Resource Crown Tundra SS Ubers Viability Rankings

[Joseph Gomes]

Can we get a VR update before suspect testing Calyrex-S or Zacian-H please?

 

[Staxi]

Can we get a VR update before suspect testing Calyrex-S or Zacian-H please?

This isn't on the table for the moment and it makes more sense to update the VR after a potential big change in the tier.

 

[Hrishioo7]

nominating to C+/B-

k i mentioned this already in my post here and also Lunala explained it even more in here but even though i will explain this again.

Weavile generally likes choice band as the item but it could also use sd+lorb on ho maybe(i have tested out just cb so idk about sd set)

set

Weavile (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Triple Axel
- Knock Off
- Beat Up

Ok so while its ability is nothing great as it has no bulk but its typing and speed is what made me so much interested in it. Dark/Ice is nearly unresisted in the whole meta except for zamazenta-c which is unviable or to be specific rare. Knock off is a great move on its own in gen 8 as it helps applying pressure on opposing team's defogger's having hdb. those pokemon which resist knock are blasted with triple axel a 120 bp stab which is able to 2hko anything that resists knock. For the third moveslot ice shard was selected as its a great priority able to kill a wide array of pokemon such as zygarde, zekrom, groudon, and many more. Finally beat up was selected as the fourth move which made weavile totally unwalled.
Beat up with right team support 2hkoes otherwise walls- defensive kyogre/toxapex. during the zacian-h meta it was particularly hard to use weavile on a team but now with it gone its become much more easier to use it as the restrictions in teambuilding are reduced helping weavile get the exact support it needs. All this doesnt end here, weavile counters the rare sub seed caly shadow and allows yveltal to run sucker punch as without snarl/taunt yveltal loses to it. Alright this is its niche in the metagame now lets move on to the calcs-

calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 369-435 (114.9 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 348-420 (86.7 - 104.7%) -- approx. 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 228-273 (50 - 59.8%) -- approx. 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 462-549 (127.6 - 151.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. 16 HP / 36+ Def Zygarde: 304-364 (84.2 - 100.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

alright i didnt include beat up calcs in there cause every team has different set of mons so beat up's power is gonna vary but yes as i said yveltal, ndm, xerneas, ho-oh all support weavile well and have high attacking stats for beat up to reach 106 bp at least. In fact almost any ubers pokemon has a p good attacking stat.

About the teammates weavile likes, weavile for sure like hazards(stealth rocks, spikes etc). As beat up's power is reliant on healthy pokemon defensive xerneas makes an excellent partener as it also counters marshadow. Defog support is crucial and and dual defog is appreciated.

i have been trying this team a lot on ladder and i did find success with it

ignore the gxe i have been using that alt since i got the idea

i had about 115 bp beat up with the team i used

 

[probablytaken]

I know this sounds stupid, but zekrom is the best pokemon in the tier. If you use a choice scarf with jolly nature and 252 evs in attack and speed, it becomes god
Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Fusion Bolt
- Outrage
- Stone Edge

Does this set sound op? Because an even better one is choice specs zekrom with only protect


i made a team for this, it is almost mono dragon. I used gabite because i like gabite
https://pokepast.es/84d5ad52ebe6856c

 

[LBN]

So completely ignoring choice specs protect zekrom suggestion i'm going to make a LONG awaited Overhaul of the VR suggestion i've been wanting to do since it has seldom been updated since like febuary. This will be long btw, but i'll give a short form spoiler part at the bottom of it.

First, lemme with a couple small fry suggestion for the VR structure itself. Since these are not shifts, they don't have to be done but i do feel like they should be put up for discussion.

First off please update the sprites to SS, they look so much better. Lemme drop some comparisons to drive my point across really because honestly the SS sprites are more vibrant color wise, expressive, bigger and more detailed and there's no reason not to transition into them on any VR not named Natdex. I will also fist fight any person who disagrees with me this is factual undebatable knowledge you are a coward should you not agree with me.

Comparisons

And the second small fry, The introduction of the S- Tier. We had it in USUM i don't see why we cant have it here either. Who i think should go there will be discussed later but i do think S tier/A+ tier has pokemon that can be dropped or risen and are superior or inferior to whats around them. Idk bout ya'll though but S- as a rank looks raw idk if its just me tho.

ANYWAY Let's get onto actual nominations, there will be ALOT here since incase ya'll aint remember alot has changed since February or however long its been since a proper VR update. I'll be working my way up so i'll start with the bumcakes mons and go from there. First, lemme put some pokemon to go to UR off the metagame shifts that has recently happened (Goodbye dog, i hate you)

C- to UR
Corviknight already sucked at doing its main job of ""checking"" Zacian and imma be real i think it was only C- because it could be used with dugtrio for Zacian-CROWNED to get trapped. It has also not been used ONCE in UPL for the 5 weeks it's been happening so clearly im not alone in failing to see why its on the VR. Groudon trying to lure tangrowth started using overheat on the SD sets, cooking this scrap alive, and its even now running phys def sets with rocks which is also a rocker it cant defog on. It can defog on dusk mane but damn so can skarmory and it also complete setup bait either and skarm can also run spikes if it wants to, despite a spiky durian being better at it, which i'll get to soon.

C+ to C
Sadly the slug is suffering since people started realizing scarf kyogre sucks and started running things to adapt. Unfortunately for the slug this includes the sub calm mind 2 attacks set, which imo while hot but cakes in comparison to sub cm twave scald, which gastrodon hard walls, the resurgence of Ferrothorn means countering kyogre isn't as important with ferrothorn back on GIGACHAD DUTY as it used to, means it's usually enough to use Ferrothorn + Eternatus on your team to handle Kyogre just fine. Ferrothorn isn't a 100% stop though since it can get scald burned and start to struggle to keep up with Kyogre's pressure, so Gastrodon's niche isnt completely lost on me, so i think it deserves to stay on the VR. It also has zero UPL usage. ALSO MAKE THE SPRITE BLUE, PINK GASTRODON IS TRASH, AND SIMPLY INFERIOR TO THE ALPHA MALE BLUE GASTRODON.

C+ to C
This mon is so bad, even of stall. It's completely outdone by Lunala in every single way, it's vulnerability to knock off and status is a trait shared by lunala, but it's defensive prowess at handling things such as Zekrom, as Shadow shield cheats through teravolt, Zygod-100%, and Rayquaza, as well as SD Varients of Groudon, which no pokemon in the game does besides lunala. Lugia really only does Rayquaza, and ray isn't anywhere near as omnipotent as the other 3, despite it's threatening presence. Another issue Lugia has in comparison to lunala is its complete passivity. Lunala, despite mainly being defensive, has ways to exert offensive pressure with its ice beams, and potential hex, while lugia holds its pitiful 90 sp attacking stat to its chest as it cries itself to sleep at night. It truly does NOTHING better than lunala besides being faster and sadly Lunala is faster than all the things it's checking anyway so that doesnt even matter. Lunala just does lugia things better than lugia does. No UPL usage btw.

C+ to UR
The opposing Calyrex-Shadow used Trick! Porygon2 has received a choice scarf! The only reason im not tearing this thing to shreds nearly right now is its admitted is just barely passable at checking Zygod, but it's just not good enough at the job to me to stay here. Spikes are rising again with the rise of everybody's favorite Durian, which means this thing being unable to hold boots stands out much much more than before. Also it doesnt beat Calyrex-Shadow reliably enough either since its asking for trick so badly it'd make a grown man cry. Also knock is EVERYWHERE in attempts to cripple a certain rainbow bird from a similar era, so enjoy never feeling safe infront of Dusk mane, ferroCHAD, and yveltal either. Just use blissey guys. No upl usage either btw.

C to C-
You know sometimes I'm almost sorry for you losing heart swap but then i remember i actually hate everything about you so it actually makes me happy as can be! Grudges against this war criminal aside, It just doesn't really do much. Alot of games it feels like dead weight, maybe pulling off a heal bell and volt switching out a couple times, softly checking xerneas with eerie impulse pain split sets, but beyond that it just feels like a suboptimal Clefable, which is not vulnerable to hazards, holds knock off for offensive pressure, checks yveltal just as well if not better with its reliable recovery, is also a cleric and generally more effective on teams, who i will also get to soon because that mon is hot, no droughts :100: The only reason i'm sparing it from Zamazenta's buttcakes land of D rank is because it can handle both yveltal and xerneas which is nice on certain stalls, but i can definitely see it going there. Plus it actually has UPL usage so it holds merrit to some ppls eyes still, 2 infact!

C- to UR
Black and white 2 was nearly a decade ago ya'll can let it go now. Up next on our NO UPL usage saga, we got this thing. This pokemon is weird because like, It's ok at checking the cosmic power etern set and kyogre in the same slot w haze, but the thing is it's lack of great recovery tools, even in rain dish rain, it's vulnerability to hazards making its longevity suspect. If it trades this out for boots its now in a race against the clock to beat kyogre and etern in time before they have chipped it down too low to do its job. It's spinning is kinda cool since we kinda don't do spinning around these parts aside from Excadrill which i will get to aswell, and thats a lead. Ain't checking xerneas this lifetime thanks to thunder, even if you dodge it your better off dodging it with a ho-oh instead and just using ho-oh because ho-oh is stupid good. I just don't think spin is a good enough reason to keep it afloat on the VR with no usage recently to add insult to injury.

C+ to B-
Meet the premier webs setter, with it's boons of magic coat mindgames and a self destructing move, as well as unburden making it easier to get webs up, as well as yawn to put pressure on setup sweepers trying to use it as setup fodder. It saw great usage in the ladder tour as most HO specific mons do, and when webs were brought most of the time this was the pick, and when it wasn't ribombee was apparently the next choice. I'm not gonna nominate it though because imma be real i ain't 100% sold on Ribombee but im definitely sold on Slurpuff. It's by far the best setter of webs and webs is likely the best varient of hyper offense in the tier, so slurpuff deserves the rise to match with Webs status in the tier as it sees fit.

