Counter That Pokemon! Won By FlareBlitz (Team 2)

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brewfasa

Formerly fatty
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Hitmontop (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Mach Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Aerial Ace
- Rapid Spin

well, with two sr weak mons on team 2 and a fast rocker already on team 1, i think it's obvious that we need a spinner. with that said, our choices are fairly limited if we want a spinner that has good synergy with the rest of the team, because frankly, most spinners suck. nonetheless, after looking through all the spinners available, i think i've narrowed the choice down to hitmontop being the best option. first of all, hitmontop provides team 2 with a crucial rock resistance just in case team 1 decides to capitalize on the massive rock weakness that team 2 has. secondly, something that hitmontop almost exclusively has access to is it's ability to deal with more offensively oriented teams like team 1 with the use of technician + priority. with technitop in the wings, team 2 now has a reliable check to omastar in case it gets the chance to set up, and also has a way of revenging azelf / houndoom if need be. lastly, the set i chose is actually pretty hard to switch into for team 1. houndoom and omastar can't take a mach punch, azelf has to use soak-and-run tactic because it can't take a sucker punch, and roserade and heracross both are ohko'd by a technician boosted aerial ace. i chose expert belt because i've never liked the loss of health that traditional technitop had to deal with when using lo, but i also wanted to keep a fair amount of power to make it harder for team 1 to deal with hitmontop.
 
so i have a pretty good idea for a last partner but ive come up with a pretty solid counter to azelf, houndoom, and heracross

Gligar (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
- Roost

azelf life orb psychic vs gligar: 349 Atk vs 376 Def & 334 HP (90 Base Power): 118 - 139 (35.33% - 41.62%)

heracross +2 stone edge vs gligar: 698 Atk vs 390 Def & 334 HP (100 Base Power): 129 - 152 (38.62% - 45.51%)

houndooms life orb fire blast vs gligar: 257 Atk vs 376 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 115 - 136 (34.43% - 40.72%)

gligars u-turn vs azelf: 186 Atk vs 176 Def & 291 HP (70 Base Power): 108 - 128 (37.11% - 43.99%)

i think the numbers show it - crobat + gligar can completely decimate the opposing team and looking ahead, we can simply cover omastar in slot 6 (its still a big threat)
 
I think we should deal with Omastar now and round off the team with slot 6. What if there is another threat that we can't handle on the other team?

I'm going to try this one again:

Primeape @ Choice Scarf
VITAL SPIRIT
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Fire Punch (the off chance Heracross and Roserade are the last two mons)
- Stone Edge

Ok, well since the addition of Azelf, Primeape becomes even more usable because of its fast U-turn and threat of Zoroark. Zoroark can fake as Primeape and literally annihilate any Pokemon switching in. Additionally and most importantly, Primeape deals with Omastar who we simply cannot put off for much longer. An excellent perk to using Primeape is vital spirit which is really one of the only viable ways of counter Sleep Powder. If we pick anything too defensive here, we'll get stomped by Heracross and Roserade. Let's think about the best possible defensive Pokemon for the 6th slot, or offensive w/ Stealth Rock. Roserade / Heracross bait = bad.
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Guys...we do need stealth rock on this team. I like kd24's set but I feel like it leaves us way too open to water-types, who are already a big problem - relying on our final pokemon to counter omastar (and other possible offensive water types) by itself is a bad, bad idea.

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Calm
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD

-Stealth Rock
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Roar

Checks Azelf, Houndoom, Roserade, and most importantly, Omastar (+2 HP Electric does not ohko while Surf cleanly does). Empoleon gives us a great fall-back in case our primary counters to these Pokemon die, and also sets up SR, leaving our final slot open to deal with any major threats the other team can put together in the final slot (like Scarf Chandelure or SD Kabutops...)
 
