You can't have rough skin and stealth rock I think.
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Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)
- Thread starter sax king
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Defensive Victini (yes, you heard right, a defensive Victini)
Victini @ Leftovers
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 240 HP / 132 Def / 40 SAtk / 96 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Light Screen
- Fire Blast
- Toxic
I'm not quite sure why I keep trying to make Fire Pokes defensive but things like Victini with 100 Defenses across the board seem promising but the really selling part is the accuracy boosts to Will-O-Wisp, Fire Blast, and Toxic which become 85, 95, and 100 (apparently Toxic was changed from 85 to 90% accurate) respectively. While Victini is seen generally more as an offensive force, especially when it gets V-Generate, it isn't so terrible defensively either for a surprise. Will-O-Wisp cuts things like Tyranitar's and Scizor's attacks as well as resisting Roopushin's main fighting move although watch out for Stone Edge. However, most Roopushin wouldn't try to fight against Victini due to stab super-effective Psychic and most Victini's are offensive. Light Screen cuts special attacks down in half from water and ghost. Fire Blast and Toxic pair together well since Fire Blast roasts all but one steel that would be immune to Toxic and is stabbed and very accurate while Toxic hits waters and other things for ever-increasing poison damage.
Gliscor, Tentacruel, Roopushin (once finding out Victini does not have Psychic) and Heatran can put this in some pretty dangerous trouble however. So can Stealth Rock if it's out and Victini doesn't have the greatest set of weaknesses to pay around being weak to Rock, Ground, Water, Dark, Ghost. Also, despite Fire Blast being stabbed, it doesn't do all that much without the investment so anything fairly bulky and with good special defense can take it. It mainly relies on surprise although it isn't so bad at being bulky and spreading Burns and Toxic.
Victini @ Leftovers
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 240 HP / 132 Def / 40 SAtk / 96 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Light Screen
- Fire Blast
- Toxic
I'm not quite sure why I keep trying to make Fire Pokes defensive but things like Victini with 100 Defenses across the board seem promising but the really selling part is the accuracy boosts to Will-O-Wisp, Fire Blast, and Toxic which become 85, 95, and 100 (apparently Toxic was changed from 85 to 90% accurate) respectively. While Victini is seen generally more as an offensive force, especially when it gets V-Generate, it isn't so terrible defensively either for a surprise. Will-O-Wisp cuts things like Tyranitar's and Scizor's attacks as well as resisting Roopushin's main fighting move although watch out for Stone Edge. However, most Roopushin wouldn't try to fight against Victini due to stab super-effective Psychic and most Victini's are offensive. Light Screen cuts special attacks down in half from water and ghost. Fire Blast and Toxic pair together well since Fire Blast roasts all but one steel that would be immune to Toxic and is stabbed and very accurate while Toxic hits waters and other things for ever-increasing poison damage.
Gliscor, Tentacruel, Roopushin (once finding out Victini does not have Psychic) and Heatran can put this in some pretty dangerous trouble however. So can Stealth Rock if it's out and Victini doesn't have the greatest set of weaknesses to pay around being weak to Rock, Ground, Water, Dark, Ghost. Also, despite Fire Blast being stabbed, it doesn't do all that much without the investment so anything fairly bulky and with good special defense can take it. It mainly relies on surprise although it isn't so bad at being bulky and spreading Burns and Toxic.
How does Mew do this worse? yeah yeah better accuracy I guess but Mew has a far nicer defensive typing... I.E. it can actually use W-o-w on +0 dories.
I never said Mew does it worse, in fact I love defensive Mew and think it is one of the best pokes ever. I was just practicing creativity and being silly with surprise sets. Although being good is debateable...it is creative and better than say Choice Specs Machamp.
Because no one would ever see this coming while you can somewhat semi-reliably expect it from Mew (but Mew screws people in so many ways it's ridiculous).
Victory Star is a 10% straight boost, not a 1.1 (rounded down).
Although I think this could work, it's outclassed by Heatran. Heatran has a better defensive typing and lacks 5 weaknesses, 3 of which are common. Heatran gets Flame Body in Dream World too, and combined with Lava Plume gets the opponent burned very quickly. Steel types that are immune to Toxic won't like to switch into Heatran and most Poison types are weak to Fire due to a secondary typing. Although Heatran misses out on Light Screen, its typing should make up for that. Heatran can also hit harder with a base 130 Special Attack.
Although I see that it is less expectable, you can't deny that fire-typing is a pretty shitty defensive typing in general. Most good Fire-types are sweepers (like Ulgamoth, Chanderaa, Darmanitan, etc.); only a few, like Heatran and similar pokemon, are any good at defense. Fire is naturally a sweepy type, as literally every fire type that exists bar Rotom gets Fire Blast and every single one gets Overheat. Weaknesses to the two most common weather types right now (Water and Ground/Rock) don't really help Fire's case as a defensive type either.
Ignore 4th gen UU Magcargo for my example
(oh and actually Victory Star=Wide Lens as an ability; it's not a flat boost)
Very true. Fire types as a whole are pretty meh usually in the defense barring Heatran and Ulgamoth and sometimes Shandera and Rotom-H (and Ulgamoth gets away with it because it is such a fearsome sweeper with Butterfly Dance who gets speed/special attack/special defense which is just impressive).
