Darmanitan [BW2 Revamp - Taken Over] [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

[Pocket]

Why is Tentacruel such a big deal for Sun teams that they must reduce the overall effectiveness of this set to deal with it? Venusaur can easily absorb Toxic Spikes, Xatu can bounce back TSpikes, Dugtrio / Gothitelle can trap and kill Tentacruel. Under the Sun, Darmanitan has no problem squishing Tentacruel with Flare Blitz.

Have you done calcs for SF + LO-boosted Fire Punch in the Sun? it WRECKS. Why NOT have an option to wall break without the nasty recoil associated with Flare Blitz?

Rock Slide is useful versus Gyarados / Dragonite / Salamence when you don't want to Flare Blitz spam unnecessarily.

 

[Gary]

I agree with you PK on the importance of Earthquake, but I do feel that Rock Slide comes in handy more often then Earthquake. I think the All-Out-Attacking set could easily get away with 3 slashes (Fire Punch / Rock Slide / Earthquake) because I feel all three are important moves that should depend on what exactly you need Darmanitan to handle. For now I'm putting Earthquake in the ACs, but if you guys think it'd be okay to slash all three of them then I will.

 

[Jukain]

diff

[Overview]

<p>Darmanitan just so happens to have the highest Attack stat of any Fire type in the game, making it a great choice for sun teams. Sheer Force is a useful ability on Darmanitan that works well in tangentdem with its main STAB move, Flare Blitz. Combined all that with Drought support,(RC) and Darmanitan can pretty much flat -out OHKO anything that takes neutral damage from Flare Blit, whilez(RC) and even OHKOing some that do resist it.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, rain fatally neuters Darmanitan's Fire-type STAB, as well asnd makinges Darmanitan more susceptible to Water-type attacks. Darmanitan's Stealth Rock weakness is quite an annoyance as well, chipping away 25% of its health each time it switches in. The combination of Flare Blitz recoil, Life Orb recoil, and possibly residual damage from Ssandstorm, Hhail, and Toxic wears down Darmanitan fast. One of its biggest downsidefaults is its poor bulk, which means that Darmanitan will cannot be able to switch into much and willhas to rely on free switches to get in safely. Regardless of thesome setbacks, Darmanitan is a tremendous force to be reckoned with in sun,(RC) and it is always something you have to watch for oin the tTeam pPreview.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Superpower / Rock Slide
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A Choice Scarf turns Darmanitan into a merciless revenge killer. SinceAs Darmanitan is cursed with somewhat of a below -average sSpeed tier for OU, a Choice Scarf quickly handles that problem by giving it an extraSpeed boost in spes much appreciated, and allowing Darmanitan to comfortably use an Adamant nature without having to worry about being out(remove space)sped by a larger portion of the meta(remove space)game. Flare Blitz is the obviousDarmanitan's main STAB that is, (AC) being used to pretty much nuke anything that decides to stay in on it. Flare Blitz hits extremely hard combined with the boosts from Sheer Force, STAB, and sun, OHKOing most of the unresistant tier. Fire Punch is a very important move on Darmanitan's Choice Scarfthis set, as it allows Darmanitan to use a reliablepowerful STAB Fire move without the recoil from Flare Blitz. Superpower is a really important weapon to ushave against Heatran and Tyranitar, whoich can comfortably wall this setDarmanitan, (AC) even in the sun. Rock Slide is an alternative that can be used to revenge killhit Salamence, Gyarados, and Dragonite hard outside of sun while providing all -around better coverage against Flying-types,; (semi) however, Superpower is generally superior in orduer to handlitting more its common countertargets. On a side note, Rock Slide should always be used over Superpower if you're using Dugtrio as a teammate, sinceas Dugtrio can deal with everything Superpower handles Dugtrio handles as well. Otherw. U-turn ise, use Superpower. U-Turn is ford to gaining momentum against Darmanitan's common roadblockswitch-ins, such as Politoed and Heatran. U-Tturn also works well with Dugtrio as a partner, asince Darmanitan can use U-Tturn off ofn Heatran and trap it withgo out to Dugtrio, (AC) which can trap it.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>An Adamant nature is highly recommended on this set because Darmanitan needs all the power it can get to compensate for its terrible defenses. Adamant is overall the best option unless your team is very weak to the aforementioned threats (Salamence, Haxorus, and Volcarona). Earthquake might seems like it would be useful on this set to hit Tentacruel and Fire types harder, but being locked into Earthquake can be risky.</p>

<p>Ninetailes is by far Darmanitan's most -valued partner, as itsun boosts Flare Blitz's ridiculous power to even higher levels, while also(RC) and weakenings Water-type moves. Other than Ninetailes, a Rapid Spinner is by far one of the mostr important teammates Scarfed Darmanitan can have. Starmie and Forretress can provide it with excellent spinningthis support.; (semi) Forretress can tank powerful physical attacks that physical threats such as Scarfed Terrakion or Salamence will often thr[all of this is downright untrue; Forretress isn't bulky at all. talk more about how it can set Darmanitanup hazards], while Starmie is a great revenge killer that can also tank Water-type attacks while dealing with a lot of Darmanitan's checks and counters, such as Latias and Keldeo. Dugtrio is an outstanding teammate because it can trap Heatran and Tyranitar, which can allows Darmanitan to run Rock Slide or Earthquake if it wants to, or to just trap anynstead of Superpower. [thing else that hinders Darmanitan from spamms last bit doesn't really say...anything Flare Blitz effectively.useful] Xatu is a decent alternative to a Rapid Spinners due to its ability, Magic Bounce, while also havingand its all -around good synergy with Drought teams in general.</p>

[SET]
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Fire Punch / Rock Slide
move 4: U-turn
item: Life Orb
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set defines power. Actually, it does not just define power, it created the word power itself. Some mayight say Victini is an all -around better physical sun abusttacker because of the insane power of V-Ccreate, combine and with its all around better bulk and sSpeed tier. This, (AC) however, is far from the truth. A Life Orb-boosted Flare Blitz honestly is not that far off in terms of apower from Victini's Choice Banded V-Ccreate from Victini, which says a lot. Flare Blitz is Sheer Force boosted, Life Orb boosted, STAB boosted, and often times sun -boosted. Nothing can tank ithis move easily. Even Impish[bad example; Hippowdon, with all that bulk, is actually OHKOed after Rocks 62.5% of the time! That is of course, if Darmanitan comes in on Hippowdon while the Sun is up. Still, is going to switch out on Ninetales. pick a different physical wall, such as Jellicent after Stealth Rock damage] Hippowdon can't counter this set, (AC) even in the Ssand, because it is still 2HKOed by Flare Blitz. SThe same goes withfor Gliscor, Rotom-W who resists the hit,, (AC) and Latios, who(AC) alsol of which resists the h Flare Blitz. Actually, hHere isare some calculations just tothat prove just how powerful this move is. F, factoring in Sa sun boost and, (AC) Stealth Rocks damage, (AC) and an Adamant nature:</p>

