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Deoxys E Discussion

Should the SPEED Version of deoxys be allowed in standard play

  • Yes - it has sufficient counters

    Votes: 170 51.1%

  • No - the movepool is still too wide and the "counters" don't wall deoxys good enough

    Votes: 163 48.9%
  • Total voters
    333
technically none of you should be answering this poll or posting in this thread since the what two days that DX-S has been allowed on shoddy can not possibly give any of you the perspective needed to give your arguments any validity but i guess that hasnt stopped many of you in the past huh
 
I'm going to absolutely hate Deoxys-S in OU since I run a Scarf Roserade lead. Other than that, my team can take it (Shedinja ftw) so I don't see a problem.

It's still too early to decide though. I would love to test it but all I have for internet access right now is a Wii, so no Shoddy for me.
 
I'd say the most effective set would be Superpower/Psycho Boost/Shadow Ball/HP Fire, meaning that the only effective counters I can see are mixed walls resisting Psycho Boost, notable Cresselia, Spiritomb, and Bronzong. And since two of those are quite common, I'd agree with it being in OU for now, albeit being a godly Poke that dramatically forces Cresselia use.
 
It's Deoxys-S...

TBH I like Supperpower/IB/TB/[recover/psycho boost] for insane revenge killing.
 
Notty said:
Uhh...

Pursuit is in no way a threat to Deoxys-S.

Tyranitar and Weavile eat Superpower, Heracross gets nailed by Psycho Boost, and Metagross (who *never* uses Pursuit outside of Ubers hinthint) can be dealt with by using HP Fire.

And Deoxys-S doesn't have 50/50/50 Defenses, he has 50/90/90 Defenses. He's not going to shrivel and die to anything that looks at him funny.
Click to expand...


Thats why I said that the choice variants are easily countered. Switch TTar into thunderbolt, ice beam, shadow ball, psycho boost etc. and then CB Pursuit it... As earlier stated, Life Orb users are harder to beat. Of course, remember it has just 397 MAXIMUM ATTACK STATS with the Life Orb... nothing really fancy, considering most Life Orb sets split the EVs.
 
From my experiences with Deoxys-E, the Life Orb variant (and by extension Choice Specs/Band) is more powerful than people accredit it. Even though my Togekiss managed to withstand a hit and OHKO (after one NP), Deoxys managed to come within a dangerous margin of OHKOing my Milotic (Calm nature, 252 HP, 56 SpD).
 
We'll have to wait to see how it does. However I took part in that tournament and I didn't find much problem to stop deoxys-e with my OU team (not designed for it). It really isn't that strong, meaning that it only has chances with super-effective moves.

Life orb deoxys is very easy to fool and takes a shitload of recoil damage, banded ones have just one try, and other ones can be forced to switch out with pokes that are neutral-resistant to it. Deoxys-e doesn't like to switch in because it takes severe damage, so it won't have many chances to try and harass you.

I see pursuit-gross raising in popularity.
 
Spaniard said:
We'll have to wait to see how it does. However I took part in that tournament and I didn't find much problem to stop deoxys-e with my OU team (not designed for it). It really isn't that strong, meaning that it only has chances with super-effective moves.

Life orb deoxys is very easy to fool and takes a shitload of recoil damage, banded ones have just one try, and other ones can be forced to switch out with pokes that are neutral-resistant to it. Deoxys-e doesn't like to switch in because it takes severe damage, so it won't have many chances to try and harass you.

I see pursuit-gross raising in popularity.
Click to expand...
Posts like this are why I think theorymon deserves a lot more credit than it gets.

What kind of Deoxys-E did you face? What was on your team? Was it just running something generic like Bolt/Beam/Grass Knot/Shadow Ball? Who did you use to counter it?

If your answer to Deoxys-E people used in the tourney was to just send out Blissey, you weren't facing a good enough Deoxys-E. People are saying "It wasn't difficult to counter", but well yeah, if it doesn't have Shadow Ball of course Azelf will take a Thunderbolt and KO it with Shadow Ball. If your opponent just didn't give it Superpower, hell yeah, Blissey comes in every time. If it doesn't have Psycho Boost, a ton of things can come in without being threatened.

