Metagame Cross Evolution

Suspect test results
To put it simply, everyone has voted ban Solgaleo/Lunala on both this thread and the unnoficial poll by shrektacularshrek.

Cross-evolving into Solgaleo or Lunala has been unanimously banned.
Tagging urkerab to update Gen 7 Cross Evolution on ROM.

Thank you to all of you who participated on the suspect.

EDIT:
^^^^^^ I don't see why we would change the VR list from Last gen tho? When it's much easier and cleaner to just simply list them from base forms.
And then order its viable crosses by viability.
 
Suspect test results
To put it simply, everyone has voted ban Solgaleo/Lunala on both this thread and the unnoficial poll by shrektacularshrek.

Cross-evolving into Solgaleo or Lunala has been unanimously banned.
Tagging urkerab to update Gen 7 Cross Evolution on ROM.

Thank you to all of you who participated on the suspect.

EDIT:

And then order its viable crosses by viability.
God damn I'll need to change the entire vr... looks like I'm going to be here a while Dx
 
Well anyways. There's another potential unaware user, besides Type: Null x Quagsire and Dusclops x Clefable that I personally think deserve a little recognition and a spot on the VR list.

Sliggoo ===> Clefable: Stats:93/100/78/118/138/85

Abilities:Cute Charm/Magic Guard/Unaware Type:Dragon

Clefable (Sliggoo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware / Magic Guard (Optional)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock off / Seismic Toss / heal Bell / Fire blast
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam/ Toxic / Filler

"Dat four-move-slot-syndrome tho...." Lol, well guess what? You're going to be dealing with the same exact problems with other Unaware users. But anywho, Sliggoo nearly counters and or check all Vivillon crossevo-Pokemon, volcarona crossevo-Pokemon, Hydreigon crossevo-Pokemon, Vikavolt-crossevo-Pokemon, ETC etc anything that can't hit it hard enough with a Super effective move(or *cough*Simple Stored power*cough*) is hard stomped and are usually forced out. K-Off helps obviously, by stripping Lo/CSpecs and such but if you need a cleric, hey Sliggoo can do that too. Acid armor is for patching up its weaker defense if you're into that lol. Fire Blast could help with Steel types if you don't choose heal Bell or K-Off as your second move-slot. Otherwise, Imo I would recommend Sleep talk since majority of the pokemon that cross-evolve into viviilon/Volcarona/Buterrfree (Tangela/Haunter/Electabuzz/Magmar) could very well be carrying Sleep Powder/Hypnosis in haunter's case. The last slot can personally be whatever you want it to be. Dragon pulse is obvious stab, ice beam hits the same things as dragon pulse (no stab tho)but has more SE types to hit.

As for ranking it, I'm not entirely sure. As I have yet to test it vs Real humans lol.

P.S. I know I didn't mention Magic guard at all, that's because personally I think Unaware is(probably) better. But who knows, MG Sliggoo could probably do work too

P.P.S. Sliggoo x Clef + Null x Quag are pretty legit partners too. Synergy both of em with your team and you have one hell of stall team.

Edit: Sliggoo x Clefable(and others) in action Below!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7crossevolution-74978
 
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Well anyways. There's another potential unaware user, besides Type: Null x Quagsire and Dusclops x Clefable that I personally think deserve a little recognition and a spot on the VR list.

Sliggoo ===> Clefable: Stats:93/100/78/118/138/85

Abilities:Cute Charm/Magic Guard/Unaware Type:Dragon

Clefable (Sliggoo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware / Magic Guard (Optional)
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SpD
Calm Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal bell / Knock Off / Toxic
- Acid Armor / Toxic / Sleep Talk
- Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam/ Filler

"Dat four-move-slot-syndrome tho...." Lol, well guess what? You're going to be dealing with the same exact problems with other Unaware users. But anywho, Sliggoo nearly counters and or check all Vivillon crossevo-Pokemon, volcarona crossevo-Pokemon, Hydreigon crossevo-Pokemon, Vikavolt-crossevo-Pokemon, ETC etc anything that can't hit it hard enough with a Super effective move(or *cough*Simple Stored power*cough*) is hard stomped and are usually forced out. K-Off helps obviously, by stripping Lo/CSpecs and such but if you need a cleric, hey Sliggoo can do that too. Acid Armor is for patching up its Defense if you're into that lol. Otherwise, Imo I would recommend Sleep talk since majority of the pokemon that cross-evolve into viviilon/Volcarona/Buterrfree (Tangela/Haunter/Electabuzz/Magmar) could very well be carrying Sleep Powder/Hypnosis in haunter's case. The last slot can personally be whatever you want it to be. Dragon pulse is obvious stab, ice beam hits the same things as dragon pulse (no stab tho)but has more SE types to hit.

As for ranking it, I'm not entirely sure. As I have yet to test it vs Real humans lol.

P.S. I know I didn't mention Magic guard at all, that's because I personally I think Unaware is(probably) better. But who knows, MG Sliggoo could probably do work too
Unfortunately, Softboiled is illegal alongside unaware, so you'll have to give up two of those moveslots for wishtect or run the unreliable moonlight.
 
Unfortunately, Softboiled is illegal alongside unaware, so you'll have to give up two of those moveslots for wishtect or run the unreliable moonlight.
Well, Dusclops x Clefable can use Soft-boiled too. why wouldn't Sliggoo be allowed? Egg moves, Events, Past gens move tutors or w.e the "Illegal" thing is, IIRC are all ignored.

Edit: That means Pikachu crossevolving into something or something else crossevolving into Raichu can use both Surf + Espeed in the same moveset ;/
 
I want to talk about an underdog:


Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Slack Off
- Calm Mind

Yes, it's Mega Slowbro! Stall in Cross Evolution is notable for the use of different Megas for different purposes (Mega Gengar, Mega Salamence, Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye). What makes Mega Slowbro notable then? Its stupid high physical bulk and typing is a key point in using Mega Slowbro, since it allows it to work as a shaky counter or at least check the likes of Rhydon x Beedrill (thanks to Shell Armor), Archen x Hitmonlee and Krabby x Araquanid, absurd wallbreakers which would otherwise punch massive holes on your stall team. It is also able to work as your wincon with Calm Mind, and thanks to its access to Psyshock it can win Calm Mind wars even against Spritzee x Milotic, which is widely feared as the most threatening Calm Mind user in the metagame.
Of course, Slowbro is not without flaws. Its base form cannot keep up with the unreal power creep in the metagame and thus it might have some trouble to Mega Evolve safely, since it can't easily switch into attacks prior to Mega Evolution. Its low Special Defense it's more evident than ever since Slowbro has to fully invest in physical defense to avoid being overwhelmed by the wallbreakers you're trying to check/counter and the special attackers Slowbro will face are much more powerful to start with. Its Speed is also pretty low, but hey, at least it outspeeds Spritzee...
Despite all of these, Mega Slowbro is great on stall teams due to the role compression and unique checking prowess it offers, so give it a try!
 
