Nah, most Fire-types don't do too well in doubles/triples, since there are way too many attacks that can hammer them for SE damage, and since Surf and EQ hit every Pokemon except the user on the field.
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Darmanitan
- Thread starter Not Scicky
- Start date
While I don't know too much about the VGC metagame, I have to disagree with you. While it's true that a weakness to common multi-hit moves is takes away some of its value, Fire-types can still be used effictively. For example, Chandelure. Even with Rock Slide/EQ/Surf weaknesses it's ability to OHKO the genies+Amoongus make it a pretty solid choice for a team slot. It was used in the Smogon VGC final. Darmanitan's main problem is how fast it dies with Flare Blitz recoil and getting attacked by two other pokes. Otherwise, it hits like a truck and could be used well with proper team support IMO.
Well, Chandy is a hard hitter, as is Darmanitan, although the weakness to Surf, EQ, and Rock Slide don't help the two Fire-types none. And I'm not really that into doubles/triples, although I've watched some, and I usually never see a Fire-type in there, save Chandy and Darmanitan. But getting hit by two or three opponents in one turn doesn't sound too appetizing for too many Pokemon.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
How the hell did something with base 140 attack and base 95 speed end up in UU?? It seems like pretty much every new fire type (except reshiram) this generation has ended up in UU or worse.
Stealth Rock and Rain are the biggest reasons, with SR always being the bane of Fire Types and Rain becoming so prevalent this generation. And you forgot about Volcarona, who is OU.
The biggest problems Darmanitan faces this generation are survivability due to being entry hazard weak and the massive recoil off Flare Blitz, and the frequency of rain, which totally nerfs the primary reason to use it. Basically, it requires a lot of team support, and even with all the support in the world its only going to be sticking around for a few turns thanks to Flare Blitz and its less than ideal defenses. Finally, while it does have good speed it just isn't enough when there are so many key Pokemon that are able to outspeed it that can threaten it.
The bottom line is that Darmanitan just can't stick around long enough, and can't get its job done reliably enough to be consistantly OU. Add the fact that there are more versatile Fire Types available like Infernape and Heatran, and it's just not the first choice for most teams.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Yeah, I forgot about volcarona xD. As far as the recoil is concerned, what if you just use fire punch instead of flare blitz?? It would keep him alive a little longer.
I'd have to agree. Darmanitan's true niche is firing off what have been called "Nuclear Flare Blitzes" while in the Sun. Fire Punch simply cannot score the sheer amount of OHKOs that Flare Blitz scores, but might be useful as a more conservative option on a Choice set. To address lmitchell0012 on Darmanitan's fall, I'd say there are a few factors to it. Firstly, as Jimera0 said, it's weak to Stealth Rock, and which is not only detrimental to offensive Pokemon, but even more detrimental to ones that aren't Set-Up Sweepers and end up switching in and out during a game. One could also argue that Darmanitan faces quite a bit of competition with Choice Band Infernape. Unlike Darmanitan, Infernape doesn't need a Scarf to reach an optimal speed tier, so it's Band Set is less likely to be revenge killed [that and it has powerful priority]. Infernape also takes neutral damage from SR, allowing it to switch in much more often than Darmanitan, when Rocks are on the field. Infernape is surprisingly powerful as well and its Flare Blitz isn't that inferior to Darmanitan's. Darmanitan is a great Pokemon, don't get me wrong, but it's sheer inability to survive plagues it so much that players have begun to consider other options and it has slipped into the UU Tier.
Fire Punch honestly takes away most of Darmanitan's appeal, CS Adamant Darm's attack is lower than CB Jolly Victini, and factoring in Sheer Force, Fire Punch only reaches 97 BP, while Victini has a staggering 180 V-Create. Flare Blitz is the reason to use Darmanitan, if you look at the Darm analysis Fire Punch is slashed over Superpower and not Flare Blitz.
Well, I laddered to the top 10 once and the top 30 with two alts using a team that focused ENTIRELY on Darmanitan, so I can vouch for his legitimacy.
The key really is to indeed be conservative on when you use Flare Blitz. If you're wondering on whether you should use Fire Punch or not, the answer is simply yes. Do you want to take a ton of damage KOing that 90% Skarmory, or do you want to take no damage at all and use Sheer Force Fire Punch which negates Life Orb? Speaking of Life Orb, I honestly believe that Life Orb is the best set to use if you're trying to focus a team on Darma. Obviously on a Sun team or something you should probably use Scarf or Band but on my team Orb was the way to go and it worked marvelously.
The key really is to indeed be conservative on when you use Flare Blitz. If you're wondering on whether you should use Fire Punch or not, the answer is simply yes. Do you want to take a ton of damage KOing that 90% Skarmory, or do you want to take no damage at all and use Sheer Force Fire Punch which negates Life Orb? Speaking of Life Orb, I honestly believe that Life Orb is the best set to use if you're trying to focus a team on Darma. Obviously on a Sun team or something you should probably use Scarf or Band but on my team Orb was the way to go and it worked marvelously.