C to C+
And now meet slurpuffs best friend. Slurpuff lacking rocks doesn't really matter that much when you got this demon to facilitate it. With a set of Stealth rocks, Earth power, Rock slide/Defog and Explosion, it's able to manage to beat/cuck all the defoggers in the tier, and abuse the webs set by it's favorite parfait. Landorus is still a power house, and it likes the presence of anti webs pokemon such as boots Eternatus and Ho-oh to manipulate. Scarf Yveltal still blows though. Against the defogger rising in popularity in Giratina-Origin, explosion may not hurt it but it's main purpose is primarily to stop defog, it doesn't have to do damage, that's just a good bonus. Regardless it's ability to facilitate Webs is unmatched and thus deserves its rise.

B- to B
Now meet OU's Chad. This Pokemon has been popping off lately, being a nice stopgap to support groudon on the rise, setting or removing rocks, being a passable check to Zekrom, and still as good a pivot as ever. It being another rocker which beats defog Ho-oh is huge as you suck if you cant. Alternate options like knock off and toxic are fantastic, especially toxic as all of the toxic immunities don't exactly glee at switching into landorus-t earthquakes. It still has base 145 attack after all, they'll still sting even the tiers most clamored names, such as Eternatus and Necrozma-DM. It's actually impressive usage thus far in UPL either doesn't seem to change in the near future, so i find it also deserve the rise alongside its more ugly form (dont @ me)

B- to C+
Remember when i said webs was the premier form of hyper offense? yea poor froslass. remember when i also said everybody's favorite durian is back in business? yea poor froslass. Jabs aside Froslass simply isn't as good at facilitating hyper offense as slurpuff is, as spikes is seen much more prominently now at least in balance teams thanks to Forretress done correctly. It's not terrible of course as spikes alongside grimmsnarl screens is still a solid team, but it's not solid enough to validate a B- rating, and i do think it deserves to go down to compensate. Speaking of not solid enough for where it is...

B to B-
Much like froslass, screens have seen a dip in quality over time in favor of the sigma male slurpuff as the HO of choice, and its once again hurting from it. Obviously, it's not terrible, as it still has solid traits such as actually being an alright Caly-GG switchin (as far as caly-g switchins on this fcking VR go) and is pretty good at setting screens up more than 1 time. Although the rise of spikes once again blows for the caly-g checking bit, as without holding light clay it'll be in the same kinda hell it's dealing with in UU rn. It's still solid but i do think it's not worthy of a B rank. But guess who be having it worse rn in B rank?

B to C-/UR
Alot of things happen since like February huh? 2 ubers bans, entire metagame ruptures because shifts simply to not cut it as a description LMAO, and in that time buzzwole has gone from a literal chad to little timmy drawing with off brand crayons he got at giant tiger. So many things simply haven't gone buzzwoles way in this time period. The emergence of phys def support groudon with overheat/lava plume over the double dance sets of old remove one thing it was "ok" at handling, the common use of dd dtail zygarde (your welcome btw) putting another thorn in Buzzwole's side, this mon sucked at beating Zekrom before and it still does now! Yo how's it handling Marshadow though? Actually pretty well wtf only 35-41 i didnt know that I'd still sooner use Tangrowth though! The rise in spikes from your favorite durian aswell as the more common use of knock definitely makes things worse for it especially since Necrozma is an ideal pokemon to click roost on otherwise, but it doesn't exactly want to take a knock. It just feels like a barely good enough check to things except Marshadow which is why i feel like it belongs at such at drastic drop. The shifts are just not good for it, and while this might look like overkilling the swole ant, trust me this thing is buns. wait i almost forgot to mention no upl usage btw

B to B+
MODEST. CHOICE SPECS. This mon is FLAMES i love it so much. Kills the entire tier on a right call besides blissey and when has a blissey made me care? I'MMA JUST CRIT FISH WOOOOOOO. Jokes asides (except im not kidding) this mon is terrifying. Specs draco, power gem fire blast and thunder gives it perfect coverage to do so much work against this tier. Really only blissey is a good counter and while no flash cannon means xerneas can switch in, it's taking enough to where it definitely isnt doing it again, and it doesn't exactly wish to switch in either on a wrong call since your still dealing like 45-60% or something. The banning of Zacian is a boon for it as a steel type as Necrozma doesn't have to be your automatic choice, and people are realizing again that we still need to make our dusk manes phys def LMAO. Thanks caly-ice and zekrom, yous the best

B to B+
Ya'll really like to build caly-ice weak teams. (It's me, im yall) With a set of sub leech seed glacial lance and SD, it was able to turn necrozma choke holded into max max phys def to beat the stupid mutt as its main answer as fodder for it. However with the dog being chokeholded by the Council and sent to peta for "rescue care" It can now run some speed to creep it. That doesn't mean it's still not being undersold though. Without Zacian ppl are getting very hasty in cheating their Caly-ice answers and Ferrothorn definitely isn't the answer ya'll think it is. FINALLY SOMETHING THE DURIAN CANT DO! Choice banded sets can still be threatening aswell, as can all the other sets it holds, even if it got a little worse with Zacian going i still think it deserves the rise, it's just being slightly less undersold than before. So many replays i can open up and look back at subseed caly-ice and realize they really just pretend this thing doesn't exist huh. Kyogre is ok at checking it but it ain't okay enough!

B+ to B
This thing ain't bad really but it shouldn't be B+. It's main role as a suicide lead that handles opposing HO is great and it's still great at it, but alot of times rocks as your lead for HO isn't as strong of a start as it was in older gens because apparently the government decided to give everybody a pair of timbs to wear to school, and nothing takes rocks anymore than fears em. Ik thats common sense but it's a fact that excadrill suffers from. Spinning, however, is what excadrill shines in, but being Anti HO is also relevant on how good HO is, and while it's good it's not B+ good. Especially since when it's not fighting HO it kinda flops a bit.

B to B+
Necrozma ain't running phys def? SAY LESS. Thing is a nuke dawg. Life orb 4 attacks has no switchins atall and is great at smashing open holes on balance. Draco meteor dragon ascent V-create and espeed can claim nearly anything in tandem with eachother on your common balances except ttar, and you still gotta fear EQ anyway, and Balance is great in the meta rn, dominant, even. It also has the option of setup sets with either SD or DD, aswell as sash sets paired with your buddy Driller like it does in ORAS and USUM. It's also a solid webs abuser itself, as slowing its things down like caly-GG means all its sets get even better at going to town. It's on par to me with Calyrex-ice in the way it just dismantles teams without remorse or pause.

C+ to C-/UR
What's this thing doing up here. Mon is not good, walled eternally by eternatus, and every ground imaginable, even wooper. what a good boy i love you wooper. Screens? Just use Grimmsnarl. Being a screener with spin and boom is cool but that isnt as cool as you think it is when that means you dont even have electric stab, and giving up either is a painful pick because you either let ferrothorn run train on you or defoggers like ho-oh are annoying. Still forever zygarde bait, and nothing is as deadly as giving zygod free turns. It's hazard controlling game is pretty mid aswell as i'd sooner just use driller as a "zekrom check" which it actually is funnily enough, just not a great one lmao. Still better than this wack ass mon. Give it hidden power then i'll come back to this convo.

C+ to B-/B
DADA. Say hello to both a Caly-GG, zygarde, and Kyogre check all in one. While not perfect at the role at any of them, it being solid enough vs most varients of Zygarde, nearly all Caly-GG varients, and any GOOD defensive kyogre sets, aka sub cm scald and twave/resttalk cm. It's not dead weight either as it's fairly solid as doing decent damage assuming you've put some manor of pressure on etern and ideally yveltal but not always needed. Kyogre is actually good w Dada as its solid at abusing the thunder waves kyogre spreads. It's also a pokemon thats fantastic against stall thanks to jungle healing, making it so passively wearing it down isnt really an option, and the stall player has to be playing way more proactive than it would want to. It's also insanely popular in UPL, which i havent mentioned in a little so i felt i should :smile:

UR to C/C+/B-
This pokemon has appreciated the meta game trends recently so heavily. The rise of ferrothorn is huge for it, the continued use of fat yveltal, the need for clerics, and the recent loss of a fairy type has come together to make clef once again a heater choice. it's ability to spread knock off, be great at wars of attrition due to its combination of magic guard and cleric support, it's ability to worsen it's opponents ability with knock or even trick sticky barb. It's almost ALWAYS useful thanks to specifically it's yveltal walling/checking capabilities and its cleric support. It's notable wins in UPL this week by me and lunala, links below to the replays to me showcase just how effective it is right now, and i don't see that changing. I might be overselling it a bit but hey if im wrong and it pulls a tangrowth and plateaus oh well rn im standing by this being an up n coming star. It's also a great rocker.

Replays

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ubers-premier-league-ix-week-5.3686144/post-8890922 me vs bouff
wdym this isnt a replay, it's a link to the replay? IDC LIKE MY WINPOST CLOWNS.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ubers-566374 lunala's replay

Lemme do some quickfire ones that i'm not sure i'm confident enough to stand my ground on just yet, or i feel like might still deserve to stay or im too lazy to provide replays for the magnet/agreeing with the previous post

C+ to UR

C to UR

C- to D

C+ to C

C+ to C

B to B-

B- to B

UR to C/C+

UR to C/C+

Anyway, now for the Big fish, the A rank related noms. I don't think anything deserves to rise up here, but i think some shifts within and a drop should be mentioned for these ranks.

