Darth Kermit - Toxicroak Discussion Thread

[Deep Thought]

Overview

Toxicroak is a Pokémon that I believe has untapped potential in the Uber metagame. The purpose of this thread is to create discussion about whether Toxicroak is a worthy consideration for an Uber team. Before I get into the sets that, in my opinion, have the most chance of succeeding in Ubers, here is some general data on the fighting frog.

Stats: 83 HP/106 Attack/65 Defense/86 Special Attack/65 Special Defense/85 Speed (490 BST)
Typing: Poison-Fighting
Abilities: Anticipation & Dry Skin

At first glance, none of Toxicroak's stats seem Uber-worthy. Its defenses are paper-thin compared to almost all other Pokémon used in Ubers, but with a little bit of investment, it can take hits decently enough to get by pretty well. For example, it can survive a Lustrous Orb Palkia's Spacial Rend and a Life Orb Mewtwo's Thunder, so it is harder to revenge-kill than you might think. Toxicroak's unique Poison-Fighting typing, along with its ability Dry Skin (Anticipation is competitively worthless), are very good in the Uber metagame, and here are three reasons why: (1) It is immune to Water attacks, so it can switch into most Kyogre without fear, AND it will heal 12.5% of its HP every turn in rain. (Fun fact: the only common way Kyogre can OHKO Toxicroak is a Choice Specs Thunder!) (2) Its resistances to both Dark and Fighting attacks make it a great Darkrai check (Using the EV spreads I have concocted, Darkrai's +2 Life Orb Dark Pulse does 88.47% maximum damage to NPCroak, while SubPunchCroak can set up a Substitute two-thirds of the time after switching in at full health as LODarkrai uses Nasty Plot!) (3) It absorbs Toxic Spikes and is immune to the Poison status, which are huge boons when facing Uber stall teams. In fact, Toxicroak can easily set up on and beat the deadly stalling combination of Blissey and Forretress! Other resistances of which the frog can boast are Bug, Grass, Rock, and Poison; meanwhile, it is weak to Flying, Ground, Psychic, and Fire (not technically a weakness, but because of Dry Skin it will essentially be taking 1.5x the normal damage from Fire-type attacks, so if you watch out for Earthquakes, Earth Powers, Air Slashes, and Brave Birds while keeping the weather nice and rainy, Toxicroak will have more than enough staying power to get the job done. And that job is, of course, sweeping! Base 86 Special Attack is quite mediocre, but add in Life Orb and Nasty Plot and this amphibian can dish out the hurt surprisingly well - plus it has the secondary option of running a SubPunch set that utilizes its nice movepool and decent 106 base Attack. Its 85 base speed is low for Ubers, but since there are a bunch of common base 90 Pokémon that do not usually run a ton of speed, you can stick with attack-boosting natures and even have some EVs left over for your defenses! At this point, you may still be pretty skeptical, so let me show you the sets that have got me excited about Toxicroak:

Set 1. Nasty Plot
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 180 Spe, 56 HP, 20 SpDef (maximum power, 251 Speed to outrun standard RPDon, 321 HP for maximum Dry Skin recovery, and the rest in Special Defense)
Moves:
1. Nasty Plot
2. Focus Blast
3. Sludge Bomb
4. Dark Pulse

This is as straightforward as it gets - find a chance to set up (SpecsOgre Water Spout , CBZor Pursuit, ScarfPalkia Surf, WishBliss, Forretress, etc.) and then just pick the move that does the most damage. Focus Blast is bread-and-butter STAB, OHKOing all but the most specially defensive Groudon at +2, OHKOing 4/0 Dialga even without a boost, OHKOing Blissey at +4, and so on. Sludge Bomb is for Pokémon like Ho-Oh (at +2, Sludge Bomb OHKOs offensive Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock, and even the bulky 248/72 variant is hit for 49.88% minimum damage) as well as for when you'll get the KO regardless and you don't want to rely on Focus Blast's iffy 70% accuracy (think Darkrai and pals). Dark Pulse rounds out your coverage, OHKOing the standard Lead Mew after Stealth Rock and a Nasty Plot as well as anything less bulky. If Calm Wobbuffet switches in as you Nasty Plot, it takes 71.08% - 83.93% from Dark Pulse, fainting after a little residual damage. In my opinion, this is Toxicroak's best niche in Ubers. IIRC I actually swept -Mind- with it once when we were testing teams against each other .

