Or you could run Taunt / Recover / Night Shade / Cosmic Power, which beats everything except Togekiss and CB Heracross with Toxic Spikes set up.
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Deoxys E Discussion
- Thread starter Peanut-Lover
- Start date
Or you could run Taunt / Recover / Night Shade / Cosmic Power, which beats everything except Togekiss and CB Heracross with Toxic Spikes set up.
After 1 Cosmic Power Deoxys-E's overall defenses are better than that of Dusknoir's. After 2 Cosmic Power's it's pretty much the equivelant of Cresselia, except with Taunt, Recover, and 4 more possible Cosmic Power's to boost its defense / spdef. Deoxys-E is just as dangerous running a stall set as an attacking set.
You're missing the point. Yes, Deoxys-E has to boost it's defense, but not only does it have Cosmic Power, which boosts both defenses, it also gets taunt, which means nothing else can stat up against it. Also, you missed my point in comparing Deoxys-E's defense to Dusknoir's. Would you say that Dusknoir is bad at taking hits? You're being far to close minded by saying a defensive Deoxys-E sucks, I'll bet you haven't even actually tried it yet.
I use Recover/Spikes/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam. Basically, I use it like a Starmie that can Spike: scare off things weak to it, and if they're going to switch out of me, I use the free turns to shrug off damage. Difference is, unlike Starmie, it has better things to do on the opposing switch, like Spiking without getting trapped, and bluffing a really good movepool.
I've tried a staling set on a team that sets up Toxic Spikes. Inevitably they CH Deoxys-S and it goes down. Now, maybe its the rest of my team that's flawed or I focused too much on outspeeding Adamant Scarfchomp and not enough on defenses. The offensive sets are probably better, the staller is just too CH prone.
can someone give me the ev spread/moves that staller deoxys uses?
is it like
deoxys@leftys
calm/bold
252 hp/enough speed to outspeed scarfchomp/ splt between defences
taunt
nightsade ??/ maybe toxic?? which one?
cosmic power ???
recover
if you use toxic you get walled by any steel or flyer. if you use night shade normals wall you forever. and crits will take you down whatever you do.
is it like
deoxys@leftys
calm/bold
252 hp/enough speed to outspeed scarfchomp/ splt between defences
taunt
nightsade ??/ maybe toxic?? which one?
cosmic power ???
recover
if you use toxic you get walled by any steel or flyer. if you use night shade normals wall you forever. and crits will take you down whatever you do.
Just run 36 speed to outrun Scarf Heracross. With a neutral nature, Deoxys-E needs almost 252 speed to outrun Scarfchomp. An easier way to use a stall type Deoxys-E is to set up Toxic Spikes before hand. Also, I don't see how flying pokemon wall you if run Toxic, you can just hit them with it. The only thing that walls you with Night Shade would be Togekiss. Staraptor will be stalled out of PP rather quickly thanks to Brave Bird and Close Combat having low PP. Swellow will KO itself with its Burn / Toxic Orb. I don't think any other flyers are used in OU.
In my opinion what makes the Taunt set so deadly is Pressure and that Taunt has 20 base PP. It ccan easily outstall a team with a little luck against Critical Hits. Add to that a fast Recover and a consistent damaging move and you have god.
It does have very painful shortcomings, though: Things that would usually be afraid of it, ie Gengar and Tyranitar, easily 2HKO it regardless of stat-ups, and their moves have 24 PP and 20% of the time will lower your stats, as well as another 6.25% of the time it will Critical Hit and either OHKO or nearly OHKO. Deoxys-S will be constantly under pressure from their attacks. Hypnosis Gengar and Dragon Dance/Taunt Tyranitar are just as troublesome. Neither can be handled the same way. Normal types will make you cry.
The mixed attacker has breakthrough problems, the Staller has survivability problems.