<ul class="damage_calculations">

<li>252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP/0 Def Latias: 86.26% - 101.65% (87.5% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>252 -1 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 252 HP/252 Def+ Landorus-T (+Def) : 77.23% - 91.1% (25% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP/0 Def Garchomp: 83.8% - 98.6% (37.5% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP/64 Def Tentacruel: 102.2% - 120.33% (Guaranteed OHKO)</li>
<li>252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP/224 Def Jellicent (+Def) : 65.59% - 77.23% (2 hits to KO)</li>

<p>Not even Ddefensive Jellicent orand Tentacruel, allboth of whoich are commonly used to wall Fire-types, can't properly switch into Darmanitan. If you wanted a Pokemon that can KO half the tier, you have found it! Choice Band secures the 2HKO on Maxphysically defensive Jellicent and Politoad,ed; (semi) however Life Orb is a much all around better choice, and, (AC) Darmanitan still has enough power alreadywith Life Orb. Superpower is probably one of the most important moves in the set because it wrecks both Tyranitar and Heatran. Although Tyranitar fails to survive thenever 2HKO from Flared Blitz when under the sun, if Sandstorm, so this is up Tyranitar, can actually avoid the 2HKO. Heatranimportant. [again, no one is immunegoing to Flare Blitz, so Superpower caleave Tyranitar in on Darmanitan in shut down Heatran properly.un. next sentence is useless fluff.] Similar to itson the Choice Scarf set, Fire Punch is a great move because it still packs a punch (no pun intended) without the negative side effects of Flare Blitz. It is best used late -game when Darmanitan is running low on health. Rock Slide can be useful for always nabbing the OHKO on Salamence and Tornadus in the Rrain,(RC) while also being an albeit more reliable move than Flare Blitz against Dragonite. U-Tturn is a great move to maintain momentum, ands although Flare Blitz can decimate most of what would be switching into it, U-Tturn is really helpful for obvious Politoaed switch-ins.</p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>There really is not too much to say about this set. It breaks walls, and then breaks more walls. Other then the fact that it possesses much more firepower, Darmanitan's move(remove space)set is quite similar to the one on its Choice Scarf set. An Adamant nature is stressed more on this set than on the Scarf set, because Darmanitan loses out on a lot of OHKOs if it chooses to run a Jolly nature. Still, a Jolly nature has it's merits, such as allowing Darmanitan to out speed everything up theo neutral base 100 mark ands. Darmanitan's below. His most commonly used teammates are quite similar to the ones for the Choice Scarfed set. Earthquake is useful for KOing Heatran and Tentacruel outside of sun, while also KOing Heatran without having to worry about the stat drops from Superpower. Starmie and Forretress are again stressed so Darmanitan does not have to worry about Stealth Rocks or Spikes. Ninetailes, however, is REALLY<em>really</em> important for this set, and should be considered a ss Darmanitaple on any OU team that wants to use LO Darmanitan to needs every last bits ofullest potentialwer. Not only does Drought boost Flare Blitz's power to absurd levels, but it also helps win the weather war against Politoaed, Abomasnow, orand Tyranitar. Politoaed is especially important to stop, since Ras rain really neutlowers the sheer power of Flare Blitz. Overall, this set requires a decent amount of support, but the payoff is huge. KOing more than half the tier is a feat of nature without the need of a boosting move is no joke.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Darmanitan actually possesses somewhat of a decent support move(remove space)pool, containing useful moves such as Toxic, Will-oO-Wisp, and Encore. PThe problem is, that Darmanitan is so paper frail that wasting a turn using one of these moves often leaves it wide openKOed. Taunt is a decent choice on the Life Orb set, howeverbut it requires some prediction, to use and also wastes a valuable move(remove space)slot that could have been used for extra coverage. A Bulk Up set sounds tempting, but even at +1 Darmanitan is still very frail. A Substitute + Salac Berry + Belly Drum set is somewhat of a gimmick, but if you manage to pull it off, (AC) pretty much nothing can stop Darmanitan from KOing everything in existence. Sleep Talk is actually not that bad of a move on hiDarmanitan's Choice sets to counter Breloom, ; (semi) Darmand it can generally has room to give up Fire Punch or U-Tturn respectively depending onfor its set. Honestly in OUthough, there really isn't that much Darmanitan can do in OU other then revenge kill and break walls.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Depending on whatThe set you're going up against depends ontermines how hard or easy it is to counter or check Darmanitan. SinceAs Darmanitan will primarily be only running either ths Choice Scarf orand Life Orb/Choice Band sets, it is quite easy to figure out what it is mostly likely to be running based on the tTeam pPreview or how often it has switched in. The Choice Scarf set is probably one of the hardest of the two to deal with all around, especially when it is used on a Ssun team. Not only is it fast, but it is also really powerful, so it is not easy to check or counter it. Your best bet at properly countering this thing,Darmanitan(RC) is with a bulky Water-type or Heatran. Defensive Jellicent is barely ever 3HKOed by Flare Blitz outside of sun, so if you get lucky, (AC) you can counter it and threaten it with Scald or stall it out with Recover. Heatran is by far the greatbest counter to the Choice Scarf set, but requires predictionit must be wary of Superpower. Tyranitar is another great counter because it takes away the extra sun boost upon entry,(RC) while comfortably walling Flare Blitz and threatening Darmanitan with pretty much anyits STAB moves. Checking Choice Scarfed Darmanitan isn't easy either, but commonfaster users of Choice Scarf, (AC) such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Salamence, and Latios, (AC) can all out(remove space)speed it and can threaten it in some way. The Life Orb set, (AC) on the other hand, is quite easy to check. Since most Life Orb setsDarmanitan sit at a below -average 289 speed stat, there are quite a few offensive threats that can out (remove)speed him. it&mdash;Starmie, Terrakion, Latios, Latias, Hydreigon, and Salamence, just to name a few. With that in mind, LO Darmanitan under the sun is pretty much impossible to counter. One of the few things that can survive a Flare Blitz twice and live to tell the tale,(RC) is Politoaed, asince it instantly summons Rrain upon entry. Even then, there's still a chance of ait being 2HKO. Still, Ddefensive Politoaed is probabgenerally the greatbest counter to anyll of Darmanitan's sets.</p>

c/p

[Overview]