Wasn't it confirmed that Victory Star was a flat 10% boost, not a Wide Lens? It is getting confusing on which it is. A 10% flat boost increase is actually better than a 1.1 after all. Like 70-80 instead of 70-77 for example.
In UU last Gen when FWG cores became popular, Arcanine or Moltres made up the F of said core. Their horrid SR weakness obviously didn't completely break their defensive abilities due to their useful resists, as Leggs says. It's mostly that Heatran and possibly Shandy/Ulgamoth outclass them in OU and the general environment leans towards rewarding offensive Fires rather than defensive.
Pretty much spot on. We cant really do much to reward bulky fire types, unless their names are Heatran. Even the fire type pokemon who are neutral to stealth rock are actually still sweepers (ie infernape, blaziken, etc).
Arcanine can still work as a semi bulky fire type, especially with intimidate and his decent bulk and the use of moon light.
Yeah, Heatran's mass of resists just pretty much make using anything else as a defensive Fire (bar Shandy for the Immunities) a bad idea.
Arcanine is a very balanced fire in terms of stats and moves. It isn't quite bulky enough to wall, nor fast enough to sweep. It's coverage is excellent, however, and Extremespeed is awesome. Morning Sun is really only viable if you run Sunny Day, however, due to the commonality of other weather, and when running Sun Flash Fire becomes a very attractive ability for the Fire immunity and power boost.
That Victini set can't work in its current form. The weaknesses will just destroy it.
The way I see it, though, the good defenses, speed and accuracy can still make a decent defensive set, using the moves Substitute, Will-o-wisp, Light Screen / Reflect and Fire Blast, with the Screen, nature and EV's dependant on whether your team needs help with physical or special threats. In this case Substitute is really crucial.
The way I see it, though, the good defenses, speed and accuracy can still make a decent defensive set, using the moves Substitute, Will-o-wisp, Light Screen / Reflect and Fire Blast, with the Screen, nature and EV's dependant on whether your team needs help with physical or special threats. In this case Substitute is really crucial.
^
While that would work it would still be inferior to Mew, Rotom-W, etc.
While that would work it would still be inferior to Mew, Rotom-W, etc.
ivebeen running in lc a mixed kojufuu but only ran it 4 2 days so i cant remember much on it
kojofuu
item life orb
ability regeration
evs 128 atk/128 spA/252 speed
nature bashful(neutral nature is better for this set
aura sphere
hjk
hidden power dark/ice
stone edge/payback
it isnt too good so far might start running with leftovers instead of life orb
kojofuu
item life orb
ability regeration
evs 128 atk/128 spA/252 speed
nature bashful(neutral nature is better for this set
aura sphere
hjk
hidden power dark/ice
stone edge/payback
it isnt too good so far might start running with leftovers instead of life orb
Why would you run a neutral nature? Or Hidden Power Dark?...or Payback, especially with all the Speed EVs. And I'm not sure those EVs are proper either (I don't play LC). >>
my most sucsesful move set is my custom bulk up nageki
nageki
item leftovers
nature adamant
ability:guts
ev's 252 hp/252 atk/4 def
bulk up
payback
stone edge
mountain storm
now some of you might ask why mountain storm simple its always crit so it by passes i think defense boost and it hits harder then overhead throw
nageki
item leftovers
nature adamant
ability:guts
ev's 252 hp/252 atk/4 def
bulk up
payback
stone edge
mountain storm
now some of you might ask why mountain storm simple its always crit so it by passes i think defense boost and it hits harder then overhead throw
its just a random idea that i came up with and hp dark to replace payback and im thinking of giving it shadow ball instead something like
aura sphere
shadow ball
hp ice
stone edge
another set i made is a bulk zuru with d dance attacks
zuruzukin
item lifeorb/leftovers
ability:overcofidence
252 atk 252 spD 4 spe
bulk up
ice punch
drain punch
crunch
zuruzukin
item lifeorb/leftovers
ability:overcofidence
252 atk 252 spD 4 spe
bulk up
ice punch
drain punch
crunch
gets beat by way to many things i dont find it good
and yes i have yet another set which makes for an all out offensive spore breloom (like any otherbreloom exsists)
breloom
item toxic orb
ability poison heal
evs 252 atk/ 252 spe/4 hp
spore
focus punch
seed bomb
superpower
super power is for quick kill or if sleep clause is on its takes the place of focus punch
breloom
item toxic orb
ability poison heal
evs 252 atk/ 252 spe/4 hp
spore
focus punch
seed bomb
superpower
super power is for quick kill or if sleep clause is on its takes the place of focus punch
Victini doesn't mind if the Burn is Magic-Coated or Synchronized back at it. Also, Fire Blast is a much better STAB than say Psychic. I just wish, Victy could heal itself!
I don't much see the point of that set, or any major difference from the regular SubPuncher, unless you can point out things Breloom outspeeds and OHKOes with Superpower.
Plus no nature?
How about...
Timid Heatran @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Flash Fire
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Substitute / Hidden Power Electric
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Toxic / Nitro Charge
Toxic is a major annoyance to bulky waters that switch in, while substitute lets it get hits in on pokes that it can't outspeed and OHKO.
Nitro Charge with HP Electric, on the other hand, is a threat many teams are unprepared for. I've 6-0'd quite a few with this set.
I'm not entirely sure about exactly how creative this is, but there isn't one like it onsite as far as I know.
These sets are either not creative or they're terrible :/
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