It does have very painful shortcomings, though: Things that would usually be afraid of it, ie Gengar and Tyranitar, easily 2HKO it regardless of stat-ups, and their moves have 24 PP and 20% of the time will lower your stats, as well as another 6.25% of the time it will Critical Hit and either OHKO or nearly OHKO. Deoxys-S will be constantly under pressure from their attacks. Hypnosis Gengar and Dragon Dance/Taunt Tyranitar are just as troublesome. Neither can be handled the same way. Normal types will make you cry.
The mixed attacker has breakthrough problems, the Staller has survivability problems.
Don't use a neutral speed nature...it's really dumb. The difference between +speed and neutral: 45 points. The difference between +attack/defense/sp. attack/sp. defense and neutral: 28.
How to kill Deoxys:
1. Switch in Jirachi.
2. Body Slam.
Seriously, 95 SAtk is not going to shatter the universe. Not even Rash and Choice Specs. Spiritomb, appropriate-EV'd Cress, ExtremeSpeed (barring its own), Shadow Sneak... just because your team isn't ready for it doesn't mean it's gamebreaking. Seriously, it's like saying Gyarados is a god because it's one of many to get Taunt. It's not a bad move, but it was a lot better before people realized Skarmory wasn't the all-time physical sweeper switch-in.
1. Switch in Jirachi.
2. Body Slam.
Seriously, 95 SAtk is not going to shatter the universe. Not even Rash and Choice Specs. Spiritomb, appropriate-EV'd Cress, ExtremeSpeed (barring its own), Shadow Sneak... just because your team isn't ready for it doesn't mean it's gamebreaking. Seriously, it's like saying Gyarados is a god because it's one of many to get Taunt. It's not a bad move, but it was a lot better before people realized Skarmory wasn't the all-time physical sweeper switch-in.
Yeah, or you switch in Jirachi, get Taunted, Body Slam for hardly any damage, and then get KO'd by Night Shade. The reason Taunt is so dangerous on Deoxys-E is because it's the faster user of Taunt in the game.
Also, Deoxys-E can easily just switch out of Jirachi. This has been gone over many, many times in this topic. Jirachi only beats non HP Fire, attacking Deoxys-E. Stall Deoxys-E beats Jirachi, and even a HP Fire attacking set will keep Jirachi on it's toes.
Now that I'm using standard deoxys-e (life orb, bolt, beam, superpower, boost) I'm getting more convinced that its broken.
It's still hard to choose though because any line is a line in the sand. atm I think garchomp @ yache berry (dance, rage, quake, fang) is more broken (I also use it on my team atm would you believe it lol).
Blissey is good, but I still don't get why more people use blissey than garchomp...
It's still hard to choose though because any line is a line in the sand. atm I think garchomp @ yache berry (dance, rage, quake, fang) is more broken (I also use it on my team atm would you believe it lol).
Blissey is good, but I still don't get why more people use blissey than garchomp...
Are you kidding? Body Slam does a good chunk of damage (are you thinking Knock Off?). Taunt doesn't stop 60% parahax. Not to mention that 50/90 is very hard to stall with. Night Shade isn't even a 5HKO on Jirachi with Lefties, so Jirachi Wishes when E is paralyzed by Body Slam. To say that Deoxys-E beats Jirachi is ridiculous and wrong. HP Fire does under 50% to 252 HP Jirachi.
No, I'm not thinking Knock Off, seeings as Jirachi doesn't even learn it. If you're opponent is running a Cosmic Power Deoxys-E, Body Slam won't do shit. Taunt will stop your Jirachi from Wishing to Heal itself while Deoxys-E simply Night Shade's away.
HP Fire will also keep Jirachi on its toes. It won't 2HKO, but it will force Jirachi to use Wish to heal itself, giving you a free switch. If you don' wish, Jirachi won't be able to come in again, meaning Deoxys-E beats it. It is not in any way ridiculous or wrong to say Deoxys-E beats Jirachi. It is ridiculous and wrong to say that Jirachi beat's all Deoxys-E's.