Well anyways. There's another potential unaware user, besides Type: Null x Quagsire and Dusclops x Clefable that I personally think deserve a little recognition and a spot on the VR list.

Sliggoo ===> Clefable: Stats:93/100/78/118/138/85

Abilities:Cute Charm/Magic Guard/Unaware Type:Dragon

Clefable (Sliggoo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware / Magic Guard (Optional)
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SpD
Calm Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock off / heal Bell / Toxic
- Acid Armor / Sleep Talk / Toxic
- Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam/ Toxic / Filler
I don't think this would warrant any spot above B-, as the opportunity cost is inherently too great. While it acts as a great check to Magmar x Serperior, it doesn't provide much beyond that, as most other Unaware users (eg. Dusclops x Clef, Munch/Null x Quag, etc.) would outclass it at this point. Dragon-typing isn't great and it would definitely appreciate a little physical bulk. Yes, you can argue that its pitiful defense can be remedied by Acid Armor, but it's meant to act as a check to setup sweepers, and a subpar physical defense is not acceptable if it is meant to accomplish that. I'd be willing to reconsider if further argumentation is made.

And I personally want to talk about a few underrated Pokemon.

So first I'd like to go over the Lairon set, specifically Lairon x Dragonite.

Lairon -> Dragonite: 90/140/170/80/80/50
Inner Focus/Multiscale
Steel / Flying type

Dragonite (Lairon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Relaxed/Impish Nature
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Metal Burst / Iron Head / Toxic

Previously, I never gave this Poke much thought. At first it just seemed like a subpar Doublade to me, and I originally thought Defog wasn't compatible with Multiscale. But as it actually is, my view of this Pokemon has changed. Having access to both Stealth Rock and Defog as well as slightly better mixed bulk than Doublade bumps up its viability. As for the EV spread, with the specified EV's it does many impressive feats, including:
- Living a Xerneas +2 Modest Thunder through Multiscale
- Taking 80% from a Close Combat from Adamant Life Orb Rhydon x Gallade and KO'ing back with Metal Burst
- Taking 60% from a Magmar x Gallade Life Orb Flare Blitz Through Multiscale and KO'ing back with Metal Burst
- Taking a +6 Moonblast from uninvested CroSprit x Milo without Multiscale, as well as taking at most 60% from a fully invested +6 Moonblast from Sprit x Milo.
Other things it does well against include Archen, Cranidos, Scyther, and, by virtue of its typing, at least half of the offensive Pokes in the game.
However it struggles in the sense that it is highly reliant on Multiscale to survive crucial hits and can sometimes seem like a somewhat passive Pokemon. But with all of this in mind, I urge you to try it out, as it is a nice asset to both stall and balance due to its ability to both set up hazards and remove them. Think of like like a better Skarmory.


Next comes Tangela. Now, I know you're going to ask: "smellslikememe, why Tangela? It's pretty prominent if you ask me." But I'm talking about forgettable but decent evolutions of Tangela, and those are Tangela x Chansey/Persian-A.

Tangela -> Chansey: 215/55/115/120/80/80
Natural Cure / Serene Grace / Healer
Grass type

Tangela -> Persian-A: 90/80/140/125/65/85
Fur Coat / Technician / Rattled
Grass type

I don't have calc'd EV spreads for either of these Pokemon, but they are potent threats in their own ways. Tangela x Chansey is scary purely because of its sheer bulk. While it lacks the typing to reliably abuse the insane amount of bulk it has, it is still noteworthy as a check to certain Ground-types, such as Rhydon x Gallade. Meanwhile, Tangela x Persian-A is a different story. It would be a purely physical bulk invested 'mon, so the spread would be as follows:

Persian-Alola (Tangela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Synthesis
- Parting Shot
- Filler
Having a somewhat barren movepool but having access to Parting Shot is a mixed bag for Tangela. It lacks special bulk but has insane amounts of physical bulk. (TimeZone used it vs. an Adamant Rayquaza. Dragon Ascent did 37%.) It lacks a good support movepool, making it very predictable, and Synthesis isn't a great form of recovery, but this could be used as an alternative to Gligar x Persian-A as a blanket check to physical attackers if you REALLY need a defensive Grass-type for whatever reason.


Finally we have Archen x Whimsicott. I put this here because a lot of people were confused as to what sort of role it would play.

Archen -> Whimsicott: 75/152/70/114/70/120
Prankster / Infiltrator / Chlorophyll
Rock / Flying type

Right off the bat you notice that it has Prankster as its ability, so obviously it must revolve around it. The set I use is as follows:
Whimsicott (Archen) @ Focus sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Stone Edge / Head Smash
- Memento
This set is fairly straightforward, and should only be used on hyper offense. It has a respectable attack stat as well as access to Taunt. It can act as an excellent lead as well as anti-lead due to this. It's fairly easy to use; set up Rocks first turn or use Taunt if you suspect the opponent to be using a suicide lead as well. Afterwards, use Memento and/or Stone Edge and sack it off in order for your offensive team to gain momentum. This works particularly well on teams that can put heavy pressure on opposing Defoggers. Its greatest weaknesses are Dark-types as well as opposing priority users, and cannot reliably pressure either of those.

These Pokemon are generally quite underrated (AbyssalBot doesn't even know how do use any other moves other than Head Smash, apparently, so Archencott is pretty much useless for it) However, I want you to give these 'mons a try, because while they may not be the best at what they do, they certainly have their own niches that distinguish themselves from other Pokemon that would otherwise outclass it.

