It loses access to Thick Club upon cross evolution though
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Cross Evolution (now with Viability Rankings!)
- Thread starter dsm77773
- Start date
Oh, it does? Phew. Do marowak cross-evolvers gain thick club?
bp scrub
rub a dub dub one scrub in a tub
Gallade:
Pupitar
100 / 174 / 100 / 65 / 130 / 81
Solid Rock + Fighting stab allows it to hit most mons for neutral damage, decent 100/100/130 bulk lets it set up.
Shelgon
95 / 185 / 130 / 60 / 110 / 80
Similar to Dragonair, except it loses Espeed and some special bulk while gaining a ton of phys bulk and a little more attack
Vigoroth
110 / 170 / 110 / 55 / 115 / 120
It loses out on Dragon Dance, but 120 speed is more than enough for Swords Dance. Return + Close Combat have perfect neutral coverage bar ghost types, but thats ok because those are hit super effectively by Knock Off.
Pupitar
100 / 174 / 100 / 65 / 130 / 81
Solid Rock + Fighting stab allows it to hit most mons for neutral damage, decent 100/100/130 bulk lets it set up.
Shelgon
95 / 185 / 130 / 60 / 110 / 80
Similar to Dragonair, except it loses Espeed and some special bulk while gaining a ton of phys bulk and a little more attack
Vigoroth
110 / 170 / 110 / 55 / 115 / 120
It loses out on Dragon Dance, but 120 speed is more than enough for Swords Dance. Return + Close Combat have perfect neutral coverage bar ghost types, but thats ok because those are hit super effectively by Knock Off.
Cross-evolved Pokémon can't use Pokémon exclusive items, so no they can't.
Try to write the types as text instead of pictures. That way one can CTRL+F for types and is also a bit less stressful for the eye because the pictures of the types are kinda big.There has been a lot of analytical work done already, but I just wanted to drop a resource that I hope will be helpful:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S5-qLb-2PkiwhZGSQhaIPUdTLoyY_40UmRbe6M--G-g/edit?usp=sharing
It's a set of spreadsheets containing information (i.e., pretty much everything of value but movepool) on all cross evolutions and all cross evolvers. The stat changes for cross evolutions and base stats for cross evolvers are color coded based on the quartile beyond which they lie (red: minimum; orange: Q1; green: median; blue: Q3).
If there are any errors in any of the spreadsheets or any way to improve them, please let me know.
135/105/119/175/155/86 (BST=775. 5 points short of Mega Rayquaza)
Marvel Scale/Competitive/Cute Charm
Tangela arguably has a better distribution of stats than Misdreavus, but I like Ghost typing more than Grass typing.
Very bulky with insane Special Attack, useful Abilities, and a perfectly usable movepool. Just taking Milotic's Scald and Recover is pretty nasty.
Struggles with Chansey, but really I was just looking for the single most ridiculous BST achievable. This is for a Stage 1 to a Stage 2.
95/125/87/160/145/123 (BST=735)
Trace/Synchronize/Telepathy
This or Gallade are the highest BST choices. Gallade is probably the smarter choice, really, but this is the best possible Stage 2=>Stage 3 Special attacker in terms of having the highest BST.
Silly theorymonning, really.
This really is like MnM, but for regular evolution. It's glorious.
I'm a bit late on this particular topic, but I don't think a 600 BST cut-off is anything that should be done unless it becomes obvious that the meta is centralized around the Pokemon that are affected by that cut-off. Certainly not at this stage, where everything is theorymonning.
ponyta + hitmonlee = ponylee
65/170/73/65/140/142, Fire, Reckless
Wallbreaker/Sweeper: Flare Blitz/Hi Jump Kick/(Wild Charge/Sucker Punch/Knock Off)/(Wild Charge/Flame Charge/Hypnosis) @ Life Orb/Charcoal
fear the almighty power of reckless hi jump kick+reckless flare blitz+reckless wild charge coming off base 170 attack. those three moves, by the way, hit 9 types super effectively and are only resisted by, like, dragon/ghost and dragon/fairy. this is hopefully balanced by its wet-paper-bag physical bulk
Pikachuun can you code this please?
okay, since nobody to my recollection has done this yet I'll look at possible options for type combinations with very few prominent weaknesses (Water/Ground or Water/Flying, for instance) and abilities that nullify their main weakness (Sap Sipper and Motor Drive/Lightning Rod/Volt Absorb, respectively, in those cases):
Water/Ground with Sap Sipper:
Your best bet here is probably Marshtomp -> Goodra. Marshtomp has a solid stat spread (for a second-stage, anyway) of 70/85/70/60/70/50, and evolving it into Goodra elevates its stats to 92/110/87/87/107/70 and grants it a few useful moves such as Dragon Tail for phazing and Fire Punch/Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Thunder Punch/Thunderbolt/Thunder, and Power Whip for coverage. Unfortunately, while those base stats combined with its ability and typing would be great in standard play, it lags behind a bit in Evolutionary Cross, and its lack of reliable recovery and the potential for the existence of Grass-type Mold Breakers doesn't help its case much. It could probably pull off an effective Curse set should you so wish, however.
edit: Azumarill got unbanned so use that instead. its stat gains are 30/30/30/40/30/10 so Marshtomp's resulting stats will be 100/115/100/100/100/60
Bug/Steel with Flash Fire:
Unfortunately, there exist no Bug/Steel-types that are capable of evolution and no users of Flash Fire obtain a Bug- or Steel-type upon evolution. Sorry about that.
Grass/Steel with Flash Fire:
For a Grass/Steel Flash Fire user the only base you have to work with is Ferroseed, sporting a stat spread of 44/50/91/24/86/10. That's fine, though: Pokémon with Flash Fire tend to gain a lot of points in each of their stats upon evolution. The most prominent examples of this you'll be finding are Ninetales and Arcanine, which gain 35/35/35/31/35/35 and 35/40/35/30/30/35 respectively. These boost Ferroseed's stats to 79/85/126/55/121/45 and 79/90/126/54/116/45, respectively; you'll probably be better off using Ninetales presuming you don't need its ability to set sunlight automatically elsewhere on your team, but Arcanine is a solid bet too thanks to its greater Attack boost, better potential movepool, and access to Intimidate if you'd rather trade your immunity to Fire for decreased damage against physical attacks of other types. All in all, these boosts turn Ferroseed into a reliable hazard setter as well as a decent mixed wall; the only disadvantages compared to Ferrothorn are really the lack of Iron Barbs (you can still use Rocky Helmet if you so wish) and the reduced damage from Gyro Ball owing to having a higher Speed stat.