Yes, Jirachi beats the generic Superpower / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball Deoxys-E that everybody uses, but there are other extremely effective sets that Jirachi can't do anything against.
HP Fire will also keep Jirachi on its toes. It won't 2HKO, but it will force Jirachi to use Wish to heal itself, giving you a free switch. If you don' wish, Jirachi won't be able to come in again, meaning Deoxys-E beats it. It is not in any way ridiculous or wrong to say Deoxys-E beats Jirachi. It is ridiculous and wrong to say that Jirachi beat's all Deoxys-E's.
Yes, Jirachi beats the generic Superpower / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball Deoxys-E that everybody uses, but there are other extremely effective sets that Jirachi can't do anything against.
It'll be more like: Switch in Jirachi, get Taunted, Body Slam for little damage paralyzing Deoxys making it near useless.
Ok I find many points raised in this discussion to be seriously flawed. You don't need one definitive pokemon that can wall every single form of Deoxys-S at once. Just because no one pokemon can wall Dragon Dance, Mix, CB, and Choice Specs Tyranitar at once doesn't mean Tyranitar is uncounterable. Just because there are very few pokemon that you can just blindy chuck into Deoxys and expect to beat it every single time doesn't mean it can't be countered.
The way I see it, there are plenty of very solid counters for every kind of Deoxys with any kind of moves or items, but there aren't that many that can beat all of them at once. I really don't see any form of Deoxys ever getting past Spiritomb, with any set really, and pokemon like Bronzong, Jirachi, Dusknoir, and Cresselia beat it almost every time, but just because they don't beat every single possible Deoxys moveset doesn't disqualify them as counters.
I mean this is getting a little silly. Just because Gyarados can possibly carry Fire Blast doesn't make Tangrowth not a great Gyarados counter. If Deoxys goes out of its way to include a move that beats one of its regular counters, chances are it just opened itself up to a different counter. Sure he can run a stall set and beat Cresselia or whatever, but now he's left open to plenty of other pokemon who don't need to worry about statusing him or recovering and can just take him out with a hard-hitting SE attack
The way I see it, there are plenty of very solid counters for every kind of Deoxys with any kind of moves or items, but there aren't that many that can beat all of them at once. I really don't see any form of Deoxys ever getting past Spiritomb, with any set really, and pokemon like Bronzong, Jirachi, Dusknoir, and Cresselia beat it almost every time, but just because they don't beat every single possible Deoxys moveset doesn't disqualify them as counters.
I mean this is getting a little silly. Just because Gyarados can possibly carry Fire Blast doesn't make Tangrowth not a great Gyarados counter. If Deoxys goes out of its way to include a move that beats one of its regular counters, chances are it just opened itself up to a different counter. Sure he can run a stall set and beat Cresselia or whatever, but now he's left open to plenty of other pokemon who don't need to worry about statusing him or recovering and can just take him out with a hard-hitting SE attack
Just because a defensive Deoxys-E gets paralyzed doesn't make it usless. Yes, it takes away some of its adavantage, but does that make it usless? Not at all.
Actually, Swampert does a pretty good job at that.
I've shown multiple times how a defensive Deoxys-E beats all of those pokemon. Even without Toxic Spikes set up, Deoxys-E can still beat all of them. Taunt stops all of these pokemon from recovering any HP. Night Shade will do 100 damage every attack to all of them, and none of those pokemon listed can do much at all to Deoxys.
Danyul said:
Actually, Swampert does a pretty good job at that.
Danyul said:
I've shown multiple times how a defensive Deoxys-E beats all of those pokemon. Even without Toxic Spikes set up, Deoxys-E can still beat all of them. Taunt stops all of these pokemon from recovering any HP. Night Shade will do 100 damage every attack to all of them, and none of those pokemon listed can do much at all to Deoxys.
