Ditto (QC 3/3)

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Three layer of Spikes: 25% of health.
25% of 300 HP = 75 HP lost everytime
25% of 299 HP = 74 HP lost everytime

I see no reason not to remove this one HP that could be game-changing in some scenarios while the 252 HP spread will save it from absolutely nothing.
 
Look. This scenario involves you switching into exactly 3 layers of spikes 4 times, and NOTHING else. Or switching into 2 layers 6 times. Or maybe 2 layers three times and 3 layers twice. This will cause Ditto to faint when it otherwise wouldn't. But other than that, it's going to make a very small difference, of the order 1 or 2 hp, occasionally. For this you sacrifice 1 HP all of the time. How on earth is that worth it??
 
Jesus. We're talking about tiny differences here. You can't know what attacks ditto is going to take at all, but there is always a chance that it will survive a move with 1 HP.

The difference with the spikes thing is of a similar order. Is there something you survive with 1 hp after switching into two layers of spikes twice? Clearly reducing Ditto's hp is going to, on average, reduced Ditto's ability to take hits. It's common sense, really.
 
I completely agree with 248 HP, 1 HP point is never going to matter, ever, your defense goes down like .1%.

It isn't just not 3 layers of spikes either, if I am not mistaken, 1 layer or spikes and stealth rock does the same thing. Maybe 2 layers of spikes and sandstorm damage to. There are probably a ton of ways to get your HP down to 1/4, and even if I am wrong and it is only 3 spikes, do you really want to lose your ditto after 4 switch ins my 1 HP point when it does happen?
 
It's 3 layers of spikes or 2 layers, not any of the other things. To be honest, you are demonstrating an extremely poor understanding of what you are trying to argue. The chances of you switching into 3 layers of spikes and taking no other damage 4 times is so unbelieveably low. I doubt that you could provide me a log of it happening in a real battle even if you tried to do it.

In reality, the difference it makes is 1 or 2 HP WHEN 3 layers of spikes are up. But apparently that is totally insignificant. Can people not understand that the whole thing is an extremely minor detail?
 
I've been down to 1 hp with several pokemon however I've never died to 3 layers of spikes.. It never happens so lets stop arguing over a minor detail
 
why does everyone forget ditto's item? QUICK POWDER!! it makes sure it'll be faster than the opponent because it boosts ditto's speed, which makes for perfect revenge killing, and move selection
 
Elephant said:
why does everyone forget ditto's item? QUICK POWDER!! it makes sure it'll be faster than the opponent because it boosts ditto's speed, which makes for perfect revenge killing, and move selection
Click to expand...

It stops working as soon as Imposter or Transform activates i.e. when Ditto is no longer Ditto.
 
Why is there a 2 Spe IV? You're auto-losing to other Scarfers with that since Imposter doesn't copy IVs.
 
When I say it doesn't copy IVs, I'm only really referring to Hidden Power. It copies the opponents stats exactly, with their IVs included.
 
I'd mention Quick Powder & Metal Powder somewhere in the analysis, because not everybody knows that it stops working once it Transforms.

I've also been thinking of ways to possibly Transform without a Choice Scarf, but still going first. That way, when you defeat the opponent, you can switch moves & possibly sweep their team w/ their own Pokemon (lol). So far, I have 3 ideas:
1. Have another Pokemon use Tailwind, and then send out Ditto
2. Paralyze the Pokemon you want to Transform into, so that you'll always outspeed it.
3. Trick Room + Macho Brace

Also, I have a question: does Ditto take damage from Stealth Rock before or after it transforms?
 
I'll definitely mention that those Powder items don't work, and that ditto takes hazard damage before it transforms. Since there is fairly little else to write about, I'll explain how illusion works fairly thoroughly.

As for those three methods of outrunning the opponent, paralysis support is the only one that I would consider vaguely viable.
 
I'm surprised there's no mention of Red Card. It's basically Choice Scarf's more "defensive" counterpart.

While Choice Scarf is generally the better option with Dragonite and such lurking around, Red Card allows Ditto to steal any and all momentum gained by Bulk Up, Calm Mind, and Quiver Dance users as well as Full-Baton Bass Teams behind a Sub that lack Ingrain and Trick Room users; generally things Choice Scarf can't easily deal with. Red Card isn't entirely SOL when it comes to Dragon Dancers and the like either. While not entirely reliable, baiting a resisted move like Fire Punch from Dragonite or Stone Edge from Terrakion will let Ditto phaze out purely-offensive boosting Pokemon and steal all their momentum as well, making the loss of Choice Scarf a little more bearable than most other items choices.

It at least deserves a mention with Focus Sash already in AC. They work in about the same manner, removing a threat for a potentially substantial amount of HP, but Red Card's a lot easier on team building due to not requiring a spinner but rather prediction and manipulation.
 
I'm letting this be taken over. I would've written it, but ballabrown24 wanted to and I'm more than happy to let him.
 
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