Infernape is already fairly fast and enjoys the four move coverage much more. It also finds it difficult to set up due to its relative frailty. You're better off using the turn spent setting up to hit the switch-in hard with Close Combat or Fire Blast. Heatran runs a Flame Charge set much more effectively, having greater bulk and benefiting more from the speed boost.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)
- Thread starter sax king
- Start date
- Status
Infernape is already fairly fast and enjoys the four move coverage much more. It also finds it difficult to set up due to its relative frailty. You're better off using the turn spent setting up to hit the switch-in hard with Close Combat or Fire Blast. Heatran runs a Flame Charge set much more effectively, having greater bulk and benefiting more from the speed boost.
How about...
Deoxys-S @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
- Ice Beam / Shadow Ball
Deoxys comes in, threatens opponent out, now has about 440 SpA and 500 Speed, not to mention good special bulk. Could be a better late-game cleaner than the LO set since it has more attacking power, and it can boost fairly easily since the opponent will often fear hazards and do something pointless. :)
Deoxys-S @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
- Ice Beam / Shadow Ball
Deoxys comes in, threatens opponent out, now has about 440 SpA and 500 Speed, not to mention good special bulk. Could be a better late-game cleaner than the LO set since it has more attacking power, and it can boost fairly easily since the opponent will often fear hazards and do something pointless. :)
LO Deoxys-S usually feeds off of its unpredictability to score some KOs - Calm Mind would be a dead give-away. However, if LO Deoxys-S becomes more common, it would be a nice way to prevent the opponent from racking LO recoils by making fancy switches to Deoxys-S resists. With only 3 moveslots, it does run into coverage problems, though. You most definitely want Focus Blast, so that you don't get walled by Tyranitar, imo. Since its non-Psycho Boost STAB choices are so underwhelming, I may even use that slot for Shadow Ball / Ice Beam / HP Fire instead.
Yeah, I've been playing with this set and it's not easy for the opponent to work around. I've only really had problems with Scizor since it can Bullet Punch me before I can hit it with a +1 Focus Blast. I might get rid of Psyshock since Blissey doesn't come in on Deoxys anyways, but I think Psychic has as much merit here as it does on Calm Mind Jirachi, if not more since Deoxys resists Fighting attacks. :p
Started creating a team focused on Sun Dual Screens HO.
Ive been using this punching bag for my Screens user.
Meganium@Light Clay
252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold: (-Atk, +Def)
Trait: Leaf Guard
~Light Screen
~Reflect
~Rest
~Body Slam / Hidden Power[FIRE] / Sleep Powder
Now after Ninetales sets up the sun the next step is to set up my Screens with Meganium. Now I chose Meganium because... Fuck Deoxys. Meganium goes in and sets-up as my opponent laughs at me for using this p.o.s.. Now dont let all of your bias opinions fool you, with reflect Meganium takes only 40% from CB Scizor then rests of the damage or sets up his next screen.
Evs are straight forward, Maximize Defenses to take U-turns from Scizor. Leaf Guard is the best ability as it lets Meganium to completely heal itself and wake up in the same turn. The final move I've been playing around with, Body Slam helps spread paralysis for my amazing sweepers and not become taunt bait. Hidden Power allows me to combat Scizor who is a real nuisance to my team (even though its a sun team). And Sleep Powder makes a counter become a set-up fodder.
Ive been using this punching bag for my Screens user.
Meganium@Light Clay
252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold: (-Atk, +Def)
Trait: Leaf Guard
~Light Screen
~Reflect
~Rest
~Body Slam / Hidden Power[FIRE] / Sleep Powder
Now after Ninetales sets up the sun the next step is to set up my Screens with Meganium. Now I chose Meganium because... Fuck Deoxys. Meganium goes in and sets-up as my opponent laughs at me for using this p.o.s.. Now dont let all of your bias opinions fool you, with reflect Meganium takes only 40% from CB Scizor then rests of the damage or sets up his next screen.