Set 2. SubPunch
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 120 HP, 76 Spe, 60 SpDef (maximum power, 225 Speed to outrun standard Ho-Oh, 337 HP for maximum Dry Skin/Leftovers recovery, and the rest in Special Defense)
Moves:
1. Substitute
2. Focus Punch
3. Sucker Punch
4. Ice Punch

Step 1. Use Substitute when possible (i.e. when you would be able to use Nasty Plot on the other set). Step 2. Use the appropriate attack to serve your opponent a helping or two of pain. Step 3. ??? Step 4. PROFIT. Yeah, it's that simple, and yet this set can catch many Pokémon off-guard that switch in smelling a KO on Croak. I'm talking about Rayquaza, Garchomp, Shaymin-S, Lati@s, Mewtwo, and all the other Ubers that might try to make some frog stew but instead find themselves falling to Croak's superior punching prowess. 342 Attack is below the usual standards for this metagame, but it allows Croak to KO all the stuff it's supposed to KO as well as some stuff you'd be surprised it can take down. Focus Punch does 49.63% minimum damage to Cro-Ogre, against which Croak can set up as many Substitutes as it wants without ever being harmed. It also has a (very small) chance to OHKO 4/0 Kyogre after Stealth Rock, hitting 88.01% maximum damage, and does 47.15% - 55.56% to RPDon, which shows just how powerful it is. Sucker Punch works great with Focus Punch, usually allowing Croak to get in two attacks if it can set up a Substitute. It does 51.41% - 61.02% to 4/0 Mewtwo, a solid 2HKO, and even more to Lati@s. Ice Punch finishes off the moveset, OHKOing everything with a 4x weakness to it (Garchomp has a 12.82% chance to survive it after Stealth Rock damage) and giving you another option to use against Pokémon like Giratina-O that may not attack your Substitute immediately. It definitely has less potential than the Nasty Plot set and won't be sweeping teams any time soon, but SubPunching is a viable alternative strategy to pursue with Toxicroak that can certainly earn it a spot on Uber offensive teams.

Teammates

Kyogre should be on every team with Croak. It brings eternal rain with it into the battle, which REALLY helps Croak out for reasons I've mentioned before. Don't leave home without it!

Wobbuffet can help Croak set up with Encore and brings down Scarfers like Garchomp or Dialga that can put an end to its sweep. Wobbuffet makes a good teammate for EVERYTHING in Ubers.

Giratina-O can take Fire and Ground attacks aimed at Croak, does decently against Ho-Oh and Shaymin-S (basically the only two users of Flying moves in Ubers), and blocks Rapid Spin so that Croak can get the OHKOs it needs to get.

Darkrai can sleep a Pokémon that Croak doesn't like, plus it attracts Bug- and Fighting-type moves, which Croak resists and can set up on. Again, a good teammate for almost anything.

Blissey can stop most Scarfers cold, spread paralysis around, and even heal Croak via Wish, making it an excellent teammate...although it can do the same for everything else in Ubers. FUK BLOBS

Rayquaza can lure out and severely weaken or KO Groudon, Lati@s, ScarfPalkia, and other Pokémon that Croak doesn't want around. Plus it's a general badass, so why not stick it on your team?

If you have ideas about other teammates for Croak, say so and I'll put them here if they sound good. Finally, here's a sample team that I made to showcase NPCroak (I haven't yet made one that revolves around SubPunchCroak, although it would likely be similar):

Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
---
Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Nature: Modest
EVs: 240 HP/240 SpAtk/28 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
---
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Calm
EVs: 24 HP/252 Def/84 SpAtk/148 SpDef
- Ice Beam
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled
- Thunder Wave
---
Darkrai @ Lum Berry
Ability: Bad Dreams
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
- Dark Pulse
- Dark Void
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
---
Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 216 HP/32 Def/224 SpAtk/36 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Substitute
- Thunder
---
Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
Nature: Modest
EVs: 56 HP/252 SpAtk/20 SpDef/180 Spe
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Bomb
---

OK, that about does it for this post. Discuss away! Also, if you have any specific questions about damage calcs or other details of how Toxicroak works in Ubers, feel free to ask!