<p>Darmanitan just so happens to have the highest Attack stat of any Fire type in the game, making it a great choice for sun teams. Sheer Force is a useful ability on Darmanitan that works well in tandem with its main STAB move, Flare Blitz. Combine all that with Drought support and Darmanitan can pretty much flat-out OHKO anything that takes neutral damage from Flare Blitz and even some that do resist it.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, rain neuters Darmanitan's Fire-type STAB and makes Darmanitan more susceptible to Water-type attacks. Darmanitan's Stealth Rock weakness is quite an annoyance as well, chipping away 25% of its health each time it switches in. The combination of Flare Blitz recoil, Life Orb recoil, and possibly residual damage from sandstorm, hail, and Toxic wears down Darmanitan fast. One of its biggest faults is its poor bulk, which means that Darmanitan cannot switch into much and has to rely on free switches to get in safely. Regardless of these setbacks, Darmanitan is a tremendous force to be reckoned with in sun and is always something you have to watch for in the Team Preview.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Superpower / Rock Slide
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A Choice Scarf turns Darmanitan into a merciless revenge killer. As Darmanitan is cursed with a below-average Speed tier, a Speed boost is much appreciated, allowing Darmanitan to comfortably use an Adamant nature without having to worry about being outsped by a larger portion of the metagame. Flare Blitz is Darmanitan's main STAB, being used to nuke anything that decides to stay in on it. Flare Blitz hits extremely hard with the boosts from Sheer Force, STAB, and sun, OHKOing most of the unresistant tier. Fire Punch is a very important move on this set, as it allows Darmanitan to use a powerful STAB without the recoil from Flare Blitz. Superpower is a really important weapon to have against Heatran and Tyranitar, which can comfortably wall this Darmanitan, even in the sun. Rock Slide is an alternative that can be used to hit Salamence, Gyarados, and Dragonite hard outside of sun while providing all-around better coverage against Flying-type; however, Superpower is generally superior due to hitting more common targets. On a side note, Rock Slide should always be used over Superpower if you're using Dugtrio as a teammate, as Dugtrio can deal with everything Superpower handles. U-turn is used to gain momentum against Darmanitan's common switch-ins, such as Politoed and Heatran. U-turn also works well with Dugtrio as a partner, as Darmanitan can use U-turn on Heatran and go out to Dugtrio, which can trap it.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>An Adamant nature is highly recommended on this set because Darmanitan needs all the power it can get to compensate for its terrible defenses. Adamant is overall the best option unless your team is very weak to Salamence, Haxorus, and Volcarona. Earthquake might seem like it would be useful on this set to hit Tentacruel and Fire types harder, but being locked into Earthquake can be risky.</p>

<p>Ninetales is by far Darmanitan's most-valued partner, as sun boosts Flare Blitz's ridiculous power to even higher levels and weakens Water-type moves. Other than Ninetales, a Rapid Spinner is another important teammate. Starmie and Forretress can provide this support; Forretress can [all of this is downright untrue; Forretress isn't bulky at all. talk more about how it can set up hazards], while Starmie is a great revenge killer that can tank Water-type attacks while dealing with a lot of Darmanitan's checks and counters, such as Latias and Keldeo. Dugtrio is an outstanding teammate because it can trap Heatran and Tyranitar, which allows Darmanitan to run Rock Slide or Earthquake instead of Superpower. [this last bit doesn't really say...anything useful] Xatu is a decent alternative to a Rapid Spinner due to its ability, Magic Bounce, and its all-around good synergy with Drought teams in general.</p>

[SET]
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Fire Punch / Rock Slide
move 4: U-turn
item: Life Orb
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set defines power. Actually, it does not just define power, it created the word power itself. Some might say Victini is an all-around better physical sun attacker because of the insane power of V-create and its better bulk and Speed tier. This, however, is far from the truth. A Life Orb-boosted Flare Blitz honestly is not that far off in terms of power from Victini's Choice Band V-create, which says a lot. Flare Blitz is Sheer Force, Life Orb, STAB, and oftentimes sun-boosted. Nothing can tank it easily. [bad example; Hippowdon is going to switch out on Ninetales. pick a different physical wall, such as Jellicent after Stealth Rock damage] Hippowdon can't counter this set, even in the sand, as it is 2HKOed by Flare Blitz. The same goes for Gliscor, Rotom-W, and Latios, all of which resist Flare Blitz. Here are some calculations that prove just how powerful this move is, factoring in a sun boost, Stealth Rock damage, and an Adamant nature:</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">

<li>Flare Blitz vs. 252/0 Latias: 86.26 - 101.65% (87.5% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>-1 Flare Blitz vs 252/252+ Landorus-T : 77.23 - 91.1% (25% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs. 4/0 Garchomp: 83.8 - 98.6% (37.5% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs. 252/64 Tentacruel: 102.2 - 120.33%</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs. 252/224 Jellicent : 65.59 - 77.23%</li>

<p>Not even defensive Jellicent and Tentacruel, both of which are commonly used to wall Fire-types, can switch into Darmanitan. If you want a Pokemon that can KO half the tier, you have found it! Choice Band secures the 2HKO on physically defensive Jellicent and Politoed; however, Darmanitan still has enough power with Life Orb. Superpower is one of the most important moves in the set because it wrecks both Tyranitar and Heatran. Tyranitar is never 2HKOed in sandstorm, so this is important. Similar to on the Choice Scarf set, Fire Punch is a great move because it packs a punch (no pun intended) without the negative side effects of Flare Blitz. It is best used late-game when Darmanitan is running low on health. Rock Slide can be useful for always nabbing the OHKO on Salamence and Tornadus in the rain while also being a more reliable move than Flare Blitz against Dragonite. U-turn is a great move to maintain momentum, as although Flare Blitz can decimate most of what would be switching into it, U-turn is really helpful for obvious Politoed switch-ins.</p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>There really is not too much to say about this set. It breaks walls and then breaks more walls. Other then the fact that it possesses much more firepower, Darmanitan's moveset is quite similar to the one on its Choice Scarf set. An Adamant nature is stressed more on this set than on the Scarf set, as Darmanitan loses out on a lot of OHKOs if it chooses to run a Jolly nature. Still, a Jolly nature has its merits, such as allowing Darmanitan to outspeed everything up to neutral base 100s. Darmanitan's best teammates are quite similar to the ones for the Choice Scarf set. Earthquake is useful for KOing Heatran and Tentacruel outside of sun. Starmie and Forretress are again stressed so Darmanitan does not have to worry about Stealth Rock or Spikes. Ninetales, however, is <em>really</em> important for this set, as Darmanitan needs every last bit of power. Not only does Drought boost Flare Blitz's power to absurd levels, but it also helps win the weather war against Politoed, Abomasnow, and Tyranitar. Politoed is especially important to stop, as rain lowers the power of Flare Blitz. Overall, this set requires a decent amount of support, but the payoff is huge. KOing more than half the tier without a boosting move is no joke.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Darmanitan actually possesses somewhat of a decent support movepool, containing useful moves such as Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, and Encore. The problem is that Darmanitan is so frail that wasting a turn using one of these moves often leaves it KOed. Taunt is a decent choice on the Life Orb set, but it requires some prediction to use and wastes a valuable moveslot that could have been used for extra coverage. A Bulk Up set sounds tempting, but even at +1 Darmanitan is still very frail. A Substitute + Salac Berry + Belly Drum set is somewhat of a gimmick, but if you manage to pull it off, pretty much nothing can stop Darmanitan from KOing everything in existence. Sleep Talk is actually not that bad of a move on Darmanitan's Choice sets to counter Breloom; Darmanitan generally has room to give up Fire Punch or U-turn for it. Honestly though, there really isn't that much Darmanitan can do in OU other then revenge kill and break walls.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>The set you're going up against determines how hard or easy it is to counter or check Darmanitan. As Darmanitan primarily runs Choice Scarf and Life Orb sets, it is quite easy to figure out what it is likely to be running based on the Team Preview or how often it has switched in. The Choice Scarf set is probably one of the hardest of the two to deal with, especially when it is used on a sun team. Not only is it fast, but it is also really powerful, so it is not easy to check or counter it. Your best bet at properly countering this Darmanitan is with a bulky Water-type or Heatran. Defensive Jellicent is barely ever 3HKOed by Flare Blitz outside of sun, so if you get lucky, you can counter it and threaten it with Scald or stall it out with Recover. Heatran is by far the best counter to the Choice Scarf set, but it must be wary of Superpower. Tyranitar is another great counter because it takes away sun upon entry while comfortably walling Flare Blitz and threatening Darmanitan with its STAB moves. Checking Choice Scarf Darmanitan isn't easy either, but faster users of Choice Scarf, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Salamence, and Latios, can all outspeed it and threaten it in some way. The Life Orb set, on the other hand, is quite easy to check. Since most Life Orb Darmanitan sit at a below-average 289 speed stat, there are quite a few offensive threats that can outspeed it&mdash;Starmie, Terrakion, Latios, Latias, Hydreigon, and Salamence, just to name a few. With that in mind, LO Darmanitan under the sun is pretty much impossible to counter. One of the few things that can survive a Flare Blitz twice and live to tell the tale is Politoed, as it instantly summons rain upon entry. Even then, there's still a chance of it being 2HKO. Still, defensive Politoed is generally the best counter to all of Darmanitan's sets.</p>