I don't see why people are basing these opinions when most experienced people just didn't bother to look at Deoxys-E, and most of the Deoxys-E sets sucked and thus people easily killed it, which is why they don't think it's uber-capable, when quite clearly some sets are.
 
you know how many evs it needs to garantee a KO on blissey with superpower after swiching in on psycho boost?

guess, dont look.


it needs 252 in both attacks, this will do 100.28% damage min. and whats left for hp/speed? nothing. well 4 evs, and they arnt doing much, blissey + a semi defencive fighting resist (e.g. mence, cressy, even bulkraptor) + decent prediction skills can counter it fine.
 
eric the espeon said:
you know how many evs it needs to garantee a KO on blissey with superpower after swiching in on psycho boost?

guess, dont look.


it needs 252 in both attacks, this will do 100.28% damage min. and whats left for hp/speed? nothing. well 4 evs, and they arnt doing much, blissey + a semi defencive fighting resist (e.g. mence, cressy, even bulkraptor) + decent prediction skills can counter it fine.
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That's too bad. I guess my whole argument is invalid. Blissey's ability, which allows it to switch in every time at 100% health, is just broken. Damn you Gamefreak, for not implementing some sort of move that causes damage every time something switches in!

noob3 said:
lol deo-e sucks it needs speed investment to even outrun scarfgar..
Click to expand...
Huh? It needs to invest speed EVs to outspeed a Base 110 Pokemon holding a Choice Scarf? That's pretty damn slow if you ask me.
 
BLAZIKEN_57 said:
Posts like this are why I think theorymon deserves a lot more credit than it gets.

What kind of Deoxys-E did you face? What was on your team? Was it just running something generic like Bolt/Beam/Grass Knot/Shadow Ball? Who did you use to counter it?

If your answer to Deoxys-E people used in the tourney was to just send out Blissey, you weren't facing a good enough Deoxys-E. People are saying "It wasn't difficult to counter", but well yeah, if it doesn't have Shadow Ball of course Azelf will take a Thunderbolt and KO it with Shadow Ball. If your opponent just didn't give it Superpower, hell yeah, Blissey comes in every time. If it doesn't have Psycho Boost, a ton of things can come in without being threatened.

I don't see why people are basing these opinions when most experienced people just didn't bother to look at Deoxys-E, and most of the Deoxys-E sets sucked and thus people easily killed it, which is why they don't think it's uber-capable, when quite clearly some sets are.
Click to expand...

Well, don't expect me to explain everything because I don't have enough time and space. Trust me, my opponents didn't suck at all, and they carried sets that could shatter my team in pieces. I just say that from my experience it is simple to stop it with prediction. And yes I'm a very experienced player and I did sign up in the tournament to test deoxys-e.

Why don't you try to battle yourself and see how deoxys does before coming here saying uber, uber, uber, and telling us that we haven't explained everything.
 
Nice thread \o/


ZuZu switched in Deoxys-e (lvl 100 Deoxys-e).
Deoxys-e is exerting its pressure!
Nova used Thunderbolt.
Deoxys-e lost 43% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Deoxys-e is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Deoxys-e lost 6% of its health.
Nova is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Nova lost 6% of its health.
Deoxys-e's leftovers restored its health a little!
Deoxys-e restored 6% of its health.
Nova's leftovers restored its health a little!
Nova restored 6% of its health.

Yrael switched in Fang (lvl 100 Salamence &#9794.) .
Fang's intimidate cut Deoxys-e's attack!
Deoxys-e used Calm Mind.
Deoxys-e's special attack was raised.
Deoxys-e's special defence was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Deoxys-e is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Deoxys-e lost 6% of its health.
Fang is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Fang lost 6% of its health.
Deoxys-e's leftovers restored its health a little!
Deoxys-e restored 6% of its health.
Fang's leftovers restored its health a little!
Fang restored 6% of its health.

Deoxys-e used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Fang lost 100% of its health.
Yrael's Fang fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Deoxys-e is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Deoxys-e lost 6% of its health.
Deoxys-e's leftovers restored its health a little!
Deoxys-e restored 6% of its health.

Yrael switched in Cyclone (lvl 100 Weavile &#9794.) .
Cyclone is exerting its pressure!
Cyclone used Ice Shard.
Deoxys-e lost 50% of its health.
Deoxys-e used Thunderbolt.
Cyclone lost 53% of its health.
Yrael's Cyclone fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Deoxys-e is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Deoxys-e lost 6% of its health.
Deoxys-e's leftovers restored its health a little!
Deoxys-e restored 6% of its health.

Yrael has left the room.
ZuZu wins!