Evs are straight forward, Maximize Defenses to take U-turns from Scizor. Leaf Guard is the best ability as it lets Meganium to completely heal itself and wake up in the same turn. The final move I've been playing around with, Body Slam helps spread paralysis for my amazing sweepers and not become taunt bait. Hidden Power allows me to combat Scizor who is a real nuisance to my team (even though its a sun team). And Sleep Powder makes a counter become a set-up fodder.
According to Bulbapedia, Leaf Guard in Generation Five now prevents Rest. I guess you can use Synthesis instead.
Strangely enough, Meganium doesn't learn Sleep Powder.
A bigger concern would be how Meganium is both slow, hence Taunt bait, and relatively harmless offensively. It does have Bulk though, so that's a plus.
I'd rather use Celebi tbh. It resists Fighting, can heal with Rest just by switching out (or better yet, use Recover) and can use either U-Turn or a powerful Leaf Storm in the last slot. It also has greater physical bulk, although it doesn't deal with Scizor as effectively. And it's not dependent on Sun.
Seeing as Gliscor is one of the main Terrakion checks, I've come up with a gimmick set of sorts.
Terrakion@Expert Belt
Naive Nature (+Spe -Spdef)
172 Atk/80 Sp Atk/252Spe
Moveset:
Stone Edge
Close Combat
Earthquake
HP [Ice]
At one look, I can understand why one would be thinking what the fuck bro, but gimmicks are fun. If you play your expert belt correctly you can bluff the choice item, and the opponent sends in his Gliscoe to check you, only to get pounded by a HP ice.
Terrakion@Expert Belt
Naive Nature (+Spe -Spdef)
172 Atk/80 Sp Atk/252Spe
Moveset:
Stone Edge
Close Combat
Earthquake
HP [Ice]
At one look, I can understand why one would be thinking what the fuck bro, but gimmicks are fun. If you play your expert belt correctly you can bluff the choice item, and the opponent sends in his Gliscoe to check you, only to get pounded by a HP ice.
I have tried HP Ice on him long time ago. There were a few problems we have faced: It's fairly hard to OHKO a Gliscor (although he kills Landoruses most of the time). First, you have to deal prior damage with Stone Edge as Close Combat won't get him in KO range; having good prediction and some luck is invaluable for him. Second, A lot of defensive Gliscors run Protect to heal themself. As a nifty side effect, they keep this Terrakion checked.
You may consider Life Orb, because the additional power allows you to OHKO Landorus most of the time after SR damage. Additionally It deals more damage to switchins who resists his STABs.
The little i've been playing in this gen i've fallen in love with this. Can some one rate this, I have no idea its out classed by anyother poke
Azelf@Leftovers
Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk)
4hp/252 Sp Atk/252Spe
Substitute
Psychic
Flamethrower
Energy Ball
Becuase of its natural bulk it can take few weak hits, come in on a wall esp ferrothorn they continue to set up spikes sub up and blast him in the face with a flamethrower, the other moves are to hit the next pokemon in and with sub it gives it two turns to KO assuming its slower. ideas?
Azelf@Leftovers
Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk)
4hp/252 Sp Atk/252Spe
Substitute
Psychic
Flamethrower
Energy Ball
Becuase of its natural bulk it can take few weak hits, come in on a wall esp ferrothorn they continue to set up spikes sub up and blast him in the face with a flamethrower, the other moves are to hit the next pokemon in and with sub it gives it two turns to KO assuming its slower. ideas?
Subs are splashable on almost any attacker. The main problem is that Azelf heavily competetes with Alakazam, who, while not being immune to ground moves, has Magic Guard, more speed, more power, and a Focus Blast to make him not being completely vulnerable to Tyranitar. The selling points of special Azelf still is Flamethrower (which can be replaced with HP Fire) and Thunderbolt.