Credits:
Cherubi - damage calcs
Psypoke - images

 

[ck49]

I would think that this in many ways is similar to parasect, who has spore. I never would have thought of using this though. cool idea

 

[Articanus]

I used a LO SubPunching Toxicroak a long time ago. Sucker Punch, Ice Punch, Substitute, and Focus Punch: with the centralization of Specs Kyogre, it was serious threat. Not sure how it would do now with Groudon increasing in usage, but even then it takes a chunk with Focus Punch. Groudon+Giratina destroys it, however.

 

[360Swampert]

Intresting Pokemon to use in ubers But it seems that groundon or a fast version of any psychic pokemon in ubers could probably OHko it due to as you said paper thin defences.

A kyorge + toxicroak combo sounds fairly intresting but then it would probably need a Ground pokemon to round it off as Thunder can Kill kyorge and Damage Toxicroak fairly well without any form of resistance

 

[Optimusje]

I remember discussing croak on #stark a while back, and i think Vacuum Wave deserves a mention. Croaks sluggish speed will almost always have it outpaced, and vacuum wave lets it dish out hits to stuff like dialga (2hkoing if im not mistaken) and darkrai (same here).

It is more usefull in VGC though, due to its great pairing with kyogre. In 1v1 it is much harder to support properly.

 

[locopoke]

I have been testing Nasty Plot set since yesterday and I do feel like Vacuum Wave deserves a mention, as well as Sucker Punch. Sucker Punch does generally the same amount of damage to Gira-o but it hits Lati@s much harder and makes up for Toxicroak's poor speed. This doesn't require attack EVs, just changing the nature from Modest to Mild is enough (I suggest Mild over Rash because you want to be able to survive stuff like Spacial Rend and Dragon Pulse).

I'll keep testing and results / logs here.

EDIT: I got to 1525 with this team in a few battles, but admittedly the people on the ladder aren't very good. I saved the logs of my first 10 battles or something, so I'll post those.