-smellslikememe
 
I don't think this would warrant any spot above B-, as the opportunity cost is inherently too great. While it acts as a great check to Magmar x Serperior, it doesn't provide much beyond that, as most other Unaware users (eg. Dusclops x Clef, Munch/Null x Quag, etc.) would outclass it at this point. Dragon-typing isn't great and it would definitely appreciate a little physical bulk. Yes, you can argue that its pitiful defense can be remedied by Acid Armor, but it's meant to act as a check to setup sweepers, and a subpar physical defense is not acceptable if it is meant to accomplish that. I'd be willing to reconsider if further argumentation is made.

And I personally want to talk about a few underrated Pokemon.

So first I'd like to go over the Lairon set, specifically Lairon x Dragonite.

Lairon -> Dragonite: 90/140/170/80/80/50
Inner Focus/Multiscale
Steel / Flying type

Dragonite (Lairon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Relaxed/Impish Nature
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Metal Burst / Iron Head / Toxic

Previously, I never gave this Poke much thought. At first it just seemed like a subpar Doublade to me, and I originally thought Defog wasn't compatible with Multiscale. But as it actually is, my view of this Pokemon has changed. Having access to both Stealth Rock and Defog as well as slightly better mixed bulk than Doublade bumps up its viability. As for the EV spread, with the specified EV's it does many impressive feats, including:
- Living a Xerneas +2 Modest Thunder through Multiscale
- Taking 80% from a Close Combat from Adamant Life Orb Rhydon x Gallade and KO'ing back with Metal Burst
- Taking 60% from a Magmar x Gallade Life Orb Flare Blitz Through Multiscale and KO'ing back with Metal Burst
- Taking a +6 Moonblast from uninvested CroSprit x Milo without Multiscale, as well as taking at most 60% from a fully invested +6 Moonblast from Sprit x Milo.
Other things it does well against include Archen, Cranidos, Scyther, and, by virtue of its typing, at least half of the offensive Pokes in the game.
However it struggles in the sense that it is highly reliant on Multiscale to survive crucial hits and can sometimes seem like a somewhat passive Pokemon. But with all of this in mind, I urge you to try it out, as it is a nice asset to both stall and balance due to its ability to both set up hazards and remove them. Think of like like a better Skarmory.


Next comes Tangela. Now, I know you're going to ask: "smellslikememe, why Tangela? It's pretty prominent if you ask me." But I'm talking about forgettable but decent evolutions of Tangela, and those are Tangela x Chansey/Persian-A.

Tangela -> Chansey: 215/55/115/120/80/80
Natural Cure / Serene Grace / Healer
Grass type

Tangela -> Persian-A: 90/80/140/125/65/85
Fur Coat / Technician / Rattled
Grass type

I don't have calc'd EV spreads for either of these Pokemon, but they are potent threats in their own ways. Tangela x Chansey is scary purely because of its sheer bulk. While it lacks the typing to reliably abuse the insane amount of bulk it has, it is still noteworthy as a check to certain Ground-types, such as Rhydon x Gallade. Meanwhile, Tangela x Persian-A is a different story. It would be a purely physical bulk invested 'mon, so the spread would be as follows:

Persian-Alola (Tangela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Synthesis
- Parting Shot
- Filler
Having a somewhat barren movepool but having access to Parting Shot is a mixed bag for Tangela. It lacks special bulk but has insane amounts of physical bulk. (TimeZone used it vs. an Adamant Rayquaza. Dragon Ascent did 37%.) It lacks a good support movepool, making it very predictable, and Synthesis isn't a great form of recovery, but this could be used as an alternative to Gligar x Persian-A as a blanket check to physical attackers if you REALLY need a defensive Grass-type for whatever reason.


Finally we have Archen x Whimsicott. I put this here because a lot of people were confused as to what sort of role it would play.

Archen -> Whimsicott: 75/152/70/114/70/120
Prankster / Infiltrator / Chlorophyll
Rock / Flying type

Right off the bat you notice that it has Prankster as its ability, so obviously it must revolve around it. The set I use is as follows:
Whimsicott (Archen) @ Focus sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Stone Edge / Head Smash
- Memento
This set is fairly straightforward, and should only be used on hyper offense. It has a respectable attack stat as well as access to Taunt. It can act as an excellent lead as well as anti-lead due to this. It's fairly easy to use; set up Rocks first turn or use Taunt if you suspect the opponent to be using a suicide lead as well. Afterwards, use Memento and/or Stone Edge and sack it off in order for your offensive team to gain momentum. This works particularly well on teams that can put heavy pressure on opposing Defoggers. Its greatest weaknesses are Dark-types as well as opposing priority users, and cannot reliably pressure either of those.

These Pokemon are generally quite underrated (AbyssalBot doesn't even know how do use any other moves other than Head Smash, apparently, so Archencott is pretty much useless for it) However, I want you to give these 'mons a try, because while they may not be the best at what they do, they certainly have their own niches that distinguish themselves from other Pokemon that would otherwise outclass it.

-smellslikememe
"dragon typing isn't that great" No, but the typing is what makes Sliggoo a solid and Better answer to the above pokes I mentioned earlier, you mentioned Serp-Mag but ignored literally all the other more Dangerous pokes that are clearly more of a handful if you choose to ignore them(Volcarona, hydreigon, Vivillon, Vikavolt, Butterfree, Aren't important enough threats to you?) Resistance to Fire, Electric and Water are pretty key resistances(the last one being Scald-switch-in) and grass resistance is not entirely important, but it helps vs Tangela offensive variants at least.

"Set-up opportunity are too high / Defenses are low" Acid armor was a joke option(lol) but anyways just because it has bad Defense doesn't take anything else away from it. Taking physical hits IS NOT its job anyways. As for the "set-up cost is to high" but yet we use Clops / Type: Null who also have a pretty high set-up rate in this meta. Especially since taunt shuts both sets down(Sliggoo is shut down too tho)and Ghost types(notable Misdreavus, and haunter) can use Null AND Clops as potential setup bait too, mostly dusclops, because it depends on type:null's EVs spread tbh. But then you could argue "Type / Clops has teammates whenever taunt and or Ghost types appear" Sliggoo has teammates for when physical sweepers/wallbreakers come in too tho? I mean obviously, every pokemon has flaws. But it's their value we look to right? Hard-checking/Countering 5-7 Crossevo pokemon(majority being offensive spacial boosting-beast)is pretty valuable imo.