I personally would use Psyshock in this set (beats Volcarona) and replace Energy Ball with HP Ice, since there are many thing with ice weaknesses running around; the lack of Focus Blast is noticeable, though.
It has some nifty niches on the physical side: Azels is still the fastest Boomer, you may try something like this:
Jolly (+Spe -SAtk)
252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Normal Gem or Flying Gem / Sitrus Berry
- Substitute
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch/Acrobatics
- Explosion
Haven't tested it jet, but sound fun on the paper. It's still Tyranitar-fodder, though.
Edit: I haven't noticed it before: Never put the 4 EVs in HP when using substitute (unless you only have 30 IV on HP). With an even number of HP you can't utilize sub optimal - you cannot generate one when only have a quarter of your maximum HP while an odd number allows you to squeeze one more sub from your lifebar.
I personally would use Psyshock in this set (beats Volcarona) and replace Energy Ball with HP Ice, since there are many thing with ice weaknesses running around; the lack of Focus Blast is noticeable, though.
It has some nifty niches on the physical side: Azels is still the fastest Boomer, you may try something like this:
Jolly (+Spe -SAtk)
252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Normal Gem or Flying Gem / Sitrus Berry
- Substitute
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch/Acrobatics
- Explosion
Haven't tested it jet, but sound fun on the paper. It's still Tyranitar-fodder, though.
Edit: I haven't noticed it before: Never put the 4 EVs in HP when using substitute (unless you only have 30 IV on HP). With an even number of HP you can't utilize sub optimal - you cannot generate one when only have a quarter of your maximum HP while an odd number allows you to squeeze one more sub from your lifebar.
Is Expert Belt taken into consideration here, or did you use Choice Band?
Lucario @ Life Orb
Trait: Steadfast/ Inner Focus/ Justified
EVs: 252 Att / 32 Sp.Att / 220 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -Sp.Def)
- Agility
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Hidden Power - ICE
Late game sweeper set. 220 speeds in EVs allows Lucario to outrun neutral nature base 85 Pokemon before set up and a positive nature Landorus/Terrakion after set up. Lucario then has 100% chance to OHKO Terrakion with CC and Landorus with Hidden Power Ice. Lucario also gets a clean OHKO on Salamence, Gliscor and Gengar, but sadly by a small margin misses out on the definite OHKO against Starmie and Latios. You'll need to be careful about priority because he's frail but overall Lucario has the stats and the coverage to easily sweep under the right circumstances.
The advantage of this set over the SD set is that Lucario is now able to outrun and OHKO most of it's common checks ;P
Trait: Steadfast/ Inner Focus/ Justified
EVs: 252 Att / 32 Sp.Att / 220 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -Sp.Def)
- Agility
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Hidden Power - ICE
Late game sweeper set. 220 speeds in EVs allows Lucario to outrun neutral nature base 85 Pokemon before set up and a positive nature Landorus/Terrakion after set up. Lucario then has 100% chance to OHKO Terrakion with CC and Landorus with Hidden Power Ice. Lucario also gets a clean OHKO on Salamence, Gliscor and Gengar, but sadly by a small margin misses out on the definite OHKO against Starmie and Latios. You'll need to be careful about priority because he's frail but overall Lucario has the stats and the coverage to easily sweep under the right circumstances.
The advantage of this set over the SD set is that Lucario is now able to outrun and OHKO most of it's common checks ;P
Rhyperior is still in this!
Rhyperior @ Chople Berry
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch
I'm just going to let to the calcs talk. Bear in mind that all of these attacks are SUPER EFFECTIVE against Rhyperior.