A- to B+
This pokemon biggest niche was to be an offensive check to kyogre with minimal switchins, however it doesn't really do that check to kyogre thing well atall anymore now that they are mostly all running either twave or cm or both. Losing one of it's main edges over it's competition is a big blow to palkia, however it's still got it's fantastic offensive presence, which is only really curved well by blissey, however another set has popped up in the form of the sub bulk up scale shot set, which has solid anti-meta use in abusing the current metagame trends. It hasn't seen much use yet successfully though but i'm confident it's capable of performing well eventually to take a game and put it on the map more clearly. Regardless of this set though, Palkia is often suffering from its lack of recovery options, leaving it liable to being worn down quickly, or revenge killed fairly easily by the omnipresent eternatus, or the broken caly-GG. It's not a bad pokemon atall but i do think it's sticking out like a sore thumb in the A ranks, and doesn't bring enough to the table to make it worth enough.

A to A+
This pokemon is a fantastic pick on so many teams right now, and even as a defensive pokemon it's moves are so good that many teams are liable to fold to it without a zygod. Alot of sets have popped up or seeing discussions over the weeks, defensive stealth rocks, bulk up sets of either rest or sub/dragon tail, the old SD sets and the still relevant double dance sets. The fall of tangrowth back down gives ppl more room to mess around with these sets and has gained the splashability factor it lacked, opening up rocks for dusk mane is a blessing as necrozma is often starving for a slot to open up for moves such as DD, knock, SD, toxic/twave, and EQ, beyond the required steel stab + recovery. It's also a nice soft check to Eternatus, though alot of times this shouldn't be done unless emergency strikes again and you got nothing better. it's also a fantastic check to demon Zekrom, Necrozma-DM, and just fantastic at the things it does. I can't stress enough how good this pokemon is, and is worthy of going up to A+

A to A+
I cannot stress how much of a chad ferrothorn is. I've gassed this thing as the gatekeep chad for a solid batch of these pokemon and is now thriving more than ever thanks to the removal of the stupid german shepherd. It being able to be the Steel of choice of a solid bunch of teams is amazing, It's back in full force to do ferrothorn things and i honestly don't even feel like i gotta explain myself, ya'll know how good ferrothorn is in the previous gens well it's just as good now. Gigachad Ferrogoat. LETS GET IT BUDDY WOOOOOOOOOOOO

These next ones are on the assumption ya'll actually do make a S- Tier, otherwise this next batch doesn't matter.

S to S-
Simply a case of being worse than the others in the S club. It's still pressured into running similar sets as before thanks to Zekrom and Calyrex-ice, except it's not forced like it was with the dog. it's still wanting to be physically inclined, limiting the offensive capabilities it could make use of in the generation prior. It's gift of dragon dance is a blessing even on defensive sets, as it ends up turning into a snowballing defensive threat. However, with all that in mind it still hampered by multiple things. First, Ferrothorn is finally giving is some solid competition for its role as a steel type, which it just couldnt do with Zacian around, as it just wasn't good enough. Eternatus being more freed up for offensive sets thanks to Ferrothorn holding kyogre back more gives necrozma's skill of checking it a larger fear. Groudon's even bigger presence, as well as being the main target for things to want to beat means its liable to be stretched thin at best and lured to oblivion at worst. It's still a fantastic pick, but it isn't tier warping presences/defining as the top 3 of eternatus/yveltal/caly-GG

A+ to S-
I got flamed for this before for saying this BUT IMMA SAY IT AGAIN. Zygarde's one of the most terrifying pokemon in the tier, and one of the most lethal. The fall of tangrowth, the departure of Zacian, so many things have gone its way recently it's crazy. Ferrothorn's popularity is yet ANOTHER mon its going to fold with its setup sets, namely the waves masterclass, and the dd dtail set. The dd dtail set is insanely good for being able to cheat past some of its only answers, namely Lunala, and Zarude. Zygarde's ability to sub up on a huge chunk of the tier provides its the ability to constantly faze lunala out on its ice beam attempts, and if you've managed to get a DD AND a sub up, its forced to not be able to faze you like it'd want to. Ho-oh is invalidated in its fazing attempts, while switching in is proven worthless alot of times by just getting fazed right back out into more setup food. Which this loop is amplified even further by the prominence of ferrothorn on its own side, providing the spikes support and added offensive pressure. Groudon's rise also brings further light to the phys def set, as it's one on the only things who can handle almost all of groudon's sets. I will gas this pokemon forever, it's so good at what it does.

can also go to S- but i'm also not sure on this one so, i won't put my argument for it.

Regardless, i think that's everything i've wanted to say on this. Also i did say i'd put a spoiler hidden TLDR noms for those who don't want to scroll through this essay, so that'll be below, regardless, this VR needs an overhaul update and everything i mentioned here is what i think could change, while we aren't as big of a tier as OU in terms of both pokemon and players, esp without arceus, i don't think VR updates need to happen too frequently, but the length its taken was just kinda an unacceptable length of time. like even as im posting this Zacian-hero is still listed like cmon. Rant over, go like all my posts i've ever posted it'll make me laugh :smile:

TLDR

S- Rank
SS Sprites Added

to UR

to C

to C

to UR

to C-

to UR

to B-

to C+

to B

to C+

to B-

to C-/UR

to B+

to B+

to B

to B+

to C-/UR

to B-/B

to C/C+/B-

to B+

to A+

to A+

to potential S-

to potential S-
-----------------------------------------------
Rapidfire noms not elaborated on/sure of

to C-/UR

to UR

to D

to C

to C

to B-

to B

to C/C+

to C/C+

to potential S-

 

[Icemaster]

Sorry for the delay since the last update. Due to the metagame shifts and Zacian ban since the last VR update, we decided to rerank the entire VR to make it more accurately reflect the metagame. In the meantime, steelskitty left the VR council - thank you for your contributions, and Lacus Clyne joined it, welcome. You can see the full voting slate here. In cases where there wasn't a clear modal rank, we decided to average the votes instead.

Rises
Groudon: A → A+
Zekrom: A → A+
Marshadow: A- → A
Tyranitar: B → B+
Calyrex-Ice: B → B+
Mewtwo: B- → B
Landorus-Therian: B- → B
Zarude: C+ → B
Slurpuff: C+ → B
Landorus-Incarnate: C → B
Solgaleo: D → C-
Zamazenta-Crowned: D → C
Clefable: UR → C+
Magnezone: UR → C+
Chansey: UR → C+
Suicune: UR → C+
Weavile: UR → C
Hydreigon: UR → C
Garchomp: UR → C
Thundurus-Therian: UR → C-

Subrank Rises:
Eternatus: 4th in S → 2nd in S
Kyogre: 2nd in A+ → 1st in A+
Blissey: 3rd in A- → 1st in A-


Drops
Xerneas: A+ → A
Palkia: A- → B+
Buzzwole: B → B-
Grimmsnarl: B → C+
Shuckle: B- → C+
Shedinja: B- → C
Lugia: C+ → C-
Kyurem-Black: C+ → C
Porygon 2: C+ → C
Tapu Bulu: C+ → UR
Amoonguss: C → C-
Tentacruel: C → UR
Genesect: C- → D

Subrank Drops:
Calyrex-S: 2nd in S → 3rd in S
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 3rd in S → 4th in S
Zygarde-Complete: 1st in A+ → 2nd in A+

New VR:

S Rank

Yveltal
Eternatus
Calyrex-Shadow
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane

A Rank

A+
Kyogre
Zygarde-Complete
Groudon
Zekrom

A
Xerneas
Ho-Oh
Marshadow
Ferrothorn

A-
Blissey
Lunala

Reminder that Pokemon below A Rank are no longer ordered by Viability within their subranks.

B Rank

B+

Calyrex-Ice
Excadrill
Palkia
Tyranitar

B
Darmanitan-Galar
Dialga
Dracovish
Giratina-Origin
Landorus-Incarnate
Landorus-Therian
Mewtwo
Rayquaza
Slurpuff
Urshifu Single-Strike
Zarude

B-
Buzzwole
Ditto
Froslass
Giratina-Altered
Tangrowth

C Rank

C+
Chansey
Clefable
Grimmsnarl
Galvantula
Gastrodon
Magnezone
Kyurem-White
Pheromosa
Reshiram
Regieleki
Shuckle
Skarmory
Suicune
Toxapex

C

Aerodactyl
Cloyster
Dugtrio
Garchomp
Heatran
Hydreigon
Kyurem-Black
Magearna
Mew
Porygon2
Shedinja
Weavile
Zamazenta-Crowned



C-
Amoonguss
Corviknight
Lugia
Naganadel
Solgaleo
Thundurus-Therian
Xatu

D Rank

A reminder that these Pokemon are only Ubers by tiering and possess no real metagame niche.

Cinderace
Genesect
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Spectrier
Zamazenta-Hero

 

[Lasen]

Remember what they took from you...

Also, this slate was less funny than previous ones, I miss Nayrz and Reje dearly.

On a more serious note, I'd love to see the reasoning as to why S rank changed in the way that it did. Groudon genuinely feels like a top 5 mon right now, it's honestly baffling more people aren't picking it up given how good its Bulk Up set is. Weavile and Suicune rising into VR, huzzah! Also I have no idea how buzzwole dropped, this mon actually does so much right now... Definitely an interesting turn of events and I can't wait for the final 2-3 weeks of UPL to add that cherry on top for the VR!

 

[TheNegotiator]

Why did Zamazenta-C rise? That was honestly a shock

Also, I suprised Zekrom rose. I thought it would drop after Zacian was banned and the Necrozma-DM + Yveltal + Eternatus core would become less popular.

 

[Hrishioo7]

Why did Zamazenta-C rise? That was honestly a shock

Also, I suprised Zekrom rose. I thought it would drop after Zacian was banned and the Necrozma-DM + Yveltal + Eternatus core would become less popular.