Log #1

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
locopoke sent out Rayquaza (lvl 100 Rayquaza).
AhYesReapers sent out Dialga (lvl 100 Dialga).
Dialga is exerting its pressure!
Lickiganium has entered the room.
Lickiganium: hey loco
AhYesReapers switched in Cresselia (lvl 100 Cresselia ?).
Rayquaza used Draco Meteor.
Cresselia lost 58% of its health.
Rayquaza's special attack was harshly lowered.
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
---
locopoke: hi
locopoke switched in Dialga (lvl 100 Dialga).
Dialga is exerting its pressure!
Cresselia used Ice Beam.
Dialga lost 12% of its health.
---
Cresselia used Light Screen.
A barrier was formed!
Dialga used Draco Meteor.
Cresselia lost 26% of its health.
Dialga's special attack was harshly lowered.
---
Cresselia used Reflect.
A barrier was formed!
Dialga used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
Lickiganium has left the room.
Cresselia used Ice Beam.
Dialga lost 13% of its health.
Dialga used Draco Meteor.
Cresselia lost 13% of its health.
Dialga's special attack was harshly lowered.
---
Cresselia used Ice Beam.
A critical hit!
Dialga lost 28% of its health.
Dialga used Flamethrower.
Cresselia lost 2% of its health.
AhYesReapers's Cresselia fainted.
---
AhYesReapers switched in Garchomp (lvl 100 Garchomp ?).
Pointed stones dug into Garchomp.
Garchomp lost 6% of its health.
Garchomp used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Dialga lost 47% of its health.
locopoke's Dialga fainted.
Garchomp lost 10% of its health.
---
locopoke switched in Kyogre (lvl 100 Kyogre).
Kyogre's Drizzle caused a storm!
Rain began to fall!
AhYesReapers switched in Latios (lvl 100 Latios ?).
Pointed stones dug into Latios.
Latios lost 12% of its health.
Kyogre used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Latios lost 29% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
Latios used Thunder.
It's super effective!
Kyogre lost 78% of its health.
Kyogre used Thunder Wave.
Latios is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
The rain continues to fall.
Kyogre's leftovers restored its health a little!
Kyogre restored 6% of its health.
---
Kyogre used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Latios lost 30% of its health.
Latios used Thunder.
It's super effective!
Kyogre lost 29% of its health.
locopoke's Kyogre fainted.
Latios's light screen wore off!
The rain continues to fall.
---
locopoke switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Scizor used U-turn.
It's super effective!
Latios lost 28% of its health.
AhYesReapers's Latios fainted.
locopoke switched in Rayquaza (lvl 100 Rayquaza).
Latios's reflect wore off!
The rain continues to fall.
---
AhYesReapers switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
The rain stopped.
A sandstorm brewed!
Pointed stones dug into Tyranitar.
Tyranitar lost 12% of its health.
Rayquaza used Brick Break.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 88% of its health.
AhYesReapers's Tyranitar fainted.
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
AhYesReapers switched in Garchomp (lvl 100 Garchomp ?).
Pointed stones dug into Garchomp.
Garchomp lost 6% of its health.
Rayquaza used Extremespeed.
A critical hit!
Garchomp lost 64% of its health.
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
Garchomp used Dragon Claw.
It's super effective!
Rayquaza lost 70% of its health.
locopoke's Rayquaza fainted.
Garchomp lost 10% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
locopoke switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Garchomp used Fire Fang.
It's super effective!
Scizor lost 100% of its health.
locopoke's Scizor fainted.
Garchomp lost 4% of its health.
AhYesReapers's Garchomp fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
locopoke switched in Kingdra (lvl 100 Kingdra ?).
AhYesReapers switched in Dialga (lvl 100 Dialga).
Dialga is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Dialga.
Dialga lost 6% of its health.
Kingdra used Draco Meteor.
Dialga lost 76% of its health.
Kingdra's special attack was harshly lowered.
Kingdra lost 10% of its health.
Dialga used Draco Meteor.
It's super effective!
Kingdra lost 90% of its health.
locopoke's Kingdra fainted.
Dialga's special attack was harshly lowered.
The sandstorm rages.
---
locopoke switched in Toxicroak (lvl 100 Toxicroak ?).
Toxicroak used Focus Blast.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Dialga lost 18% of its health.
AhYesReapers's Dialga fainted.
Toxicroak lost 10% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Toxicroak is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Toxicroak lost 6% of its health.
---
AhYesReapers switched in Mewtwo (lvl 100 Mewtwo).
Mewtwo is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Mewtwo.
Mewtwo lost 12% of its health.
Toxicroak used Sucker Punch.
It's super effective!
Mewtwo lost 49% of its health.
Toxicroak lost 10% of its health.
Mewtwo used Ice Beam.
Toxicroak lost 49% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Mewtwo is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Mewtwo lost 6% of its health.
Toxicroak is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Toxicroak lost 6% of its health.
---
Toxicroak used Sucker Punch.
It's super effective!
Mewtwo lost 33% of its health.
AhYesReapers's Mewtwo fainted.
locopoke wins!
AhYesReapers: gg

His team was wierd, Toxicroak won it for me but I was surprised his Mewtwo wasn't packing Recover. I wouldn't have won here if I had been running Dark Pulse though.

