DLC2 Crown Tundra Speculation Thread [SPOILERS]

[Finchinator]

WARNING: This thread will contain spoilers. Information about DLC2 Crown Tundra will be disclosed and if you do not wish to know this information prior to release, then please do not proceed.

Recently, we received news about DLC2 Crown Tundra and you can find the official video from earlier today here:

In addition, a list of the Pokemon that are confirmed in DLC2 Crown Tundra can be found in the following image:

For a list of all of the movepool changes, check out here. The most notable of these changes can be found in this post here as well. In addition, this post shows them by generation here. Finally, a list of DLC move tutor compatibility for unreleased Pokemon can be found here.

Above we have presented a lot of information that will help shape the metagame of tomorrow. Personally, I am very excited about all of this. I am sure many of you guys are, too, and a great way to express your excitement and personal views on all of these new Pokemon could be creating a tiered list on all of the new Pokemon being released. Here is a link to the tiermaker with all of the new relevant Pokemon (do note: it is missing some alternate forms of Pokemon being released, so feel free to discuss them in posts independently of your tier list if you would like to).

This is an example list that my fellow moderator and co-forum leader Jordy made:

Some other topics for discussion for those interested in posting are:

• Which Tapu do you think will be the best and worst?
  • Note: There have been some relevant moves added to their repertoires and it will be interesting to see how they pan out in the metagame.
• Which long-time OU staple (Heatran, Garchomp, Landorus-Therian, Zapdos, Latios, Latias, etc.) are you most looking forward to returning and why?
• Which new form or Pokemon are you most excited for and why?
• Which long-time Uber Pokemon do you think may be balanced in OU at some point this generation and why?
• Will we finally see teams with 6 Heavy Duty Boots users surface with the addition of almost 30 fully evolved Stealth Rock weak Pokemon with DLC2's release?
• What else are you excited about? What are you worried about? And what other observations do you have?

I hope everyone enjoys posting. Remember to adhere to normal forum rules!

 

[TPP]

Just gonna echo Finch real quick and say that this thread's gonna be pretty casual and the mods aren't planning on being as strict with moderation. This thread is here for all of us to have fun discussing what will soon arrive, and I look forward to enjoying the next 3 weeks hearing what everyone has to say. To start things off, I'll talk about a mon I have been dying to use for a very long time:

#BRINGBACKBLAZIKEN

It's been far too long since Blaziken's been legal in OU. Personally I started mons in gen 6, which was after Blaziken was already banned from OU, so I just really wanna use it at least once in OU. I'm pretty sure it's still broken and will probably get quick banned, but I am very excited for the 1-2 days we get to use it if the council allows it. It lost its mega, Baton Pass is banned, and Z moves no longer exist, so Blaziken's rolling on its own skill this time around. That being said, Swords Dance with Speed Boost will definetely push it over the edge.


Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Earthquake / Thunder Punch

I think this will probably end up as the broken set, since Swords Dance alongside Speed Boost allows Blaziken to threaten both defensive and offensive mons, and its stab moves (it gets Close Combat now) alongside Earthquake hit pretty much everything except for Latios, Latias, Dragonite, and Mantine. I thought about Thunder Punch in the last slot, mainly for Mantine and bulky waters like Tapu Fini, but I think the ability to 1HKO Toxapex after a Swords Dance is more important. Life Orb is required in order for that 1HKO to be possible, so I put that as the item, but the recoil might end up being too much, so who knows. As for checks and counters, Tank Garchomp, Tapu Fini, Zygarde, Latias, Latios, maybe Lando, Slowbro, Pelipper and Mantine look like the only mons that could stop it. Aqua Jet from Crawdaunt, Azumarill and Urshifu-Rapid Strike might work too.

Dragapult @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn

This is the standard set we have now, but with Draco Meteor > Dragon Darts because Dragon Darts does not 1HKO Garchomp nor Zygarde. I think Dragapult will be really good in the DLC2 meta because it naturally threatens a lot of the offensive mons that are returning, Ghost-type attacks + status is very difficult to switch into, and Zeraora slightly gets a little worse with Lando, Garchomp and Zygarde returning. For those reasons, I think Dragapult will remain strong. However, the biggest questions are:

1. Will scarf mons return and will Dragapult still suffice as speed control?
2. How common will Tapu Fini be? Misty Surge reduces Dragapult's potential as a threat since it can no longer status opponents.
3. Heatran being immune to Will-o-Wisp means it can potentially wall Dragapult and can basically provide another Dragapult answer. How will Dragapult deal with Heatran?