Your calc format was wrong and there were lots of mistakes. Overall, good job though.

 

[Gary]

Yeah sorry about that Jukain. I knew there were a lot of mistakes that probably needed to be fixed.

EDIT: Phew, fixed all that.

 

[alexwolf]

I am ok with all three moves getting slashed in the last slot of the LO attacker.

Also, Gary when i said this:

Rephrase this to ''Adamant is overall the best option unless your team is very weak to the aforementioned threats (Salamence, Haxorus, and Volcarona)''.

I put those three Pokemon in parenthesis so that you can understand which threats i was talking about, not for you to include the parenthesis in the analysis. To clear this confusion remove this sentence:

Adamant is overall the best option unless your team is very weak to the aforementioned threats (Salamence, Haxorus, and Volcarona).

and replace it with this one:

''A Jolly nature should only be used if your teams has troubles dealing with neutral-natured Salamence, Volcarona, and Haxorus, which allows Darmanitan to outspeed and OHKO all of them at +1.''

Finally replace the sentence where you talk about Earthquake with this one:

''Earthquake is useful to hit Tentacruel outside of sun harder than anything else, but otherwise offers nothing that the other moves don't.''

 

[Gary]

Thanks for clearing that up Alexwolf.

 

[PK Gaming]

Why is Tentacruel such a big deal for Sun teams that they must reduce the overall effectiveness of this set to deal with it? Venusaur can easily absorb Toxic Spikes, Xatu can bounce back TSpikes, Dugtrio / Gothitelle can trap and kill Tentacruel. Under the Sun, Darmanitan has no problem squishing Tentacruel with Flare Blitz.

Have you done calcs for SF + LO-boosted Fire Punch in the Sun? it WRECKS. Why NOT have an option to wall break without the nasty recoil associated with Flare Blitz?

Rock Slide is useful versus Gyarados / Dragonite / Salamence when you don't want to Flare Blitz spam unnecessarily.

You are making way too many assumptions here. Why are you assuming that Sun is always up? Why are you listing assumed teammates in an attempt to discredit Earthquake? Sun teams are fairly similar sure, but there's no guarantee that you'll be using said Pokemon, and there's no guarantee that you'll be safe against Tentacruel. What if the Pokemon you listed are dead? You're also assuming your opponent is an idiot, but there's always a chance you'll face a smart and experienced rain user, and breaking through rain teams that utilize Tentacruel properly is a daunting experience (especially in a tournament environment). What if Tentacruel is switched in after you've killed something? You'll be forced to switch out immediately, robbing you of HP / momentum.

I fail to see the need to use Fire Punch, other than "It saves HP!" Why does this matter? Darmanitan is a Pokemon that doesn't live long by design, and you might as well kill everything once its switched in, rather than selectively use Fire Punch. Fire Punch misses the OHKO/2HKO on nearly every relevant fire resist in the game. (Gyarados, Jellicent, Latias, Tentacruel). When we first QCed Darmanitan, it was common knowledge that the all-out attacker set would be using Flare Blitz only because Flare Blitz's obscene damage against Pokemon that resist it was important. It isn't a Pokemon that gets many chances to switch in (its pretty much restricted to Revenge kills) so you should make every shot count when its switched in.

TL;DR you can never justify using Fire Punch over Flare Blitz, especially in the sun.

I agree with you PK on the importance of Earthquake, but I do feel that Rock Slide comes in handy more often then Earthquake. I think the All-Out-Attacking set could easily get away with 3 slashes (Fire Punch / Rock Slide / Earthquake) because I feel all three are important moves that should depend on what exactly you need Darmanitan to handle. For now I'm putting Earthquake in the ACs, but if you guys think it'd be okay to slash all three of them then I will.

It comes down to targeting Gyarados and Dragonite VS targeting Tentacruel. I think that Rock Slide might indeed be a little a better in general, so I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Rock Slide / Earthquake move setup. Fire Punch shouldn't even warrant mentioning outside of AC though.

BTW, something I missed earlier.

Rock Slide can be useful for always nabbing the OHKO on Salamence and Tornadus in the rain while also being a more reliable than Flare Blitz move against Dragonite.

You should probably remove the Tornadus mention since nobody is stupid enough to switch Tornadus into Darmanitan (even if the rain is up) and Tornadus will OHKO you if you're matched up against each other. I would also remove the Salamence mention for similar reasons; it's just too risky to switch Salamence into Darmanitan, because it shouldn't take unnecessary damage if it wants to sweep and Salamence is a Pokemon that generally isn't seen on rain teams anyway.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

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[Overview]