Log #2

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
locopoke sent out Rayquaza (lvl 100 Rayquaza).
tobeornottobe sent out Deoxys-f (lvl 100 Deoxys-f).
Deoxys-f is exerting its pressure!
Lickiganium has entered the room.
Rayquaza used Extremespeed.
Deoxys-f lost 100% of its health.
Deoxys-f hung on using its Focus Sash!
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
Deoxys-f used Ice Punch.
It's super effective!
Rayquaza lost 90% of its health.
locopoke's Rayquaza fainted.
---
locopoke switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
tobeornottobe switched in Bronzong (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
It's not very effective...
Bronzong lost 15% of its health.
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
locopoke switched in Dialga (lvl 100 Dialga).
Dialga is exerting its pressure!
Bronzong used Hypnosis.
Dialga fell asleep!
Dialga's Lum Berry cured its Sleep!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
Dialga used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Bronzong used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 3% of its health.
---
Dialga used Flamethrower.
It's super effective!
Bronzong lost 65% of its health.
Bronzong used Hypnosis.
Dialga fell asleep!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
tobeornottobe switched in Kyogre (lvl 100 Kyogre).
Kyogre's Drizzle caused a storm!
Rain began to fall!
Pointed stones dug into Kyogre.
Kyogre lost 12% of its health.
Dialga is fast asleep!
The rain continues to fall.
---
Kyogre used Water Spout.
It's not very effective...
Dialga lost 72% of its health.
Dialga woke up!
Dialga used Draco Meteor.
Dialga's attack missed!
The rain continues to fall.
---
locopoke switched in Toxicroak (lvl 100 Toxicroak ?).
Pointed stones dug into Toxicroak.
Toxicroak lost 6% of its health.
Kyogre used Water Spout.
Toxicroak's Dry Skin absorbed damage!
Toxicroak restored 6% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Toxicroak soaked up rain!
---
tobeornottobe switched in Bronzong (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Pointed stones dug into Bronzong.
Bronzong lost 6% of its health.
Toxicroak used Focus Blast.
Toxicroak's attack missed!
The rain continues to fall.
Toxicroak soaked up rain!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
Toxicroak used Focus Blast.
Bronzong lost 41% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Bronzong fainted.
Toxicroak lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Toxicroak soaked up rain!
Toxicroak restored 10% of its health.
---
tobeornottobe switched in Rayquaza (lvl 100 Rayquaza).
Pointed stones dug into Rayquaza.
Rayquaza lost 25% of its health.
locopoke switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Scizor.
Scizor lost 12% of its health.
Rayquaza used Swords Dance.
Rayquaza's attack was sharply raised.
The rain continues to fall.
---
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
Rayquaza lost 45% of its health.
Rayquaza used Overheat.
It's super effective!
Scizor lost 88% of its health.
locopoke's Scizor fainted.
Rayquaza's special attack was harshly lowered.
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
locopoke switched in Dialga (lvl 100 Dialga).
Dialga is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Dialga.
Dialga lost 6% of its health.
Rayquaza used Extremespeed.
It's not very effective...
Dialga lost 22% of its health.
locopoke's Dialga fainted.
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
locopoke switched in Kyogre (lvl 100 Kyogre).
Kyogre's Drizzle caused a storm!
Pointed stones dug into Kyogre.
Kyogre lost 12% of its health.
Rayquaza used Extremespeed.
Kyogre lost 69% of its health.
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Rayquaza fainted.
Kyogre used Ice Beam.
But there was no target!
The rain continues to fall.
Kyogre's leftovers restored its health a little!
Kyogre restored 6% of its health.
---
tobeornottobe switched in Palkia (lvl 100 Palkia).
Palkia is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Palkia.
Palkia lost 12% of its health.
Palkia used Spacial Rend.
Kyogre lost 25% of its health.
locopoke's Kyogre fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
---
locopoke switched in Kingdra (lvl 100 Kingdra ?).
Pointed stones dug into Kingdra.
Kingdra lost 12% of its health.
Kingdra used Draco Meteor.
It's super effective!
Palkia lost 88% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Palkia fainted.
Kingdra's special attack was harshly lowered.
Kingdra lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
tobeornottobe switched in Kyogre (lvl 100 Kyogre).
Kyogre's Drizzle caused a storm!
Pointed stones dug into Kyogre.
Kyogre lost 12% of its health.
Kingdra used Outrage.
Kingdra went on a rampage!
Kyogre lost 65% of its health.
Kingdra lost 10% of its health.
Kyogre used Thunder.
Kingdra lost 68% of its health.
locopoke's Kingdra fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
---
locopoke switched in Toxicroak (lvl 100 Toxicroak ?).
Pointed stones dug into Toxicroak.
Toxicroak lost 6% of its health.
Toxicroak used Sucker Punch.
Kyogre lost 10% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Kyogre fainted.
Toxicroak lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Toxicroak soaked up rain!
Toxicroak restored 12% of its health.
---
tobeornottobe switched in Heracross (lvl 100 Heracross ?).
Pointed stones dug into Heracross.
Heracross lost 12% of its health.
Heracross used Close Combat.
It's not very effective...
Toxicroak lost 48% of its health.
Heracross's defence was lowered.
Heracross's special defence was lowered.
Toxicroak used Sludge Bomb.
Heracross lost 84% of its health.
Toxicroak lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Toxicroak soaked up rain!
Toxicroak restored 12% of its health.
---
Toxicroak used Sucker Punch.
It's not very effective...
Heracross lost 4% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Heracross fainted.
Toxicroak lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Toxicroak soaked up rain!
Toxicroak restored 12% of its health.
---
tobeornottobe has left the room.
locopoke wins!