Zeraora @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Volt Switch
- Knock Off
- Toxic / Close Combat

Unfortunately it looks like Zeraora's time to shine is slowly coming to an end. Up until now, it has thrived in a metagame where Ground-types were uncommon and faster mons didn't usually exist, but with Lando and Garchomp returning, Zeraora is in store for a lot of trouble. Up until now, Grass Knot could take out common Ground-types like Hippowdon, Gastrodon and Rhyperior. However, it won't work on Garchomp nor Lando, which pretty much means Zeraora has to use something like Toxic to threaten them back. Toxic alongside Knock Off, Volt Switch, and Zeraora's speed tier should keep it somewhat viable, but I think it's probable that it won't be as good in DLC2 as it was in DLC1 or the Pokemon Home metagame.


Heatran @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 56 SpD / 204 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt / Toxic

It's safe to say Heatran will definetely be one of the biggest defensive additions to the tier. It'll help with Volcarona, Rotom-Heat, Tapu Lele, Hydreigon, Naganadel, Dragapult, and then offensively, it can pressure Clefable, Toxapex and Ferrothorn. It's also a Stealth Rock user that threatens Corviknight and Mandibuzz. The EV spread I put above hits 241 Speed in case something like Timid/Jolly Aegislash/Magnezone becomes a thing. This happened last gen after SPL, where Z-Heatran + Wish Clefable became a core, but this gen, the same can be done with Boots Heatran and Wish + Teleport Clefable. It'll be interesting to see if that core comes into play, and how effective it'll be. Gliscor being absent definetely helps a lot.

Only 3 more weeks to go, so let's enjoy it

 

[Monky25]

Gonna reserve this spot for a rant about why zygarde and genesect should stay unbanned and rather be retested then allowed in at the start

 

[musiquepkmn]

Yes! finally!

So here's a little anecdote:

When I heard from Blunder's channel that the Tapu's would get Rising Voltage/Expanding Force, my jaw hit the floor. OMG, these already strong Tapus getting base 160 moves before STAB? (Dracovish cough cough). Then I went to the handy dandy damage calculator, and I was stunned, but in the opposite way. Modest Specs Tapu Lele can't even muscle past Physdef Corviknight with Expanding Force? I was shocked, maybe the broken tapus would be balanced after all?

Yeah then I realized that there was a one time bug and the moves did not double/x1.5 in power like they should've.

Now im pro-ban

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Volcarona is in trouble, as without Hidden Power, there isn't a damn thing it can do about Heatran. That's why it needs something to lure in Heatran, and Sand Tomb Scizor can do just that.

relevant meme I made when DLC was first announced

 

[ThirdStrongestMole]

Yes! finally!

So here's a little anecdote:

When I heard from Blunder's channel that the Tapu's would get Rising Voltage/Expanding Force, my jaw hit the floor. OMG, these already strong Tapus getting base 160 moves before STAB? (Dracovish cough cough). Then I went to the handy dandy damage calculator, and I was stunned, but in the opposite way. Modest Specs Tapu Lele can't even muscle past Physdef Corviknight with Expanding Force? I was shocked, maybe the broken tapus would be balanced after all?

Yeah then I realized that there was a one time bug and the moves did not double/x1.5 in power like they should've.

Now im pro-ban

Here's another fun calc I just ran. Modest specs lele now has a chance to 2hko blissey without even clicking psyshock lmao.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 322-381 (45 - 53.3%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO

 

[musiquepkmn]

Bros and female bros i just was clicking in Tapu Koko

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Abomasnow in Electric Terrain: 224-264 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Abomasnow: 198-234 (61.6 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A resisted Stab hit dealing more damage than a neutral STAB hit...

