No, because then I'd just beat the game, maybe complete my Pokedex, and be done.
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Do you regret learning about EVs/IVs?
- Thread starter Harms
- Start date
You know what screw all of you heartless pokemon trainers #-.-! I do have that feeling of being sort of sick to my stomach knowing I will ditch my starter in the end unless I soft reset for it which I have done but never completed so I said screw it >.>. It is sad that you will breed other pokemon for your real team however I have never released pokemon that had real sentimental value to me. My first level 100 charizard sucks and I still have it never cloned from fire red / emerald to d/p. However I don't ever regret learning about ivs / evs without them wifi trading on smogon would have never probably existed or have been about the same as serebii trading! (Yikes!). However there is a way to use any one pokemon even a magikarp with straight 0 ivs with a modest nature and only tackle and still probably kill a pokemon, a baton pass team ^^. I've almost been swept by a magikarp luckily I killed it before I died from the endless shuffle stall of pokegod. 's godly baton pass team. The way I see it is, any pokemon is playable and can be used effectively if you really want it to just look at sets created for somewhat forgotten pokemon such as kristy for floatzel ^^.
Do I regret learning about EVs and IVs?
EVs, no. I like the ability to customize, to a degree, the stats that a Pokemon has. I certainly do regret the fact that, because I didn't learn about EVs until fairly recently, almost all of the Pokemon that I have trained were not EV trained, but that's why I considered using the EV-reducing berries.
IVs... maybe a little. As much as I like the idea that Pokemon are different and can have different stats, I do on some level wish that I never knew about them, if only because I realize now that it's not enough to breed for a good nature and then EV train. I wish I could honestly compete without having to worry about either spending hours breeding for IVs, or having to worry that I'll be screwed over since I didn't.
EVs, no. I like the ability to customize, to a degree, the stats that a Pokemon has. I certainly do regret the fact that, because I didn't learn about EVs until fairly recently, almost all of the Pokemon that I have trained were not EV trained, but that's why I considered using the EV-reducing berries.
IVs... maybe a little. As much as I like the idea that Pokemon are different and can have different stats, I do on some level wish that I never knew about them, if only because I realize now that it's not enough to breed for a good nature and then EV train. I wish I could honestly compete without having to worry about either spending hours breeding for IVs, or having to worry that I'll be screwed over since I didn't.
You know, in the DP generation of the anime, Paul is theoretically supposed to be representative of those trainers who take winning way too seriously.
^If you think about it though, even in the ideas set by the anime, if you aren't here to win, what are you doing? Even Ash knows he has to win to be the best, which is his goal.
For the game game being referred back to the TV show, think....it's the way younger fans get into the game. It introduces them to the world, which I'm sure some are dissapointed by the game without even knowing of EVs/IVs.
I still remeber the first episode I saw before I even got my blue version.
As for the topic, I appreciate the feeling of individuality from IV's, EV's, & natures. It gives them a feeling of uniqueness not found in other RPGs.
From a breeders perspective though, IV's, Hidden powers, & nature are a bitch.... more-so the first two. Granted I doubt I would've logged over 500 hours if all I had was the E4 & dex to play through but I'd be alot happier to pop out 5-10 eggs and be done breeding. And I still have that my "Pokemons are the best" but that's because I know they are now...and I only use my favorites, I don't play UBERS & Blissey is non-existant on my cart(Pink whore). I don't always go by the straight-forward movesets either, I like to run either surprising or mechanically cool (technician or serene grace sets, trick room, weather abuse) movesets
I still remeber the first episode I saw before I even got my blue version.
As for the topic, I appreciate the feeling of individuality from IV's, EV's, & natures. It gives them a feeling of uniqueness not found in other RPGs.
From a breeders perspective though, IV's, Hidden powers, & nature are a bitch.... more-so the first two. Granted I doubt I would've logged over 500 hours if all I had was the E4 & dex to play through but I'd be alot happier to pop out 5-10 eggs and be done breeding. And I still have that my "Pokemons are the best" but that's because I know they are now...and I only use my favorites, I don't play UBERS & Blissey is non-existant on my cart(Pink whore). I don't always go by the straight-forward movesets either, I like to run either surprising or mechanically cool (technician or serene grace sets, trick room, weather abuse) movesets
The Anime is so different, the Pokemon can CHANGE there. If you ever followed the ADV series, Haruka's (May's) Torchic is such a wimp in the beginning, at the end of it as a Blaziken, it shows no sign of her previous wimpy nature, not pulling any punches.