As there isn't zacian in ubers anymore zamazenta-c has some niche as a knock off absorber, a side check to eternatus, check to defensive xerneas etc.

Zekrom is still an awesome mon and I always adore it. The substitute sets can attempt to break through lunala(it's a mind game either to bstrike after dd predicting ice beam else go for sub predicting wisp even though lunala with roar does counter zekrom) while the lorb sets 2hko defensive xerneas and Draco meteor does a lot to defensive groudon leaving ferrothorn and lunala as the only counters and now that necrozma-dusk mane doesn't have to be physically defensive anymore(even tho some teams can still run it) zekrom has less counters than before

 

[TheNegotiator]

As there isn't zacian in ubers anymore zamazenta-c has some niche as a knock off absorber, a side check to eternatus, check to defensive xerneas etc.

Zekrom is still an awesome mon and I always adore it. The substitute sets can attempt to break through lunala(it's a mind game either to bstrike after dd predicting ice beam else go for sub predicting wisp even though lunala with roar does counter zekrom) while the lorb sets 2hko defensive xerneas and Draco meteor does a lot to defensive groudon leaving ferrothorn and lunala as the only counters and now that necrozma-dusk mane doesn't have to be physically defensive anymore(even tho some teams can still run it) zekrom has less counters than before

Thanks for the response! Yeah Zekrom seems to still be great, I never thought of how the decrease in physically defensive Necrozma-DM would benefit Zekrom in that regard.

On a side note, I wonder if Zekrom will still be able to keep up if Primal Groudon, Arcues forms, and Megas return.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Zekrom is still an awesome mon and I always adore it. The substitute sets can attempt to break through lunala(it's a mind game either to bstrike after dd predicting ice beam else go for sub predicting wisp even though lunala with roar does counter zekrom) while the lorb sets 2hko defensive xerneas and Draco meteor does a lot to defensive groudon leaving ferrothorn and lunala as the only counters and now that necrozma-dusk mane doesn't have to be physically defensive anymore(even tho some teams can still run it) zekrom has less counters than before

I agree, Zekrom has very few checks with Life orb set. Bolt Strike is extremely OP given how few pokemon resist it. Ferrothorn is probably the only reliable counter.

 

[Manaphy]

Hello everyone,
Now that my team is out of UPL, I have a lot more freedom/time to discuss my thoughts about the current state of the meta. I always got positive responses to these types of posts ever since I started doing them all the way back to when SS came out, and it’s pretty fun for me to make them so here we are.

Maybe it’s just because I have done well in the tier recently (6-1 in UPL AND MY STIMULUS CHECK CAME IN?? WOOOO!!!!), but I legitimately feel like the meta has improved quite a bit ever since Zacian-Hero got banned. I definitely feel that teams can be more creative in their cores and still not autolose to CB Zacian. With Nec being able to go specially defensive, Xerneas is already pretty much covered, and with Zacian gone, you don’t need a secondary check for it anymore; these two factors alone give you a lot more freedom in what you have to work with.

Calyrex-S is of course extremely strong, but I am not sold either way on if it’s ban worthy or not. Whereas Zacian felt like it added nothing of value to the tier, Calyrex-S by itself keeps the majority of HO at bay. You can determine for yourself if this is a good or a bad thing, but after last year’s UPL where it literally came down to who Screens HO’d the other.... I definitely don’t mind the change lol. On the dialgas, we tried HO several times, but the only real successes we had where with builds that were inherently stronger vs. Caly-S, such as Hydreigon Webs or Blissey/Chansey HO, and I think others got similar results. I usually feel that Balance vs. Balance games come down more to skilled play than compared with HO, which seems more matchup-fishy, although it is of course important to keep some HO around for variety. Caly also provides cleric support, which is rare and extremely valuable in the tier. Role compressing being a revenge killer, cleric, and strong wincon all into one mon is huge for building (although it’s important not to rely on Calyrex-S revenge killing to make up for weaknesses in your team structure).

But after playing so many games, I think the most broken aspect of Caly-S is the ability to trick while also doing all of the aforementioned things. In literally 4 of the games I played in UPL (Ballfire, Crucify, Fogbound Lake, TrueNora), I tricked with Calyrex early, since it’s revenge killing ability was not needed. From there, I was able to play the game out to my favor in every case. Given an even matchup, if one team has one of their mons tricked a choice item and the other team doesn’t... it always comes down to a huge advantage for the non-tricked team. There are, of course, limitations to this, such as your own Caly being able to revenge kill much less, needing to be careful about using Knock Off, not being Tricked a Black Sludge, etc... but the advantages seem much more rewarding than any drawback this option has. Yveltal may seem to be sturdy enough to deal with Calyrex most of the time, even when its tricked, but of course this gets a lot more sketchy with rocks up, and Calyrex players can take advantage of predicted Roosts to fish for a free kill. And this is not even going into the potential of the Subseed set.
Ultimately, for the time being I remain very torn on Calyrex, I definitely do not see it as broken in the sense that it does have reliable (enough) counters, but it’s ability to Trick as well as the teambuilding pressure it creates is certainly remarkable.

Anyway, I wanted to talk about my thoughts on the Viability Rankings, up to the B+ rank because I'm not that insane. I'm going to slightly reorder things for how I feel about the meta at the moment. I hope I can change some of your opinions on the meta and maybe you can get some interesting sets to try for yourself, or just be generally entertained


S Rank

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For my S rank, I don’t think theres any better way to determine the order than by how much each mon is needed for team structures. After all, isn’t that one of the main points of a VR ranking in the first place? This is why I don’t wanna hear any “wahhhhhh why is Caly not number 1” comments - Caly is obviously the most potentially "broken" part of the current meta, but that's a different metric.

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Yveltal is the highest on the VR ranking in the tier for being the best mon at dealing with Calyrex. However, the aspect of Yveltal that doesn’t get enough attention is that it accomplishes many other things on the side. Yveltal has become the main defogger in the tier (especially with Ho-Oh taking a hit with Zacian gone), gives you Knock Off support, has reliable recovery, can give you momentum with U-Turn, keep Groudon at bay with Foul Play (damn nice rhyme), stallbreak with Taunt, and can even use Toxic or Block as surprise support options. Yveltal also forms a critical part of HO teams as it can switch into Calyrex and still keep the offensive pressure up remarkably well. I tend to go with Taunt or U-Turn Yveltal, as that deals the best with Subseed Caly while still giving you momentum against everyone else (Snarl just sucks so hard). Choice Scarf Yveltal is also a neat option that trolls Calyrex trying to get a trick off, and it autowins the Webs matchup. Although it’s usage tanked with Zacian being banned, I think it still has merit on certain Ho-Oh/other defogger teams. You really can't get away from Yveltal bar Dada teams.

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You might be surprised to see this as my 2nd ranked mon after Zacian got banned, but I think NDM still forms a critical part of teambuilding in the current tier that is very hard to avoid. It is extremely hard to deal with Xerneas, Offensive Etern, and especially the Ice-types like Caly-I and Darmanitan without NDM. There really is no comparable Steel-type in the tier, and now NDM can do this while also gaining you momentum by spreading status with Twave and setting Rocks. A big part of why mons like Zekrom, Groudon, and Zygarde are so threatening is that they are immune to Twave and can come into NDM with no issues. This is still favorable for the NDM user, since as long as they have solid checks to those mons, NDM can gain momentum with rocks up; however, these are some of the hardest mons to consistently check in the tier, with their huge variety of possible sets. There’s been a bit of a trend recently of having other Rock users on your team to free NDM up to run another move such as Knock Off, and I’d expect this trend to continue further. Still, the combination of paralysis + rocks is a very powerful one, and people began to realize that it works even better using Iron Head for it’s flinch chance and superior PP. The reason it got so popular is that it prevents the most common defogger in the tier, Yveltal, from being able to consistently keep rocks off the field without risking it’s own ability to check Caly or even keep itself alive. I learned this the hard way during seasonals when TJ just sat there and sunsteeled my ass in our of our games.

Additionally, NDM’s offensive abilities are not to be underestimated, especially since it comes packing with base 157 attack. Tony legitimately just threw a CB on it and it actually worked lmao. Dragon Dance sets featured as a staple on HO teams before Zacian got banned, as the fairies were very fast and powerful and thus could threaten to sweep HO. With Zacian gone and GeoXern taking a hit in viability, I don’t see DD Nec as an HO mainstay anymore, especially given that Calyrex just bops it. I still see the set as potentially useful, though. SD NDM has been a somewhat uncommon, but extremely strong wallbreaker, and it’s only gotten more viable with Zacian gone. It’s able to function well enough at checking things like Ice-types, and at the same time, it’s very difficult for very fat teams to do much to it if it just sits there and SDs in your face. Pokemon like Lunala or Tangrowth hate that NDM can knock it, and NDM is immune to toxic and doesn’t really mind paralysis that much, and can heal itself, so it’s a great tool to just sit there and kill things. Finally, while it may seem odd, I think Physically Defensive sets have a use specifically in combination with Blissey. Blissey covers Xerneas and Offensive Etern easily, so you might as well put those EVs into your defense stat to better deal with the Ice-types, as well as giving NDM the ability to sorta check Zekrom with helmet and EQ. As an aside, I think people need to realize that Speed is a very important factor for NDM to check certain Calyrex-Ice sets such as Band or Subseed, which can nearly autowin otherwise.

