Well, I guess he could set up screens like Deoxys might have? That being said, couldn't Prankster tricking Deoxys a Scarf be a viable strategy? Can't outspeed, can't Magic Coat.What did I say about posting ridiculous sets like this? What does that Azelf do against teams without a dual screens deoxys? Trick its Scarf away? Then what? This thread is about Deo's tiering and coming up with some extremely dedicated set that can't do anything else does not help the discussion.
The problem with this approach is since Deoxys-S is so fast, once the screens are stalled out it can still set them up again. The other thing is something that aldaron brought up earlier; Deoxys-S can switch out after it puts up the screens, and switch in again midgame to do it again. It makes it incredibly difficult to stop since Deoxys-S is the fastest dual screener in the tier, and can come in at will and set them up effortlessly. Azelf or Espeon can't really say they have the ability to do the same thing.I haven't had too much experience playing against dual screens deoxys, but that seems to be the set that most people view to be broken. I was just wondering if it would be possible to stall out the screens? For example you just let deoxys sit in the lead spot until there are only 1-2 turns of screens left and then you could kill it. Would that work?
While I agree that Deoxys-S can switch out, Deoxys-S can't really "switch in" on any attacks. If you're allowing Deoxys-S to switch in multiple times in a match, there is no way you are keeping any offensive pressure at all. I agree with AccidentalGreed; even Deoxys-S's immense speed doesn't seem to bring to the table enough extra to actually cause it to be broken. IMO the real cause of all of this concern over screens offense is the setup sweepers themselves. The options that hyper offense got have become very threatening, so giving them any kind of setup opportunity will make them much more difficult to handle.The problem with this approach is since Deoxys-S is so fast, once the screens are stalled out it can still set them up again. The other thing is something that aldaron brought up earlier; Deoxys-S can switch out after it puts up the screens, and switch in again midgame to do it again. It makes it incredibly difficult to stop since Deoxys-S is the fastest dual screener in the tier, and can come in at will and set them up effortlessly. Azelf or Espeon can't really say they have the ability to do the same thing.
PRANKSTER SABLEYE! with 252 HP/ 252 Sp. Def and inmunity to PsychoBoost.I would like to ban Deoxys-. Because Deoxys-S allows you to set-up one layer of hazards, something you usually can't prevent because it's just to freaking fast. And since the ban of Thundurus, there is no competitive user of Prankster in OU, that can't survive one hit from Deoxys and taunt it successfully.
Sure, you can try to play Tornadus non standard outside of a rain team, but the residual damage and even weakest attacks are bringing it down without even the use of Smack Down! And Deoxys can just BoltBeam it to oblivion, like Whimsicott, that faints from a super effective Ice Beam.
I just want to say, that it's not possible to prevent Deoxys from setting up, because it's just to fast. If you go with Scarftar it'll play a easy game with Superpower or it won't even start to avoid getting Crunch'd. Scarf Terrakion goes the same way, though he can 2HKO it, but then you're just setup-fodder for Skarmory or Forretress.
my couple cents,
LovelyTrio
I know, I said an absourd counter.What did I say about posting ridiculous sets like this? What does that Azelf do against teams without a dual screens deoxys? Trick its Scarf away? Then what? This thread is about Deo's tiering and coming up with some extremely dedicated set that can't do anything else does not help the discussion.
this sums it up right here. Deoxys-s is not broken by itself, it could possibly be considered broken when combined with other offensive threats, but is simply not broken by itself. banning the use of light clay w/ deoxys-s is the best way to remove the problem with duel screens(if you believe it is broken) but honestly, screens arn't really broken, with the prevalence of brick break on numorous pokes, its rediculously easy to remove them, and since most HO teams sack their deoxys-s after screens, they have no way to bring it back up. the other 2 sets are also due to scrutiny.ToF, Deoxys-S's speed doesn't matter if you kill Deoxys-S the turn or the turn before screens wore off.
I agree with Woodchuck - Deoxys-S is usually a one-time set up. People usually sac Deoxys-S, because they don't want their offensive sweepers taking damage or take indirect status via Scald burns or Jirachi's paraslam. Heavy Offensive tactics in general dissuades switches and promotes saccing. You can use this to your advantage by wearing down Deoxys-S with a move that wont kill it outright, burning Screen turns.