In the game however, if you have a Mewtwo with 0/0/0/0/0/0 Lax Nature, that Pokemon is a failure, the Pokemon is set in stone, and there is NO way to change it.
Hence, why it requires different mindsets. No one wants to lose.
In the game however, if you have a Mewtwo with 0/0/0/0/0/0 Lax Nature, that Pokemon is a failure, the Pokemon is set in stone, and there is NO way to change it.
Hence, why it requires different mindsets. No one wants to lose.
I do not regret i've learned about Evs/ivs. Maybe i regret a little.
Evs are just wonderfull points which just adds a little bit more strategy to the game. A little bit? I meant MUCH.
When i was playing Firered, i've encountered a modest mewtwo. I didn't knew about ivs, evs and natures. I was training it to lvl 100. and in ym suprise it had 403 sp atk, which was the highest stat i've ever had on a pokemon. It became my favourite pokemon. I didnt knew about the high SP Atk base stat of mewtwo.
Later when i had Diamond, i've migrated the Mewtwo, because i was so proud at it i just had to have him on Diamond. I've began using it on spp-wifi for like 1 hour. Everyone who battled me was flaming you use ubers and all those shit. I was like ehhh.... After that i've found out about tiers, clauses, evs, natures,ivs. That changed my whole sight on Mewtwo. Modesy was the perfect nature for mewtwo, i just blamed myself i didn't EV trained it.
I still got this Mewtwo, as a token how i was before i knew the Evs and all those things. It still will be my favourite pokemon, not that i like mewtwo in general, just this specific mewtwo.
when i'm playing the game, just like now in platinum which i got via R4, it makes me feel when i got mewtwo. It makes me go back at the time i didn't knew about those ivs and evs, it just let me enjoy the game as im supposed to do. EV's and ivs are just special to upgrade your pokemon and to start playing competitive.
Evs are just wonderfull points which just adds a little bit more strategy to the game. A little bit? I meant MUCH.
When i was playing Firered, i've encountered a modest mewtwo. I didn't knew about ivs, evs and natures. I was training it to lvl 100. and in ym suprise it had 403 sp atk, which was the highest stat i've ever had on a pokemon. It became my favourite pokemon. I didnt knew about the high SP Atk base stat of mewtwo.
Later when i had Diamond, i've migrated the Mewtwo, because i was so proud at it i just had to have him on Diamond. I've began using it on spp-wifi for like 1 hour. Everyone who battled me was flaming you use ubers and all those shit. I was like ehhh.... After that i've found out about tiers, clauses, evs, natures,ivs. That changed my whole sight on Mewtwo. Modesy was the perfect nature for mewtwo, i just blamed myself i didn't EV trained it.
I still got this Mewtwo, as a token how i was before i knew the Evs and all those things. It still will be my favourite pokemon, not that i like mewtwo in general, just this specific mewtwo.
when i'm playing the game, just like now in platinum which i got via R4, it makes me feel when i got mewtwo. It makes me go back at the time i didn't knew about those ivs and evs, it just let me enjoy the game as im supposed to do. EV's and ivs are just special to upgrade your pokemon and to start playing competitive.
Er... Do you know the ivs on this mewtwo? Ivs are set and stone as soon as you catch the pokemon or as soon as you get that egg from the daycare guy.
it's mixed.
do you need them to complete the in-game shyte? no.
do you need them to do well against less knowledgeable opponents? no.
do you need them to use pokemon well against a variety of opponents? no.
but you know.
you know that your chimchar is a weakling compared to what it could be.
which is why you hunt out dittos and practice inbreeding until you have the perfect parents. and then you have your magic 31x6 chimchar and then you find a parent...only to repeat the process.
that part sucks. and using a shoddy server is a cheap way around it.
but when you breed your first poke with 31s or 30s in all the right places, it feels good. because it was persistence more than anything else that got you there.
so, yes, and no. i play for fun more than anything, so it doesn't bother me TOO much to have inferior iv-ed pokemon. i honestly think natures was enough. but, it's still another layer to the game to play with.