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I already talked about this mon a lot above, but yeah, it’s really good. There’s a reason I used this mon in four of my UPL games lmao. By far the best revenge killer, cleric, and wincon in the tier. Like I said before, given an even MU, if you Trick a choice item to the opposing team and they can’t/don’t do it back to you, it already gives a massive advantage to you regardless of if it leads to a Caly sweep or not. It basically makes the game start at 6-5, which is pretty insane. I think the Scarf set is a lot more useful than Specs given it’s ability to revenge kill nearly anything in the game, but also, giving the opponent a scarf tends to be a lot less risky than giving them a Choice Specs. Specs can still have uses for revenging more slower but bulkier mons like Groudon. This mon doesn’t have a ton of variety to it but what it can do already is amazing. I’ve seen people slot Nasty Plot >> Aromatherapy and it could potentially work after a trick. Although you don’t even need Nasty Plot to still be able to finesse some kills with a Trick.
Focus Sash NP sets have a decent niche on webs for being able to usually smash thru Yveltal (I believe only full HP/sdef or Sucker will beat it), and may even be usable on a balance team if built around.

While we’re here, lets talk about Subseed. If you talk to Reje, he will make it sound like Subseed is one of the craziest mons in the tier, and yet I have barely seen it all UPL. I think I saw it one time when Gareeb used it, and all I remember was it dying after missing one of it’s Leech Seeds lol. Keep in mind barely anyone has been using Snarl, so the potential out there for it is crazy strong. I definitely do think the set is good, yet I feel like some players overhype it’s strengths while other players basically ignore it entirely. For the vast majority of the playerbase, they imagine/use the Subseed set as Sub/Seed/Nasty Plot/Astral. One of the flaws of the NP set is that you have to rely on Astral Barrage’s low PP, and that can get pretty shoddy with Eterns around. This also means you get into an awkward situations with a Normal type, usually Blissey. It will turn it into a game of “when will Blissey switch out to get rid of Leech Seed and I astral”, which can get pretty annoying. You’ll still get a bunch of kills with it, though. Fact is that a lot of teams don’t prepare for this mon in the meta at all. Your average Etern/Nec/Yve/Zyg teams will get blown tf out. What I like to do personally to prep against this is to either run Taunt, which, while not perfect against this set, will still give you strong counterplay against it, or by running U-Turn and having a scarfer/Sneak user. It’s true that U-Turn can be EV’d for by the Caly user (running HP is pretty easy, so you can EV your Sub to always take less than 25% from U-Turn), but this is also true of the Yveltal user, so it goes both ways. Snarl is just so terrible that I try to avoid it at all costs.

Hex/Taunt is another variation of the set that Reje has a hardon for. It gives you a lot more PP and it keeps the pressure on by preventing anything from healing, even Blissey. But without the ability to boost your Special Attack, you’re going to need some favorable factors for this to work imo, like having a bunch of paralysis/toxic spread around and/or having some hazards up. The fact that Leech Seed can miss and only has 16 PP means you really need any Taunt Caly to start getting things going relatively quickly. But the fact that you’d shut down even Taunt Yveltal makes the set pretty scary in theory.

When using any different Caly set, you also miss out on all of the factors that makes regular choice Caly so borked - the revenge killing ability, cleric, and trick ability all into one. Because of this, you basically have to make a team designed around them, and even then it may not work even regardless of if their Yveltal have Snarl or not, which is why these sets are still so rare. Still, I think they’re underrated and I’d like to see them used more.

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Eternatus was the last on my S ranking mons list because it’s the least needed of the big 3 core. As a kyogre check, Eternatus really does not do a good job - Specs will just blast thru it with Blizzard or Ice Beam, and Calm Mind sets are designed to beat it through Substitute, or paralysis spam, etcetera. Because of this, Blissey can usually do a lot of what Eternatus does, and even better, beating every Kyogre set in existence and providing Cleric support, Rocks support, twave support, etcetera. Now, Eternatus is useful for checking a lot of other mons by default, for example Ho-Oh or Marshadow. Eternatus can be a huge threat by just sitting there, and if you don’t have adequate countermeasures to that, it can literally just PP stall your shit out and win. People compare Eternatus to Arceus in the sense that both can blanket check a lot of mons, although I think that is a bit overplayed, especially in the current meta. Eternatus began to tech Air Balloon as a countermeasure against Poltergiest Marshadow (as well as against Webs and random ground moves), but Marshadow sets have adapted to this and the rise of Cosmic Power Etern by running Band sets featuring Spectral Thief that will straight up 2HKO Etern. Defensive Ho-Oh will usually run Thunder Wave in order to bait Etern, ane Band sets have no problem ramming through with Brave Bird or Earthquake. The rise of Special Defense Necrozma has been a big blow to Eternatus as well, as they will laugh off every Fire-move Etern can throw at them, making the LO set significantly worse. As a side note, Eternatus is strangely perhaps the most trappable mon in the tier, getting ganked by both Dugtrio and Heatran.

Now, I don’t want to give you too bad of an impression of Eternatus, as it is obviously a very, very good mon. A not-often-discussed aspect of Eternatus is that it promotes it’s own viability with Toxic Spikes. This move has been fairly rare to see nowadays, but that will only increase it’s viability in the future; a lot of teams that forgo a Poison-type simply lose hard to Toxic Spikes. Because of pressure, Etern can hard switch into Yveltal or Ho-Oh and stall out their Toxic Spikes without much trouble. There’s not too many true counterplay options against this besides running Etern yourself. Dual Defog and/or running a lot of Heavy-Duty Boots and a cleric are your best options there. I had to learn this the hard way in seasonals when Lauriane just sat there and set Toxic Spikes on my ass and I had no good counterplay to it. The Cosmic Power (aka Demon) set is also pretty good, and made a huge splash in UPL, being copied into a shitload of teams. It gained some nice popularity for being able to beat most CM Ogre sets as well as being a general bastard that can still solo games if its not dealt with quickly enough. It takes what I said above about Etern being able to just sit there to the next level - not only do you have reliable recovery, huge defenses, very high speed, immunity to Toxic, and Pressure, but now you also have a way to boost both of your defensive stats as well as your special attack. Unfortunately, the set did become a bit too popular and it got countered pretty hard by the up-and-coming meta trends like Twave or SD Nec, Spectral Thief Marshadow, and aberforth’s CM roar Kyogre, not to mention the classic stuff that made it’s life difficult like Trick Caly or Ferrothorn. I am expecting to see more and more of a return to Black Sludge (or Sitrus Berry, ig?) Etern as people realize that Air Balloon is not that useful. It really is a mon you can play around with a lot - Toxic Spikes and Dragon Tail on the same set, Draco Meteor to get more damage on Marshadow and break Kyogre substitutes, Sludge Bomb on defensive sets to to hit Fairy-types and get good STAB while still spreading status, etc etc. Physically Defensive sets are underrated and check all Marshadow, CB Ho-Oh, and Urshifu very well. Power Herb Meteor Beam sets can still work decently well on HO teams as I believe they’re still have enough special attack to deal with Nec. Hell, I’ve even forgone Meteor Beam on CP sets and instead used Metronome + Flamethrower as a way to lure Ferro and fish for burns without losing the ability to increase your special attack.

A+

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I am known for saying to a huge amount of teams “Don 6-0s” ever since DLC2 came out, but it was true back then and it remains true today. I have no idea why people at all think Zygarde acts as a Groudon check - just look at this calc:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 204 HP / 248+ Def Zygarde: 394-464 (96.5 - 113.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
So yes, your Etern/Nec/Yve/Zyg/Ferro team does in fact lose to Groudon. Double Dance Don doesn't even need Life Orb, it can do the same thing with Lum Berry. Foul Play Yveltal does help, but it is not adequate counterplay in the slightest, as Don can simply Edge on the switch or Rock Polish up, and now Calyrex just wins (this lead to the proliferation of Groudon/Calyrex teams that I invented in Most Wanted). Nowadays, Bulk Up sets are often designed to beat Zygarde as well, and they naturally murk Foul Play sets. Roar, Dragon Tail, Substitute, or Rest are all viable options to fuck over Zygarde pretty easily. This is why I love running mons such as Buzzwole, Tangrowth, or Lunala. I know a lot of people are already thinking “but Manaphy those first two lose to Fire moves!!!111!!”, which is true (well you can easily run Occa Berry Tang anyway), but the thing is that, with Zacian being banned, Tangrowth has taken a big hit in usage. Groudon began running Fire moves once CB Zacian became the main metagame threat as Tang was the best mon to deal with it. Nowadays, the simple fact of the matter is that Groudons are going to be running Double Dance or Bulk Up sets much more designed to beat Zygarde than those other mons. There are ebbs and flows to meta trends, of course, but at the end of the day, Zygarde will always be used much, much more than Tang or Buzz will be, making them fairly reliable checks to Don in practice (especially with Foul Play Yve), IMO.
Anyway, yeah, Don is really damn good because against most teams they will simply have nothing to beat it, and you can always tech Don to beat whatever you want it to. Don does this while checking Zekrom and being a great switch-in to Necrozma-DM, especially the twave rocks set. This means it provides good defensive utility while being able to find easy chances to set-up against the vast majority of teams. Defensive Don is only okay in my opinion; it’s good in the fact that it can set-up rocks quite easily and keep them up well since nothing but Giratina can defog on it, but the lack of reliable recovery is a seriously huge drawback to it. Regular SD/Bulk Up Groudon has enough variety to it already, and the sweeping ability is usually just too damn good to pass up imo. Stuff like Thunder Wave, Rocks, Roar, Dragon Tail, Rest, Toxic, Heat Crash (please stop using Overheat it’s strictly worse than Heat Crash), as well as the good ol fashioned Double Dance sets will all do very well for you.

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Kyogre is pretty simple but really damn good. I like the Choice Specs set the best - it’s perhaps one of the best breakers in the tier, and at same time, it’s one of the easiest to use. All you need is some really minor damage on Eternatus to one shot it on the switch with a Specs Blizzard; even if Eternatus lives, it’s still a very advantageous situation for you, as Etern will either switch out very weakened or risk dying to another Blizzard. People gotta remember that Ferrothorn does not make an adequate Specs Kyogre check at all. This is why those LO Etern/Ferro teams that took some popularity in the early DLC2 meta were and had always been trash. Specs Kyogre is always a great pick against any player that doesn’t use enough Blissey (or god forbid, Gastrodon).