Idk man seems kinda sus...pect but no quickban please

 

[BitBitio]

This guy might just be making a comeback. The tier always could use more defensive glue. Stuff like Pex and Fini drop to Electric moves and stuff like Hippo drops to Water moves. He’s looking to be a solid rocker in the tier, with some surprise offense sets like Band, Bulk Up, or even Specs. He actually matches up surprisingly well against some of the tier’s more prominent walls and offensive Mons (Heatran, Pex, Zeraora, even Clef) and might be good. Also there’s a chance Megas are coming back still imo and obviously that’s a big boon to rain in general, plus he gets Bulk Up and Liquidation this gen so if Megas return that’ll be insanely good.

Death to ClefPex

Unburden Dragon Dance Terrain HO shenanigans

 

[Steel With It]

Koko and Lele are more borked than the Swedish Chef on crack, so let's put them aside for now and talk about Bulu vs Rillaboom.

Right at the start of the gen, I postulated that Rilla would be the superior option for purely offensive sets thanks to its higher Speed, Knock Off and U-Turn and Bulu would be the superior option for bulkier sets thanks to its Fairy typing, Horn Leech and Synthesis, and... I really don't see a reason why that should've changed. I think it's basically gonna be the Tangrowth vs Amoonguss vs Mega Venusaur situation again, with their ranks possibly going up and down based on meta trends but being equally as viable overall.

What I'm saying is that OU should prepare for a metric fucktonne of Grassy Terrain spam once Koko and Lele are booted upstairs.

 

[OvertoneSeries]

I'm fairly excited for Stakataka, which (allegedly) gets Heat Crash off of 820kg and Body Press off of 211 base defense, along with its already ridiculously strong Gyro Ball. It's got a bit of 4mss with coverage and stealth rock, but very few things want to come in - Lando-T, Hippowdon, Kommo-O and Celesteela seem like the only surefire switchins. It certainly gets to put pressure on a lot of common defoggers ,threatening OHKOs and 2HKOs even with leftovers on Mandibuzz, non-BP Corviknight, Rotom-H, Togekiss, and newcomers like Zapdos, Moltres, Torn-T and the Latis. Its matchups are shakier with Body Press Corv, Fini, and Gliscor (Edit: this guys not coming back), but all of them still have to be afraid of switching in. This isn't even accounting for non-rocker sets like band or trick room, and it seems like it can combine pretty well with wishport clef considering its low HP stat and great bulk. I feel like this pokemon could end up a real OU threat.

Also, if ability capsules are a thing, does that mean that Dracozolt now has access to Sand Rush? Because that sounds pretty insane.

 

[MrHands]

Imo we should just give the council a relaxed ability to quick ban and then just pull a gen 5 "un ban all non-cover legendary ubers" including stuff like Melmetal and Dracovish. Fuck it, let me mix Cinderace and Blaziken with LO Tapu Koko and Scarf Genesect. Retest it all and quickban a half dozen or so in the first week in a wild flurry of OU brokenness. Get the big bans out of the way and get the "retest this obviously broken thing" out of our system so we can focus on less obvious suspects that might come up down the road.

I can't wait to run some ridiculously broken hyper offense early in the meta. 5 LO sweepers + Ditto. It's going to be early BW all over again and I can't wait.

 

[BitBitio]

Imo we should just give the council a relaxed ability to quick ban and then just pull a gen 5 "un ban all non-cover legendary ubers" including stuff like Melmetal and Dracovish. Fuck it, let me mix Cinderace and Blaziken with LO Tapu Koko and Scarf Genesect. Retest it all and quickban a half dozen or so in the first week in a wild flurry of OU brokenness. Get the big bans out of the way and get the "retest this obviously broken thing" out of our system so we can focus on less obvious suspects that might come up down the road.

I can't wait to run some ridiculously broken hyper offense early in the meta. 5 LO sweepers + Ditto. It's going to be early BW all over again and I can't wait.

KOKOLOKOOOOOOOOOOOO

(I apologize)

 

[okispokis]

Just gonna repost this for everyone who didn't see the other thread. Well, I did add a few new things-

Ah, yes the Tapus. Dear Lord, the Tapus.

Let me just start by saying that I know I’m jumping the gun a bit here, but given how long it can take to get the suspect process started, I thought it might be beneficial to start this conversation ASAP. Namely, we need to talk about the Tapus; they are confirmed to be returning with Crown Tundra, and with a few new movepool additions. However, while it has been confirmed via leaks that the guardians will get their respective terrain-enhanced moves. And if that’s the case, Koko, Lele and Bulu (admittedly this guy is a long shot) may all need to be banned.