Fire/Ground with Water Absorb/Storm Drain:
Similar to Grass/Steel, Fire/Ground has only one evolvable option: Numel, with a stat distribution of 60/60/40/65/45/35. However, if you wish to evolve into Gastrodon (or Palpitoad, but Gastrodon is the superior option) you can turn any unevolved primary Fire-type into this. For Numel, your best bet is Quagsire thanks to its high, balanced boosts (40/40/40/40/40/20) and access to reliable recovery in Recover; for Gastrodon (35/35/20/35/20/5), your options are broader, but the only one that ends up with a stat total better than Numel -> Quagsire is Ponyta and even then, with a new stat distribution of 85/120/75/100/85/95 and a weakness to Earthquake, it's not quite the defensive force it wants to be. Still probably a good bet if you want to use Quagsire for its Unaware capabilites instead, however.
Water/Flying with Volt Absorb/Lightning Rod/Motor Drive:
You have two options for bases here (technically three but Wingull is garbage): Mantyke and Ducklett. Mantyke (45/20/50/60/120/50) has high Special Defense but low HP and lacks reliable recovery, while Ducklett (62/44/50/44/50/55) is balanced but weak overall. Your best option for both Lightning Rod and Motor Drive is probably Zebstrika, as it passes a balanced boost spread of 30/40/31/30/31/40; while the boost to Attack generally won't be very helpful, the others are very beneficial for both Ducklett and Mantyke. Alternatively, there's also Manectric (30/30/20/40/20/40) if you want to put a more offensive spin on things, but both Mantyke and Ducklett have weak offensive stats to start with and it's probably not advisable to drop the defense boosts. Your only option for Volt Absorb that doesn't change your type upon evolution is Lanturn (50/20/20/20/20/0), and while it provides a solid boost to HP its other boosts are lacking.
Electric or Poison/Dark with Levitate:
Any pure Electric-type (or Stunky) that can potentially evolve is an option for you here, so I don't feel the need to go into great detail for each separate combination. However, here are some of your best bets:
Electabuzz (65/83/57/95/85/105) -> Flygon (+30/+30/+30/+30/+30/+30; 95/113/87/125/115/135): Essentially a directly improved Electabuzz sporting an immunity to (non-Mold Breaker) Ground moves. Evolving into Flygon grants it access to useful offensive moves like Fire Blast, Earth Power, and Boomburst, and it even has access to Roost through Flygon now. Likely an effective user of Choice Specs or Choice Scarf due to its stat distribution, but it can also capitalize on its lack of weaknesses and improved bulk to be an effective pivot (potentially with Defog, no less). Overall, it's a good bet for an Electric-type Levitator.
Electabuzz -> Hydreigon (+20/+20/+20/+60/+20/40; 85/103/77/155/105/145): Similar to Flygon in that it also provides an 180 BST boost total, but Hydreigon sacrifices stat gains from Attack and bulk to make the user an all-out special attacker. Naturally, this turns Electabuzz's already solid special-offensive stats into stats that are comparable to some of the best in the tier, but reduce its versatility as a result of the loss in its other stats. Hydreigon's movepool is of similar depth to Flygon's, so you don't lose much in that way, but its stats emphasize its potential as a Specs user (or Life Orb, if you don't like being locked into one move). This is also one of your best bets for Electric-type Levitators.
I couldn't find anything else that comes close to matching Electabuzz -> Flygon and Electabuzz -> Hydreigon, but here are some honorable mentions:
Stunky (63/63/47/41/41/74) -> Bronzong (+10/+65/+30/+55/+30/+10) or Claydol (+20/+30/+50/+30/+50/+20); 73/128/77/96/71/84 and 83/93/97/71/91/94 respectively
(Mygavolt did Dry Skin so I won't add it to this post, if that's alright)
Water/Ground with Sap Sipper:
Your best bet here is probably Marshtomp -> Goodra. Marshtomp has a solid stat spread (for a second-stage, anyway) of 70/85/70/60/70/50, and evolving it into Goodra elevates its stats to 92/110/87/87/107/70 and grants it a few useful moves such as Dragon Tail for phazing and Fire Punch/Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Thunder Punch/Thunderbolt/Thunder, and Power Whip for coverage. Unfortunately, while those base stats combined with its ability and typing would be great in standard play, it lags behind a bit in Evolutionary Cross, and its lack of reliable recovery and the potential for the existence of Grass-type Mold Breakers doesn't help its case much. It could probably pull off an effective Curse set should you so wish, however.
edit: Azumarill got unbanned so use that instead. its stat gains are 30/30/30/40/30/10 so Marshtomp's resulting stats will be 100/115/100/100/100/60
Bug/Steel with Flash Fire:
Unfortunately, there exist no Bug/Steel-types that are capable of evolution and no users of Flash Fire obtain a Bug- or Steel-type upon evolution. Sorry about that.
Grass/Steel with Flash Fire:
For a Grass/Steel Flash Fire user the only base you have to work with is Ferroseed, sporting a stat spread of 44/50/91/24/86/10. That's fine, though: Pokémon with Flash Fire tend to gain a lot of points in each of their stats upon evolution. The most prominent examples of this you'll be finding are Ninetales and Arcanine, which gain 35/35/35/31/35/35 and 35/40/35/30/30/35 respectively. These boost Ferroseed's stats to 79/85/126/55/121/45 and 79/90/126/54/116/45, respectively; you'll probably be better off using Ninetales presuming you don't need its ability to set sunlight automatically elsewhere on your team, but Arcanine is a solid bet too thanks to its greater Attack boost, better potential movepool, and access to Intimidate if you'd rather trade your immunity to Fire for decreased damage against physical attacks of other types. All in all, these boosts turn Ferroseed into a reliable hazard setter as well as a decent mixed wall; the only disadvantages compared to Ferrothorn are really the lack of Iron Barbs (you can still use Rocky Helmet if you so wish) and the reduced damage from Gyro Ball owing to having a higher Speed stat.