Side note: You could also argue chansey does this "better" due to chandy / Decidueye having haze. Let me say this though, regardless of haze, chansey will still suffer from a +1 hit that might prove to be too much for it(Like, P-kygore after cm for example) and now you have a crippled Chansey who has to either switch or hope for a (possible) miss.

+1 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Chansey in Heavy Rain: 331-391 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Sliggoo: 160-190 (41 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Hey, it can switch in on Origin pulse at least lol. And now I discovered another pokemon sliggoo x Clefable checks.

Edit: can't believe you took "Acid Armor" seriously lmao. "you could argue acid armor" LOL no one's going to argue over that bs. I'll remove it as an option in my post before someone else takes it seriously ;/
 
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I've added some resources in post #2, including an official Viability Rankings I made based on both the Gen 6 and the Gen 7 one by shrektacularshrek.
The sample sets resources is back too, this time in pastebin format! This way the thread isn't cluttered as much as last gen. Feel free to contribute with your own!
 
"dragon typing isn't that great" No, but the typing is what makes Sliggoo a solid and Better answer to the above pokes I mentioned earlier, you mentioned Serp-Mag but ignored literally all the other more Dangerous pokes that are clearly more of a handful if you choose to ignore them(Volcarona, hydreigon, Vivillon, Vikavolt, Butterfree, Aren't important enough threats to you?) Resistance to Fire, Electric and Water are pretty key resistances(the last one being Scald-switch-in) and grass resistance is not entirely important, but it helps vs Tangela offensive variants at least.
Chansey does the exact same thing because of its special bulk. And this doesn't really act as a check to Vikavolt or Hydre anyway, as Vikavolts, Electabuzz x Vivi, and Electa/Magneton x Hydre would carry Volt Switch and gain easy momentum on offensive and balance teams, and being a passive Pokemon with an easily predictable moveset, it would become bait vs. offensive teams. Dusclops doesn't have this problem, as it has a plethora of moves it could be running to pressure incoming switch-ins.

"Set-up opportunity are too high / Defenses are low" Acid armor was a joke option(lol) but anyways just because it has bad Defense doesn't take anything else away from it. Taking physical hits IS NOT its job anyways. As for the "set-up cost is to high" but yet we use Clops / Type: Null who also have a pretty high set-up rate in this meta.
Its defense is far too low to even consider setting up. And your point about Clops and Null are irrelevant, as both of these have high mixed bulk anyway which gives them far more flexibility in setting up.

Especially since taunt shuts both sets down(Sliggoo is shut down too tho)and Ghost types(notable Misdreavus, and haunter) can use Null AND Clops as potential setup bait too, mostly dusclops, because it depends on type:null's EVs spread tbh. But then you could argue "Type / Clops has teammates whenever taunt and or Ghost types appear" Sliggoo has teammates for when physical sweepers/wallbreakers come in too tho? I mean obviously, every pokemon has flaws. But it's their value we look to right? Hard-checking/Countering 5-7 Crossevo pokemon(majority being offensive spacial boosting-beast)is pretty valuable imo.
I'm talking about the opportunity cost which inherently makes it less viable than other mons, especially because the only things that separate it from Chansey are typing and Unaware, except that it fears common weaknesses to Fairy and Ice.

Edit: can't believe you took "Acid Armor" seriously lmao. "you could argue acid armor" LOL no one's going to argue over that bs. I'll remove it as an option in my post before someone else takes it seriously ;/
idk

EDIT: I'm speaking from a strictly stall standpoint and how it fits into a team

IMO move Sliggoo to B- or C+ because it has a high opportunity cost and a subpar typing. The fact that other Clefable evo's do this better increases its opportunity even further, and as a dedicated special wall is outclassed by some Chansey evos. I see it more as a niche option over other Unawares, being able to check some Pokemon well.

I've added some resources in post #2, including an official Viability Rankings I made based on both the Gen 6 and the Gen 7 one by shrektacularshrek.
The sample sets resources is back too, this time in pastebin format! This way the thread isn't cluttered as much as last gen. Feel free to contribute with your own!
I'd like to submit Lairon (Dragonite) -> B/B- for the VR because although it may not play the exact role as Doublade, it has marginally higher special bulk and access to both Defog and Rocks as well as the rare Metal Burst, which gives it a niche that no other Pokemon has access to.

For the Pastebin:
Mixed Defensive Stealth Rock + Defog
Dragonite (Lairon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Nature: Relaxed / Impish
- Roost
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Defog
- Metal Burst / Iron Head / Toxic

(tagging dsm77773 so he actually sees this hehexd)

~smellslikememe
 
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Chansey does the exact same thing because of its special bulk. And this doesn't really act as a check to Vikavolt or Hydre anyway, as Vikavolts, Electabuzz x Vivi, and Electa/Magneton x Hydre would carry Volt Switch and gain easy momentum on offensive and balance teams, and being a passive Pokemon with an easily predictable moveset, it would become bait vs. offensive teams. Dusclops doesn't have this problem, as it has a plethora of moves it could be running to pressure incoming switch-ins.


Its defense is far too low to even consider setting up. And your point about Clops and Null are irrelevant, as both of these have high mixed bulk anyway which gives them far more flexibility in setting up.


I'm talking about the opportunity cost which inherently makes it less viable than other mons, especially because the only things that separate it from Chansey are typing and Unaware, except that it fears common weaknesses to Fairy and Ice.


idk

EDIT: I'm speaking from a strictly stall standpoint and how it fits into a team

IMO move Sliggoo to B- or C+ because it has a high opportunity cost and a subpar typing. The fact that other Clefable evo's do this better increases its opportunity even further, and as a dedicated special wall is outclassed by some Chansey evos. I see it more as a niche option over other Unawares, being able to check some Pokemon well.



I'd like to submit Lairon (Dragonite) -> B/B- for the VR because although it may not play the exact role as Doublade, it has marginally higher special bulk and access to both Defog and Rocks as well as the rare Metal Burst, which gives it a niche that no other Pokemon has access to.

