendering the team weak to Weavile or Infernape who can break the balloon and then wreak havoc. Secondly, Garchomp OHKOes Terrakion after Close Combat because it has defense drops(check that in calcs, you'll see that Terrakion is OHKOed outright thanks to defense drops meaning Garchomp will then continue for a turn or two and then switch out.)
 
Before I post my set, I have one question: whats more important, picking a pokemon that can counter Garchomp or a pokemon that can counter both Garchomp and Terrakion? Being a SR user should be obvious. I have two pokemon in mind and depending on the answers I will post it sometime tomorrow morning. One poke is less shaky against chomp but can't handle Terrakion, while the other is able to put fear in Terrakion but is somewhat shaky against chomp.
 
vyomov said:
Just a couple of thoughts here...
@Celebi: Celebi doesn't even get Stealth Rock in BW!!! Check on the Celebi moves:
http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/celebi/moves
So the set is rather pointless(admittedly, I liked the set but was intrigued because, as per my knowledge, no non-rock, non-ground or non-steel type has EVER got Stealth Rock except by TM, which isn't valid this gen)
Click to expand...

I don't think this matters... Celebi has access to Stealth Rock and the set is perfectly legal. I tried making the set on both PO and PS and it worked fine.

@G-Von, I think being able to counter Garchomp is more important, as we have Slowbro which can beat Terrakion.
 
vyomov said:
I'd say Chomp, considering Terrakion is unlikely to be the lead since only Chomp has SR
Click to expand...

I don't know why you consider so probable that Garchomp leads. Look back at the last CtP's ending battle (in signature): they never led with their SR setter. The previous CtP (Mk II) was different in this regard, but there also was that ridiculous Deoxys-D pick which made extremely easy to lead with a setter in the first place. So I'd say it's far from obvious that Chomp will be their lead, and if it's so obvious then it's not even a problem since we can lead with Cube and OHKO.

Also, another little problem in your previous argument...

vyomov said:
Also, if they lead with Terrakion, they can't just click CC, because we can switch Slowbro in who takes a pittance and thanks to the drops in special defense and defense OHKOs meaning they have to switch out again for a Slowbro counter(Zapdos?) who risks getting burned(Scald) and being negotiated.
Click to expand...

This is a bad argument since it relies on Team 1 having greater prediction compared to Team 2. What if Team 2 just goes to Rotom-W on the Slowbro switch-in? You can't assume to outplay the opponent as an argument for your suggestion, since then the whole project would be a massive waste of time, to an extent.
 
I'm a big fan of Balloon Terrakion as well. We need a Ground immunity (forcing Garchomp to Outrage and be easily revenge killed by Kyurem), a Stealth Rock user, and massive offensive pressure that our team lacks somewhat. Terrakion gives this all to us. I had been thinking about Balloon Heatran and Claydol, but the former has troubles with much of the opposing team, while the latter frustrates 3/4 opposing members but is criminally easy to counterpick.

Also vyomov, don't trust the Smogon Pokédex right now, as it's missing quite a few moves, at the very least BW2 Move Tutor moves. chaos is working on an update so it'll be fixed soon but otherwise just use Bulbapedia, Showdown or some other source.
 
Came up with a somewhat cool idea:

344.png

Claydol @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Charge Beam
- Toxic

Rapid Spin for Chomp's SR and any potential Skarmory pick. SR doesn't need any explanation so the only things left to explain are the last two moves and the EV spread. The EV spread allows Claydol to just barely survive a +2 Outrage and set-up SR before Garchomps kills it, or cripple it with Toxic. It also gives us a secondary Pokemon to tank hits from Terrakion, should Slowbro get crited by Stone Edge. Now for the last two slots i wanted something that can let Claydol handle SpD Skarmory, as Claydol loses against it in the long run, as well as a move that would make Claydol not so easy to switch into. And this is what Charge Beam and Toxic do! Toxic cripples any member on team 2 for now, and Charge Beam defeats Skarmory and lets Claydol do something after it sets up SR should the opponent pick a Steel-type that can't threaten Claydol, such as Forretress. Seeing as Charge Beam is necessary to not be set-up bait by a potential Skarmory pick, the only move that can be changed is Toxic, so i would like to see some discussion about it. Toxic is nice as it cripples Rotom-W, which is still very problematic for team 1, easily getting momentum with Volt Switch against the only Pokemon that wants to switch into it, Kyurem-B. However, HP Fire and Ice Beam are good options as well. HP Fire allows Claydol to do some meaningful damage to Ferrothorn, which is a dangerous Pokemon for team 1 if we go with Claydol, as it already walls Jirachi and Kyurem-B. HP Fire can also potentially 2HKO Ferrothorn at +1 with a bit of previous damage, which is nice, and also 2HKOes Forretress, another very viable pick for team 2, especially SpD Forretress, which can wall Kyu-B and Jirachi too, sets up Spikes, and unlike Ferro can spin as well. Ice Beam forms the BoltBeam combo with Charge Beam and hits Chomp hard, but seems less useful than HP Fire overall.

So Toxic, HP Fire, or Ice Beam on the last slot?

Oh and Balloon Terrakion is an excellent choice as well!
 
I really don't know why I didn't consider balloon when I was looking for a decent poke.

Seconding Balloon Terrak. Can't think of a better choice right now.
 
Team 1 is so Scizor weak... QQ. Our whole team sucks against it. If we have to use an Air Ballooner, I'd say Heatran if anything...
 
First post on this, but what about:

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Trait:Levitate
EVs: 252HP/252Def/4SpA
Bold Nature
-Magic Coat
-Ice Beam
-Psychic
-Rest

Forces Garchomp to go for the Outrage to hurt it. If it goes for the Stealth Rock, Magic Coat and we don't actually need a SR setter. Can sponge hits from Terrakion too. I picked Rest over Moonlight so as to avoid the TTar counter pick. Let the calls speak for themselves:

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 166-196 (37.38 - 44.14%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(166, 168, 170, 172, 174, 176, 178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 196)

4 SpA Cresselia Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 168-200 (51.85 - 61.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 324-382 (72.97 - 86.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 248-296 (69.27 - 82.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So it can beat both one on one, forcing the Outrage from Garchomp so its easily revenged and Terrakion can barely scratch it. Even if they do pick TTar afterwards, pick 6 could go to Air Balloon Terrakion.
 
Btw Melee Mewtwo, Terrakion should have 20 Def EVs in order to always survive an Outrage from Garchomp and set-up SR before dying.
 
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Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock

Hippowdown is a very good choice for Team 1 for the moment as now CB Terrakion is laughable between Hippo and Slowbro tho Garchomp can setup SR against Hippo. Hippowdon also hardwalls 3 of 4 pokemon on Team 2 only Rotom can switch in and beat it with Hydro Pump, but then it has to take Sand Storm damage + SR damage which will wear it down quickly and even faster if it keeps Volt Switching, Hippo also walls Scizor hard and can phaze it and wear it down with SR. Slack Off is an amazing move letting Hippowdon easely Whirlstall stall Team 2 and EQ is really just the only needed physical move for this set imo. The issue beeing Garchomp can easely setup SR on Hippo could easely be fixed with a 6th mon.

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Hippowdon (+Def) : 44,52% - 52,86% (3 hits to KO)
 
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