Taylor, are you saying that Deoxys-S is not broken, but it is in the same league as Excadrill / Thundurus / Blaziken / Garchomp, the suspects which you thought weren't broken either? Since all the respective weather got nerfed, now it's HO's turn to receive a nerf? All of the banned suspects were broken in their own right. Deoxys-S seems to be broken because it can set up a hazard or two / a screen or two. These can be accomplished without Deoxys-S's insane Speed by other monsters.
Usually bans elicit a visible change to the metagame. The loss of Garchomp, Blaziken, Excadrill, and even Thundurus is noticeable. This is because they had such a huge influence on the metagame that their elimination "freed up" the metagame. However, I don't see the same thing happening with Deoxys-S. HO teams will still be perfectly effective by replacing Deoxys-S with any of the several available Dual Screeners, such as Espeon or Jirachi. People will still struggle with Sweepers behind screens - it doesn't matter if Deoxys-S or Jirachi sets them up, because either of them can put them up consistently.
I mirror Woodchuck's view that Dual Screen offense is not broken to begin with - setting up Dual Screens leave the opponent's team open to heavy assaults that can hugely dent the opponent's sweepers even with Screens up or leave them crippled with Scald burns / paraslams / etc.
Even if Dual Screen offense is an issue to the community, removing Deoxys-S will do little to curve their effectiveness. Banning Light Clay is what you guys should be pushing for, lol. Kind of analogous to the Damp Rock Suspect in DPP UU, because Rain Offense was powerful.
in the best way i can explain was when these pokemon were ou, yes, they were extremey powerful in their own ways like many of the current trends going on now, but together and the rest of what we built in our teams was its own metagame: bw ou.Taylor, are you saying that Deoxys-S is not broken, but it is in the same league as Excadrill / Thundurus / Blaziken / Garchomp, the suspects which you thought weren't broken either? Since all the respective weather got nerfed, now it's HO's turn to receive a nerf? All of the banned suspects were broken in their own right. Deoxys-S seems to be broken because it can set up a hazard or two / a screen or two. These can be accomplished without Deoxys-S's insane Speed by other monsters.
Banning Light Clay is what you guys should be pushing for, lol. Kind of analogous to the Damp Rock Suspect in DPP UU, because Rain Offense was powerful.
If you think it's a one turn setup Pokemon, you haven't played enough games with Deoxys-s helping Smash Pass teams, where it comes in like 2-3 times in one game and sets up screens. You don't kill Deoxys-s the turn before screens are finished, no player of these kinds of teams is that much of a retard to sacrifice Deoxys-s that easily.ToF, Deoxys-S's speed doesn't matter if you kill Deoxys-S the turn or the turn before screens wore off.
I agree with Woodchuck - Deoxys-S is usually a one-time set up. People usually sac Deoxys-S, because they don't want their offensive sweepers taking damage or take indirect status via Scald burns or Jirachi's paraslam. Heavy Offensive tactics in general dissuades switches and promotes saccing. You can use this to your advantage by wearing down Deoxys-S with a move that wont kill it outright, burning Screen turns.
I mirror Woodchuck's view that Dual Screen offense is not broken to begin with - setting up Dual Screens leave the opponent's team open to heavy assaults that can hugely dent the opponent's sweepers even with Screens up or leave them crippled with Scald burns / paraslams / etc.
Even if Dual Screen offense is an issue to the community, removing Deoxys-S will do little to curve their effectiveness. Banning Light Clay is what you guys should be pushing for, lol. Kind of analogous to the Damp Rock Suspect in DPP UU, because Rain Offense was powerful.
Yeah, me too, although I'm not going to go so far as to say that is outright Uber just yet. Right now, I'm basically using the suicide lead we used back in 4th gen Ubers (252 HP / 252+ Spe / 4 wherever @ Focus Sash, with Stealth Rock / Spikes / Taunt [or Magic Coat] / filler), and it is so damn easy to get up two layers of hazards. With ChopleTar going around (seriously, why do people use this), it can easily survive a Crunch and not get killed by Sandstorm and get up two layers, easily. For most Pokemon, this means 25% gone per switch-in. I've been using Lucario a lot with Deoxys-S lately, and let's just see what kind of impact that two layers has (Assuming Adamant, max Attack, LO).I really don't understand why most of this discussion is on the screens set. For me, it is the hazards lead that makes it an obvious Uber in my eyes.