Pokémon Decidueye

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Man, I'm running like three different sets for this thing on three different teams and they are all doing work lol. defensive offensive, this thing ended up being wayy better than what I expected out of it after the leaks. So glad, between this and marowak they were my new favorite announced mons. (Both of them seem to have a real niche in the tier.) His ability to lure in walls and choose a way to deal with them is actually pretty awesome. Whether it be an offensive or defensive set he really seems to be able to get things done. Whether he makes it into OU idk, but he will definitely see some play there if not to simply trap and kill problems for sweepers on teams and pairing well other trappers.
 
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I'm working on a set that's basically Curse/Roost heavy. On paper it works, but what do you guys think?

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Roost
- Spirit Shackle
- Leaf Blade

I'm trying to make something that traps, strangles, and keeps itself pretty. Leaf Blade is coverage. Runs slow but I'm working it. Any tips?
 
I'm working on a set that's basically Curse/Roost heavy. On paper it works, but what do you guys think?

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Roost
- Spirit Shackle
- Leaf Blade

I'm trying to make something that traps, strangles, and keeps itself pretty. Leaf Blade is coverage. Runs slow but I'm working it. Any tips?
I'd recommend giving protect over leaf blade a try. A free turn of leftovers and curse damage, while preserving Roost PP.
 
I'm telling you guys, Curse is a gimmick that just doesn't work against anything other than Stall, and that's a big maybe since most of the time people are gonna go out to Skarm which will just set up hazards all over you and phase you out when you try to Curse it, MSab which beats you in a 1v1, or Chansey who can't be shackled at all in the first place. Against any other playstyle it's not gonna work since you won't be able to set all of it up and heal in time before getting killed. Just stick with the SpDef build for now until the meta settles imo, and then after shit finally comes off the fan, we can experiment more with the neat little toys Decidueye gives us.
 
I'm working on a set that's basically Curse/Roost heavy. On paper it works, but what do you guys think?

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Roost
- Spirit Shackle
- Leaf Blade

I'm trying to make something that traps, strangles, and keeps itself pretty. Leaf Blade is coverage. Runs slow but I'm working it. Any tips?
Is curse even used at all right now?

I've always seen it as literal suicide on any pokemon that is a ghost type.
 
You're all describing Curse as if it's some wild deviation from the usual. It's literally the same SpDef build with the potential to kill off a passive mon in place of either Defog or U-Turn. You're not obligated to use Curse when you happen to trap something you can't beat. Just clicking Curse against a Stall teal without trapping is also easy pressure for your other mons because they're forced to switch eventually, and Decidueye can easily recover against stallmons. Is it worth losing Defog/U-Turn? If your team can make up for it then probably.

It's a cool trick and if you're already using Decidueye (which let's be real isn't exactly that good rn) you might as well get the occasional surprise.
 
You're all describing Curse as if it's some wild deviation from the usual. It's literally the same SpDef build with the potential to kill off a passive mon in place of either Defog or U-Turn. You're not obligated to use Curse when you happen to trap something you can't beat. Just clicking Curse against a Stall teal without trapping is also easy pressure for your other mons because they're forced to switch eventually, and Decidueye can easily recover against stallmons. Is it worth losing Defog/U-Turn? If your team can make up for it then probably.

It's a cool trick and if you're already using Decidueye (which let's be real isn't exactly that good rn) you might as well get the occasional surprise.
It's just a waste of a moveslot overall in my opinion. You already pressure Stall enough with your bulk, ability to remove hazards, semi-trapping, and typing. There's no need for Curse when it just makes you deadweight against other playstyles that you already don't fare all too well against in certain MUs.
 

ausma

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I can totally see Decidueye as some sort of pivot trapper with Spirit Shackle (STAB trapping move with a really good offensive typing and base power?? that's freaking great dude). It would really just take proper prediction in order to make use of the mechanics and actually take out a 'mon.