Let’s start with Bulu: Rillaboom has proven itself to be one of the most defining offensive Pokemon is OU. Now, imagine a Rillaboom who has a secondary STAB and a superior anti-Steel move in Close Combat (as indicated by the TM/TR leaks), and you start to understand just how hard Bulu can smack the tier. And with the new addition of Grassy Glide, it also gets STAB priority in addition to its tremendous Wood Hammer. Band Bulu will probably be making serious headway, while LO sets are also viable with that fourth slot going to SD set up, since Glide, Play Rough and CC are the only 3 attacks it really needs. And yet, Bulu is actually the least problematic of those three guardians, and the only one where I'm not sold it'll be busted. Even without competition from Rillaboom, Bulu is nowehere near as overwhelming as Koko or Lele since Glide isn't as stupid as Rising Voltage or Expanding Force. As for the competition thing, I think Bulu will take on a more offensive role as Grassy Terrain abuser while Rillaboom will fall back into more of a support role due to its access to Knock Off and U-turn.

As for Koko, its new gift of Rising Voltage will be a godsend for its Specs set. Seriously, only a handful of mons that don’t resist Electric can actually afford to eat this (hell, a lot of mons that do resist are still 2HKOed by Voltage). That’s not all they have to worry about; Koko still has an adequate secondary STAB in Dazzling Gleam, still has Volt Switch for anything it doesn't 2HKO and, more importantly, still has Grass Knot, which can cut through most Ground types that seek to block that Voltage. Hippowdon, for instance, is soundly OHKOed by Specs Knot. Fortunately, there are plenty of mons that can counter special Koko- but here’s the thing: Koko can now viably run a physical set thanks to finally getting physical Fairy STAB in Play Rough and also getting the volatile Close Combat (again, as stated by the TM/TR leaks). With the power of Band, STABs + CC can clean up against a lot of mons, and just U-turn out of anything problematic. Or, Koko can always just slap on Brave Bird over U-turn, which soundly 2HKOs Amoonguss, Tangrowth, Bulu and Nidoking.

When you really look at Koko’s “counters”, it’s not as long a list as you’d think since most mons that counter one Choice-variant lose to the other variant. Hippowdon and Swampert blank physical but cannot take a Grass Knot; most of the mons that can weather special Koko fall to its physical coverage. Considering both physical and special, and doing calcs on every semi-relevant mon, I did find two definitive defensive answers: unfortunately, those answers are Cresselia and defensive Nidoqueen (and even Queen can occasionally be 2HKOed by BB), who are probably not going to be OU staples if their history is to be believed. And that’s just two of Koko’s possible sets: I haven’t even touched on the potential CM + 3 attacks set or fast screen setter or anything else it can feasibly run (admittedly it did receive a small nerf since it can no longer use Defog effectively). Koko isn’t broken just because Voltage is strong, but because it has a rather obscene level of versatility now that makes checking it a rather strenuous guessing game. And yet-

Despite what I, personally, will argue, there are arguments to be made that Koko and Bulu aren’t necessarily broken; that does not go for Lele at all. While Koko concerns me due to its versatility, Lele stands out as probably broken due to its sheer power. The power of Specs Expanding Force is absurd, even 2HKOing many mons that resist Psychic. In addition to its far greater power, Lele also differs from the existing Psychic setter Indeedee by virtue of having a secondary STAB that just so happens to be super effective on the one type that is immune to Expanding Force altogether, meaning most Dark types are not good switch-ins. Then again, depending on its coverage, almost nothing switches in on Specs Lele safely; Heatran is a good switch in if Lele doesn’t have Focus Blast. Aegislash and Jirachi can hold up if Lele doesn’t have Shadow Ball. Chansey and Blissey are immoveable if Lele doesn’t have Psyshock. Celesteela and specially defensive Corviknight work if Lele doesn’t carry Thunderbolt. You see the problem, right? Most mons you’d think would stand a chance are bodied by at least one of Lele’s coverage options. Sure, Cresselia and Bronzong can survive two Shadow Balls if they get lucky, and specially defensive Scizor is only 2HKOed by Expanding Force and Focus Blast some of the time, but can you really afford to take that chance? Plus, plenty of the “counters” I’ve listed can potentially be ruined by Trick. From all the research I’ve done, the only mon that is a guaranteed safe switch- in is- specially defensive Escavalier. Which still doesn’t like Trick.