Again, the Night Shade argument is entirely ruined by the fact that Night Shade ALWAYS can't KO before the Taunt wears off with my faster after para Wish letting me easily break you. Besides, you'd need to have gotten more than one Cosmic Power to have a chance at breaking Jirachi, and if that happens then he can just Zen Headbutt your paralyzed ass so you can't do anything half the time, easily stalling for a crit. Deoxys E can almost never beat Jirachi, he needs a Choice Specs HP Fire to hope to.
And that's just one guy too. That craptastic 50 HP can't be boosted, severly limiting his "tanking" ability. Throwing in the odds of it switching into anything safetly and the numerous non-Thunder Wave paralysis moves like Body Slam to cripple its only above average stat and that "fastest Taunt is gamebreaking" argument goes to shit. Cresselia walls it (A special wall Cress, but still). Empoleon can do fine and take one Superpower and OHKO with Hydro Pump. Spiritomb utterly walls him. To say that Deoxys-E poses an immediate threat to most OU teams is bullshit. Stop whining and get a priority move.
First of all, I said NEAR useless. Second of all, it takes away ALL of it's advantages. It's no longer the fastest taunt in the game, and when you have that low HP, you can't afford to be fully paralyzed and give your opponent a free turn to setup or attack. For example, you're opponent finds out you're running the stall set, and paralyzes your Deoxys(in one way or another). Now, they send out a Weavile/Gyarados who is significantly faster than you. He Swords Dances/Dragon Dances(or even taunts you, now you're really screwed), if you're fully paralyzed, and can't taunt it, it gets another free turn.
Paralysis comletely screws over Deoxys.
Taunt lasts 2-5 turns. Night Shade is a 5HKO. Wish takes 2 turns to heal. As long as Taunt lasts 4 or 5 turns, Deoxys-E will beat Jirachi since Wish won't heal it before it's KO'd. That's a 50% chance.
As for your Cresselia / Spiritomb arguement, both of them are also beaten by the same Deoxys-E. Taunt stops Cresselia from using Rest / Moonlight, and Spiritomb from using Pain Split. If Toxic Spikes are down, Spiritomb will go down even faster. If not, it's still 4HKO'd by Night Shade. Cresselia will also fall to Night Shade, albeit much more slowly.
I personally think the stall set is 100x better than the sweeper set.
I had about enough of this topic
1.I like everyone talks about toxic spikes in play for Deoxy E and not for the other person.I like how people are talking about switching out frail as hell pokemon in metagame that spikes,toxic spikes,SR, hail, sand storm as huge part.Please stop acting like pokemon is play in perfect world situation because it is not, Deoxy will have to take hit switch in sometimes and if can't okho the poke in or the next pokemon it is screwed.
2.Deoxy has straight up counters in Heracross, Dusknoir, Spirtomb, Jirachi, Metagross,Togekiss which are part of the metagame,not to mention poke that can poke specifically made to counter it.
1.I like everyone talks about toxic spikes in play for Deoxy E and not for the other person.I like how people are talking about switching out frail as hell pokemon in metagame that spikes,toxic spikes,SR, hail, sand storm as huge part.Please stop acting like pokemon is play in perfect world situation because it is not, Deoxy will have to take hit switch in sometimes and if can't okho the poke in or the next pokemon it is screwed.
2.Deoxy has straight up counters in Heracross, Dusknoir, Spirtomb, Jirachi, Metagross,Togekiss which are part of the metagame,not to mention poke that can poke specifically made to counter it.
Yes, I realize that I was wrong saying it was a 5HKO, my math was off. So, a specific Jirachi set can beat my stall Deoxys. Still, I find it funny that you're resorting to flames now. Have you nothing else to say besides "your set sucks"?
Ninjask puts a end to stall Deoxys(Night Shade is only a waste of time while it SD,if it isn't Taunted).Protect,bam,you're faster.X-Scissor,bam,it's dead.