For the Pastebin:
Mixed Defensive Stealth Rock + Defog
Dragonite (Lairon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Nature: Relaxed / Impish
- Roost
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Defog
- Metal Burst / Iron Head / Toxic

(tagging dsm77773 so he actually sees this hehexd)

~smellslikememe
On Sliggoo:
There's a key point you both forgot: Type:Null is a Normal-type while Dusclops is a Ghost-type. These two stack weaknesses with the also Normal-type Chansey and Doublade (usually Flygon on stall teams due to its ability to check common wallbreakers, so it's a Ghost-type). Not to mention, Sliggoo completes an SFD core with Doublade and a Fairy-type, and a very common stall core is Chansey + Doublade + Fairy. Dragon typing is far from subpar as it offers 4 great resistances to Fire, Water and Electric (common attacking types) and Grass. So Sliggoo is arguably much easier to fit on a stall team. Acid Armor is irrelevant, it's just a filler move for it since its movepool is horrible, but I'd rather run Stealth Rock or Sleep Talk, given how often the threats is meant to counter carry sleep moves. Sliggoo also checks Primal Kyogre, which Chansey is a very shaky check to, given that it is 2HKOed by +1 Origin Pulse and doesn't like taking loads of damage from boosted attacks just so it can Haze. Yes, Sliggoo is broderline 2HKOed by Ice Beam, but at least is an equally good check to Primal Kyogre no matter how many boosts it has, while Chansey fears taking on a +2 Primal Kyogre (or +1 if it's a bit weakened).

On Lairon:
Definitely, it should go to B-rank. However, I'd say that Multiscale Defog is bad (and Doublade x Dragonite also has Defog, for that matter), and I'd rather not SR + Defog on the same set. Tbh, Stealth Rock is the main selling point of Lairon over the otherwise superior Doublade. Also, Metal Burst is cool and all, but it is easily played around if it's your only source of damage. What about this?
Dragonite (Lairon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Nature: Relaxed / Impish
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Defog
- Metal Burst / Iron Head

Just leave your Defog duties to your teammates (support Arceus-Fairy on stall teams, for example).
Once we've come to an agreement on the Lairon set, it'll be added to the sample sets too.
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
I haven't played this for a while but DTail/WW sounds better than Toxic (or at least an option) because you phase things which try and setup on you. WW beats sub which is handy because you otherwise lose. Also Metal Burst + Multiscale is :/ because they don't exactly pair well together, though I understand the draw of the move.

Also, all Multiscale mons should also be EV'd to regain Multiscale after SR and 1/2 rounds of lefties. In OU, Skarm needs 224 EVs to do this, for example. 224 also works for DoubladexDragonite, coincidentally.
 
I haven't played this for a while but DTail/WW sounds better than Toxic (or at least an option) because you phase things which try and setup on you. WW beats sub which is handy because you otherwise lose. Also Metal Burst + Multiscale is :/ because they don't exactly pair well together, though I understand the draw of the move.

Also, all Multiscale mons should also be EV'd to regain Multiscale after SR and 1/2 rounds of lefties. In OU, Skarm needs 224 EVs to do this, for example. 224 also works for DoubladexDragonite, coincidentally.
LOL MScale lets it live a Life Orb Magmar x Gallade Flare Blitz and then it OHKO's with Metal Burst
But yeah otherwise IDK if they pair well with each other, there's pros and cons to it, like surviving some hits that would otherwise kill and killing with Metal Burst, or the other way it can go, which is taking too little damage and not doing enough with Metal Burst to kill. I personally run Defog and Rocks (good times with Empoleon in ORAS) because I can provide passive pressure on opposing hazard setters by threatening to set up my own or removing theirs.
So I guess the final set is as follows:
Dragonite (Lairon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Nature: Relaxed / Impish
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Defog / Whirlwind / Dragon Tail
- Metal Burst / Iron Head
What changed?
248 -> 252 HP (sin(pi) suggested recovering Multiscale in 2 turns after Rocks
Added Whirlwind/Dragon Tail for the 3rd moveslot

Also I thought Doublade x Dnite needed 220 to regain Multi after Rocks, but maybe I was wrong :]
~smellslikememe
 
On Sliggoo:
There's a key point you both forgot: Type:Null is a Normal-type while Dusclops is a Ghost-type. These two stack weaknesses with the also Normal-type Chansey and Doublade (usually Flygon on stall teams due to its ability to check common wallbreakers, so it's a Ghost-type). Not to mention, Sliggoo completes an SFD core with Doublade and a Fairy-type, and a very common stall core is Chansey + Doublade + Fairy. Dragon typing is far from subpar as it offers 4 great resistances to Fire, Water and Electric (common attacking types) and Grass. So Sliggoo is arguably much easier to fit on a stall team. Acid Armor is irrelevant, it's just a filler move for it since its movepool is horrible, but I'd rather run Stealth Rock or Sleep Talk, given how often the threats is meant to counter carry sleep moves. Sliggoo also checks Primal Kyogre, which Chansey is a very shaky check to, given that it is 2HKOed by +1 Origin Pulse and doesn't like taking loads of damage from boosted attacks just so it can Haze. Yes, Sliggoo is broderline 2HKOed by Ice Beam, but at least is an equally good check to Primal Kyogre no matter how many boosts it has, while Chansey fears taking on a +2 Primal Kyogre (or +1 if it's a bit weakened).

On Lairon:
Definitely, it should go to B-rank. However, I'd say that Multiscale Defog is bad (and Doublade x Dragonite also has Defog, for that matter), and I'd rather not SR + Defog on the same set. Tbh, Stealth Rock is the main selling point of Lairon over the otherwise superior Doublade. Also, Metal Burst is cool and all, but it is easily played around if it's your only source of damage. What about this?
Dragonite (Lairon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Nature: Relaxed / Impish
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Defog
- Metal Burst / Iron Head

Just leave your Defog duties to your teammates (support Arceus-Fairy on stall teams, for example).
Once we've come to an agreement on the Lairon set, it'll be added to the sample sets too.
Good point I forgot Sliggoo doesn't stack weaknesses with either Doublade(flygon) or Chansey. And he's obviously ignoring everything else I mentioned (like the pokemons I mentioned that it hardchecks or The calc with Porge).

Chansey does the exact same thing because of its special bulk. And this doesn't really act as a check to Vikavolt or Hydre anyway, as Vikavolts, Electabuzz x Vivi, and Electa/Magneton x Hydre would carry Volt Switch and gain easy momentum on offensive and balance teams, and being a passive Pokemon with an easily predictable moveset, it would become bait vs. offensive teams. Dusclops doesn't have this problem, as it has a plethora of moves it could be running to pressure incoming switch-ins.