This is what makes Lele so egregious to me: as you can tell by the number of “ifs” in my previous blurb, Specs Lele basically gets to pick and choose what its defensive answers are, which has often been cited as a banworthy trait. What about offense? Well, to highlight how little that means: Specs Dragapult can outspeed and OHKO unboosted Lele with Shadow Ball, but it absolutely cannot switch in- both Lele’s STABs and its own Shadow Ball eviscerate this thing. For an offensive mon to not be broken, it needs to have some form of defensive counterplay- even on paper, Specs Lele has almost none when its full movepool is taken into account. Specs Lele probably can't sweep on its own, but it is more than capable of leaving a massive hole for its teammates to exploit. And that’s just one set; while Specs is the reason I say this thing is banworthy, it can just as easily run Scarf or be a Calm Mind sweeper. Ban this thing ASAP, please.

I guess I might as well mention Fini, briefly. Now, Fini is definitely not broken this gen; if anything, it actually got worse with the gen shift. Ironically, the Defog buff nerfed Fini since now it can’t clear hazards without also clearing its own terrain, aka its status shield. This shield was the main thing Fini did defensively in USUM; now, what we have is basically a defensive mon with no [confirmed] recovery outside Rest (which it can’t even use while its terrain is active) that can’t spread status against most mons and can't contribute to the hazards meta at all without actively hurting itself. I feel this will likely force Fini into a more offensive role, either as a bulky CM sweeper, Taunt stallbreaker or as a decent but not outstanding Specs user. Honestly, I would not be surprised if this thing ends up dipping to UU; sure it can pivot now with Flip Turn, but I don't think that'll be enough to save it. Also: Misty Explosion < other terrain moves; GF is apparently trying to make Misty the terrain equivalent of Hail.

TL;DR

• Lele: broken AF.
• Koko: probably broken; just has too much versatility for its own good.
• Bulu: definitely a strong option, might be broken (although probably not).
• Fini: Maybe it gets Life Dew? ... GF, if any Tapu needed a buff-

 

[musiquepkmn]

Yeah, Kartana is rumored to have Steel Roller and Grassy Glide, too, so wait till low ladder players load up with Terrain Extender Bulu + Banded Boom + Banded Kart + Lucha + Specs Magnezone + Excadrill/Mew/Grimmsnarl/Ditto/whatever the frick you want. You better have Amoongrowth or you better be ready for Bloody Hell

 

[earl]

View attachment 278991
I guess I might as well mention Fini, briefly. Now, Fini is definitely not broken this gen; if anything, it actually got worse with the gen shift. Ironically, the Defog buff nerfed Fini since now it can’t clear hazards without also clearing its own terrain, aka its status shield. This shield was the main thing Fini did defensively in USUM; now, what we have is basically a defensive mon with no [confirmed] recovery outside Rest (which it can’t even use while its terrain is active) that can’t spread status against most mons and can't contribute to the hazards meta at all without actively hurting itself. I feel this will likely force Fini into a more offensive role, either as a bulky CM sweeper, Taunt stallbreaker or as a decent but not outstanding Specs user. Honestly, I would not be surprised if this thing ends up dipping to UU; sure it can pivot now with Flip Turn, but I don't think that'll be enough to save it. Also: Misty Explosion < other terrain moves; GF is apparently trying to make Misty the terrain equivalent of Hail.

Really think you’re overrating the Defog change here. Firstly, when to Defog is entirely in the Fini user’s control, and to successfully status it on the Defog turn you would have to be both slower and predict a Defog. After the Defog, Fini has usually achieved its goal (forcing out a setter like Lando and then clearing hazards), so it will probably be switching out regardless. The rest of the team losing access to Misty Terrain here is a bummer, but I guess it allows the team to run status more freely? It’s nothing major either way. You could even potentially clear the terrain of a Bulu/Rillaboom coming in, lol

On the other hand, Flip Turn now allows Fini to capitalize on predicted switches (say, to Amoonguss or Rillaboom) much better than it could before by netting momentum with slow pivot. A very welcome change to a Pokemon that was usually a momentum sink. Also makes boots even more appealing, even if the lack of recovery blows.