Maybe the opponent predicts a switch out of Decidueye and then goes into something else. Spirit Shackle basically isolates that threat and can assist Decidueye in knocking out that said 'mon, thus eliminating a possible threat. Would be neat in that regard.

I'd imagine something like this as a sample set using the idea:

rocco (Decidueye) @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow (Long Reach once that releases)
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Spirit Shackle
- Leaf Blade
- U-turn

Overall, quite the neat niche, if you ask me (albeit situational). It's a shame it doesn't have the sufficient speed to take advantage of.
 
Is curse even used at all right now?

I've always seen it as literal suicide on any pokemon that is a ghost type.
Curse never has really ever been viable in competitive play, but I suppose there is some merit using it against stall teams. Otherwise yes, you are sacrificing 1/2 HP of a decent defensive Pokemon just to get off passive damage against a team that might take more for just a direct hit (especially in an early meta where hyper and bulky offense is king).

On a separate note, I feel like there are so many gimmicky sets on this forum right now in general - perfectly normal for the start of a new generation, but what I'm not seeing is consideration of consistency - basically asking the question, how often does this set do what it is supposed to, and how well does it do it? In this instance, Curse is rather inconsistent, as it drops you at a really sub-optimal HP range just for the CHANCE to do some passive damage. You give your opponent a free guaranteed -50% for -25% on their Pokemon at least, but if Decidueye gets KO'd very soon after, you're down one more Pokemon that could have served better use in the battle. The same instance can be applied to moves like Hyper Beam or...Slaking. Sure, you hit hard, but is it worth giving the opponent a free turn? Life Orb and Choice items are different because YOU, the user, are given an IMMEDIATE ADVANTAGE over the opponent in your power, then the cost comes later, and even then, is more easily worked around.

Anyway...I feel like either the meta hasn't settled enough for us to really see Decidueye's use, or it simply isn't good enough for OU. I'm hoping its the former - say what you will about Grass's offensive coverage, but hitting Water/Rock/Ground isn't too shabby given all the Tapu Fini and ground types running around. Unfortunately, the meta is so full of Steel types that Decidueye just gets flat-out walled by a lot unless you're running an obscure coverage set. Regardless, the main reason to ever use Decidueye is Spirit Shackle. No, it is not as good as Shadow Tag and Arena Trap, nor will it ever be, simply because it takes a turn to get the trapping off. However, Decidueye most likely works best with some mindgame play in there - predict switches, trap something you wall/counter, gain a bunch of momentum. The fact that it can do this with Defog and Roost is great too, which makes Decidueye a early or midgame pivot, like what everyone else is saying.

You can be given some defensive/utility-based wiggle room if you run Tapu Fini or an Aromatherapist/Heal Bell user on your team too, because Dedicueye gets worn down by all hazards and status. I can see it working well with Tapu Fini as a core due to their solid type coverage and balanced offensive/defensive stats. A steel type, like Celesteela, can cover Poison/Flying moves too. You can also run Volt-Turn, as Spirit Shackle just sets up all kinds of momentum-based mindgames and plays, as long as you have your side of the field clear of hazards.

tl;dr - we haven't seen Decidueye's skillcap in the meta yet and may not for a while, but I feel like there's a lot of potential to be determined.

Edit: the posts above me basically summed up my points as well.
 
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ausma

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Regardless, the main reason to ever use Decidueye is Spirit Shackle. No, it is not as good as Shadow Tag and Arena Trap, nor will it ever be, simply because it takes a turn to get the trapping off. However, Decidueye most likely works best with some mindgame play in there - predict switches, trap something you wall/counter, gain a bunch of momentum. The fact that it can do this with Defog and Roost is great too, which makes Decidueye a early or midgame pivot, like what everyone else is saying.
Yeah, that's all I honestly see going for it. Like I said, I think it's a neat niche due to that one turn execution; it allows for prediction, and opens the opportunity for possible threats to be taken out. That could be the key to winning a battle given the situation.
 