do you need them to complete the in-game shyte? no.
do you need them to do well against less knowledgeable opponents? no.
do you need them to use pokemon well against a variety of opponents? no.
but you know.
you know that your chimchar is a weakling compared to what it could be.
which is why you hunt out dittos and practice inbreeding until you have the perfect parents. and then you have your magic 31x6 chimchar and then you find a parent...only to repeat the process.
that part sucks. and using a shoddy server is a cheap way around it.
but when you breed your first poke with 31s or 30s in all the right places, it feels good. because it was persistence more than anything else that got you there.
so, yes, and no. i play for fun more than anything, so it doesn't bother me TOO much to have inferior iv-ed pokemon. i honestly think natures was enough. but, it's still another layer to the game to play with.
The EVs and IVs give it a certain adding to the game, competatif pokémon is real fun to do. I also like the yellow version to play with the bad ass charizard and don't need to care about about all the hidden points on your pokemon. I just started playing yellow again, because i kinda hate breeding and stuff. Now i have around 90 competatif pokemon, for me thats enough. Diamond will disappear is my Game closet till platinum EU comes out.
Yeah, I have some twinges of regret. When I was 11, I had a copy of Pokemon Blue. I still acutely remember how proud I was when my Bulbasaur hit level 7 and learned Leech Seed. I was marvelling over this new mysterious power, trying it on every Pokemon I came across. It didn't matter if Leech Seed was a poor move to use in the situation, it was mine, and I had earned it. I remember the sudden surprise and excitement when my Rattata sudden started to evolve, waiting breathlessly in anticipation to see what new changes would come over it. Pangs of delight erupted within me when I saw its new form, Raticate, and I immediately set out and fought the same battles with it over and over until its PP wells ran dry. I remember jumping up and down on the couch when I encountered and caught Zapdos, and then rushing to the phone to call up a friend and tell him the good news. I remember crying upon finally overcoming the Champion of the Elite Four, the culmination of all our struggles and our long journey together up to this point.
Flash forward six years. I pick up a copy of Leaf Green and slump deeply into my beanbag as I flick the GBA switch. The screen illuminates my face a pale white as the game starts up. As soon as Oak stops jabbering, I check my Bulbasaur's nature. Bashful. Not bad, but not great either. I make my way through Route 1, Viridian, Route 2. I don't catch any Rattatas because I know I can get stronger ones later on. I trudge around Viridian Forest until I find a Pikachu, knowing it's the earliest Electric-type I can get. Once I've caught it, I beeline for the exit. I collect the badges in order, Boulder Badge, Cascade Badge, Thunderbadge. I never let my Vaporeon fight any Zubats or Machops because I don't want him to get Speed or Attack EVs. I catch Moltres; I reset because it has a Naughty nature. Same with Mewtwo. Once I get through the main game, I just trade the Pokemon I need from it into my Sapphire version and build my teams from there. My Venusaur is boxed most of the time in exchange for Snorlax eggs.
Competitive battling does have its own pleasure. But ever since being introduced to competitive battling, I've become so obsessed with numbers and statistics that it's erased all of Pokemon's original pleasures for me, even when I'm not trying to be competitive. I still retain some memories of those kinds of happiness, but at this point I don't feel I can ever go back to them. I still try to create my own strategies. I still try to fit Pokemon I like into a team. But the raging vortex of the competitive battling movement has sucked something irreplacable away from the experience for me, a sense of wonder I'll never get back.
Flash forward six years. I pick up a copy of Leaf Green and slump deeply into my beanbag as I flick the GBA switch. The screen illuminates my face a pale white as the game starts up. As soon as Oak stops jabbering, I check my Bulbasaur's nature. Bashful. Not bad, but not great either. I make my way through Route 1, Viridian, Route 2. I don't catch any Rattatas because I know I can get stronger ones later on. I trudge around Viridian Forest until I find a Pikachu, knowing it's the earliest Electric-type I can get. Once I've caught it, I beeline for the exit. I collect the badges in order, Boulder Badge, Cascade Badge, Thunderbadge. I never let my Vaporeon fight any Zubats or Machops because I don't want him to get Speed or Attack EVs. I catch Moltres; I reset because it has a Naughty nature. Same with Mewtwo. Once I get through the main game, I just trade the Pokemon I need from it into my Sapphire version and build my teams from there. My Venusaur is boxed most of the time in exchange for Snorlax eggs.