TL; DR situationally losing status immunity is far outweighed by a pivoting move, which alleviates its passivity massively.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

So Moltres and (maybe) Articuno don't completely suck in OU anymore! Of course I'm talking about Boots, and my oh my these were a huge buff for these two, Zapdos as well, but I gotta give mention to the little guys.

Moltres could go for an offensive Boots Pivot set or for sheer power could go for Specs, but Boots seems more likely. Its a solid deterrent to many physical attackers thanks to Flame Body, checks stuff like Volcarona, and bulk that while not great isn't that terrible for an offensive mon. The main problem it'll have to face is Heatran existing since HP Ground doesn't exist. Regardless though there will likely be a good amount of Heatran lures in the Tundra meta. I don't expect it to be top tier but still pretty solid.

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Air Slash / Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn

Articuno takes a more defensive role with recovery, Defog support, and access to neat things like Freeze-Dry. Unfortunately still has the problem that its typing still isn't that good defensively, but it can tank neutral hits decently well. Its kinda reliant on Boots to be effective though but still. Won't make a splash in OU (I think it'll still have a tiny niche though), but will probably do so in RU or UU.

Articuno @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Freeze-Dry
- Heal Bell / U-turn

I took the bulky set from USUM PU and applied Boots to it. As such the EVs are probably bad but still its a test set.

As for the other super bulky Ice-type legend that got stuck in PU and ZU for so long, don't expect Regice to be any good. Still is super slow and passive and lacks utility.

 

[viol and bass]

Moltres could go for an offensive Boots Pivot set or for sheer power could go for Specs, but Boots seems more likely. Its a solid deterrent to many physical attackers thanks to Flame Body, checks stuff like Volcarona, and bulk that while not great isn't that terrible for an offensive mon. The main problem it'll have to face is Heatran existing since HP Ground doesn't exist.

Moltres does get Scorching Sands now, if it can find room for it.

I'm almost wondering if Articuno will be able to pull off a physical set in whatever tier it ends up in now that it gets Triple Axel and Brave Bird. Still pretty weak though.

 

[Vert]

buzzwole will be pretty viable as long as urshifu stays. lele/koko/bulu will be dope with their new moves. latis will be pretty hard to stop now since they got new coverage and pursuit doesn't exist. double grass cores will be absolutely meta. suicune will be wack to play against as always, same with zap esp now that it has hurricane. tornt highkey might end up broken. let's give blaziken a chance this time. nuff said

 

[Mr.Bossaru]

im so excited for this dlc

so many big things will be back

 

[fart goblin]

Here are my garbage opinions that have absolutely no bearing on any future developments of the metagame:

Read my speculative tier list and weep.

Most returning Pokémon that were OU or UUBL last gen aren't changed much from the previous gen, but there are a few outliers I'd like to talk about:


Dragonite benefits HEAVILY (heh) from both Heavy-Duty Boots and a finally not garbage Flying move in Dual Wingbeat. I don't think I need to tell you that being able to get a free Multiscale on switch-in is just great. I'm not sure if it'll become a top tier threat, but it'll certainly be better than last gen.

Kartana is going to be better than it ever was before. The addition of Grassy Glide to its movepool gives it a brutal priority move under GT, making Bulu/Rilla a fantastic partner for it. Not to mention, the metagame as a whole is more vulnerable to Kartana's coverage.

Rising Voltage hits like a nuke. Maybe too much like a nuke. Also, Play Rough.

This on the other hand is absolutely broken. As ThirdStrongestMole stated before, Specs Expanding Force under PT 2HKOs a non SpD-invested Blissey. Blissey.

It gets Grassy Glide. Bye, Rillaboom.

I'm actually going to put effort into this one; Fini got fucked. Mainly because of Defog removing terrain, which is...not helpful. This might actually cause more offensive Fini sets to pop up, like Calm Mind + Taunt. That one's good. Why does Fini get Taunt? It's a nice Pokémon.

How was this thing still OU in Gen 7 for so long? It has no recovery outside of Leech Seed and Rest, is outperformed by Ferro, Corvi and Skarmory as defensive steel mons, and can't even set up hazards. UU would definitely appreciate it being there, as OU is not forgiving.


Volcanion was UU last gen, and for a time was even used in National Dex since HDB helps it a lot. I think the lower power level this gen will help it flourish more in OU, since it's...pretty good, actually.