Fire/Ground with Water Absorb/Storm Drain:
Similar to Grass/Steel, Fire/Ground has only one evolvable option: Numel, with a stat distribution of 60/60/40/65/45/35. However, if you wish to evolve into Gastrodon (or Palpitoad, but Gastrodon is the superior option) you can turn any unevolved primary Fire-type into this. For Numel, your best bet is Quagsire thanks to its high, balanced boosts (40/40/40/40/40/20) and access to reliable recovery in Recover; for Gastrodon (35/35/20/35/20/5), your options are broader, but the only one that ends up with a stat total better than Numel -> Quagsire is Ponyta and even then, with a new stat distribution of 85/120/75/100/85/95 and a weakness to Earthquake, it's not quite the defensive force it wants to be. Still probably a good bet if you want to use Quagsire for its Unaware capabilites instead, however.
Water/Flying with Volt Absorb/Lightning Rod/Motor Drive:
You have two options for bases here (technically three but Wingull is garbage): Mantyke and Ducklett. Mantyke (45/20/50/60/120/50) has high Special Defense but low HP and lacks reliable recovery, while Ducklett (62/44/50/44/50/55) is balanced but weak overall. Your best option for both Lightning Rod and Motor Drive is probably Zebstrika, as it passes a balanced boost spread of 30/40/31/30/31/40; while the boost to Attack generally won't be very helpful, the others are very beneficial for both Ducklett and Mantyke. Alternatively, there's also Manectric (30/30/20/40/20/40) if you want to put a more offensive spin on things, but both Mantyke and Ducklett have weak offensive stats to start with and it's probably not advisable to drop the defense boosts. Your only option for Volt Absorb that doesn't change your type upon evolution is Lanturn (50/20/20/20/20/0), and while it provides a solid boost to HP its other boosts are lacking.
Electric or Poison/Dark with Levitate:
Any pure Electric-type (or Stunky) that can potentially evolve is an option for you here, so I don't feel the need to go into great detail for each separate combination. However, here are some of your best bets:
Electabuzz (65/83/57/95/85/105) -> Flygon (+30/+30/+30/+30/+30/+30; 95/113/87/125/115/135): Essentially a directly improved Electabuzz sporting an immunity to (non-Mold Breaker) Ground moves. Evolving into Flygon grants it access to useful offensive moves like Fire Blast, Earth Power, and Boomburst, and it even has access to Roost through Flygon now. Likely an effective user of Choice Specs or Choice Scarf due to its stat distribution, but it can also capitalize on its lack of weaknesses and improved bulk to be an effective pivot (potentially with Defog, no less). Overall, it's a good bet for an Electric-type Levitator.
Electabuzz -> Hydreigon (+20/+20/+20/+60/+20/40; 85/103/77/155/105/145): Similar to Flygon in that it also provides an 180 BST boost total, but Hydreigon sacrifices stat gains from Attack and bulk to make the user an all-out special attacker. Naturally, this turns Electabuzz's already solid special-offensive stats into stats that are comparable to some of the best in the tier, but reduce its versatility as a result of the loss in its other stats. Hydreigon's movepool is of similar depth to Flygon's, so you don't lose much in that way, but its stats emphasize its potential as a Specs user (or Life Orb, if you don't like being locked into one move). This is also one of your best bets for Electric-type Levitators.
I couldn't find anything else that comes close to matching Electabuzz -> Flygon and Electabuzz -> Hydreigon, but here are some honorable mentions:
Stunky (63/63/47/41/41/74) -> Bronzong (+10/+65/+30/+55/+30/+10) or Claydol (+20/+30/+50/+30/+50/+20); 73/128/77/96/71/84 and 83/93/97/71/91/94 respectively
(Mygavolt did Dry Skin so I won't add it to this post, if that's alright)
Last edited:
Dry Skin also gives Water immunity (although with the minor drawback of 25% more susceptibility to Fire-type moves), and options for that are:
-
[+18/+17/+19/+48/+51/+39 -> 78/77/59/113/96/74] Nice boost to the last three stats, but not so much the first three. Gets a pivot move in Volt Switch and a supportive option in Glare, but sadly no reliable recovery.
-
[+35/+45/+25/+25/+25/+35 -> 95/105/65/90/70/70] Nice stat boosts all around, but again, no reliable recovery. Gets Knock Off, though, which I guess counts for something.
-
[+20/+20/+20/+30/+30/+30 -> 80/80/60/95/75/65] Well...it gets Wish, at least. Lovely Kiss is nice to have as well, and maybe Heal Bell could be helpful depending on team needs.
-
[+25/+25/+25/+15/+25/+5 -> 85/85/65/80/70/40] Meager stat boosts, but granting access to Synthesis, Spore, and Knock Off (although not all three, obviously) make it arguably the best movepool donor of the bunch. Gets Aromatherapy too.
On another note...
Dugtrio (Swablu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Perish Song
- Roost
- Body Slam
- Heal Bell
Base stats: 70/65/85/55/100/75
Typing: unchanged
Heh, Perish Trapping made easier.
There are other candidates for this, too:
-
[85/85/85/100/110/110] Better stats all around and neutral to SR, but no reliable recovery (unless you consider Pain Split reliable)
-
[70/55/40/100/90/90] Has to resort to Wish; much worse physical bulk
-
[90/70/80/60/95/70] Good typing and respectable bulk, but lacks reliable recovery
-
[55/60/55/115/60/105] Frail but strong; no recovery beyond Pain Split
-
[75/75/120/55/75/60] Good defensive typing and remarkable physical bulk, but lacks reliable recovery
-
[115/55/40/55/45/40] Has to resort to Wish; poor stats overall; at least has decent typing, I suppose
-
[85/110/67/100/67/116] Decent offensive stats, but not much to show in terms of bulk
So if I'm not mistaken. I can use a Stage 1 pokemon from a Stage 3 evolutionary line, evolve it into a Stage 2 pokemon, and still run Eviolite on it as technically it should still be able to evolve again yeah?
If so, the obvious place to look is Happiny -> Chansey, as I can give any Stage 1 pokemon of a Stage 3 evolutionary line 150HP and well as 1.5x Def & SpD, alongside some epic defensive move options, and Nature Cure or Serene Grace.
So lets have a look at just a few of options:
Porygon:215/60/70/105/115/60
Absolutely stupid 215/70/115 defences boosted by Eviolite, while actually boasting a decent 105 SpA. Already has recovery, but greatly appreciates Calm Mind + Refresh (or Heal Bell / Aromatherapy). With max Def investment and CM + Refresh + Recover, this thing'll be stupidly hard to bring down. Also it can run Serene Grace to have a 40% of inflicting either Burn, Freeze or Paralysis on you. Crazy!