(4 Pokémon remaining)

After a mind, Deoxys-E isn't counterable by many teams... =/
 
Spaniard said:
Well, don't expect me to explain everything because I don't have enough time and space. Trust me, my opponents didn't suck at all, and they carried sets that could shatter my team in pieces. I just say that from my experience it is simple to stop it with prediction. And yes I'm a very experienced player and I did sign up in the tournament to test deoxys-e.

Why don't you try to battle yourself and see how deoxys does before coming here saying uber, uber, uber, and telling us that we haven't explained everything.
Click to expand...
I've already argued my views. But since theorymon isn't good enough, I'll have to test it in real battle, which I did. Here are some logs for proof:

I sent out Deoxys-E!
My neighbor sent out Heracross!

Deoxys-E used Psycho Boost!
(100% Damage)
Heracross fainted!

My neighbor sent out Blissey!

Deoxys-E used Superpower!
(88% Damage)
Blissey used Giga Impact!
(48% Damage)

Deoxys-E used Superpower!
(12% Damage)
Blissey fainted!

My neighbor sent out Pidgey!

Deoxys-E used Ice Beam!
(100% Damage)
Pidgey fainted!

My neighbor sent out Bidoof!

Deoxys-E used Thunderbolt!
(100% Damage)
Bidoof fainted!

My neighbor sent out Zubat!

Deoxys-E used Thunderbolt!
(100% Damage)
Zubat fainted!

My neighbor sent out Geodude!

Deoxys-E used Ice Beam!
(100% Damage)
Geodude fainted!
Blaziken_57 wins!

As you can see from my awesome log, Deoxys-E sweeps teams with ease.

Does this prove anything? No. Why did I post this satirical log? To prove a point.

This is what I've been seeing a lot of. "OMG, I easily countered Deoxys-E the other day, I switched in Garchomp and BAM the Deoxys-E couldn't do anything at all then PWNAGE" doesn't show anything in the slightest.

Discuss.
 
Blissey used Giga Impact!
Click to expand...
paf.gif
 
froggy, salamence isn't a DX-E counter, so whichever one of you switched sala into it is not a good battler, plain and simple. One calm mind isn't going to allow DX-E to sweep most good teams anyway, certainly not at 6-6 (and blaziken's entire log is sarcastic)
 
astrohawke said:
This still isn't fast enough to be totally awesome though. It needs some major speed investment just to outspeed the most common adamant scarfchomp. It would have to go into +speed nature to outspeed scarfers that are faster than that like gengar, jolly scarfchomp among others. This is a little too much speed investment for my liking especially with its mediocre attack stats.
Click to expand...

Deoxys-E only needs 72 speed EV's with a +speed nature to outspeed Scarfchomp, so you can dump quite a bit into it's attacking stats if you want to. 10% damage from taking away a +atk or +spatk nature isn't going to cost you that much.

As it stands right now, I am all for Deoxys-E going back to uber's, as my experience's with it are that even with it's "mediocre" stats it's still a huge threat. The problem in this topic is that everyone is trying to say that it's going to sweep teams 6-0, and that it's always going run something similar to TBolt / Ice Beam / Superpower / Shadow Ball @ Life Orb. Deoxys-E's movepool is much, much larger than that and it has plenty of other tricks up it's sleeve.

Although, as Jumpman said, Deoxys-E has only been "released" for 2 days, and it will take a little time to settle into a niche in OU.
 
while it does indeed have a large movepool most of it is useless outside of making it take out niche counters to it
 
Slice n Dice said:
When I get on shoddy, I will happily punish multiple deoxys-s with my pursuit spiritomb!
Click to expand...

Only if you save you Spiritomb for late game, which is when Deoxys-E thrives the most. I don't want to jump into a "what-if" battle with anyone here though, I simply want to say that just having a Pursuit Spiritomb isn't going to nesecarily save you from Deoxys-E.
 
Jumpman16 said:
technically none of you should be answering this poll or posting in this thread since the what two days that DX-S has been allowed on shoddy can not possibly give any of you the perspective needed to give your arguments any validity but i guess that hasnt stopped many of you in the past huh
Click to expand...

I am going to quote this because people need to read again.This why stop playing pokemon how about waiting and testing something about before saying it is broken.Let the game determine what is broken,If deoxy-E ends up on every team and then you have to use only certain poke to counter it is broken but let that happen first before saying it.
 
Well, looking at the logs of this page itself, i'm gonna say all of them doesn't say anything. Firstly, who switches Sala into Deoxys?
Next, why in the world is someone using giga impact on BLISSEY?
Heck, why is someone using giga impact in the first place.

Gotta agree with jumpman/luck here.
 
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