Also free Zygarde and Genesect. Maybe Blaziken. probably not. But that'd be fun

 

[Magcargo]

I am cautiously optimistic for Galar Slowking. We don't know its hidden ability yet, but based on Galar Slowpoke and Slowbro, I believe its safe to assume it will have Regenerator. We also don't know its stats yet, but I'll assume that Galar Slowking will have a stat spread of 95 / 75 / 100 / 95 / 100 / 30. I'm aware that this is a bit too optimistic, but given its ability and signature move, I believe Galar Slowking will be having a more defensive stat spread that Slowbro and will have its attacking stats swapped with its defensive ones. If this ends up being its stat spread, then Galar Slowking could end up being a nifty pick in the tier and will mostly supercede its brother, Galar Slowbro, outside Quick Draw + Quick Claw and physical sets. 95 / 100 / 100 combined with Regenerator and a Toxic immunity would give Galar Slowking a great amount of longevity. Sadly I don't think Galar Slowking's typing will be as good in DLC2 as it is in the current metagame. Most of the returning threats will hit Galar Slowking for neutral or super effective damage and the Poison / Fire / Psychic coverage will likely not be as good in the new metagame due to to the return of Heatran, Garchomp, and Zygarde.

Galar Slowking's signature move, Eerie Spell, may also be a great asset for and against stall teams. I'm not the biggest expert on stall, but based on the few 700+ turn games I've seen, PP management is critical in these matchups. Depending on how the move works, Eerie Impulses ability to shave off an additional 48 PP (assuming it has 10PP like Shell Side Arm) would be a great asset in these matchups and would help alleviate the pressure off other Pressure stallers like Corviknight and Kyurem. It would also be a great asset against potential roadblocks to a Nasty Plot set. Switch-ins like Heatran and Blissey hate losing PP every time they switch in, especially if they only run one attacking move.

In all likelihood, I doubt most of this will come to fruition. While Regenerator as a hidden ability is a safe bet, Galar Slowking's stats and how Eerie Spell work are still up in the air. Eerie Spell may not even deplete the opponent's PP if they switch, which would make it noticeably less effective. And even if all the stars line up in Galar Slowking's favor, it will still have to deal with the presence of a number of new Pokemon that will give it trouble. Still, it's an interesting mon and I'm really looking forward to eventually trying it out.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Something that surprises me is seeing people not include Landorus-I in the highest tier. Ever since Sheer Force was released for it its been Uber, and for good reason. The multitude of sets it can run and its sheer power and speed tipped it over the edge. There is a BIG difference this generation however, and that is the lack of Pursuit. Tyranitar was Landorus-I's best partner, as it could trap the few things that could take a boosted Earth Power (if my memory serves me correctly, Latias, Celebi, and niche stuff like Slowking, Cresselia and Bronzong). Without Pursuit in the game, maybe this thing stays OU, as there are some "checks" to in the form of Celesteela, Latias, and Tapu Fini. Personally I think this stays Uber.

If we're considering Landorus-I for OU, then maybe its time for Genesect to return. In a similar fashion to Landorus-I, Genesect's best checks were swiftly removed with Arena Trap. Thankfully, Arena Trap has been banned, so its checks have a lot more breathing room. With Heatran returning, along with Zapdos and Moltres being far more consistent thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots, perhaps Genesect won't be as broken as it was before. With the event Genesect no longer being available, its movepool was slightly nerfed also. It's no doubt going to still be a menace, and easily the best scarfer and pivot in the game, but only time will tell. Personally I think this stays Uber.

Lastly, I wanna discuss rain. With Zapdos gaining Hurricane, Tornadus gaining Nasty Plot, and Tapu Koko gaining physical moves, I think rain teams could thrive in this meta. Currently Rain really has no good Electric-types, so Zapdos and Tapu Koko are a welcomed treat, as they are able to gain momentum and take on pesky bulky waters. Zapdos and Tornadus can also easily smash through Grass-types such as Amoonguss and Tangrowth with Hurricane, and can check Rillaboom and Tapu Bulu. We're even seeing the return on some Swift Swim users, such as Kabutops and Omastar, not to mention the toys Rain currently has in the form of Kingdra and Urshifu-R. All in all, I think rain could be a dark horse for this new meta.