Its defense is far too low to even consider setting up. And your point about Clops and Null are irrelevant, as both of these have high mixed bulk anyway which gives them far more flexibility in setting up.


I'm talking about the opportunity cost which inherently makes it less viable than other mons, especially because the only things that separate it from Chansey are typing and Unaware, except that it fears common weaknesses to Fairy and Ice.


idk

EDIT: I'm speaking from a strictly stall standpoint and how it fits into a team

IMO move Sliggoo to B- or C+ because it has a high opportunity cost and a subpar typing. The fact that other Clefable evo's do this better increases its opportunity even further, and as a dedicated special wall is outclassed by some Chansey evos. I see it more as a niche option over other Unawares, being able to check some Pokemon well.



I'd like to submit Lairon (Dragonite) -> B/B- for the VR because although it may not play the exact role as Doublade, it has marginally higher special bulk and access to both Defog and Rocks as well as the rare Metal Burst, which gives it a niche that no other Pokemon has access to.

For the Pastebin:
Mixed Defensive Stealth Rock + Defog
Dragonite (Lairon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Nature: Relaxed / Impish
- Roost
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Defog
- Metal Burst / Iron Head / Toxic

(tagging dsm77773 so he actually sees this hehexd)

~smellslikememe

I'm just going to ignore the "Acid armor" comment as you clearly didn't understand that I wasn't serious. "Far too low to set up" this statement you said proved it to me.

I'm also ignoring your Chansey argument because it seems you ignored mines(I even showed you calcs for an example smh).

And my point about Clops and Type aren't irrelevant? Having mix bulk does make them flexible but it doesn't mean They can't be used as an setup opportunity by other pokemon too. Smh. B- Rank is fine for now, I was just presenting an underdog unaware user that also as Dsm77773 mentioned, doesn't mess up synergy on your stall team.
 
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Here's another unique set that I just recently been trying.

Venomoth (Salandit) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Sleep Powder / Energy ball

Salandit ===>Venomoth: Stats:58/54/50/121/60/122 Abilities:Shield Dust/Tinted Lens/Wonder Skin Type:Poison/Fire


This may seem like an odd choice from other Quiver Dancers, and trust me it is lol. But the point of this set is Tinted Lens! Fire / Poison isn't exactly godly or whatever offensively, but it smacks tons of stuff pretty hard after couple QD's. Such as being able to 2hko a lot of Bulky water types with just Fire Blast(My vaporeon onix spread with 252 HP / 240Spd+ takes 60%+ after one qd), sludge Wave is reliable stab. Last slot is personally based on what you think you need. energy ball is a more reliable way to best bulky water types, while Sleep powder helps it set up a bit more to bypass things like Type:Null that isn't nicknamed Quagsire lol.

I think it's probably C- rank as it requires a lot of support and can't switch in on anything at all due to its near paper-thin-bulk and SR weakness.
 
LOL MScale lets it live a Life Orb Magmar x Gallade Flare Blitz and then it OHKO's with Metal Burst
But yeah otherwise IDK if they pair well with each other, there's pros and cons to it, like surviving some hits that would otherwise kill and killing with Metal Burst, or the other way it can go, which is taking too little damage and not doing enough with Metal Burst to kill. I personally run Defog and Rocks (good times with Empoleon in ORAS) because I can provide passive pressure on opposing hazard setters by threatening to set up my own or removing theirs.
So I guess the final set is as follows:
Dragonite (Lairon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Nature: Relaxed / Impish
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Defog / Whirlwind / Dragon Tail
- Metal Burst / Iron Head
What changed?
248 -> 252 HP (sin(pi) suggested recovering Multiscale in 2 turns after Rocks
Added Whirlwind/Dragon Tail for the 3rd moveslot

Also I thought Doublade x Dnite needed 220 to regain Multi after Rocks, but maybe I was wrong :]
~smellslikememe
Added!
Here's another unique set that I just recently been trying.

Venomoth (Salandit) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Sleep Powder / Energy ball

Salandit ===>Venomoth: Stats:58/54/50/121/60/122 Abilities:Shield Dust/Tinted Lens/Wonder Skin Type:Poison/Fire


This may seem like an odd choice from other Quiver Dancers, and trust me it is lol. But the point of this set is Tinted Lens! Fire / Poison isn't exactly godly or whatever offensively, but it smacks tons of stuff pretty hard after couple QD's. Such as being able to 2hko a lot of Bulky water types with just Fire Blast(My vaporeon onix spread with 252 HP / 240Spd+ takes 60%+ after one qd), sludge Wave is reliable stab. Last slot is personally based on what you think you need. energy ball is a more reliable way to best bulky water types, while Sleep powder helps it set up a bit more to bypass things like Type:Null that isn't nicknamed Quagsire lol.

I think it's probably C- rank as it requires a lot of support and can't switch in on anything at all due to its near paper-thin-bulk and SR weakness.
From my own experience with it, Salandit it's arguably better than Dwebble or Krabby. I think it belongs more in the C rank (not higher tho) especially because of its role on the newly discovered Quiver Dance spam teams.

Finally, I want to talk about some metagame trends!