Also I'll mention this. I haven't used it, but I know people who have and said it works. This thing can run a set with

-spirit shackle
-curse
-roost
-toxic/Defog/etc.
The reason I dismiss this set as a gimmick is because the opportunity cost of running it is just way too high. Yes, this thing can in theory function as an anti-stall mon, but you're wasting an entire teamslot to have an anti-stall mon that does virtually nothing against other teams. The combination of U-Turn + Spirit Shackle is where I see the most potential in this because you can really play mind games over the course of a game with U-Turn, then you go for the Spirit Shackle when you predict a favorable switch. Otherwise, you're just waaaayyyyy better off using a different wall/stallbreaker that can also function in a hyper/bulky offensive metagame.

Interestingly enough, on the defensive side of things, Long Reach is cool against Rocky Helmet/Ferrothorn because it causes your U-Turns to not make direct contact, meaning you take a lot less residual damage when playing against bulkier sets. This thing seems a lot more like what we all wanted Trevanent to be back in XY--a really cool answer to bulky Waters and physical Grass types--plus it can bring utility in Defog and momentum in U-Turn or SubPass.
 

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My thoughts on Curse Decidueye are simple:

"Oh look a faster way to die to a Bisharp Pursuit."

I mean I wouldn't say it is the worst set on Earth but man you have to be desperate to Curse down something like this. Maybe if you used it against some stall team, but without Taunt it is a long uproad battle against those that have recovery or can phaze you out.
 
Anyway...I feel like either the meta hasn't settled enough for us to really see Decidueye's use, or it simply isn't good enough for OU.
It's a good special wall. Decidueye is one of the hardest checks to Lando-I, everything Lando can do is neutral or worse except HP Ice which only 3HKOs, and Knock Off and HP Flying screw you but those are rare.

It also a very solid electric check, it's one of the sturdiest (Marowak-A shuts them down but doesn't have recovery.) None of them can get past you except physical Tapu Koko, Knock Off/HP Flying Thundurus, and (if it gets released) Mega Manectric. Raikou also gives some trouble but can't get past without CM or LO. It also checks many waters, e.g. Rotom-W, Keldeo, Kingdra lacking LO Ice Beam or Outrage, and Tapu Fini.

On top of this it defogs, it spinblocks, and it's immune to Z-Hyper Beam, which I imagine will gain some traction as the meta forms. Spirit Shackle is a frankly amazing move, and Baton Pass has some good applications.
 
I find it funny how quickly people brushed off Decidueye, saying it would be relegated to UU or even RU. Decidueye certainly has a niche in OU and is one of the rare cases where it actually works better in practice than it seems on paper. It will only get better as the meta settles out. Spirit Shackle is amazing, and together with Defog and the Ghost typing, it really has a niche over its fellow Grass/Ghost brethren.
 
This guy does have the potential to be really good. He can check water types, electric types, and even other grass types if he chooses to run Brave Bird. The utility for spirit shackle is so good and is so much fun to use. This guy can be a lot of things, but unfortunately he can't be all of these things at once.
 
The real clincher is that Decidueye gets Roost, making it the only Grass/Ghost with a reliable recovery move (I don't count Rest on Natural Cure Trevenant because you must switch). The others must use Leech Seed/Giga Drain/Horn Leech/Pain Split.

Also, I think running enough Speed to outrun Heatran is worth it for the SubPass set. You lose out on the option of switching in setting up all over Ferrothorn, but you can still outspeed it and pass the Substitute if it switches in on you. It all depends on how much speed investment becomes common for Heatran this time around, though.
 
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The reason I dismiss this set as a gimmick is because the opportunity cost of running it is just way too high. Yes, this thing can in theory function as an anti-stall mon, but you're wasting an entire teamslot to have an anti-stall mon that does virtually nothing against other teams. The combination of U-Turn + Spirit Shackle is where I see the most potential in this because you can really play mind games over the course of a game with U-Turn, then you go for the Spirit Shackle when you predict a favorable switch. Otherwise, you're just waaaayyyyy better off using a different wall/stallbreaker that can also function in a hyper/bulky offensive metagame.