Toxicroak dealt some good damage here. He was able to switch into choiced Water Spout which meant something had to die to Focus Blast. I honestly haven't seen too many choiced 'Ogres but when I do Toxicroak is always my go-to-guy. It was also cool how he walled the shit out of Heracross.

Log #3

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
locopoke sent out Rayquaza (lvl 100 Rayquaza).
tobeornottobe sent out Deoxys-f (lvl 100 Deoxys-f).
Deoxys-f is exerting its pressure!
Rayquaza used Extremespeed.
Deoxys-f lost 100% of its health.
Deoxys-f hung on using its Focus Sash!
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
Deoxys-f used Ice Punch.
It's super effective!
Rayquaza lost 90% of its health.
locopoke's Rayquaza fainted.
---
locopoke switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
tobeornottobe switched in Bronzong (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
It's not very effective...
Bronzong lost 16% of its health.
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
locopoke switched in Dialga (lvl 100 Dialga).
Dialga is exerting its pressure!
Bronzong used Hypnosis.
Dialga fell asleep!
Dialga's Lum Berry cured its Sleep!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
Root has entered the room.
xedge has entered the room.
Dialga used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Bronzong used Hypnosis.
Dialga fell asleep!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 4% of its health.
---
PaRADEiS has entered the room.
Dialga is fast asleep!
Bronzong used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
xedge: lol wtf? this thing is OU now?
PaRADEiS: Yes
Richybabes has entered the room.
locopoke: this is ubers
Root: yeah
tobeornottobe switched in Kyogre (lvl 100 Kyogre).
Kyogre's Drizzle caused a storm!
Rain began to fall!
Pointed stones dug into Kyogre.
Kyogre lost 12% of its health.
Dialga is fast asleep!
The rain continues to fall.
---
xedge: I see
Kyogre used Water Spout.
It's not very effective...
Dialga lost 65% of its health.
Dialga is fast asleep!
The rain continues to fall.
---
locopoke switched in Toxicroak (lvl 100 Toxicroak ?).
Pointed stones dug into Toxicroak.
Toxicroak lost 6% of its health.
Kyogre used Water Spout.
Toxicroak's Dry Skin absorbed damage!
Toxicroak restored 6% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Toxicroak soaked up rain!
---
Justatest3 has entered the room.
tobeornottobe switched in Rayquaza (lvl 100 Rayquaza).
Pointed stones dug into Rayquaza.
Rayquaza lost 25% of its health.
Toxicroak used Nasty Plot.
Toxicroak's special attack was sharply raised.
The rain continues to fall.
---
Rayquaza used Swords Dance.
Rayquaza's attack was sharply raised.
Toxicroak used Sludge Bomb.
A critical hit!
Rayquaza lost 75% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Rayquaza fainted.
Toxicroak lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
xedge: lol?
xedge: tobe...
tobeornottobe switched in Palkia (lvl 100 Palkia).
Palkia is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Palkia.
Palkia lost 12% of its health.
Richybabes: did the crit matter there?
locopoke: uh no lol
Justatest3: no
PaRADEiS: Or not tobe
xedge: not really
Palkia used Spacial Rend.
Toxicroak lost 79% of its health.
Toxicroak used Sludge Bomb.
Palkia lost 88% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Palkia fainted.
Toxicroak lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Toxicroak soaked up rain!
Toxicroak restored 12% of its health.
---
tobeornottobe switched in Kingdra (lvl 100 Kingdra ?).