Rhyhorn: 230/85/95/50/70/45
230/95/70 Bulk + Eviolite is epic, and it loves inheriting Natural Cure and Soft Boiled from Chansey to keep itself healthy throughout the match. STAB Edgequake off of 85 Atk may be enough to maintain a solid offensive pressure, but if not you can also snatch Seismic Toss from Chansey too. That said you can probably afford to go max Atk because you're defences are so high. Makes for a fantastic Stealth Rock setter.
Squirtle: 194/48/65/70/104/63
The appeal for Squirtle is that it has Serene Grace STAB Scalds, provided a 60% chance to burn opposing Physical attackers while staying out of range from Special attackers with Calm Mind. Squirtle itself also has Refresh, which means it can safely will out the set by inheriting Soft Boiled and Calm Mind. Though you could also take a different approach and make it a terrific Rapid Spinner.
Other nice options may be Solosis, Duskull, Aron, Honedge, Goomy, Flabebe, etc.
So yeah, if that works how I think it does with Eviolite then that's pretty cool. Weak to Knock Off, but pretty cool.
If so, the obvious place to look is Happiny -> Chansey, as I can give any Stage 1 pokemon of a Stage 3 evolutionary line 150HP and well as 1.5x Def & SpD, alongside some epic defensive move options, and Nature Cure or Serene Grace.
So lets have a look at just a few of options:
Porygon:215/60/70/105/115/60
Absolutely stupid 215/70/115 defences boosted by Eviolite, while actually boasting a decent 105 SpA. Already has recovery, but greatly appreciates Calm Mind + Refresh (or Heal Bell / Aromatherapy). With max Def investment and CM + Refresh + Recover, this thing'll be stupidly hard to bring down. Also it can run Serene Grace to have a 40% of inflicting either Burn, Freeze or Paralysis on you. Crazy!
Chansey (Porygon) @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Tri Attack
- Recover
- Refresh
- Calm Mind
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon: 266-314 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon in Sun: 186-220 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 9.2% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon in Heavy Rain: 225-265 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Tri Attack
- Recover
- Refresh
- Calm Mind
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon: 266-314 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon in Sun: 186-220 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 9.2% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon in Heavy Rain: 225-265 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Rhyhorn: 230/85/95/50/70/45
230/95/70 Bulk + Eviolite is epic, and it loves inheriting Natural Cure and Soft Boiled from Chansey to keep itself healthy throughout the match. STAB Edgequake off of 85 Atk may be enough to maintain a solid offensive pressure, but if not you can also snatch Seismic Toss from Chansey too. That said you can probably afford to go max Atk because you're defences are so high. Makes for a fantastic Stealth Rock setter.
Chansey (Rhyhorn) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Soft Boiled
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Rhyhorn: 292-344 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhyhorn: 306-362 (46 - 54.5%) -- 56.6% chance to 2HKO
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Soft Boiled
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Rhyhorn: 292-344 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhyhorn: 306-362 (46 - 54.5%) -- 56.6% chance to 2HKO
Squirtle: 194/48/65/70/104/63
The appeal for Squirtle is that it has Serene Grace STAB Scalds, provided a 60% chance to burn opposing Physical attackers while staying out of range from Special attackers with Calm Mind. Squirtle itself also has Refresh, which means it can safely will out the set by inheriting Soft Boiled and Calm Mind. Though you could also take a different approach and make it a terrific Rapid Spinner.
Chansey (Squirtle) @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Refresh
- Calm Mind
- Soft Boiled
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Squirtle: 210-247 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Squirtle: 268-316 (45.2 - 53.3%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Adaptability burned Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Squirtle: 134-158 (22.6 - 26.6%) -- 28.1% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Squirtle: 118-141 (19.9 - 23.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Squirtle: 79-94 (13.3 - 15.8%) -- possible 7HKO
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Refresh
- Calm Mind
- Soft Boiled
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Squirtle: 210-247 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Squirtle: 268-316 (45.2 - 53.3%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Adaptability burned Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Squirtle: 134-158 (22.6 - 26.6%) -- 28.1% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Squirtle: 118-141 (19.9 - 23.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Squirtle: 79-94 (13.3 - 15.8%) -- possible 7HKO
Other nice options may be Solosis, Duskull, Aron, Honedge, Goomy, Flabebe, etc.
So yeah, if that works how I think it does with Eviolite then that's pretty cool. Weak to Knock Off, but pretty cool.
Sadly, no specific items work like that. If you cross evolce, you cant use them. I asked for marowak, and eviolite counts as well.
Bulletproof is an immunity Ability, albeit not one that provides immunity to a specific type. It's too bad Hoopa-Confined can't evolve, because immunity to Shadow Ball would help it against the likes of Gengar. Aside from Shadow Ball there's also Bullet Seed, Energy Ball, and Seed Bomb -there's a lot of Pokemon where one of those is their entire Grass coverage, a number of whom are completely unaffected by Evolutionary Cross -Manaphy and Heracross, for instance.
Can we just ban Huge Power/Pure Power from non native evolutions instead of banning the entire line? We are potentially precluding the meta from some rather interesting options.
For the record, these are the options aviable.
Stage 2:
Adds primary
type; Thick Fat | Huge Power | Sap Sipper; +20/0/+10/0/+10/+20
Pure Power | Telepathy; +30/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20
Adds secondary
type; Pickup | Cheek Pouch | Huge Power; +47/+20/+39/+18/+41/+21
Stage 3:
Thick Fat | Huge Power | Sap Sipper; +30/+30/+30/+40/+30/+10
For the record, these are the options aviable.
Stage 2:
Stage 3:
Can we just ban Huge Power/Pure Power from non native evolutions instead of banning the entire line? We are potentially precluding the meta from some rather interesting options.
For the record, these are the options aviable.