<p>Darmanitan just so happens to have the highest Attack stat of any Fire-type in the game, making it a great choice for sun teams. Sheer Force is a useful ability on Darmanitan that works well in tandem with its main STAB move, Flare Blitz. Combine all that with Drought support, (AC) and Darmanitan can pretty much flat-out OHKO almost anything that takes neutral damage from Flare Blitz and even some that do resist it.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, rain neuters Darmanitan's Fire-type STAB and makes Darmanitan more susceptible to Water-type attacks. Darmanitan's Stealth Rock weakness is quite an annoyance as well, chipping away 25% of its health each time it switches in. The combination of Flare Blitz recoil, Life Orb recoil, and possibly residual damage from sandstorm, hail, and or Toxic wears down Darmanitan fast. One of its biggest faults is its poor bulk, which means that Darmanitan cannot switch into much and has to rely on free switches to get in safely. Regardless of these setbacks, Darmanitan is a tremendous force to be reckoned with in sun and is always something you have to watch for in the Team Preview.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Superpower / Rock Slide
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p><p>A Choice Scarf turns Darmanitan into a merciless revenge killer. As Darmanitan is cursed with a below-average Speed tier, a Speed boost is much appreciated, allowing Darmanitan to comfortably use an Adamant nature without having to worry about being out(remove space)sped by a larger portion of the metagame. Flare Blitz is Darmanitan's main STAB, being used to nuke anything that decides to stay in on it. Flare Blitz hits extremely hard with the boosts from Sheer Force, STAB, and sun, OHKOing most of the unresistant tier. Fire Punch is a very important move on this set, as it allows Darmanitan to use a powerful STAB without the recoil from Flare Blitz. Superpower is a really important weapon to have against Heatran and Tyranitar, which can comfortably wall Darmanitan, (AC) even in the sun. Rock Slide is an alternative that can be used to hit Salamence, Gyarados, and Dragonite hard outside of sun while providing all-around better coverage against Flying-types; however, Superpower is generally superior in due to hitting more common targets. On a side note, Rock Slide should always be used over Superpower if you're using Dugtrio as a teammate, as Dugtrio can deal with everything Superpower handles. U-turn is used to gain momentum against Darmanitan's common switch-ins, such as Politoed and Heatran. U-turn also works well with Dugtrio as a partner, as Darmanitan can use U-turn on Heatran and go out to Dugtrio, which can trap it.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>An Adamant nature is highly recommended on this set because Darmanitan needs all the power it can get to compensate for its terrible defenses. A Jolly nature should only be used if your teams has troubles dealing with neutral-natured Salamence, Volcarona, and Haxorus, which allows Darmanitan to outspeed and OHKO all of them at +1. Earthquake might seem like it would be useful on this set to hit Tentacruel and Fire-types harder, but being locked into Earthquake can be risky.</p>

<p>Ninetales is by far Darmanitan's most valued partner, as sun boosts Flare Blitz's ridiculous power to even higher levels, (RC) and weakens Water-type moves. Other than Ninetales, a Rapid Spinner is another important teammate. Starmie and Forretress can provide it with this support; Forretress can set up Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, while Starmie is a great revenge killer that can also tank Water-type attacks while dealing with a lot of Darmanitan's checks and counters, such as Latias and Keldeo. Dugtrio is an outstanding teammate because it can trap Heatran and Tyranitar, which allows Darmanitan to run Rock Slide or Earthquake instead of Superpower. Xatu is a decent alternative to a Rapid Spinner due to its ability, Magic Bounce, and its all-around good synergy with Drought teams in general.</p>

[SET]
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Fire Punch / Rock Slide / Earthquake
move 4: U-turn
item: Life Orb
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set defines power. Actually, it does not just define power, it created the word power itself. Some might say Victini is an all around better physical sun attacker because of the insane power of V-create and its all around better bulk and Speed tier. This, however, is far from the truth. A Life Orb-boosted Flare Blitz honestly is not that far off in terms of power from Victini's Choice Banded V-create, which says a lot. Flare Blitz is Sheer Force-, Life Orb-, STAB-, and often times sun-boosted; nothing can tank it easily. Even physically defensive Jellicent is 2HKOed in the sun after Stealth Rock! The same goes for Gliscor, Rotom-W , and Latios. Here are some calculations that prove just how powerful this move is, (comma) factoring in a sun boost, Stealth Rock damage, and an Adamant nature:</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">

<li>Flare Blitz vs. 252/0 Latias: 86.26 - 101.65% (87.5% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs 252/252+ Landorus-T: 77.23 - 91.1% (25% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs. 4/0 Garchomp: 83.8 - 98.6% (37.5% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs. 252/64 Tentacruel: 102.2 - 120.33%</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs. 252/224 Jellicent: 65.59 - 77.23%</li>

<p>Not even defensive Jellicent and Tentacruel, both of which are commonly used to wall Fire-types, can switch into Darmanitan. If you want a Pokemon that can KO half the tier, you have found it! Choice Band secures the 2HKO on physically defensive Jellicent and Politoad, though Darmanitan still has enough power with Life Orb. Superpower is one of the most important moves in the set because it wrecks both Tyranitar and Heatran. Similar the Choice Scarf set, Fire Punch is a great move because it packs a punch (no pun intended) without the negative side effects of Flare Blitz. It is best used late-game when Darmanitan is running low on health. Rock Slide can be useful for always nabbing the OHKO on Salamence and Tornadus in the rain while also being a more reliable than Flare Blitz move against Dragonite. Earthquake is useful to hit Tentacruel outside of sun harder than anything else, but otherwise offers nothing that the other moves don't. U-turn is a great move to maintain momentum, as although Flare Blitz can decimate most of what would be switching into it, U-Turn is really helpful for obvious Politoed switch-ins.</p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>There really is not too much to say about this set. It breaks walls and then breaks more walls. Other then the fact that it possesses much more firepower, Darmanitan's moveset is quite similar to the one on its Choice Scarf set. An Adamant nature is stressed more on this set than on the Scarf set, as Darmantan loses out on a lot of OHKOs if it chooses to run a Jolly nature. Still, a Jolly nature has its merits, such as allowing Darmanitan to outspeed everything up to the neutral-natured base 100s. Darmanitan's best teammates are quite similar to the ones for the Choice Scarf set. Starmie and Forretress are again stressed so Darmanitan does not have to worry about Stealth Rock or Spikes. Ninetales, however, is <em>really</em> important for this set, as Darmanitan needs every last bit of power. Not only does Drought boost Flare Blitz's power to absurd levels, but it also helps win the weather war against Politoed, Abomasnow, and Tyranitar. Politoed is especially important to stop, as rain lowers the power of Flare Blitz. Overall, this set requires a decent amount of support, but the payoff is huge. KOing more than half the tier without a boosting move is no joke.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Darmanitan actually possesses somewhat of a decent support moves pool, containing useful moves such as Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, and Encore. The problem is that Darmanitan is so frail that wasting a turn using one of these moves often leaves it KOed. Taunt is a decent choice on the Life Orb set, but it requires some prediction to use and wastes a valuable moveslot that could have been used for extra coverage. A Bulk Up set sounds tempting, but even at +1 Darmanitan is still very frail. A Substitute + Salac Berry + Belly Drum set is somewhat of a gimmick, but if you manage to pull it off, pretty much nothing can stop Darmanitan from KOing everything in existence. Sleep Talk is actually not that bad of a move on Darmanitan's Choice sets to counter Breloom; Darmanitan generally has room to give up Fire Punch or U-turn for it. Honestly though, there really isn't that much Darmantan can do other then revenge kill and break walls.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>The set you're going up against determines how hard or easy it is to counter or check Darmanitan. As Darmanitan primarily run Choice Scarf or Life Orb sets, it is quite easy to figure out what it is likely to be running based on the Team Preview or how often it has switched in. The Choice Scarf set is probably one of the hardest of the two to deal with, especially when it is used on a sun team. Not only is it fast, but it is also really powerful, so it is not easy to check or counter it. Your best bet at properly countering this Darmanitan is with a bulky Water-type or Heatran. Defensive Jellicent is barely ever 3HKOed by Flare Blitz outside of sun, so if you get lucky, you can counter it and threaten it with Scald or stall it out with Recover. Heatran is by far the best greatest counter to the Choice Scarf set, but it must be wary of Superpower. Tyranitar is another great counter because it takes away sun upon entry, (RC) while comfortably walling Flare Blitz and threatening it with its STAB moves. Checking Scarf Darmanitan isn't easy either, but faster users of Choice Scarf, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Salamence, and Latios, can all outspeed it and threaten it in some way.</p>

<p>The Life Orb set, on the other hand, is quite easy to check. Since Because most Life Orb Darmanitan sit at a below-average 289 speed stat, there are quite a few offensive threats that can outspeed it, including Starmie, Terrakion, Latios, Latias, Hydreigon, and Salamence, just to name a few. With that in mind, Life Orb Darmanitan under the sun is pretty much impossible to counter. One of the few things that can survive a Flare Blitz twice and live to tell the tale is Politoed, as it instantly summons rain upon entry. Even then, there's still a chance of it being 2HKOed. Still, defensive Politoed is generally the best counter to all of Darmanitan's sets.</p>

[gp]1/2[/gp]

 

[Gary]

Thanks Gato.