CM sets are pretty interesting. They can do some goddamn work, especially if you last mon Kyogre. They do pretty well at taking advantage of Etern with Roar, Substitute, or Thunder Wave. However, I would never really rely on CM Kyogre to be the teams main sweeper - the set is simply too defensive and there’s really not much you can do with them against Blissey or Ferrothorn. Defensively, Kyogre doesn’t offer a toooon but it’s nice as a Necrozma-DM switch-in (it’s not immune to Twave but rest sets don’t really mind too much) and the defense investment make it fairly decent against Zyg or Don or Ho-Oh, and of course its huge Special Defense makes it a decent emergency Caly option. Kyogre can have some trouble getting taken advantage of by Zekrom, Ferro, Dialga, and Blissey.

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Zekrom is really damn good. It has everything it needs in 3 moves, so both the 4th moveslot and the item you choose is extremely flexible. Draco Meteor makes Zekrom able to dent Groudon and Tangrowth on the switch. Lum Berry or Fling sets can power through Lunala, Substitute can beat certain Ferrothorn sets, while Leftovers makes Zekrom able to repeatedly switch-in and pressure the opponent. My favorite option is Roost - it gives Zekrom reliable recovery even if it gets Knocked Offed, meaning Necrozma really cannot do anything on the switch-in. It also allows you to run an item like Haban Berry, which can ease set-up and give you a great backup check against other Zekrom. Substitute is another potential option, but I find it not as useful as it used to be, since most Ferrothorn will run Iron Defense nowadays. Outside of resist berries, Zekrom provides some nice defensive utility against offensive NDM sets, and it’s able to repeatedly switch into any CM Kyogre set lacking Ice Beam, which is quite nice. It generally has decent defense and not too may weaknesses, so Zekrom can be clutch against random things like Marshadow as well. Oh yeah, it gets a Specs set too....

A:

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Marshadow is really damn good in the current meta. I think Band has become the latest trend, and it's pretty good - it makes Spectral Thief gain the power that Poltergiest always had but without any of the drawbacks (and all of the weird properties of Spectral Thief are nice too!). I like to run Marshadow on teams where I'm not running Caly-S, because Shadow Sneak gives Marshadow utility to the team for revenge killing, and it forms a great partner with U-Turn Yveltal in order to secure your team against Subseed Caly-S. Band Spectral/CC/Ice Punch/Sneak hits nearly everything in the meta that you could possibly want to hit. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Life Orb because you can pull what I did to TonyFlyon :-]. Spell Tag is cool, but you miss out on the 2HKO on Etern than you get with Band, which is pretty annoying. Poltergiest is one of those moves that ebbs and flows in usage with metagame trends, I'd expect it to make a bit of a comeback when people stop putting Balloons on mons. But yeah, having a breaker and a revenge killer in one slot is pretty nice, even if Marshadow itself has pretty much 0 defensive utility. This mon is damn hard to check nowadays - the standouts in my head are Xerneas, Phys Def Eternatus, Tangrowth to a certain extent, and of course, Buzzwole who gigawalls this thing...... it's hard to consider Zyg a huge check to it now with all the Ice Punch and Spectral Thief being used nowadays. FF2 has tried a lot of shit with Subtitute and whatnot but idk it just seems unoptimal most of the time.... but maybe he's secretly a genius?

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I think Zygarde is pretty overrated for a bunch of reasons. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still pretty good, but it gets way too overhyped. There’s two reasons for this 1.) It haxes people which innately pisses people off and it makes it look stronger and 2.) people think it’s defensive utility is better than it actually is. It’s supposed to check Groudon and Marshadow, but it does a very shoddy job for both. Groudon can literally just one shot after a SD which means you really can’t even count Zyg as a don check much at all, while many Marshadow are running Ice Punch now just to shmack Zyg on the switch-in. I made a post awhile back on the VR thread comparing Groudon to Zyg and I think my post has proven more true over time as people have realized Don can do many of the things Zyg can do but better. For one, it actually checks Zekrom since it lacks the Dragon-typing, and its offense is simply way better allowing Don to pressure teams much more effectively. Zyg, rather, has to rely on status or favorable MU such as with it’s Demon set or Dragon Tail sets. Now, of course Zyg has some advantages, namely it’s ability giving it a lot of nice bulk and free HP after transforming. It’s one of the mons that make a really great switch-in to NDM. Glare is able to paralyze even Ground-types which is really useful. By extension of people not prepping for Don, a lot of players do not prep for Zygarde as well (at least not enough), which Zygarde benefits from, although it’s also important to note that Zygarde has more checks to it than Don does (the big one being Xerneas, of which the Defensive set has been becoming more common). Zygarde also benefits from many players who ignore putting a cleric on their team (which, imo, is a massive factor for balance teams which I almost always try to have). Otherwise, a lot of the time Zyg can feel like deadweight besides hopefully getting a paralysis or two.

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OK, I'm known for having a Blissey fetish, but you'd be a fool to think that Blissey isn't damn good in this meta rn. For one, Blissey is by far the best check to Kyogre in the tier; Ogre literally has 0 options outside of a full HP specs spout 2HKO with rocks up, a very rare situation. Blissey makes a nice secondary switch-in to Calyrex, forcing it to guess between Psyshock and Astral Barrage. Blissey has the best utility options in the tier - Aromatherapy is a huge one as clerics are both extremely valuable and rare in the current meta. Blissey gets a bad rap for being passive, but I think this is a greatly overstated issue. Thunder Wave and Stealth Rock give Blissey great team support that also means mons on the opposing team can't just switch in for free on it. Teleport can be used to give massive momentum and get in mons that are difficult to come in otherwise. Healing Wish can even be used to bring back a sweeper and it gives Blissey (or Chansey) a role on certain Offensive or HO teams. Right now, I'm a big fan of Twave + Rocks Blissey, because it can free up your NDM or Groudon to run whatever offensive moveset that you want without any problems. As a general special sponge, Blissey is nice for those random special sweepers than can do work against other types of teams, such as Meteor Beam Etern, Dialga, Landorus, Palkia, and of course Caly-S and Kyogre. People think I'm kidding about Blissey / Chansey HO, but I literally won a UPL game with it and it's a totally legit HO playstyle that doesn't autolose vs. Scarf Caly-S. Trust bro, trust! But yeah, if you don't have enough Blissey in your team history, people will absolutely cteam you with some status spam or Specs Kyogre and you will want to cry.

A-:

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Ho-ohs in an awkward place in the meta rn- with Zacian banned, it has lost one of it’s main niches. It still has great defensive stats and Regenerator, but it doesn’t matter too much when most of the top sweepers and breakers can plow through you regardless. I think Ho-Oh’s best role currently is to combine it’s previous defensive utility with it’s offensive capabilities. You are not forced to run 204 Def or 52 Sdef anymore, so this is free Attack investment. Ho-Oh is pretty nice for Defogging on Necrozma-DM, and it doesn’t too too mind paralysis. Ho-Oh can spread paralysis itself and it’s a great lure to paralyze Eternatus. Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are amazing STAB attacks and are pretty much all you need to start beating things down with this thing. Choice Banded sets are of course really strong, but they also require a team dedicated around it’s strengths. Meanwhile, Offensive Boots sets are also quite nice and you can fit them on more teams, even if they don’t break as well. Whirlwind can make Ho-Oh a decent way to force out Zygardes in a pinch, as well as checking Xerneas (although this niche is not nearly as important as before the Zacian ban). With Marshadow’s now usually running Ice Punch, Ho-Oh can make a pretty nice check to it provided you go with a lot of defense EVs (Banded hits still hit like a motherfucker). Overall, still a pretty solid mon, but I can’t justify ranking it higher after the Zacian ban.

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This mon is pretty damn passive. Still, it's actually really underrated currently. I remember reje once called this thing a "Get out of jail free" card and it sums this up pretty nicely. Lunala blanket checks so much nonsense in the meta, and it particularly hard walls pretty much all Groudon and Zygarde sets, even the lesser used options they have like Fire move Don. It will usually deal with Zekrom too, but Bolt Strike paras or Lum Berry/Fling can be annoying. The "get out of jail free" aspect is most apparent with Roar, as with Shadow Shield up you can phase basically everything in the game without a Ghost or Dark type attack. A lot of good players simply REFUSE to use this mon because they think it is passive but I think that's bad reasoning. For one, you can do some things with the sets to make it less passive - I like dropping the status move on occasion for something like Moongiest Beam. You only need 200 Speed or so to outspeed base 90s, so throwing those extra 52 or so EVs into Special Attack gives you something nice to smack switch-ins with (remember this thing has base 131 Special Attack). Ice Beam and Roar are all you truly need to beat Don, Zyg, and Zek, as even your uninvested Ice Beam will 2HKO these mons, so dropping the status seems totally reasonable to me. I've also run Thunder Wave in the past, as paralysis is a more generally useful status. Roar could be dropped if you already have a solid check to Zygarde on your team, so that's another potential slot to run something like Hex or even Teleport. Lunala also does not get enough credit for being able to (bar some specific coverage option just to screw over Lunala) beat some of the lesser used but still highly-annoying breakers in the tier, like Mewtwo, Landorus, or Rayquaza (all 3 very hard to switch into otherwise!). I think Lunala pairs well with Phys Def Etern as it's able to beat all the things that Lunala doesn't like, like CB Ho-Oh, Marsh, and Urshifu, and it of course goes well with any cleric. So yeah, I think this mon definitely needs to be used more; just pair it with some strong shit that will get you advantage when it's not on the field, or try to free up it's moveslots for less passive options by covering some of what Lunala would normally do with your other teammates.