Stage 2:
Adds primarytype; Thick Fat |Huge Power| Sap Sipper; +20/0/+10/0/+10/+20
Pure Power| Telepathy; +30/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20
Adds secondarytype; Pickup | Cheek Pouch |Huge Power;+47/+20/+39/+18/+41/+21
Stage 3:
Thick Fat |Huge Power| Sap Sipper; +30/+30/+30/+40/+30/+10
They're way ahead of you, albeit without marill.op said:
Last edited:
I thought it was a blanket ban. Good if it isn't, but they need to be included in the spreadsheet then.[/quote]
The way it was in parens made it seem like thats the way, but I admit it isn't the clearest. Good point on the spreadsheet.
Seconding this. Azumarill has the best stat gains for any third-stage evolution with Thick Fat or Sap Sipper, and it's a bit of a shame to have to use something suboptimal for those abilities just because Azumarill's line has access to Huge Power. Also, Cheek Pouch, while niche, could pave its way to a few interesting strategies especially given that Diggersby gives solid defensive boosts, and as of the moment it's impossible to evolve into anything else with the ability (Dedenne is the only other user and it's one-stage.)Can we just ban Huge Power/Pure Power from non native evolutions instead of banning the entire line? We are potentially precluding the meta from some rather interesting options.
For the record, these are the options aviable.
Stage 2:
Adds primarytype; Thick Fat |Huge Power| Sap Sipper; +20/0/+10/0/+10/+20
Pure Power| Telepathy; +30/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20
Adds secondarytype; Pickup | Cheek Pouch |Huge Power;+47/+20/+39/+18/+41/+21
Stage 3:
Thick Fat |Huge Power| Sap Sipper; +30/+30/+30/+40/+30/+10
Cheek Pouch can actually be a pretty cool power balance in a meta of 700 BST mons. I support Huge/Pure Power being banned by themselves as well because of the awesome Cheek Pouch and Thick Fat theorymonning.
To name two:
Munchlax
135/85/40/40/85/5 before crevolving
182/105/79/58/126/26 afterwards (576 BST, so even if the 600 BST rule happens this thing is still there)
Sure, it is still stuck with a Normal/Ground typing, but Munchy has a lot of positive things going for it. Mainly, that downright phenomenal special and mixed bulk with 182/79/126. But it also gets recycle and EQ (weight sure pays off) naturally so it doesn't have to take either from Digg's movepool and use cooler extra options. That way, it can run a set like this:
Traditional Cheeky Attacker
Diggersby (Munchlax) @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD or 228 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpD
Nature: Relaxed or Sassy
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack (From Diggersby)
- Recycle
- Fire Punch / Thunder Punch / Wild Charge (From Diggersby)
Why 228 HP? Because that makes it a multiple of 12, so it gets the maximum possible boost from both Cheek Pouch and Sitrus Berry's activation. I don't know if this more efficient, but it seems to be. Anyway, as a special wall this guy is almost unmatched, and it can blob through all of the special moves with investment, or it can physically wall with defensive investment. Either way, 105 attack is not going to hit hard, but they can't hit you that hard either.
Notable other things that Munchlax has that is awesome:
Belly Drum (Full HP if it activates correctly)
Amnesia (Special walling power is unreal)
Selfdestruct (To KO everything)
Curse (Curselax 2.0)
Return/Double Edge if Quick Attack is not your thing
Whirlwind (Rip special setup sweepers)
Counter
Notable things Diggersby can give Munchlax:
Quick Attack
Bulk Up (If you REALLY hate speed, otherwise outclassed)
(Maybe) Wild Charge?
Payback
Azumarill seems interesting as well, because that makes stage 3 grass immunities better.It would have to compete with Goodra this thing has WAY better boosts than Goodra
Medicham seems useless, there is literally no reason to go for telepathy and it has to compete with Chansey for dat HP boost
Marill's boosts are entirely outclassed by Sliggoos, so the only reason to use it over Sliggoo is the water typing. Personally, I wouldn't use it though.
To name two:
Munchlax
135/85/40/40/85/5 before crevolving
182/105/79/58/126/26 afterwards (576 BST, so even if the 600 BST rule happens this thing is still there)
Sure, it is still stuck with a Normal/Ground typing, but Munchy has a lot of positive things going for it. Mainly, that downright phenomenal special and mixed bulk with 182/79/126. But it also gets recycle and EQ (weight sure pays off) naturally so it doesn't have to take either from Digg's movepool and use cooler extra options. That way, it can run a set like this:
Traditional Cheeky Attacker
Diggersby (Munchlax) @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD or 228 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpD
Nature: Relaxed or Sassy
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack (From Diggersby)
- Recycle
- Fire Punch / Thunder Punch / Wild Charge (From Diggersby)
Why 228 HP? Because that makes it a multiple of 12, so it gets the maximum possible boost from both Cheek Pouch and Sitrus Berry's activation. I don't know if this more efficient, but it seems to be. Anyway, as a special wall this guy is almost unmatched, and it can blob through all of the special moves with investment, or it can physically wall with defensive investment. Either way, 105 attack is not going to hit hard, but they can't hit you that hard either.
Notable other things that Munchlax has that is awesome:
Belly Drum (Full HP if it activates correctly)
Amnesia (Special walling power is unreal)
Selfdestruct (To KO everything)
Curse (Curselax 2.0)
Return/Double Edge if Quick Attack is not your thing
Whirlwind (Rip special setup sweepers)
Counter
Notable things Diggersby can give Munchlax:
Quick Attack
Bulk Up (If you REALLY hate speed, otherwise outclassed)
(Maybe) Wild Charge?
Payback
Azumarill seems interesting as well, because that makes stage 3 grass immunities better.
Medicham seems useless, there is literally no reason to go for telepathy and it has to compete with Chansey for dat HP boost
Marill's boosts are entirely outclassed by Sliggoos, so the only reason to use it over Sliggoo is the water typing. Personally, I wouldn't use it though.
Last edited:
The spreadsheet has been updated to include the Marill line, Medicham, and Diggersby as cross-evolutions.
Also, here's another neat set:
Machamp (Porygon2) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Zap Cannon
- Dynamic Punch
- Recover
- Knock Off
Base Stats: 95/110/100/120/120/70
Not much to behold stat-wise compared to other cross-evolutions of Porygon2 (not to mention it doesn't have room for STAB), but by cross-evolving into Machamp, this particular variant gets the combination of Zap Cannon and Dynamic Punch with No Guard, as well as reliable recovery (which is accessible to no other cross-evolver with Zap Cannon) and Knock Off for utility that also lets it hit those pesky Ghost-types.