+2 Jolly LO Mienshao Hi-Jump-Kick: 55.52 - 65.43%
+2 Jolly LO Terrakion Close Combat: 52.53 - 61.75%
+2 Adamant LO Lucario Close Combat: 51.38 - 60.82%
+2 Jolly LO Infernape Close Combat: 45.16 - 53.22%
The defense EVs are probably overkill, but this thing might be one of the best Fighting type lures in the game. Opponent comes in on your Tyranitar, boosts as they force a switch, and attack your Rhyperior only to do peanuts as they get OHKO'd (Attack EVs required for Mienshao) Requires prediction but it looks like it might be pretty satisfying to pull off. Rock Blast also OHKOs Dragonite through Multiscale if it hits three or more times, whilst Dragonite can't OHKO you without special attacks or a +5 Outrage.
I'm going to test this and report back, it could work well on Sand and Sun teams.
Rhyperior @ Chople Berry
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch
I'm just going to let to the calcs talk. Bear in mind that all of these attacks are SUPER EFFECTIVE against Rhyperior.
+2 Jolly LO Mienshao Hi-Jump-Kick: 55.52 - 65.43%
+2 Jolly LO Terrakion Close Combat: 52.53 - 61.75%
+2 Adamant LO Lucario Close Combat: 51.38 - 60.82%
+2 Jolly LO Infernape Close Combat: 45.16 - 53.22%
The defense EVs are probably overkill, but this thing might be one of the best Fighting type lures in the game. Opponent comes in on your Tyranitar, boosts as they force a switch, and attack your Rhyperior only to do peanuts as they get OHKO'd (Attack EVs required for Mienshao) Requires prediction but it looks like it might be pretty satisfying to pull off. Rock Blast also OHKOs Dragonite through Multiscale if it hits three or more times, whilst Dragonite can't OHKO you without special attacks or a +5 Outrage.
I'm going to test this and report back, it could work well on Sand and Sun teams.
If you're using it as a lure, you don't want them to be getting a +2 hopefully (by the way, watch out for potential Grass Knots from a mixed Infernape who'll murder you). Since you shouldn't really be switching in, Chople Berry isn't needed (and if you switch into a fighting attack, they're still going to heavily damage you and if you're weakened can still attempt for a 2 hit ko). Chople Berry doesn't seem all that great since if they're going to get a +2 boost, you're better sending in priority or very strong bulky ghosts instead of tanking +2 Close Combat/Hi Jump Kick. Or something that can outrun them and can ko. If you want a water berry in sun/sand can take even the strongest water moves if needed to finish off frailer waters.
Also, Avalance over Ice Punch or use Fire Punch. Unless in Trick Room or the opponent's paralyzed, Rhyperior is very slow and the negative priority doesn't matter. Avalance would double in power to 120 taking a hit and will severly damage dragons way more than Ice Punch.
Here's a gimmick set that can catch a lot of teams unprepared:
Cloyster @ Choice Scarf
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpDef
Jolly / Skill Link
Icicle Spear
Rock Blast
Razor Shell
Explosion/Rapid Spin
It gets the jump on a lot of Pokémon that expect it to set up and has good enough offensive power that it can KO opponents that expect it to run in terror like Starmie/Azelf/Raikou. It is a safe revenger of DDNite/Mence/Haxorus/Gyarados/etc. and shuts down annoying threats that abuse Substitute like Gengar, SubCM Latias, etc. It gets walled by steel-types and bulky waters, but the element of surprise can help you muscle through those offensive threats that can trouble your team, gengar in particular. Jolly is needed to outspeed everything below base 130 speed. It can also fill a utility spot by running Rapid Spin, since most people forget that Cloyster can spin.
Cloyster @ Choice Scarf
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpDef
Jolly / Skill Link
Icicle Spear
Rock Blast
Razor Shell
Explosion/Rapid Spin
It gets the jump on a lot of Pokémon that expect it to set up and has good enough offensive power that it can KO opponents that expect it to run in terror like Starmie/Azelf/Raikou. It is a safe revenger of DDNite/Mence/Haxorus/Gyarados/etc. and shuts down annoying threats that abuse Substitute like Gengar, SubCM Latias, etc. It gets walled by steel-types and bulky waters, but the element of surprise can help you muscle through those offensive threats that can trouble your team, gengar in particular. Jolly is needed to outspeed everything below base 130 speed. It can also fill a utility spot by running Rapid Spin, since most people forget that Cloyster can spin.