Can we get an explanation for those EVs? do the 100 SpA evs guarantee the OHKO on -1 Omastar or something? Cuz otherwise I prefer 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Can we get an explanation for those EVs? do the 100 SpA evs guarantee the OHKO on -1 Omastar or something? Cuz otherwise I prefer 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Yeah, 100 SpA EVs are required to guarantee an ohko on Omastar after either Stealth Rock or one round of LO damage at -1. They also ensure that surf -> ice beam kills Roserade most of the time, which I thought was pretty important.

Actually, I would be open to dropping them down, since even if Omastar gets a low damage roll it will just kill itself in the next turn...
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
because the extra power allows us to ohko omastar, im guessing
That. We would need around 176 SpA EVs in order to get Scald to ohko Omastar after SR and one round of LO damage or two rounds of LO damage, which is pretty excessive. More relevantly, there's nothing on the opposing team we want to burn, and we REALLY don't want to burn Heracross....
 
Omastar really does need to be dealt with now. As Heysup said, it could be dangerous to put it off because they might introduce a new sweeping threat with their last mon.


Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- U-turn

Flygon allows us to not only revenge Omastar, but also keep up the pressure on their team and threaten a sweep. They have no Steels, so Flygon is perfect here to not be locked into a resisted move after coming in to revenge Omastar. As it stands, he has the ability to pretty much cleanly sweep Team 1 with Outrage, forcing them to run either a Steel or a heavily physically defensive mon to truly be safe, neither of which fits their team build.

I could lower speed EVs to 172, which is all we need for Omastar, but I feel that would be an invite for a Scarf Flygon of their own. Plus I doubt the bulk difference is that big of a deal. Unfortunately, Adamant Scarf Flygon never outspeeds Timid Omastar after a Shell Smash, so Jolly is a must. Dragon Claw is put there over the standard Stone Edge so that we can avoid being locked into Outrage when we need to, preventing them from using an offensive mon like Mamoswine for easy insurance against an Outrage sweep. Despite this, I am considering changing it out for Aerial Ace, which gives us extra insurance against Heracross (even though Outrage does a lot to him anyway). Frankly I'm not too worried about Heracross, as we have a number of mons that outspeed and OHKO. I'm not really sure why he won the vote in the first place... Anyways, let me know if you think it's a good idea.


For the hell of it, I've decided add some calcs to show you how much damage Flygon does to Team 1. All calcs are done assuming the sets the opposing team uses:

Outrage vs Roserade: 101.5% - 119.5% (OHKO)
Outrage vs Heracross: 67.2% - 79.1% (2HKO)
Outrage vs Azelf: 75.9% - 89.3% (2HKO)
Outrage vs Houdoom: 97.9% - 115.1% (Likely OHKO)
Outrage vs Omastar: 48.4% - 57.3% (Likely 2HKO)

Outrage vs -1 Omastar: 72.2% - 85.1%
Earthquake vs -1 Omastar: 121.0% - 142.3%

Azelf's Psychic vs Flygon: 74.8% - 88.1%
Heracross's Close Combat or Megahorn vs Flygon: 76.5% - 90.1%

The main task, revenging Omastar, is accomplished fairly neatly. EQ takes her out even at full health, and Outrage can get the job done if she's sufficiently weakened. As for sweeping, nothing can switch into Flygon's Outrage because everything is 2HKOed at least, while Roserade and Houndoom are flat-out killed. And neither a very healthy Heracross nor a very healthy Azelf are able to sacrifice themselves to end Flygon's sweep, as they don't OHKO through Flygon's solid defenses. As it stands, once we wear down Azelf, Omastar, and Heracross a little with all our switcher-moves, Flygon acheives a very neat sweep of their entire team.
 
I'm gonna throw this out there because not only is it unorthodox but it's extremely effective (ask the guy who popularized this for how good it is).

Rose Red (Roserade) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Very basic Roserade that takes advantage not only of better sleep mechanics in BW, but also revenge kills everything that gives the team trouble. Sludge Bomb hits everything on team 1 for great damage bar Heracross, but we have multiple ways to handle that. Pretty cool Pokemon if I do say so myself.
 
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