Interestingly enough, on the defensive side of things, Long Reach is cool against Rocky Helmet/Ferrothorn because it causes your U-Turns to not make direct contact, meaning you take a lot less residual damage when playing against bulkier sets. This thing seems a lot more like what we all wanted Trevanent to be back in XY--a really cool answer to bulky Waters and physical Grass types--plus it can bring utility in Defog and momentum in U-Turn or SubPass.
THANK you. Someone finally gets it. I sound like a broken record but this thing is really just a Balance/Bulky Offense mon that when played correctly can force a threat to stay in and safely bring in a counter, or gain a ton of momentum strictly from one move
 
I can totally see Decidueye as some sort of pivot trapper with Spirit Shackle (STAB trapping move with a really good offensive typing and base power?? that's freaking great dude). It would really just take proper prediction in order to make use of the mechanics and actually take out a 'mon.

Maybe the opponent predicts a switch out of Decidueye and then goes into something else. Spirit Shackle basically isolates that threat and can assist Decidueye in knocking out that said 'mon, thus eliminating a possible threat. Would be neat in that regard.

I'd imagine something like this as a sample set using the idea:

rocco (Decidueye) @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow (Long Reach once that releases)
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Spirit Shackle
- Leaf Blade
- U-turn

Overall, quite the neat niche, if you ask me (albeit situational). It's a shame it doesn't have the sufficient speed to take advantage of.
Does that speed or hp investment help it with anything in particular? jw
 
The real clincher is that Decidueye gets Roost, making it the only Grass/Ghost with a reliable recovery move (I don't count Rest on Natural Cure Trevenant because you must switch). The others must use Leech Seed/Giga Drain/Horn Leech/Pain Split.

Also, I think running enough Speed to outrun Heatran is worth it for the SubPass set. You lose out on the option of switching in setting up all over Ferrothorn, but you can still outspeed it and pass the Substitute if it switches in on you. It all depends on how much speed investment becomes common for Heatran this time around, though.
Gourgeist gets Synthesis for what it's worth.
 

ausma

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Does that speed or hp investment help it with anything in particular? jw
The speed investments allow it to outspeed certain pokemon and the HP allows for more sufficient sustain from Roost.
You can go 252 speed and 4 hp if you want, it's really just a personal preference.
 
The speed investments allow it to outspeed certain pokemon and the HP allows for more sufficient sustain from Roost.
You can go 252 speed and 4 hp if you want, it's really just a personal preference.
You can't just say certain pokemon and then not tell us which pokemon it outspeeds lol. Else it's just an irrelevant stat spread.
 
Gourgeist gets Synthesis for what it's worth.
Thanks, I was thinking Gourgeist got recovery and checked quickly for Recover and forgot about Synthesis. My bad. Heatran and Mega Scizor are the notable benchmarks to try to creep, I'd say. And maybe defensive MegaSaur.
 
The speed investments allow it to outspeed certain pokemon and the HP allows for more sufficient sustain from Roost.
You can go 252 speed and 4 hp if you want, it's really just a personal preference.
Well I was asking because I actually went a little heavier on hp with enough speed to ensure I can outpace defensive rotom-w.
 

ausma

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You can't just say certain pokemon and then not tell us which pokemon it outspeeds lol. Else it's just an irrelevant stat spread.
Well, the spread ultimately causes it to get 217 speed points overall. That barely outspeeds uninvested 90 base speed 'mons, and some variants of Pokemon like Mandibuzz/Skarmory that run mild speed investments. A surefire outspeed over Rotom Wash is also to note, too.

Overall, the investment is meant to help Decidueye outspeed 'mons that have a sliver over average speed stats, so Spirit Shackle can land first and ensure the trapping.
 
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