Pointed stones dug into Kingdra.
Kingdra lost 12% of its health.
xedge: but he SD'ed lol
Richybabes: Idk how good toxicroak is
locopoke: NP not SD
locopoke: oh you mean him
Toxicroak used Sucker Punch.
A critical hit!
Kingdra lost 71% of its health.
Toxicroak lost 10% of its health.
Kingdra used Draco Meteor.
Kingdra's attack missed!
The rain continues to fall.
Toxicroak soaked up rain!
Toxicroak restored 12% of its health.
---
locopoke: lol
locopoke: sorry
xedge: wow this toxi is fire
Ragequake has entered the room.
Kingdra used Outrage.
Kingdra went on a rampage!
Toxicroak lost 17% of its health.
locopoke's Toxicroak fainted.
Kingdra lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
locopoke switched in Dialga (lvl 100 Dialga).
Dialga is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Dialga.
Dialga lost 6% of its health.
xedge: wow sporty
Kingdra used Outrage.
Dialga lost 29% of its health.
locopoke's Dialga fainted.
Kingdra lost 6% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Kingdra fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
---
r dub has entered the room.
locopoke: I actually
locopoke: was expecting him to try and
locopoke: save his kingdra
locopoke: so i used sludge to make sure he can't send in something else
locopoke: kingdra was dead anyway
xedge: not sporty then, evil :p
PaRADEiS: Sludge is a cool move
locopoke switched in Kyogre (lvl 100 Kyogre).
tobeornottobe switched in Bronzong (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Kyogre's Drizzle caused a storm!
Pointed stones dug into Kyogre.
Kyogre lost 12% of its health.
Pointed stones dug into Bronzong.
Bronzong lost 6% of its health.
Kyogre used Surf.
Bronzong lost 86% of its health.
Bronzong used Hypnosis.
Kyogre fell asleep!
The rain continues to fall.
Kyogre's leftovers restored its health a little!
Kyogre restored 6% of its health.
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
locopoke switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Scizor.
Scizor lost 12% of its health.
Bronzong used Grass Knot.
It's not very effective...
Scizor lost 5% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
Scizor used U-turn.
Bronzong lost 20% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Bronzong fainted.
locopoke switched in Kingdra (lvl 100 Kingdra ?).
Pointed stones dug into Kingdra.
Kingdra lost 12% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
tobeornottobe switched in Kyogre (lvl 100 Kyogre).
Kyogre's Drizzle caused a storm!
Pointed stones dug into Kyogre.
Kyogre lost 12% of its health.
Kingdra used Outrage.
Kingdra went on a rampage!
Kyogre lost 60% of its health.
Kingdra lost 10% of its health.
Kyogre used Thunder.
Kingdra lost 78% of its health.
locopoke's Kingdra fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
---
Splintie has entered the room.
locopoke switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Scizor.
Scizor lost 12% of its health.
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
It's not very effective...
Kyogre lost 15% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Kyogre fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
---
locopoke: gg
tobeornottobe switched in Deoxys-f (lvl 100 Deoxys-f).
Deoxys-f is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Deoxys-f.
Deoxys-f lost 0% of its health.
tobeornottobe's Deoxys-f fainted.
locopoke wins!
tobeornottobe has left the room.
PaRADEiS: bg
r dub has left the room.
Ragequake has left the room.
xedge: damn my white knight chronicles avy is sleeping
PaRADEiS: gg*