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Hey, Ferrothorn is pretty good! However, it’s not an A rank mon. Ferrothorn is simply too hard to fit on teams, without making the critical mistake of losing to Specs Kyogre. IMO, the most elegant solution to this is to run Special Defense Eternatus with a physical Ferrothorn - I think most players imagine Ferrothorn as specially defensive, but seriously, physically defensive is quite nice. It stonewalls Zekrom with Iron Defense, and it can even give Zygarde and Groudon a run for their money, AND it's still useful against CM Ogre. Spikes and Leech Seed are, of course, absolutely broken moves, so nothing needs to be said there. I don't love Protect because losing Iron Defense means you lose to Sub Zekrom.

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The Geo set got nerfed HARD since SDef Necrozma is really difficult to get around. Instead, the most common set now has actually become the Defensive set. First off, if you use this set with anything other then Rest/Sleep Talk/Aromatherapy, you’re bad and should feel bad. Defensive Xern actually checks a lot of things pretty well, like Zygarde and Marshadow and even Zekrom to an extent. The Cleric support it provides is really useful and much needed in the meta, and pairing it with Sleep Talk gives you even more Aroma PP and a way to wake up early. The main flaw is that it’s PASSIVE AS SHIT. Seriously, there’s nothing stopping NDM coming in on this every single time. You really have to pair this with teammates that can get you a lot of advantage against NDM, like Groudon, Zekrom, or Zygarde. I don’t use defensive Xerneas too often as I find it difficult to have an adequate Don check while running it (Lunala + Xern would be passive city lmao), but I think the set is solid given the right team support. Clefable has come to the fray as a competitor, giving Stealth Rock support, Magic Guard, and better recovery, all of which are really nice. However, Clefable definitely lacks the raw BST of Xerneas which can come in clutch. Geo can still be run, IMO, if you pair it with teammates that can pressure NDM, like Caly-Ice.

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Yeah I'm unironically putting Buzzwole in A-... call me insane but the teambuilding magic that this thing can do is really next-level. It dumpsters all over Don and Zyg and Marsh and it can put in some work against Zekrom in a pinch. Nothing else in the tier covers all of those mons at the same time in one slot, and it just so happens that all of the things Buzz checks are the best sweepers and breakers in the tier that the Big 3 of Eternatus/Yveltal/NDM cannot cover by themselves. It's not passive as you can shmack things on the switch with Leech Life or Drain Punch or whatever. Hell, garay even used a Band Swole set and it actually did numbers because this thing has huge attack, and even Banded it can still check a lot of things! With Bulk Up, it can randomly sweep given in the endgame, given a paralyzed or KO'd Eternatus. Swole also makes a great Knock Off absorber which is awesome if you want to keep your item on Eternatus or something else. It's true that Swole can be Cteamed by specifically using something like Oblivion Wing Yveltal or Fire move Don, but I really considering these options to be MU-fishy as in the current meta Swole or Tang are not common enough to justify using such coverage otherwise. The reason Buzzwole got moved down in the latest VR is that the majority of the players on the council have not seen this thing used for months, and the reason for that was because Buzzwole got completely outclassed in the Zacian-Hero meta by Tangrowth, who could check similar mons to Buzzwole, but also be the best check to Zacian in the tier. Many on the VR didn't realize that Buzz just got massively buffed with the removal of Zacian, and it basically acts as a usually superior mon to Tangrowth now. I am very much expecting this to rise in the VR in the future as people realize this thing is insanely useful for teambuilding role compression. I honestly do think this should be A- or at the least B+, as Tangrowth was legimitely an A ranked mon in the Zacian-Hero meta, and I think Buzzwole serves similar roles now (of course without checking Zacian being a factor it is naturally lower-ranked).

B+

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This mon is pretty good I think! If it was a little bit faster it would be truly insane. Even with it's base 50 Speed, it has just enough to run some sets that can really screw over unprepared teams. The subseed set has been the most used recently, and it is really, really hard to deal with if your NDM is not EV'd to be faster than it. Some of the things you thing might check the Subseed set actually just straight-up get fucking GANKED. Seriously, after a Swords Dance, Glacial Lance straight up OHKOs Defensive Kyogre, even though it's resisted. The majority of the playerbase still does not EV their Necrozma sets to be faster than Caly-I, which is very good for it, and now the vast majority of NDM don't even run Defense which is another boon. On the other hand, NDM sets are now much more flexible to actually run the speed needed to beat Caly-I without practically losing too much for it (before they needed all the defense they could get for Zacian, now, running Speed just makes your chances of beating Geomancy Xerneas in the 1v1 a bit more sketchy). But I think Band should totally make a comeback; it looks DUMB strong in the current metagame. Physically Defensive NDM was the best check for it, but since they go for Special Defense now, Band can rip through much easier. I also like Band for the ability to run Aromatherapy and Trick on it, giving the set some great utility and team support options - Glacial Lance and High Horsepower are truly all the attacks you need to run on it. I have tried to make TR and Agility sets works, but they just seem a bit MU fishy - they do well against teams that lack Caly-S, but the ones that deal make those Caly-I sets really, really hard to use. Of course, Caly-I also has the problems everyone pointed out in the beginning, mainly its superbad typing and weakness to Stealth Rock. Despite that, it's breaking power is still good as shit because nothing in the tier really deals with physical Ice-type attacks adequately enough.

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A solid HO pick that has recently been appearing on some Balance teams. I think the Banded set is the most popular on balance; it's pretty hard to actually set-up with this thing as it's hard enough to get it in battle safely in the first place. So, you might as well just make reads and bash your head into things as soon as possible. I was impressed with Solo's recent game where he used Banded Extremespeed to clutch out a victory against HO; it's definitely nice as it gives Rayquaza some utility for the team that non-banded sets can't really match. I'd personally like to play around with this thing more.

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People who were complaining about Mewtwo supposedly becoming irrelevant with the release of Zacian and Caly-S were definitely in the wrong. Mewtwo is definitely one of the best breakers in the tier at the moment - Modest Ebelt Psystrike / Fire Blast / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam hits literally everything in the game. Nasty Plot could be used, but I personally don't love it because it's hard to set-up with it and you don't have to Speed to keep a sweep going when Caly-S and Marshadow are everywhere. I prefer just smacking things right away. The thing about Mewtwo is that you have to make the correct reads, which is honestly pretty difficult to do. I've started calling this "Palkia syndrome" in my head, because you have options to hit nearly everything in the tier, it's just actually doing it which is the difficult part. This is why I have something like Kyogre so high, as Specs Ogre is so strong and so braindead to play. Mewtwo itself offers nothing of defensive utility or revenge killing at all, and it's vulnerable to all the statuses and hazards, which hurts its viability. Still, I think it's pretty solid as it murks balance or stall when it comes in; for sure, it's a mon that best used with someone who is a good player and is confident in their meta knowledge.

Random mons I wanna talk about:

B:

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Ok but seriously this mon has some nice uses for compressing the Caly check role with the Ground check role. It doesn't really do all that much besides that but take your role compression where you can get it! A big flaw of this is that you miss out on the normal utility that Yveltal provides like U-Turn and especially Defog, meaning you kinda have to run this with like Ho-Oh or something else.

B-:

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Ok seriously, if FC beating Icemaster with this wasn't enough to convince you that Zama-C is viable, idk what will. Zama is pretty decent in the current meta; it doesn't, like, check anything in particular, which makes it hard to justify on the majority of teams, but it can just hard into Yveltal for days and smack whatever comes in fairly hard. It's fast, has a decent enough of a typing, and just good enough offense and dual STAB to make it work. Being able to hard switch into the most used mon in the meta is something you can't ignore. I would try to run it with Rest + Cleric so it doesn't get worn too badly over time.

B, maybe B-:

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This mon is probbabblllllyyyy ranked slightly higher than I think it should be atm. Kyogre + Dracovish is one of the most IGNORANT team types I've seen, you just go full retard and kill shit. Probably crazy good against stall. This comes at the cost of SPEED, and in combination with Ogre + vish not really checking too much by themselves, this leads these types of teams to typically have huge holes in their structures.

B-, maybe C+:

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I've recently taken a liking to Aerodactyl over Froslass for most of my HO teams. Aerodactyl just lets you avoid all of the bullshit against other leads, especially webs leads. Rock Tomb, Defog, Rocks, and Taunt does everything you need a HO lead to do. Froslass is still really solid as Spikes is just a better hazard than rocks are, but Aero is definitely the more consistent, albeit less rewarding, pick.

B:

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It hurt my head seeing this mon used so much in the Zacian meta. I really don't like Giratina-O that much because..... well, what does it do? As a Groudon check, it's not best, mainly because IT HAS NO RECOVERY! Seriously, what is to stop Don from edging you on the switch every single time? God forbid they have Dragon Tail or a status move. I think recovery moves and leftovers are a underappreciated part of many of the top mons like NDM or Zekrom.... Still, okay, sure, Groudon doesn't have reliable recovery itself so maybe Gira is fine enough by itself. But uh... what does Gira-O do itself then? Just kinda hit stuff with okay damage with Poltergiest and Draco Meteor? Burn things, I guess? Gira-O just seems very meh, maybe it's a mon I have use more myself before I judge it too harshly. The priority is definitely nice in a Caly-S meta. I just find that usually having a more reliable check that also deals with other mons like Zyg are more useful in general.

B:

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I think I underrated this at first, and it's gotten a good deal better now with all the Necrozma-DM's going special defense. This bitch has no defensive utility but who needs it when you return to monke on their ass. Seriously, physical Ice-type attacks are so good in this meta. It's cool that it can sweep as a scarfer as well, since it can at least revenge kill things while also being a breaker. Maybe its even B+ tier??