 

[Sickist]

Kartana is going to be better than it ever was before. The addition of Grassy Glide to its movepool gives it a brutal priority move under GT, making Bulu/Rilla a fantastic partner for it. Not to mention, the metagame as a whole is more vulnerable to Kartana's coverage.

I'm not quite sure about this. Losing Z moves seems like a huge nerf to Kartana's breaking abilities, as it no longer has Fightinium to break through steel birds, no normalium to break Zapdos (who also doesn't care about rocks now due to boots), as well as boots making a lot of walls harder to chip. While Grassy Glide is an interesting addition, I feel like it's gonna be really hard to fit with what else you want to have. You'll obviously want Sacred Sword, Swords Dance, and Knock Off/Night Slash/filler to hit whatever else Fighting/Grass doesn't, which leaves you either lacking Leaf Blade to run Grassy Glide, or doubling up on Grass STABs, which makes Kartana a lot easier to check. Especially with Latios and Latias receiving huge buffs, I highly doubt they won't be prominent OU pokemon, which makes Kartana even harder to pull off. This is all speculation off what I know, so don't take this as cold hard facts. We'll see when it actually happens.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I can totally see Grassy Surge spam being a thing (get a kill with Rillaboom, Koko comes in to get rid of terrain, you switch into Bulu to get it right back) and Kartana might even be on those teams, but I don't think it'll use Glassy Glide.

 

[Lin]

Sup. As a someone who've been experimenting alot with leaked mons lately, got couple stuff to share.

+

The variety in Grassy Surge users excites me. These two will compete with eachother and fulfill different niches, and I think both will stay in OU.

Rillaboom seems to offer more to offensively oriented teams, as its access to U-turn allows is to pivot freely to teammates like Kartana (Grass spam) and Hawlucha, and Knock Off removes items from walls like Toxapex, Amoonguss, etc.. (From newly added stuff such as Zapdos and Moltres as well) .This enables interesting offensive builds with great potential.

On the other hand, Tapu Bulu is bulkier and has a Fairy-typing so it can specialize on being a good tank while having near same offensive capabilities as Rillaboom. Having Play Rough, Close Combat, and newly added Grassy Glide makes Tapu Bulu threathening enough when boosted by Swords Dance, while it can stay healthy with Synthesis.

Overall, as a balance lover and Rillaboom hater I will probably use Tapu Bulu in most teams I build.


+

Thanks to this pair can function as hazard control options while also be punishing for pivots. Their abilities in Static and Flame Body are excellent to spread status for teammates such as Hex Dragapult, while they can also do that with Discharge and Will-o-Wisp respectively. This enables Dragapult to be flexible with its status spread in Thunder Wave and Will-o-Wisp. Furthermore, their typing is valuable to check Kartana as they both resist its STABs and both these birds have tools to pivot with Volt Switch and U-turn as well, so they can be pretty good.


+ Anything

I feel like Dragapult only gets better with the new additions. It still is the fastest Pokemon ( barring zeraora but it will fall from usage) in the tier barring some potential scarfers we will get, its STAB combination is still unresisted by the entire metagame, has excellent offensive stats overall and has excellent potential to spread status. With its U-turn it is a good pivot to use in balance teams.

&

Garchomp sits in an excellent speed tier, passing the likes of base 100 Pokemon in Volcarona and some rockers in Heatran, Excadrill, and Tyranitar so it will make an excellent rocker especially considering the lack of good ice-types and Hidden Power Ice. A fast rocker with good defenses and tools to punish contact users thanks to its ability, and Toxic to further cripple stuff such as Hippowdon makes this thing super valuable.

Landorus once again will excel at being jack of all trades. It carries 2 crucial immunities, a good ability, a diverse move pool which allows it to do literally whaveter the fuck it wants, and lack of HP ice means it only got better.

These two paired with bulky grasses in and means will fall from usage.



No need to go in details with this one as its pretty straightforward. The lack of Pursuit enables these Pokemon to spam their shit near risk free. They All have respectable offensive stats with mass coverage they gained this generation means a great offensive presence for many teams and all of them learns Trick (especially important given we dont have Megas or Z's to Block Trick) and All of them promotes Tyranitar usage so I am interested to find out how they will perform.