Competitive battling does have its own pleasure. But ever since being introduced to competitive battling, I've become so obsessed with numbers and statistics that it's erased all of Pokemon's original pleasures for me, even when I'm not trying to be competitive. I still retain some memories of those kinds of happiness, but at this point I don't feel I can ever go back to them. I still try to create my own strategies. I still try to fit Pokemon I like into a team. But the raging vortex of the competitive battling movement has sucked something irreplacable away from the experience for me, a sense of wonder I'll never get back.
I think it's not that I had more fun before I knew about EVs/IVs, but it was less stressful. I think EVs are fun. Hands Down. IV breeding sucks, there's no question about that. Natures, ingame, aren't really a huge pest, but can be annoying if you don't have a synchronizer. I think that since I learned about competetive battling, there have been two different areas for me, ingame, which has become entirely transformed, has become too different to compare it to competetive, its like, comparing writing an essay on paper, or on Microsoft Word, the composition is the same but the way to go about it is completely different. I do not miss having to switch out every kill to a counter though, EX: having Charizard@Flamethrower/Ember/Fire Blast/Fly =] He shouldnt have any flying move ingame let alone fly.
After I got into competitive battling, I took a lot more notice in IVs/EVs in-game. Now a days I always soft-reset for a decent natured starter. I also, as said before, worry about what type of EVs my Pokemon are getting as I play through the game. However, I don't like the absence of these stats in R/B/Y. They add a lot more complexity to the game.
I don't regret learning about EVs because any player is able to customize a Pokemon's EVs after the berries were added to Emerald. (But they are still tedious and annoying in-game. And because DPP have Wi-Fi, in-game actually matters for anything in the fourth generation.) IVs, on the other hand, are incredibly irritating, and I do regret learning about them, because IV breeding is most hideous aspect of creating competitive Pokemon. And I'm so OCD that I can't even play the in-game portion of the series anymore without going "OH MY GOD THIS TOGEKISS HAS HORRIBLE SPECIAL ATTACK I'M AT SUCH A DISADVANTAGE *FREAK OUT*!!!!"
So, yeah, back in the R/B/Y days, things were fun. So were the G/S/C days when I was uninformed. I could use whatever I wanted to in GSC and then I could hop on the GSC bots and everything would have perfect DVs and max Stat Exp. so I wasn't even aware of those aspects of the game until RS came out and EVs got so much attention. Oh, and say what you will about the Anime, but I do think it's more realistic than the video games. 98% of evolutions in the video games have higher speed than their pre-evolved forms even though they're heavier, taller and bulkier. Things don't work like that in real life. IVs don't exist in the anime, so any Pokemon can become powerful if they work hard, and that's more realistic too.
So, yeah, back in the R/B/Y days, things were fun. So were the G/S/C days when I was uninformed. I could use whatever I wanted to in GSC and then I could hop on the GSC bots and everything would have perfect DVs and max Stat Exp. so I wasn't even aware of those aspects of the game until RS came out and EVs got so much attention. Oh, and say what you will about the Anime, but I do think it's more realistic than the video games. 98% of evolutions in the video games have higher speed than their pre-evolved forms even though they're heavier, taller and bulkier. Things don't work like that in real life. IVs don't exist in the anime, so any Pokemon can become powerful if they work hard, and that's more realistic too.
I still remember the joy I had when I beat Misty with my Charmeleon, or when I finally got that rare Aerodactyl by trading a Chansey that took me two days to catch. I jumped in joy after the trade and just admired Aero's power by using Ancient Power on anything that moves.
But this excitment is no longer there. Nowdays, I can SR for weeks just to get a shiny Azelf, but I'll never be as satisfied because I would know that it will probably have a bad nature and unusable IVs, meaning it will just sit in the trophy box.
I am fine with EVs, it allows me to make teams full of the same poke that fills different roles (specs, scarf, status, sp. wall, sash lead and healing wish Gardy) but I really hate IVs. When I spend countless hours breeding a poke, I am always aware that there will be better ones out there and sometimes it gives me an odd sense of de ja vu that I am spending so much time and not achieveing anything in return.