Also, here's another neat set:
Machamp (Porygon2) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Zap Cannon
- Dynamic Punch
- Recover
- Knock Off
Base Stats: 95/110/100/120/120/70
Not much to behold stat-wise compared to other cross-evolutions of Porygon2 (not to mention it doesn't have room for STAB), but by cross-evolving into Machamp, this particular variant gets the combination of Zap Cannon and Dynamic Punch with No Guard, as well as reliable recovery (which is accessible to no other cross-evolver with Zap Cannon) and Knock Off for utility that also lets it hit those pesky Ghost-types.
ooh yeah, Belly Drum + Cheek Pouch Munchlax looks really cool. you don't even strictly need to run priority if you can avoid being put up against something that can hit you SE because of how bulky Munchlax is after cross-evolving into Diggersby, and being a Belly Drum user it hits really hard as well. not using Quick Attack means you're prone to being revenge-killed by something that can hit Normal/Ground SE, but it also lets you spare room for more powerful STAB and coverage moves; you could also run Recycle but that means you'll be walled out by the likes of Ghost-type Levitators assuming your offensive moves are dual-STAB
I decided it was high time I post some sets in this thread since this is a very intriguing OM. I went with a few "unseen" heroes from Stage 2s and I will probably post again soon with Stage 3s since this post took forever as is lol.
rip chances at OMotM though :/
Italicized moves in movesets are moves it gains from the cross evolution.
->
->
->
->
->
rip chances at OMotM though :/
Italicized moves in movesets are moves it gains from the cross evolution.
Stat Boosts: +5/+10/+45/+60/+40/+15 (Total: +175)
Abilities: Oblivious / Own Tempo / Regenerator
Change in Typing: N/A
Notable Moves:
N/A
Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Ice Beam, Psychic, Psyshock, Scald, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, Surf
Calm Mind, Disable, Magic Coat, Slack Off, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Trick, Trick Room, Yawn
Sample Sets:
70/65/160/160/80/75
Slowbro (Tangela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Fire Blast
- Sleep Powder
- Slack Off
Tangela now gains reliable recovery, keeps Regenerator, and has nice coverage in Fire Blast. Sleep Powder and Giga Drain from its original movepool allows it to easily annoy the opponent making it a very nice defensive Regenerator.
50/73/82/125/95/110
Slowbro (Elekid) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
I wanted to provide one defensive Regenerator Cross Evolver and one offensive so here it is. Elekid has ok bulk with this cross evolution and gains access to a plethora of coverage moves, giving it a nice BoltBeam combo + Fire Blast to roast Steel-types. Volt Switch allows it to pivot easily and gain HP back through Regenerator.
Abilities: Oblivious / Own Tempo / Regenerator
Change in Typing: N/A
Notable Moves:
N/A
Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Ice Beam, Psychic, Psyshock, Scald, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, Surf
Calm Mind, Disable, Magic Coat, Slack Off, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Trick, Trick Room, Yawn
Sample Sets:
70/65/160/160/80/75
Slowbro (Tangela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Fire Blast
- Sleep Powder
- Slack Off
Tangela now gains reliable recovery, keeps Regenerator, and has nice coverage in Fire Blast. Sleep Powder and Giga Drain from its original movepool allows it to easily annoy the opponent making it a very nice defensive Regenerator.
50/73/82/125/95/110
Slowbro (Elekid) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
I wanted to provide one defensive Regenerator Cross Evolver and one offensive so here it is. Elekid has ok bulk with this cross evolution and gains access to a plethora of coverage moves, giving it a nice BoltBeam combo + Fire Blast to roast Steel-types. Volt Switch allows it to pivot easily and gain HP back through Regenerator.
Stat Boosts: +20/+30/+80/+40/+20/+30 (Total: +220)
Abilities: Shell Armor / Skill Link / Overcoat
Change in Typing:
secondary typing
Notable Moves:
Explosion, Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Icicle Spear, Poison Jab, Rapid Spin, Razor Shell, Rock Blast, Spike Cannon
Blizzard, Frost Breath, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Signal Beam, Surf
Rain Dance, Shell Smash, Spikes, Toxic, Toxic Spikes
Sample Sets:
70/115/135/105/85/120
Cloyster (Ponyta) @ White Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Wild Charge
Cloyster is a really cool cross evolution with access to decent moves and a nice Ice secondary typing. While Ponyta is really weak to rocks, once it sets up, it is basically gg with base 120 Speed and base 115 Attack backed by Skill Link STAB Icicle Spear and STAB Flare Blitz. Wild Charge nails the Water types that will wall Ponyta.
65/93/113/105/75/125
Cloyster (Elekid) @ White Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Thunder Punch / Thunderbolt
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Fire Punch
Elekid is probably one of the best Stage 1s that can cross evolve thanks to its nice offenses and starting Speed stat. It can also be a good mixed lure with decent mixed stats backed by a base 125 Speed.
Abilities: Shell Armor / Skill Link / Overcoat
Change in Typing:
Notable Moves:
Explosion, Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Icicle Spear, Poison Jab, Rapid Spin, Razor Shell, Rock Blast, Spike Cannon
Blizzard, Frost Breath, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Signal Beam, Surf
Rain Dance, Shell Smash, Spikes, Toxic, Toxic Spikes
Sample Sets:
70/115/135/105/85/120
Cloyster (Ponyta) @ White Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Wild Charge
Cloyster is a really cool cross evolution with access to decent moves and a nice Ice secondary typing. While Ponyta is really weak to rocks, once it sets up, it is basically gg with base 120 Speed and base 115 Attack backed by Skill Link STAB Icicle Spear and STAB Flare Blitz. Wild Charge nails the Water types that will wall Ponyta.
65/93/113/105/75/125
Cloyster (Elekid) @ White Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Thunder Punch / Thunderbolt
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Fire Punch
Elekid is probably one of the best Stage 1s that can cross evolve thanks to its nice offenses and starting Speed stat. It can also be a good mixed lure with decent mixed stats backed by a base 125 Speed.