 

[Lavos]

i agree with pk gaming that fire punch sucks. honestly all the talk about it in this thread has just been theorymon, i guarantee if you actually go out there and use darm you'll realize fire punch sucks on it. yes, there are situations where it's useful, like when you can kill something without using flare blitz so then you don't take recoil, but by and large it's going to see zero use in your battles. essentially, darmanitan's job is to nuke stuff. fire punch isn't nuking stuff. recoil is irrelevant. if i cared about recoil, i'd use victini, but victini is for bitches, so i use darmanitan. problem solved

 

[Pocket]

PK Gaming, your argument can be used against you, too. You can't assume that Rain will always be up, you cant assume that the Sun team would NOT have anything that can deal with Tentacruel (srsly Tentacruel is the least of most Sun teams concern), and you also cant assume that the Darmanitan user is dumb.

Anyway, here are the list of O-2HKO calcs that Darmanitan achieves with Fire Punch. Minimal support of SR and Sun is assumed:

large list of casualties

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Fire Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Gyarados in sun: 42.6 - 50.43%
Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Dragonite in sun: 45.59 - 53.62%
-1 Fire Punch vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T in sun: 56.36 - 66.66%
Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor in sun: 66.1 - 78.24%
vs. 248 HP / 228+ Def Zapdos in sun: 77.8 - 91.64%
vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster in sun: 90.45 - 106.63%
vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr in sun: 91.3 - 107.72%
vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Infernape in sun: 91.46 - 107.84%
vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B in sun: 93.09 - 109.71%
vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Aerodactyl in sun: 95.34 - 111.96%
vs. 240 HP / 216+ Def Volcarona in sun: 94.87 - 112.39%
vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem in sun: 98.51 - 115.84%
vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr in sun: 98.69 - 116.44%
vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gliscor in sun: 102.4 - 120.96%
vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye in sun: 102.96 - 121.71%
vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Xatu in sun: 103 - 121.92%
vs. 192 HP / 64 Def Reuniclus in sun: 103.17 - 122%
vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mew in sun: 106.43 - 125.43%
vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey in sun: 109.96 - 129.44%
vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth in sun: 110.64 - 131.18%
vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem in sun: 112.78 - 132.99%
vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thick Fat Mamoswine in sun: 121.05 - 142.65%
vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T in sun: 121.71 - 143.11%
vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus in sun: 123.51 - 145.45%
vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in sun: 127.21 - 150.15%
vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stoutland in sun: 127.97 - 150.48%
vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo in sun: 129.89 - 153.02%
vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jirachi in sun: 131.93 - 156.43%
vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gothitelle in sun: 134.51 - 158.71%
vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azelf in sun: 136.72 - 160.73%
vs. 244 HP / 120 Def Dry Skin Toxicroak in sun: 147.28 - 173.91%
vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross in sun: 158.51 - 187.08%
vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T in sun: 161.87 - 190.3%
vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tornadus in sun: 161.87 - 190.3%
vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Espeon in sun: 163.47 - 192.51%
vs. 252 HP / 168 Def Bronzong in sun: 163.9 - 193.78%
vs. 192 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur in sun: 168.48 - 198.85%
vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Magnezone in sun: 172.96 - 204.06%
vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi in sun: 180.19 - 212.37%
vs. 236 HP / 252+ Def Breloom in sun: 188.43 - 222.5%
vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar in sun: 208.77 - 246.18%
vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Rotom-C in sun: 210.52 - 247.03%
vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Amoonguss in sun: 224.53 - 265.27%
vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress in sun: 235.02 - 277.68%
vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam in sun: 268.25 - 316.26%
vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn in sun: 276.13 - 327.84%
vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario in sun: 343.97 - 406.38%
vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Abomasnow in sun: 389.84 - 459.11%
vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor in sun: 423.25 - 498.83%

So you're saying that killing Tentacruel with EQ is better than all these mons that Darmanitan can kill with Fire Punch? You'd rather rack up major recoil damage trying to kill OTR Reuniclus, Tangrowth, Scizor, or Jirachi when you can simply use Fire Punch? You'd rather play a guessing game of whether to Superpower that Blissey or Flare Blitz the switch-in, when you can simply spam Fire Punch KO Blissey without a second thought?

If you haven't noticed, Fire Punch 2HKOs Gyarados and pivot Landorus-T even after Intimidate with SR support. Even the most defensive Dragonite goes down on the 2nd Fire Punch (assuming SR). Gliscor is also an easy 2HKO.

Moral of the story - 1) Fire Punch coming from Darmanitan kills stuff 2) Darmanitan does not need to end its rampage short by Flare Blitz recoil, when it can kill stuff with Fire Punch 3) Earthquake and Rock Slide are elective moves that certainly should not replace mandatory Fire Punch

Remove the slash of Rock Slide / EQ on Fire Punch and slash them alongside U-turn instead. Fire Punch is too good to pass up.

This aint theorymon - this is common sense.

 

[Gary]

I have used Darmanitan quite a bit Lavos, and I have to somewhat agree with you that Darmanitan is almost always spamming Flare Blitz or occasionally Rock Slide. I've only used Fire Punch against something that was at the cusp of fainting or against something frail like Breloom or x4 weak Ferrothorn. It's USEFUL, but I find myself primarily using Rock Slide or Earthquake instead. There has been a lot of argument about how useful it is on his All-Out-Attacking set especially, so I feel like slashing it after Rock Slide or putting it in the AC will just keep this analysis from getting uploaded sooner. It's definitely not a terrible move to have, but I feel like it all depends on someones preference. If you want Darmanitan to be useful outside of the sun, then Rock Slide or EQ are superior. If you're only using Darmanitan for sweeping, then Fire Punch is favorable. I personally feel like it should be slashed after Rock Slide, but I don't think its that big of a deal. It can still hit really hard under the sun, as Pocket just proved.

 

[Lavos]

you've done nothing to convince me that fire punch deserves a slot on darmanitan. all you're doing is telling me fire punch doesn't make you take recoil (which i already know) and listing off a whole bunch of largely irrelevant calcs to attempt to prove that fire punch is worth something. unfortunately almost all of those calcs will never come to fruition since the opponent won't be staying in to find out just how much fire punch actually does. your theorymon says fire punch darm is a good idea. my experience playing hundreds of games with and against darmanitan tells me that fire punch is underwhelming, largely useless, and at odds with darm's purpose on a sun team.