But this excitment is no longer there. Nowdays, I can SR for weeks just to get a shiny Azelf, but I'll never be as satisfied because I would know that it will probably have a bad nature and unusable IVs, meaning it will just sit in the trophy box.
I am fine with EVs, it allows me to make teams full of the same poke that fills different roles (specs, scarf, status, sp. wall, sash lead and healing wish Gardy) but I really hate IVs. When I spend countless hours breeding a poke, I am always aware that there will be better ones out there and sometimes it gives me an odd sense of de ja vu that I am spending so much time and not achieveing anything in return.
Learning about EVs and IVs definitely ruined the joy I experienced by catching even a run of the mill Pidgey and training it any ol' way I could. Nowadays I wonder how bad the nature works for it, or how I screwed up the EVs during gameplay.
Pokémon isn't the same game I played during my childhood anymore.
Pokémon isn't the same game I played during my childhood anymore.
Nope. Nostalgia isn't enough to keep my playing Pokemon. If it wasn't for EVs/IVs and competitive battling I wouldn't care at all about Pokemon anymore because it would simply be Nintendo rehashing the same basic RPG formula over and over in order to collect as much cash as possible.
The only reason I can really justify purchasing copies of the games these days is by knowing all the little metagame tweaks that have gone into it and understand how those have a profound effect on the game. Otherwise there would be very little difference between D/P and its predecessors. Hell, G/S/C would probably still be the best game single player wise.
The only reason I can really justify purchasing copies of the games these days is by knowing all the little metagame tweaks that have gone into it and understand how those have a profound effect on the game. Otherwise there would be very little difference between D/P and its predecessors. Hell, G/S/C would probably still be the best game single player wise.
I don't regret it in the least. Knowing how IVs and EVs work has given me a greater love for Pokemon, because rather than just being a very simple RPG, Pokemon has become a source of strategy and complex character building, which is something very near and dear to my heart. Pokemon wouldn't occupy my attention nearly as much as it does if I didn't know how complex it is.
As a side note, one thing that has always bothered me about Pokemon is the discrepancy between what the game tells you makes a Pokemon strong, and what actually makes them strong. The game tells you that if you love your Pokemon, it'll be able to defeat any opponent. This is clearly not true. Conversely, the things players actually need to know in order to build a strong Pokemon, like IVs and EVs, aren't even acknowledged by Nintendo.
I think we'd see a lot less of the "Competitive players don't love their Pokemon" and "You can't be having fun if you're trying to win" bullcrap if Nintendo either stopped pretending that attachment to a Pokemon had anything to do with its ability in battle, or changed the game mechanics so that it actually did.
As a side note, one thing that has always bothered me about Pokemon is the discrepancy between what the game tells you makes a Pokemon strong, and what actually makes them strong. The game tells you that if you love your Pokemon, it'll be able to defeat any opponent. This is clearly not true. Conversely, the things players actually need to know in order to build a strong Pokemon, like IVs and EVs, aren't even acknowledged by Nintendo.
I think we'd see a lot less of the "Competitive players don't love their Pokemon" and "You can't be having fun if you're trying to win" bullcrap if Nintendo either stopped pretending that attachment to a Pokemon had anything to do with its ability in battle, or changed the game mechanics so that it actually did.
I really don't get it, guys. Everybody keeps grouping EVs/IVs together when they say that Pokemon is strategic. We all know why EVs are strategic because Pokemon can be bent several different ways depending on their EV allocations. But what exactly is so strategic about IVs? They are nothing but randomly generated numbers. The only strategy that comes from IVs is breeding for all eternity for decent Hidden Powers. While EVs aren't so clear-cut and actually require thought and planning, pretty much everybody wants the highest IVs possible in almost every single stat (except for minor exceptions such as Speed IVs for Gyro Ball/Trick Room, etc.). To me, saying that IVs are strategic is like saying that trying to roll a seven in craps is strategic or something.
"lol Staraptor used Return!"
Seriously though, that's the only situation in which I think "attachment to your pokemon" actually matters. Well, more specifically, a number between 1 and 255 actually matters, which may or may not have anything to do with how "attached to your pokemon" you are.