Stat Boosts: +40/+10/+15/+65/+65/+5 (Total: +0)
Abilities: Cute Charm / Pixilate
Change in Typing:
primary typing
Notable Moves:
N/A
Draining Kiss, Hyper Voice, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Stored Power,
Baton Pass, Calm Mind, Heal Bell
Sample Sets:
105/75/60/140/110/100
Sylveon (Yanma) @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Calm Mind
- Air Slash
- Roost / Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fire]
Yanma + Sylveon makes for a decently bulky mon thanks to its new Fairy / Flying typing. Hyper Voice and Calm Mind means it can boost up fairly easily with the resists the typing provides as well as get around common weaknesses such as Electric, Ice, and Poison since they tend to be special based. The last move depends on if you want longevity or coverage against Steel-types, although Roost is a bit better since you can run a Magnet Pull cross evolver to trap said Steel-types for Yanma.
Abilities: Cute Charm / Pixilate
Change in Typing:
Notable Moves:
N/A
Draining Kiss, Hyper Voice, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Stored Power,
Baton Pass, Calm Mind, Heal Bell
Sample Sets:
105/75/60/140/110/100
Sylveon (Yanma) @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Calm Mind
- Air Slash
- Roost / Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fire]
Yanma + Sylveon makes for a decently bulky mon thanks to its new Fairy / Flying typing. Hyper Voice and Calm Mind means it can boost up fairly easily with the resists the typing provides as well as get around common weaknesses such as Electric, Ice, and Poison since they tend to be special based. The last move depends on if you want longevity or coverage against Steel-types, although Roost is a bit better since you can run a Magnet Pull cross evolver to trap said Steel-types for Yanma.
Stat Boosts: +0/+90/+20/+20/+0/+35 (Total: +165)
Abilities: Effect Spore / Poison Heal / Technician
Change in Typing:
secondary typing
Notable Moves:
Bullet Seed, Drain Punch, Focus Punch, Mach Punch, Power-Up Punch, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Seed Bomb, Stone Edge, Superpower, Thunder Punch
N/A
Bulk Up, Refresh, Spore, Swords Dance, Synthesis, Toxic
Sample Sets:
60/150/80/105/85/120
Breloom (Misdreavus) @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Power-Up Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Mach Punch / Low Sweep / Spore
- Destiny Bond / Substitute / Taunt / Heal Bell
This may look like a weird set, and that is because it is. But this is really cool because it takes advantage of Misdreavus's access to dual priority as well as the great neutral coverage of Ghost + Fighting. While Misdreavus's physical movepool is a bit lacking, she can bring utility to the table with the amazing support movepool she has.
135/175/60/60/85/40
Breloom (Munchlax) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Facade
- Mach Punch / Low Sweep
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
AAA Snorlax anyone? Munchlax is a really good Stage 1 cross evolver and for good reason. Its starting base HP and SpD stats are through the roof. This set aims to make Munchlax a tad bit more offensive than the other variants of it as it now has access to Bulk Up (screw Curse imo) and STAB Mach Punch. STAB Facade is very powerful with Poison Heal allowing it to be beneficially statused.
Abilities: Effect Spore / Poison Heal / Technician
Change in Typing:
Notable Moves:
Bullet Seed, Drain Punch, Focus Punch, Mach Punch, Power-Up Punch, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Seed Bomb, Stone Edge, Superpower, Thunder Punch
N/A
Bulk Up, Refresh, Spore, Swords Dance, Synthesis, Toxic
Sample Sets:
60/150/80/105/85/120
Breloom (Misdreavus) @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Power-Up Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Mach Punch / Low Sweep / Spore
- Destiny Bond / Substitute / Taunt / Heal Bell
This may look like a weird set, and that is because it is. But this is really cool because it takes advantage of Misdreavus's access to dual priority as well as the great neutral coverage of Ghost + Fighting. While Misdreavus's physical movepool is a bit lacking, she can bring utility to the table with the amazing support movepool she has.
135/175/60/60/85/40
Breloom (Munchlax) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Facade
- Mach Punch / Low Sweep
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
Stat Boosts: +30/+40/+31/+30/+31/+40 (Total: +202)
Abilities: Lightningrod / Motor Drive / Sap Sipper
Change in Typing: N/A
Notable Moves:
Bounce, Flame Charge, Pursuit, Quick Attack, Thrash, Wild Charge
Charge Beam, Discharge, Overheat, Signal Beam, Thunderbolt, Volt Switch
Agility, Me First, Thunder Wave, Toxic
Sample Sets:
90/125/77/115/77/131
Zebstrika (Murkrow) @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightningrod / Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty / Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch / Pursuit
- Overheat
- Me First / Wild Charge
Zebstrika gives Murkrow not only an immunity to Electric-type moves, but also a great mixed offensive spread with a 125/115/131 spread. Overheat is much better than Heat Wave as it can be initially more powerful and the drops doesn't affect it all that much as it allows Murkrow to continue blowing past Steel-types with its Sucker Punch and Brave Bird. Me First is a nice option since Murkrow is so fast to hit the opponent with their move before they hit Murkrow gaining nice chip damage on the foe.
Abilities: Lightningrod / Motor Drive / Sap Sipper
Change in Typing: N/A
Notable Moves:
Bounce, Flame Charge, Pursuit, Quick Attack, Thrash, Wild Charge
Charge Beam, Discharge, Overheat, Signal Beam, Thunderbolt, Volt Switch
Agility, Me First, Thunder Wave, Toxic
Sample Sets:
90/125/77/115/77/131
Zebstrika (Murkrow) @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightningrod / Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty / Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch / Pursuit
- Overheat
- Me First / Wild Charge
Zebstrika gives Murkrow not only an immunity to Electric-type moves, but also a great mixed offensive spread with a 125/115/131 spread. Overheat is much better than Heat Wave as it can be initially more powerful and the drops doesn't affect it all that much as it allows Murkrow to continue blowing past Steel-types with its Sucker Punch and Brave Bird. Me First is a nice option since Murkrow is so fast to hit the opponent with their move before they hit Murkrow gaining nice chip damage on the foe.
Last edited:
Good post, but one thing I want to point out about your Munchlax set: Since you're running Poison Heal, Facade is superior to Return as it has 38 higher Base Power. While it's not as reliable in that it'll be considerably weaker than Return if your Toxic Orb gets Knocked Off before it poisons you, otherwise it's generally going to be the better option.I decided it was high time I post some sets in this thread since this is a very intriguing OM. I went with a few "unseen" heroes from Stage 2s and I will probably post again soon with Stage 3s since this post took forever as is lol.
rip chances at OMotM though :/
Italicized moves in movesets are moves it gains from the cross evolution.