 

[PK Gaming]

Unnecessarily large and useless list of KOs aside, I took the liberty of asking players who've either used or faced Darmanitan at a high level of play.

McMeghan

PKGaming McMeghan
McMeghan hello PK
PKGaming Hey man
PKGaming you've used Darmanitan / seen Darmanitan used at high level play, right?
McMeghan BW OU?
PKGaming yup
McMeghan i didnt see much darma
McMeghan especially in BW 2
McMeghan i've used it tho
PKGaming ok
McMeghan with good and bad success
McMeghan so i'd say it's a good mon overall
PKGaming on darmanitan, would you say use fire punch is a good idea on the all out attacker set?
McMeghan LO one?
PKGaming yup
McMeghan (i think scarf is superior in OU tbh)
PKGaming i'm having this debate with Pocket
PKGaming and i want to clear it up pronto
McMeghan well
McMeghan flareblitz
McMeghan rock slide
McMeghan uturn
McMeghan fire punch is an option
McMeghan tbf, idk if uturn is really needed on All Out
PKGaming which I think is absurd
McMeghan fire punch is a good option but not mandatory imo
McMeghan darma will usually hit twice or thrice in a battle
McMeghan especially if you dont scarf it
McMeghan so you usually lose nothing by using flare blitz
McMeghan its quite slow in current meta and doesnt have enough time to care about recoil
McMeghan i'd still consider it over uturn
McMeghan most pkmn hit my uturn takes more/same by flare blitz
McMeghan and you can hide the LO with it
PKGaming ic
PKGaming would you mind if I posted this log in that thread?
McMeghan nah i'd not mind
PKGaming Thanks man

Ojama

PKGaming yo
Ojama HELLO PKGaming
PKGaming you've used Darmanitan / seen Darmanitan used at high level play, right?
PKGaming http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4660297#post4660297
PKGaming i want to clear something up with pocket
Ojama yup
PKGaming on darmanitan, would you say use fire punch is a good idea on the all out attacker set?
Ojama i dont think so tbh
Ojama flareblitz is just too good
Ojama superpower fblitz uturn and ?
Ojama cant remember the last slot
PKGaming rock slide for Gyarados and Dragonite
PKGaming sometimes Earthquake for Tentacruel
Ojama yah def
Ojama rock slide
Ojama don't think fpunch would even deserve a mention
Ojama flareblitz is what makes darma so good

lavos

you've done nothing to convince me that fire punch deserves a slot on darmanitan. all you're doing is telling me fire punch doesn't make you take recoil (which i already know) and listing off a whole bunch of largely irrelevant calcs to attempt to prove that fire punch is worth something. unfortunately almost all of those calcs will never come to fruition since the opponent won't be staying in to find out just how much fire punch actually does. your theorymon says fire punch darm is a good idea. my experience playing hundreds of games with and against darmanitan tells me that fire punch is underwhelming, largely useless, and at odds with darm's purpose on a sun team.

I have some more logs, but I didn't get permission to post it (yet) so i'll withhold them until I get the go ahead. As you can see, the general consensus was that LO Darmanitan was too slow in current meta to care about recoil. You're just hurting yourself when you don't use it, because LO Darmanitan is all about blowing things up with that absurdly powerful Flare Blitz, it's not trying to preserve itself. (since its not going to last long either way) Rock Slide should probably replace Fire Punch on the Choice Scarf set too.

 

[Pocket]

It's not theorymon, stop making false claims to prove your point (which they dont) - I've used Darmanitan under Sun extensively. My experience with using Darmanitan is U-turning out of disadvantageous scenarios (ie if the opponent still has Politoed in the wings), Superpower that Heatran / Tyranitar, and spam Fire-type moves in the Sun.

Hell Fire Punch from SCARF Darmanitan proved to be handy late-game when I didn't need the extra power of Flare Blitz but I do needed to preserve health to prevent being picked off by priority like Scizor's Bullet Punch or Lucario's ExtremeSpeed. A LO Fire Punch can even O-2HKO defensive behemoths through resists in the Sun (If not 2HKO, Fire Punch + Flare Blitz would). Never have I regretted having Fire Punch instead of Earthquake, whereas I can recount battles where relying solely on Flare Blitz as my spam move would have costed me games.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

The whole point of Darmanitan is that Flare Blitz kills most fire resists outright, a feat that Fire Punch struggles with. Darmanitan is designed to die, taking as much down with him. Considering my experiences, the input of high level players, and *multiple* QCers, here's how the sets are going to look.


[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Rock Slide
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET]
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Rock Slide
move 4: Earthquake / U-turn
item: Life Orb
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


Make the requested changes ASAP so we can get this analysis resolved.

(p.s.: this is not a request, and this is not up for debate)

 

[Gary]

Changed the sets Deadly, thank you. I went ahead and at least mentioned Fire Punch in the AC of the All-Out-Attacking set, since it is still a viable option.

 

[Lavos]

this is ready to go on-site, if someone from gp could give the final check that would be great

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Fire Punch in AC is fine. Thanks for making the changes, Gary.

 

[sirndpt]

Hide

[Overview]

<p>Darmanitan just so happens to have the highest Attack stat of any Fire-type in the game, making it a great choice for sun teams. Sheer Force is a useful ability on Darmanitan that works well in tandem with its main STAB move, Flare Blitz. Combine all that with Drought support, and Darmanitan can flat-out OHKO almost anything that takes neutral damage from Flare Blitz and even some that do resist it.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, rain neuters Darmanitan's Fire-type STAB and makes it more susceptible to Water-type attacks. Darmanitan's Stealth Rock weakness is quite an annoyance as well, chipping away 25% of its health each time it switches in. The combination of Flare Blitz recoil, Life Orb recoil, and possibly residual damage from sandstorm, hail, or Toxic wears down Darmanitan fast. One of its biggest faults is its poor bulk, which means that Darmanitan cannot switch into much and has to rely on free switches to get in safely. Regardless of these setbacks, Darmanitan is a tremendous force to be reckoned with in sun and is always something you have to watch for in Team Preview.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Superpower
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A Choice Scarf turns Darmanitan into a merciless revenge killer. As Darmanitan is cursed with a below-average Speed or 'a below-average Speed stat', a Speed boost is much appreciated, allowing Darmanitan to comfortably use an Adamant nature without having to worry about being outsped by a larger portion of the metagame. Flare Blitz is Darmanitan's main STAB, used to which nukes anything that decides to stay in on it. Flare Blitz hits extremely hard with the boosts from Sheer Force, STAB, and sun, OHKOing most of the unresistant tier kind of a weird phrase lol, 'most Pokemon that don't resist it' might be cliched but is still preferable imo - your choice. Superpower is a really important weapon to have against Heatran and Tyranitar, which can comfortably wall Darmanitan, even in the sun. Rock Slide is used to hit Salamence, Gyarados, and Dragonite hard outside of sun while providing all-around better coverage against Flying-types. U-turn is used to gain momentum against Darmanitan's common switch-ins, such as Politoed and Heatran. U-turn also works well with Dugtrio as a partner, as Darmanitan can use U-turn on Heatran and go out to Dugtrio, which can trap it.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>An Adamant nature is highly recommended on this set because Darmanitan needs all the power it can get. A Jolly nature should only be used if your team has trouble dealing with neutral-natured Salamence, Volcarona, and Haxorus, which as it allows Darmanitan to outspeed and OHKO all of them at +1. Earthquake might seem like it would be useful on this set to hit Tentacruel and Fire-types harder, but being locked into Earthquake can be risky.</p>