C+:

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???:

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Someone told me about Celebi and after thinking about it, I'm pretty sure it would have some legit usage in this meta. For one, you wall the Ground-types pretty hard which is really nice. You also get a cleric which is hard to find in this tier. Perish Song is a fun option to force out CP Etern or Cm Ogre, too; or, you could just run U-Turn for momentum. Celebi doesn't check Zekrom or Marshadow in this slot which is one of its main drawbacks, but I feel like it could totally be used viably, probably somewhere in the C tier.

ok thats all im gonna post this took 5 days to write i swear girls like me h-hahaha........

 

[Eledyr]

I've been discussing recently with Indercover about the infamous Red Doggo (which I've done the analysis though). Where to start...
Despite having similar stats to Zacian, it's hard to justify Zamazenta in a team over another band user; if you want to punch holes, FODASE, Calyrex-I or even Darmanitan-G makes a better job. Fighting-type is definitely not spammable as Fairy-type was for Zacian, which also result in a necessity to make the best decision in your moves or being completely useless. It doesn't have any utility moves outside of Howl, which means he doesn't have any way to break its checks except by having the right move and click it at the good timing. And even by clicking the right move, because it lacks so much power, it can't OHKO its opponent (actually Adamant Banded Close Combat has only 64.8% to 2HKO Defensive NDM, and this is the best damage you can do to it), which means that your opponent still get time to come back in the game with a recovery move (Rest for Zygarde-C, Morning Sun for NDM, Regenerator+Recover for Ho-Oh, you get it). Failing at its only job, and as a result of which, I'm convinced that Zamazenta should be dropped to Unranked, for the sake of the VR.

 

[Fusion Flare]

I've been discussing recently with Indercover about the infamous Red Doggo (which I've done the analysis though). Where to start...
Despite having similar stats to Zacian, it's hard to justify Zamazenta in a team over another band user; if you want to punch holes, FODASE, Calyrex-I or even Darmanitan-G makes a better job. Fighting-type is definitely not spammable as Fairy-type was for Zacian, which also result in a necessity to make the best decision in your moves or being completely useless. It doesn't have any utility moves outside of Howl, which means he doesn't have any way to break its checks except by having the right move and click it at the good timing. And even by clicking the right move, because it lacks so much power, it can't OHKO its opponent (actually Adamant Banded Close Combat has only 64.8% to 2HKO Defensive NDM, and this is the best damage you can do to it), which means that your opponent still get time to come back in the game with a recovery move (Rest for Zygarde-C, Morning Sun for NDM, Regenerator+Recover for Ho-Oh, you get it). Failing at its only job, and as a result of which, I'm convinced that Zamazenta should be dropped to Unranked, for the sake of the VR.

just for context, fodase is a nickname that most of the ubers community for dracovish.

 

[aurora]

I've been discussing recently with Indercover about the infamous Red Doggo (which I've done the analysis though). Where to start...
Despite having similar stats to Zacian, it's hard to justify Zamazenta in a team over another band user; if you want to punch holes, FODASE, Calyrex-I or even Darmanitan makes a better job. Fighting-type is definitely not spammable as Fairy-type was for Zacian, which also result in a necessity to make the best decision in your moves or being completely useless. It doesn't have any utility moves outside of Howl, which means he doesn't have any way to break its checks except by having the right move and click it at the good timing. And even by clicking the right move, because it lacks so much power, it can't OHKO its opponent (actually Adamant Banded Close Combat has only 64.8% to 2HKO Defensive NDM, and this is the best damage you can do to it), which means that their opponent still get time to come back in the game with a recovery move (Rest for Zygarde-C, Morning Sun for NDM, Regenerator+Recover for Ho-Oh, you get it). Failing at its only job, and as a result of which, I'm convinced that Zamazenta should be dropped to Unranked, for the sake of the VR.

Ubers doesn't unrank Pokemon that are Ubers by tiering but have no serious use in the metagame. You could unrank a non-Ubers Pokemon that for whatever reason has lost its niche in the metagame, but not something like Zamazenta. D rank is already as close to unranking as you can get for a Pokemon like Zamazenta that is stuck in Ubers but isn't worth using. Ubers Viability Rankings have followed this rule for generations; otherwise, Pokemon like Arceus-Bug would have long since been unranked... or not ranked ever... in the BW2 / ORAS / USUM Ubers VRs.

 

[Exiline]

to A-

The floating tiger is amazing right now, not only it is an amazing role compressing mon (SR + Groudon/Zekrom check) which is very welcomed in a metagame with so many different threats, it also can pressure balance a lot even while not even having any (or not much at least) attack investment with its EdgeQuake coverage which is amazing in this meta, standard set is EdgeQuakeSRToxic but you can also use uturn over toxic if you wanna get that momentum.
It also frees a moveslot on NDM since you'll already have SR on landorus.
A SD set could also very well work since there isn't much that likes to switch on big boy Lando.

I would also like and raises since they're currently ranked pretty low despite getting a relatively high usage rate in UPL with lot of successes.

 

[corvere]

to A-, maybe A

dada is really, really good. being able to check zekrom, non heat crash groudon, some ndm, calyrex-s, zygod, kyogre, and defensive eternatus in one slot is a blessing for role compression and team support- both phys def and spd def bring key resistances to the table. it also can potentially act as a wincon thanks to bulk up and jungle healing.
your yveltal is free to run more offensive sets which is big, same thing with other calyrex-s checks like hooh.

 

[Fusion Flare]

while people celebrate the revival of pokemon such as zamazenta-c and solgaleo, i'd like to take this moment to send some pokemon down to fill up the space. yknow, room for two more.
C- to D

hello yes, i'd like to know exactly who has actually used this EVER over eternatus. the only time where I ever saw this mon was when TonyFlygon used it and it still accomplished jackshit in that game. in a TonyFlygon game of all the fuckin things to be featured on and still doing fuckall. eternatus is faster, AND can actually use its typing for defensive uses thanks to monstrous bulk. hell, the ENTIRETY of its stats are better than naganadel's, even the special attack stat that naganadel can boost with Nasty Plot and-hm? what's that? Eternatus can run a LO set that immediately dishes out damage without risking being nuked, while still retaining its decent defensive profile while being not nearly as vulnerable to priority as well on all of its sets? gee, is there any reason to use this thing? at all?

C- to D
yikes. talk about the downward spiral of the generation. i'll keep this short and sweet.
Boots Lunala. It pretty much does everything Lugia could ever do, and does it better. Groudon, NDM, Rayquaza, it does it all, and it makes Lugia look like a fool while doing it. It checks the ridiculously powerful Zekrom as well, of course, because why wouldn't it. It even has a better Multiscale, which can't be busted up by Teravolt or Sunsteel Strike.Overall, it may be lights out for our water guardian, so say your goodbyes!

 

[What am i doing]

I honestly think that Krookodile should be considered:

It's quite fast, faster than the usual leads at least, and gets Taunt, SR, and Knock Off. It makes it a great lead because it tends to stuff a lot of stuff:

Geomancy Xerneas lead? Taunt, Knock off
Slurpuff? Taunt
Literally anything slower than 311 speed trying to set up? Taunt

With Focus sash it can even deal with revenge killers!

I've got this set for it that's worked pretty well for me
Krookodile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Honestly, Naganadel might as well become unranked. It's probably the worst setup sweeper in Ubers as it can't take even two resisted hits. I don't even know how many mon it can revenge kill to even abuse beast boost, let alone get a chance to setup with Nasty Plot. Even comparing Eternatus to Naganadel is an insult to Eternatus tbh, Eternatus is so much better and versatile it's not even funny.

 

[Eledyr]

Honestly, Naganadel might as well become unranked. It's probably the worst setup sweeper in Ubers as it can't take even two resisted hits. I don't even know how many mon it can revenge kill to even abuse beast boost, let alone get a chance to setup with Nasty Plot. Even comparing Eternatus to Naganadel is an insult to Eternatus tbh, Eternatus is so much better and versatile it's not even funny.

Naganadel is like Zamazenta, it can't be unranked even if it's a very bad Pokémon because it is Ubers by tiering, unlike other like Zarude or Toxapex. See this post.

 

[Carl Murray]

I honestly think that Krookodile should be considered:

It's quite fast, faster than the usual leads at least, and gets Taunt, SR, and Knock Off. It makes it a great lead because it tends to stuff a lot of stuff:

Geomancy Xerneas lead? Taunt, Knock off
Slurpuff? Taunt
Literally anything slower than 311 speed trying to set up? Taunt

With Focus sash it can even deal with revenge killers!

I've got this set for it that's worked pretty well for me
Krookodile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt

While Krook can have a niche I don’t see it being better than Aerodactyl.

Slurpuff also beats it, if it Magic coat on taunt or if it uses Sticky Web on Earthquake, then it did nothing.

I personally would not rank it, but if people have good experience with it I think it would place somewhere in D

 

[Fusion Flare]

While Krook can have a niche I don’t see it being better than Aerodactyl.

Slurpuff also beats it, if it Magic coat on taunt or if it uses Sticky Web on Earthquake, then it did nothing.

I personally would not rank it, but if people have good experience with it I think it would place somewhere in D

i'm pretty sure D rank is for bad pokemon exclusively in that tier, aka the box legendaries, like Necrozma Dawn Wings.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Naganadel is like Zamazenta, it can't be unranked even if it's a very bad Pokémon because it is Ubers by tiering, unlike other like Zarude or Toxapex. See this post.

So D rank is practically same as unranked? ie Pokemon with no niche in Ubers?

 

[Eledyr]

So D rank is practically same as unranked? ie Pokemon with no niche in Ubers?

Yes, this is exactly how you could describe them!