->
Stat Boosts: +5/+10/+45/+60/+40/+15 (Total: +175)
Abilities: Oblivious / Own Tempo / Regenerator
Change in Typing: N/A
Notable Moves:
N/A
Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Ice Beam, Psychic, Psyshock, Scald, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, Surf
Calm Mind, Disable, Magic Coat, Slack Off, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Trick, Trick Room, Yawn
Sample Sets:
70/65/160/160/80/75
Slowbro (Tangela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Fire Blast
- Sleep Powder
- Slack Off
Tangela now gains reliable recovery, keeps Regenerator, and has nice coverage in Fire Blast. Sleep Powder and Giga Drain from its original movepool allows it to easily annoy the opponent making it a very nice defensive Regenerator.
50/73/82/125/95/110
Slowbro (Elekid) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
I wanted to provide one defensive Regenerator Cross Evolver and one offensive so here it is. Elekid has ok bulk with this cross evolution and gains access to a plethora of coverage moves, giving it a nice BoltBeam combo + Fire Blast to roast Steel-types. Volt Switch allows it to pivot easily and gain HP back through Regenerator.
->
Stat Boosts: +20/+30/+80/+40/+20/+30 (Total: +220)
Abilities: Shell Armor / Skill Link / Overcoat
Change in Typing:secondary typing
Notable Moves:
Explosion, Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Icicle Spear, Poison Jab, Rapid Spin, Razor Shell, Rock Blast, Spike Cannon
Blizzard, Frost Breath, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Signal Beam, Surf
Rain Dance, Shell Smash, Spikes, Toxic, Toxic Spikes
Sample Sets:
70/115/135/105/85/120
Cloyster (Ponyta) @ White Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Wild Charge
Cloyster is a really cool cross evolution with access to decent moves and a nice Ice secondary typing. While Ponyta is really weak to rocks, once it sets up, it is basically gg with base 120 Speed and base 115 Attack backed by Skill Link STAB Icicle Spear and STAB Flare Blitz. Wild Charge nails the Water types that will wall Ponyta.
65/93/113/105/75/125
Cloyster (Elekid) @ White Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Thunder Punch / Thunderbolt
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Fire Punch
Elekid is probably one of the best Stage 1s that can cross evolve thanks to its nice offenses and starting Speed stat. It can also be a good mixed lure with decent mixed stats backed by a base 125 Speed.
->
Stat Boosts: +40/+10/+15/+65/+65/+5 (Total: +0)
Abilities: Cute Charm / Pixilate
Change in Typing:primary typing
Notable Moves:
N/A
Draining Kiss, Hyper Voice, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Stored Power,
Baton Pass, Calm Mind, Heal Bell
Sample Sets:
105/75/60/140/110/100
Sylveon (Yanma) @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Calm Mind
- Air Slash
- Roost / Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fire]
Yanma + Sylveon makes for a decently bulky mon thanks to its new Fairy / Flying typing. Hyper Voice and Calm Mind means it can boost up fairly easily with the resists the typing provides as well as get around common weaknesses such as Electric, Ice, and Poison since they tend to be special based. The last move depends on if you want longevity or coverage against Steel-types, although Roost is a bit better since you can run a Magnet Pull cross evolver to trap said Steel-types for Yanma.
->
Stat Boosts: +0/+90/+20/+20/+0/+35 (Total: +165)
Abilities: Effect Spore / Poison Heal / Technician
Change in Typing:secondary typing
Notable Moves:
Bullet Seed, Drain Punch, Focus Punch, Mach Punch, Power-Up Punch, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Seed Bomb, Stone Edge, Superpower, Thunder Punch
N/A
Bulk Up, Refresh, Spore, Swords Dance, Synthesis, Toxic
Sample Sets:
60/150/80/105/85/120
Breloom (Misdreavus) @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Power-Up Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Mach Punch / Low Sweep / Spore
- Destiny Bond / Substitute / Taunt / Heal Bell
This may look like a weird set, and that is because it is. But this is really cool because it takes advantage of Misdreavus's access to dual priority as well as the great neutral coverage of Ghost + Fighting. While Misdreavus's physical movepool is a bit lacking, she can bring utility to the table with the amazing support movepool she has.
135/175/60/60/85/40
Breloom (Munchlax) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Return / Body Slam
- Mach Punch / Low Sweep
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
AAA Snorlax anyone?Munchlax is a really good Stage 1 cross evolver and for good reason. Its starting base HP and SpD stats are through the roof. This set aims to make Munchlax a tad bit more offensive than the other variants of it as it now has access to Bulk Up (screw Curse imo) and STAB Mach Punch. Return is very powerful, but Body Slam can provide nice paras, allowing Munchlax to outspeed and continue on powering through.
->
Stat Boosts: +30/+40/+31/+30/+31/+40 (Total: +202)
Abilities: Lightningrod / Motor Drive / Sap Sipper
Change in Typing: N/A
Notable Moves:
Bounce, Flame Charge, Pursuit, Quick Attack, Thrash, Wild Charge
Charge Beam, Discharge, Overheat, Signal Beam, Thunderbolt, Volt Switch
Agility, Me First, Thunder Wave, Toxic
Sample Sets:
90/125/77/115/77/131
Zebstrika (Murkrow) @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightningrod / Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty / Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch / Pursuit
- Overheat
- Me First / Wild Charge
Zebstrika gives Murkrow not only an immunity to Electric-type moves, but also a great mixed offensive spread with a 125/115/131 spread. Overheat is much better than Heat Wave as it can be initially more powerful and the drops doesn't affect it all that much as it allows Murkrow to continue blowing past Steel-types with its Sucker Punch and Brave Bird. Me First is a nice option since Murkrow is so fast to hit the opponent with their move before they hit Murkrow gaining nice chip damage on the foe.
I thought it was a blanket ban. Good if it isn't, but they need to be included in the spreadsheet then.[/quote]
It was a blanket ban, but I'm changing it to a ban on Huge/Pure Power on non-native evolutions.
Hello! I don't know if this has already been done but.
Here is a spreadsheet of what the passers give.
I'm not done yet, and it's gonna take a while but I'd be happy to help you.
(By the way, the only hard thing about this is the notable moves.)
This meta is great!
Here is a spreadsheet of what the passers give.
I'm not done yet, and it's gonna take a while but I'd be happy to help you.
(By the way, the only hard thing about this is the notable moves.)
This meta is great!