Stall is back now that Lunala and especially Solgaleo are banned. Gen 7 stalls don't differ a lot from the ORAS ones (but they notably have adapted to Mega Gengar better), and have a line-up along the lines of Mega / Chansey / Doublade / Bug, Dark and Fighting counter / Unaware / filler.
  • Slot 1: Mega of choice. Stall in Cross Evolution is notable for its use of Mega Evolutions. Some of these are Mega Gengar (to take down opposing stall and balance cores with great durability, which won't fall to the rest of the team easily), Mega Slowbro (bulky wincon that can check some of the best wallbreakers in Cross Evolution), Mega Salamence (rare, bulky wincon with great durability vs. bulky teams and doesn't need a lot of support) and Mega Sableye (won't wall much by itself in Cross Evolution due to its underwhelming bulk, but can shut down a lot of defensive threats).
  • Slot 2: Chansey. Your premier special wall, that can also set up Stealth Rock or be the team's cleric. Often crossed with Chandelure, sometimes Decidueye. Be careful with Mega Gengar and pack a Shed Shell, or use Chansey x Decidueye and risk a nasty surprise from the likes of MixMar. Regardless of your choice, pure special attackers won't get past Chansey anytime soon.
  • Slot 3: Doublade. Your go-to physical wall. When crossed with Flygon, it is a great Defogger and can check some of the most threatening wallbreakers out there, such as Rhydon or Archen. Crossed with Dragonite, it can work as a phazer, cleric or wincon, and you have an easier time vs. Dark-types at the cost of losing to Electric-types (which should be seeing Chansey most of the time anyway) and common wallbreakers.
  • Slot 4: Bug, Dark and Fighting counter. Mostly Dark-types which pressure the Chansey + Doublade core, but also Breloom cross-evolutions in general. Fairy-types are pretty much your only options here: either Spritzee or Arceus-Fairy. Spritzee is an infamous wincon, and can pull off a defensive set that is a great cleric, freeing a moveslot on Chansey or Doublade. Support Arceus-Fairy is less bulky, but offers a really fast Will-O-Wisp and Defog, and an expansive movepool if you have a free moveslot for it.
  • Slot 5: Unaware. Self-explanatory, they counter set-up sweepers. Type:Null and Dusclops are arguably the best ones but they might have poor defensive synergy with the team, and that's where Sliggoo comes in. Each of them have different match-ups as well.
  • Slot 6: filler. Often a Primal Kyogre counter or something that patches up some of the team's weaknesses. Bulky Water-types are a popular option here.
Of course, you can build a stall team that doesn't follow this formula (e. g. starting with Shedinja) but chances are, your team will have a similar line-up at the end.


One of my recent ideas, Quiver Dance spam teams are proving to be threatening. Usually very offensive teams, they consist of a FWG core of 3 Quiver Dancers, each one with its different match-ups and uses, and some glues with or without a somewhat defensive core to check a few threats and provide Stealth Rocks and Defog. The goal of such teams is to sleep the opposing Chansey / Unaware and overwhelm it with boosted attacks, then sweep with one of the Quiver Dancers. VoltTurn support is key to the success of these teams, and VoltTurn Pokémon which can beat most Unaware users (such as Scyther x Crawdaunt) are excellent partners to the QD core.
In general, Quiver Dance spam teams are annoyed by Stealth Rock (a lot of Quiver Dancers are weak to Stealth Rock, which also breaks their Focus Sash) and priority attacks from offensive teams. Try to keep your Unaware healthy on more defensive builds.

EDIT: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7crossevolution-75734
Bot is far from the greatest player out there, but I think this replay is a pretty good example of how do Quiver Dance spam teams work.
 
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I got Belly Drum + Power Trip in Hackmons Cup and promptly swept (140BP at +6 OKHOs lots of stuff, although having Bulletproof helped as my opponent's bullet seed would probably have OKHO'd in a single hit). Is this viable in Cross Evolution? The most likely user I could find of it was Sandile x Linoone.
 
Probably not. I've tried a variety of Power Trip mons and they all disapoonted. The most useful one was Umbreon Pancham and even then it wasn't very good. You don't have all that many good bases for that, Krokorok is notably one of the second stage mons with the lowest BST, Sandile also isn't all that impressive and cross-evolving to Krookdile isn't all that great. Then we have Mankey and Pancham's line who don't have STAB on it, altough Cross-evolving into Pangoto makes you Dark.

Belly Drum doesn't seem like the best move to abuse this as not that many cool stuff can get it to work but that Linoone Sandile will probably have a super tough time setting up.
 
Well, Dusclops x Clefable can use Soft-boiled too. why wouldn't Sliggoo be allowed? Egg moves, Events, Past gens move tutors or w.e the "Illegal" thing is, IIRC are all ignored.

Edit: That means Pikachu crossevolving into something or something else crossevolving into Raichu can use both Surf + Espeed in the same moveset ;/
Dude, that means that something cross-evolving into Raichu or Pika cross-evolving into something can use FAKESPEED in the same moveset!

Edit: wait hold up

Raichu (Trumbeak) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Brave Bird
- Brick Break

Raichu (Trumbeak) @ Choice Band
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off / Brick Break
- U-turn / Knock Off

Stats: 80/120/65/80/80/95

motherfucker money dance
 
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Yup, altough in a ubers based meta with stuff like Flygon Doublade, Dragonite Dounlade, Flygon Magneton and now Dragonite Lairon on a lot of teams I doubt it would be any good.

List of other gimmicks I found out:
-Gallade Torracat (even if it is bugged and it doesn't allow it to use Justified), U-turn makes it better as a Choice user than Magmar in my eyes and it notably checks Gallade Klang and other Steel-Types.
-Masquerain Nosepass, yes this is gimmicky AF but it is a lot of fun and in can set-up on basically anything that isn't super effective or has massive attacking stats. Plus it also has a good support movepool.
-Accelgor Frilish, I first used Remoraid but I saw people using Frilish and outside of coverage it is objectively better. I've used other Water Spout/Eruption mons (Like Hydreigon Quilava) but Frillish is clearly best.
 
Dude, that means that something cross-evolving into Raichu or Pika cross-evolving into something can use FAKESPEED in the same moveset!

O.o lol what's the point of this post though? Other than repeating what I typed lol

Anyways, I've been testing some pokemon to Crossevo into floette to see what uses it may have. Floette is a forgotten fairy type due certain sets being outclassed by either Spritzee(Cleric and CM sets are better) and possibly Swirlix too, since Swirlix is able to do more than just Cleric / CM Sets(It can run a deadly hitmonlee set).

But anyways, the reason I picked Floette was because I wanted to try something different from the pokemon mentioned above(and xerneas) while also not messing up any synergy on my team.