Basically I was ballsy and decided to stay in on Rayquaza with +2 SpA and he tried Swords Dancing only to get OHKO'd by Sludge Bomb. After that I survived Spacial Rend thanks to my HP / SpD investment and KO'd Palkia. Then I got lucky and crit with Sucker Punch while Kingdra's Draco Meteor missed. I expected him to try and save Kingdra *for whatever reason* and go to Kyogre so I Sludge Bombed instead but Toxicroak was gonna die anyway. "I take risks and they pay off."

I got lazy so I'll stop here and post more later. I guess this is why I never contribute...

 

[mtr]

Don't worry, locopoke, people on the ladder start getting decent after about 1500.

As for Toxicroak, I think it looks viable (anything that can deal with Kyogre it), but the current "Draco Meteor-obsessed" metagame isn't kind to it.

 

[ZetoTarken]

Could a Swords Dance set work?
252 Atk, 180 Spe, 56 HP, 20 SpDef
Swords Dance
Low Kick
X-Scissor/Sucker Punch
Ice Punch/Sucker Punch
Basically works like the NP set but
1) Its primary attack has 100% Accuracy, is backed by the higher attack stat, and usually has the same power
2) Most Ubers have lower defenses
3) You're dancing and that's just cooler

Low Kick basically OHKOs everything that doesn't resist it at +2.
Things that can survive a +2 Low Kick after SR damage are: Support Groudon, Rayquaza(73.8%-86.9%), Salamence, Forretress(84.7%-100)%, Shaymin-S, and all the Psychics and Ghosts. Ho-Oh takes over 50% from a +2 Low Kick so it needs SR off the field to threaten you. If I missed anything let me know.
X-Scissor is primarily for Wobbuffets doing 92-108.7%, usually a KO after SR. Naturally anything with less bulk(read: all the psychics that want to come in on Low Kick) will be 1hkod as well.
Ice Punch 1hkos hit Mence and Ray as well as Giratina-O after SR.
Sucker Punch can be used over X-Scissor or Ice Punch to KO the fast Psychics and severely damage Shaymin-S. However, without X-Scissor Wobbuffet laughs at you and without Ice Punch any faster Giratina-O, although rare, can Shadow Sneak you to death as Sucker Punch fails if the opponent attacks first.
Random note: In the rain Mewtwo cannot 1hko you barring Self-Destruct, a Crit, Choice Specs, or a bad player using Psychic.

 

[Megan_Fox]

the pokemon itself seems promising, the only problem with attempting to settup on kyogre is that it can easily go for a Thunder/IB instead of the expected waterspout. i know i occasionally do it if expecting a Latias/Palkia switchin

 

[DFang]

Toxicroak has been a favorite of mine for a while, I've used it since DP first came out. Back then, you still had a lot of wifi battles with people abusing the crap out of ubers and not taking the time to learn about the new pokes.

Toxicroak's water immunity, sucker punch and fighting STAB work very well in Ubers. Status is usually the end of him though.

I've used this set for general reliability:

Jolly, 252 Att, 252 Spd
Focus Sash
-Sucker Punch
-Brick Break
-Poison Jab
-Swords Dance

Sash usually guarantees at least one round of setup. Brick break can be replaces with Cross Chop for power. I prefer BB for reliabilty and screen breaking. Poison Jab or Gunk Shot is great for unprotected pokemon like Kyogre or Palkia that won't like being poisoned either. Steels are immune to poison, but not keen on boosted fighting STAB. Suckerpunch for ghosts, psychics and some priority.

Other notable moves are Super Fang, Ice Punch, Stone Edge, EQ. To be honest though, the moveset above has always worked well for me. Just avoid status and Toxicroak does well.

 

[shrang]

Why Brick Break?? Toxicroak is weak as hell already. Use Low Kick. Seriously.

 

[ZetoTarken]

Why Poison Jab? The only things that it hits harder than Low Kick are Shaymin-S, Rayquaza, and Ho-oh. Ho-oh will either Out speed and 1hko or if you don't have SR down survive and 1hko. If you have SR down Low Kick kos it anyway. Ray will probably out speed and KO and Shaymin-S out speeds and KOs...
And why Focus Sash... you can't switch into moves unless they're water where sash doesn't matter since if its on a choiced poke they have to switch out anyway otherwise you're getting 2hkod. The only common user of Surf that the sash protects you from is Palkia since Lustrious Orb Spacial Rend is a 1hko to your set but you don't KO with Sucker Punch...
The common users of Surf being Kyogre and Palkia

 

[Deep Thought]

re: vacuum wave, sucker punch on npcroak

vacuum wave is terrible, seriously. what exactly do you beat with vacuum wave that you don't beat already? nothing. (don't say darkrai because if it switches in as you use nasty plot, you beat it more often than it beats you!) as for sucker punch, it might be useful in certain situations, but if you use it over dark pulse, you lose to wobbuffet, lugia, mew, giratina-a, slow giratina-o...it's other options material at best imo. if you have useful logs to show that prove me wrong, please post them!

re: sdcroak

after running a bunch of calcs, i concluded that there's really no reason to use 'jedi croak' over 'sith croak' because you don't beat anything with it that you would lose to with npcroak, whereas sdcroak can't break through giratina-a, groudon, jirachi (because of its low weight), and even random physical walls like mewtwo or skarmory. this is when you are using swords dance/low kick/ice punch/x-scissor - if you run sucker punch over x-scissor, you run into many of the same problems i mentioned above about using sucker punch on npcroak. sucker punch really isn't as powerful as it seems to be, so instead of relying on priority to beat faster pkmn, use paralysis and trapping support because they're simply more effective. again, if you have logs that show why sdcroak deserves its own set, i would love to see them!

i may post logs of my own from battles using the team from the op when i have the time to ladder for a while. until then, stay tuned and keep the discussion flowing!