I just use a regular MixCario on the end of a smashpass or something, put in shadow ball, take out crunch for blaze kick, and LO/expert belt. with just LO and no boosts, lucario can OHKO all of its counters bar chansey, but she is OHKO'd with hazzards. CC is STAB and takes out blissey who thinks they can come in on you, especially if you bluff the special set. Blaze kick does better of cleaning ferro and venusaur in the sun, HP ice is for the obvious gliscor/dragonite, 2HKO'ing dragonite (With multiscale, OHKO if rocks) and OHKO's a 252/252 calm Gliscor. Shadow ball/drak pulse gives perfect coverage/takes out psychic types, although beware of CM reuniclus. Put this on the end of a smashpass and it's GG, bar priority.
Life orb, and Gliscor still won't die like planned unless you catch him with HP Ice twice (Stone Edge actually can be healed with Protect too easily). Well, there is only one thing helping, even if it hurts.
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 228 Atk / 24 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Work Up
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power Ice
Though, Work Up cannot be utilized by Terrakion like Virizion does, it actually CAN do the necessarily KOs with HP Ice: Landorus, Gliscor (252/0) and offensive Dragonite after Stealth Rock (0/0). +1 Still allows you to do enough damage to KO Latios with Stone Edge, can a probably KO on specially defensive Jirachi with a layer of Spikes and Close Combat.
There are some KOs you will miss with Work Up instead of Swords Dance: Reuniclus takes only 87% - 102.7% from Stone Edge. Assuming, it comes in a Close Combat and Stone Edge does not miss, it will probably not survive it. Jellicent is more of an issue because you never flawlessly OHKO it, while the SD one has a fair chance after SR damage.
The problem with that set is Work up is a dead give-away that the HP Ice is coming. HP Ice doesn't add much to Terrakion's Fight + Rock coverage anyways so you're better off with +2 attack, even againt physical walls.
Rock Gem is a better surprise imo. It bluffs a Choice set with cc and a +2 Rock Gem Stone Edge OHKO's Skarmory, Gliscor, and Slowbro with Stealth Rock taken into account.
Rock Gem is a better surprise imo. It bluffs a Choice set with cc and a +2 Rock Gem Stone Edge OHKO's Skarmory, Gliscor, and Slowbro with Stealth Rock taken into account.
I'm quite sure there was something about +2 SE just being like 1% weaker than a x4 HP Ice...
Hmmm. I'm going to test this before I make any judgement. It probably needs more Attack EVs, and when they're coming out of Defense the Chople Berry might be appreciated. It's a good last-resort measure considering stuff like Extremespeed fails against Terrakion and Lucario, and Bullet Punch doesn't beat Infernape and Lucario. Plus Rhyperior makes a bad-ass physical Dragonite counter with Rock Blast breaking Multiscale so I think he has some potential in OU.
Also, duly noted about Avalanche, forgot he even had it. :p
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rain Dance
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock / Thunder
This set is meant to beat Tyranitar. It's also acts as a back up rain inducer to Politoed. It's really simple. Predict Tyranitar, set up Rain then scare him out to rack up residual damage or just KO with Surf. Unfortunatley this set still losses to Scarftar :(
252SpAtk Life Orb Latios (Neutral) Surf in Rain vs 252HP/76SpDef Tyranitar (+SpDef): 83% - 99% (338 - 400 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Clean OHKO on the standard Choice Band set).
All you need is a bit of residual damage on Ttar which shouldn't be to hard to get (especially in a weather war).
All you need is a bit of residual damage on Ttar which shouldn't be to hard to get (especially in a weather war).
I also tested a Sunny Day variant, but SolarBeam doesn't OHKO Tyranitar sadly.
- Status