Floette ===> Gardevoir: Stats:84/75/77/135/158/82 Abilities:Synchronize/Trace/Telepathy Type:Fairy

Gardevoir (Floette) @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD or 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Bold Nature / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Synthesis / Wish
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Aromatherapy / Protect / Calm Mind
- Moonblast

Floette ===> Tsareena: Stats:74/125/97/85/148/62 Abilities:Leaf Guard/Queenly Majesty/Sweet Veil Type:Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD (not entirely sure on the EVs to be honest so I just copied the one above)
Bold Nature / Impish Nature
- U-turn / Aromatherapy
- Synthesis
- Rapid Spin
- Moonblast / Play Rough

The ladder might not be viable at all, but it was something I thought was "unique" or "different" thinking about it now it might not be other than checking Bug/Dark/Fighting types and removing hazard kek. You can ignore this if you want ;)

Gardevoir however, has been pretty decent for me. The spread I use is to specifically keep certain fighting and dark types in check and I think it doesn't need too much investment in SpD but if you need another Spacial Defense wall it can very well do that too. it's now one of the few fairy types to have Wisp which just so happen to help its otherwise mediocre physical bulk. Trace as we all know has its perks, such as coping Intimidate, Marvel Scale, Levitate, Fur coat, Poison Heal(from Scyther Subpunch set), Regenerator etc. Synthesis is obvious instant recovery, but if you don't like the PPs and possiblity of rain + Sand hampering your recovery, Wish + Protect is also a option for recovery. But if you do choose Synthesis (like me) the third slot could allow it to act as either Cleric support or a potential cm sweeper. But as I already mentioned, it doesn't really have any real advantages over Spritzee / Swirlix / or maybe even Togetic lol. And then there's Arceus-Fairy who does something similar to Gardevoir but gives Defog support. So yea, Floette has some tough competitions. But like I said earlier in this post, I wanted to try something different.

I think Floette(Gardevoir) is probably C+ rank. It just faces HUGE competition for a slot due to other fairies types who either outright outclass it(Spritzee) or has more versatility to them(Swirlix / Arceus-Fairy)

Edit: Lmao I read your post wrong simsims2800. I thought you repeated Surf + Espeed.
 
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O.o lol what's the point of this post though? Other than repeating what I typed lol

Anyways, I've been testing some pokemon to Crossevo into floette to see what uses it may have. Floette is a forgotten fairy type due certain sets being outclassed by either Spritzee(Cleric and CM sets are better) and possibly Swirlix too, since Swirlix is able to do more than just Cleric / CM Sets(It can run a deadly hitmonlee set).

But anyways, the reason I picked Floette was because I wanted to try something different from the pokemon mentioned above(and xerneas) while also not messing up any synergy on my team.

Floette ===> Gardevoir: Stats:84/75/77/135/158/82 Abilities:Synchronize/Trace/Telepathy Type:Fairy

Gardevoir (Floette) @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD or 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Bold Nature / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Synthesis / Wish
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Aromatherapy / Protect / Calm Mind
- Moonblast

Floette ===> Tsareena: Stats:74/125/97/85/148/62 Abilities:Leaf Guard/Queenly Majesty/Sweet Veil Type:Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD (not entirely sure on the EVs to be honest so I just copied the one above)
Bold Nature / Impish Nature
- U-turn / Aromatherapy
- Synthesis
- Rapid Spin
- Moonblast / Play Rough

The ladder might not be viable at all, but it was something I thought was "unique" or "different" thinking about it now it might not be other than checking Bug/Dark/Fighting types and removing hazard kek. You can ignore this if you want ;)

Gardevoir however, has been pretty decent for me. The spread I use is to specifically keep certain fighting and dark types in check and I think it doesn't need too much investment in SpD but if you need another Spacial Defense wall it can very well do that too. it's now one of the few fairy types to have Wisp which just so happen to help its otherwise mediocre physical bulk. Trace as we all know has its perks, such as coping Intimidate, Marvel Scale, Levitate, Fur coat, Poison Heal(from Scyther Subpunch set), Regenerator etc. Synthesis is obvious instant recovery, but if you don't like the PPs and possiblity of rain + Sand hampering your recovery, Wish + Protect is also a option for recovery. But if you do choose Synthesis (like me) the third slot could allow it to act as either Cleric support or a potential cm sweeper. But as I already mentioned, it doesn't really have any real advantages over Spritzee / Swirlix / or maybe even Togetic lol. And then there's Arceus-Fairy who does something similar to Gardevoir but gives Defog support. So yea, Floette has some tough competitions. But like I said earlier in this post, I wanted to try something different.

I think Floette(Gardevoir) is probably C+ rank. It just faces HUGE competition for a slot due to other fairies types who either outright outclass it(Spritzee) or has more versatility to them(Swirlix / Arceus-Fairy)

Edit: Lmao I read your post wrong simsims2800. I thought you repeated Surf + Espeed.
also read my edit
i posted a surprisingly good set in there
 
also read my edit
i posted a surprisingly good set in there
I'm actually testing Trumbeak x Raichu as we speak lol. Maybe have tailwind slashed as the last option on the Silk scarf set? It could turn the ties in your favour maybe. And I don't particularly see any real advantages on the cb set over other espeed users tho. Munchlax and Type both can use Arcanine for espeed and both have setup options in the form of Belly drum / Swords Dance and better coverage to go with it. Fakespeed is Trumbeak's niche though.
 
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I got Belly Drum + Power Trip in Hackmons Cup and promptly swept (140BP at +6 OKHOs lots of stuff, although having Bulletproof helped as my opponent's bullet seed would probably have OKHO'd in a single hit). Is this viable in Cross Evolution? The most likely user I could find of it was Sandile x Linoone.
The closest viable thing that I can think of, and can do something similar is this:


Krookodile (Porygon2) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Moxie
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Trip
- Conversion
- Earthquake
- Recover

Yes, this is a legit set! Just make sure to remove Fairy-types first. While it's not Belly Drum, Z-Conversion allows you to become Dark-type and get a +1 buff to all stats, which makes it surprisingly fast and strong (we're talking about a physical Porygon2 after all) and bulky as well. With Z-Conversion boosts, Power Trip is "only" 120 BP, but that's were Moxie boosts come in, each one giving you a +1 rise to Attack and an extra 20 BP to Power Trip. Recover is nice since you'll probably take a lot of damage between setting up and random priority attacks, and Porygon2 can stand hits pretty well.
 
Egg moves, Events, Past gens move tutors or w.e the "Illegal" thing is, IIRC are all ignored.

That means Pikachu crossevolving into something or something else crossevolving into Raichu can use both Surf + Espeed in the same moveset ;/
Someone complained so I've updated ROM to try to validate the cross evolved moves too. Edit: Normal service has been resumed.
 
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