<p>Ninetales is by far Darmanitan's most valued partner, as sun boosts Flare Blitz's ridiculous power to even higher levels and weakens Water-type moves. Other than Ninetales, a Rapid Spinner is another important teammate. Starmie and Forretress can provide this support; Forretress can set up Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, while Starmie is a great revenge killer that can also tank Water-type attacks while dealing with a lot of Darmanitan's checks and counters, such as Latias and Keldeo. Dugtrio is an outstanding teammate because it can trap Heatran and Tyranitar, which allows Darmanitan to run Rock Slide or Earthquake instead of Superpower. Xatu is a decent alternative to a Rapid Spinner due to its ability, Magic Bounce, and its all-around good synergy with Drought teams in general.</p>

[SET]
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Rock Slide
move 4: Earthquake / U-turn
item: Life Orb
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set defines power. Actually, it does not just define power, it created the word power itself. Some might say Victini is an all around better physical sun attacker because of the insane power of V-create and its all-around better bulk and Speed tier. This, however, is far from the truth. A Life Orb-boosted Flare Blitz honestly is not that far off in terms of power from Victini's Choice Band V-create, which says a lot. Flare Blitz is Sheer Force-, Life Orb-, STAB-, and oftentimes sun-boosted i'm not too sure i got what you meant in this sentence, check just to be sure; nothing can tank it easily. Even physically defensive Jellicent is 2HKOed in the sun after Stealth Rock! The same goes for Gliscor, Rotom-W(remove space), and Latios. Here are some calculations that prove just how powerful this move is, factoring in a sun boost, Stealth Rock damage, and an Adamant nature:</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
remove paragraph space
<li>Flare Blitz vs. 252/0 Latias: 86.26 - 101.65% (87.5% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs 252/252+ Landorus-T: 77.23 - 91.1% (25% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs. 4/0 Garchomp: 83.8 - 98.6% (37.5% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs. 252/64 Tentacruel: 102.2 - 120.33%</li>
<li>Flare Blitz vs. 252/224 Jellicent: 65.59 - 77.23%</li>

<p>Not even defensive Jellicent and Tentacruel, both of which are commonly used to wall Fire-types, can switch into Darmanitan. If you want a Pokemon that can KO half the tier, you have found it! Choice Band secures the 2HKO on physically defensive Jellicent and Politoed, though Darmanitan still has enough power with Life Orb. Superpower is one of the most important moves in the set because it wrecks both Tyranitar and Heatran. Rock Slide is can be useful for Dragonite and Gyarados in the rain. Earthquake is to hit Tentacruel outside of sun harder than anything else. U-turn is a great move to maintain momentum, as although Flare Blitz can decimate most of what would be switching into it its switch-ins, U-turn is really helpful for obvious Politoed switch-ins.</p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>There really is not too much to say about this set. It breaks walls and then breaks more walls. Other than the fact that it possesses much more firepower, Darmanitan's moveset here is quite similar to the one on its Choice Scarf set its Choice Scarf one. An Adamant nature is stressed more on this set than on the Scarf set more important here, however, as Darmanitan loses out on a lot of OHKOs if it chooses to run a Jolly nature. Still, a Jolly nature has its merits, such as allowing Darmanitan to outspeed everything up to neutral-natured base 100s. Fire Punch is an option over Rock Slide if you want a more reliable move to spam late game when Darmanitan is lacking health.</p>

<p>Darmanitan's best teammates are quite similar to the ones for the Choice Scarf set. Starmie and Forretress are again stressed important so Darmanitan does not have to worry about Stealth Rock or Spikes. Ninetales, however, is <em>really</em> important for this set, as Darmanitan needs every last bit of power. Not only does Drought boost Flare Blitz's power to absurd levels, but it also helps win the weather war against Politoed, Abomasnow, and Tyranitar. Politoed is especially important to stop, as rain lowers the power of Flare Blitz. Overall, this set requires a decent amount of support, but the payoff is huge. KOing more than half the tier without a boosting move is no joke.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Darmanitan actually possesses somewhat decent support moves, such as Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, and Encore. The problem is that Darmanitan is so frail that wasting a turn using one of these moves often leaves it KOed. Taunt is a decent choice on the Life Orb set, but it requires some prediction to use and wastes a valuable moveslot that could have been used for extra coverage. A Bulk Up set sounds tempting, but even at +1 Darmanitan is still very frail. A Substitute + Salac Berry + Belly Drum set is somewhat of a gimmick, but if you manage to pull it off, pretty much nothing can stop Darmanitan from KOing everything in existence. Sleep Talk is actually not that bad of a move on Darmanitan's Choice sets to counter Breloom; Darmanitan generally has room to give up Fire Punch or U-turn for it.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>The set you're going up against determines how hard or easy it is to counter or check Darmanitan. As Darmanitan primarily run Choice Scarf or Life Orb sets, it is quite easy to figure out what it is likely to be running based on the Team Preview or how often it has switched in. The Choice Scarf set is probably one of the hardest harder of the two to deal with, especially when it is used on a sun team. Not only is it fast, but it is also really powerful It is not only fast, but also very powerful, so it is not easy to check or counter it. Your best bet at properly countering this Darmanitan is with a bulky Water-type or Heatran. Defensive Jellicent is barely ever 3HKOed by Flare Blitz outside of sun, so if you get lucky, you it requires a bit of luck but can counter it Darmanitan and threaten it with Scald or stall it out with Recover. Heatran is by far the best counter to the Choice Scarf set, but it must be wary of Superpower. Tyranitar is another great counter because it takes away sun upon entry,(remove comma) while comfortably walling Flare Blitz and threatening it with its STAB moves. Checking Choice Scarf Darmanitan isn't easy either, but faster users of Choice Scarf, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Salamence, and Latios, can all outspeed it and threaten it in some way.</p>

<p>The Life Orb set, on the other hand, is quite easy to check. Because most Life Orb Darmanitan sit at a below-average 289 Speed, there are quite a few offensive threats that can outspeed it, including Starmie, Terrakion, Latios, Latias, Hydreigon, and Salamence. With that in mind, Life Orb Darmanitan under the sun is pretty much impossible to counter. One of the few things that can survive a Flare Blitz twice and live to tell the tale is Politoed, as it instantly summons rain upon entry. Even then, there's still a chance of it being 2HKOed. Still, defensive Politoed is generally the best counter to all of Darmanitan's sets.</p>

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