@Shurtugal
@Chou Toshio : I've found U-turn to be incredibly useful if using Psychic, since it does a decent chunk to Dark-types. I do agree that its inferior if using Giga Drain, however.
Don't use this
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Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Protect
Sharpedo has terrible defenses, as even resisted attacks are taking a nice chunk of damage. Speed Boost is cool and all, but when you're so weak to priority it doesn't really matter. Breloom easily revenge kills this set, as well as Keldeo, Conkeldurr, and Scizor once it's at low enough health (which isn't hard considering SR + LO recoil really chipping away at Sharpedo's health). This set also doesn't really hit that hard either. I mean base 120 attack is nice, as well as the rain boost, but there are much better options. Sharpedo is also walled pretty hard by Ferrothorn, Toxicroak, Gyarados, and Virizion.
Use this instead
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Feraligatr @ Mystic Water
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch / Crunch / Super Power
Feraligatr is so much better as filling the role if a physical rain sweeper. First off, it has so much more bulk, allowing it to tank even super effective hits like Rotom-W's Volt Switch while it sets up. Secondly, Gator isn't as weak to priority as Sharpedo is, as it doesn't have a Dark typing, which is a blessing in this case. Feraligatr is also hitting so much harder after a Swords Dance, and it doesn't care too much about Speed Boost because Gator has Aqua Jet, killing off nearly anything faster than it once it's at +2 and in Torrent Range. Feraligatr can also get past some of it's usual counters, depending on what it's coverage move is. Ice punch beats Latias, Crunch beats Jellicent, and Super Power beats Ferrothorn.
I actually disagree with this. Sharpedo isn't neccesarily meant to be an all out sweeper like Feraligatr is, it's more of a late game cleaner that mops the floor with the enemy team once Ferrothorn and really bulky Pokemon like Jirachi are taken care of. Sharpedo's fantastic coverage and ability to almost ALWAYS sweep late game gives it a different kind of niche over Gatr that I feel shouldn't really be compared. I feel like Shurtugal's Azumarill comparison was a better fit for the two, since they both have similar roles.
Don't use this
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Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Protect
Sharpedo has terrible defenses, as even resisted attacks are taking a nice chunk of damage. Speed Boost is cool and all, but when you're so weak to priority it doesn't really matter. Breloom easily revenge kills this set, as well as Keldeo, Conkeldurr, and Scizor once it's at low enough health (which isn't hard considering SR + LO recoil really chipping away at Sharpedo's health). This set also doesn't really hit that hard either. I mean base 120 attack is nice, as well as the rain boost, but there are much better options. Sharpedo is also walled pretty hard by Ferrothorn, Toxicroak, Gyarados, and Virizion.
Use this instead
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Feraligatr @ Mystic Water
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch / Crunch / Super Power
Feraligatr is so much better as filling the role if a physical rain sweeper. First off, it has so much more bulk, allowing it to tank even super effective hits like Rotom-W's Volt Switch while it sets up. Secondly, Gator isn't as weak to priority as Sharpedo is, as it doesn't have a Dark typing, which is a blessing in this case. Feraligatr is also hitting so much harder after a Swords Dance, and it doesn't care too much about Speed Boost because Gator has Aqua Jet, killing off nearly anything faster than it once it's at +2 and in Torrent Range. Feraligatr can also get past some of it's usual counters, depending on what it's coverage move is. Ice punch beats Dragonite, Crunch beats Jellicent, and Super Power beats Ferrothorn.
Great idea Gary, I think I've got one.
Don't use this:
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Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD
- Earthquake / Earth Power
- Scald / Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover
Why it's bad: Gastrodon is not a horrible Pokemon and can generally be quite useful to sponge up Water-type attacks (no pun intended). It can be especially useful if your team has a glaring weakness to water (and therefore the very threatening rain teams). Gastrodon is not horrible but there is usually little reason to use it over the following...
Use this:
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Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
- Scald / Surf
- Will-O-Wisp/ Toxic
- Recover
- Taunt
Why it's better: While Gastrodon boasts two immunities (water and electric), unless your team is weak to electric types, there is close to no reason to use it over Jellicent. Jellicent easily forces out Ferrothorn, while Gastrodon has to switch out due to its x4 grass weakness. Jellicent is more suited to be a wall, with access to Toxic, Scald, and Recover just like Gastrodon, but it can take on many utility Pokemon such as the aforementioned Ferrothorn. Jellicent's ability is also more tailored to a defensive Pokemon, as it allows for recovery upon switching in on a Water-type attack. Not to mention, Jellicent boasts a Fighting-type immunity over Gastrodon's Electric- type immunity. Being able to hard-counter Keldeo is HUGE in this meta. Gen V has been said to be the Gen of Fighting-types, and this is the best defensive ghost in the game. It also has access to Will-O-Wisp, being able to neuter Physical attackers more reliably than Scald if needed. On top of all of that, Jellicent can also spin-block.
In short, Water/Ghost typing in addition to similar stats and competitive move-pool to Gastrodon makes it the ideal bulky water type in OU. Not only is Jellicent usually better than Gastrodon, it is a Great pokemon in general, and can really glue some teams together with its outstanding utility and typing.
Oh I completely agree, I'm just saying that usually Jellicent is a better fit for the meta, as Electric types such as Thundurus can be checked more easily (although threatening as all hell), at least as a defensive pokemon. Gastrodon can run some weird bulky-offensive sets that can work well, but when I play against Gastrodon I usually find it extremely easy to deal with and underwhelming as a wall. Gastrodon definitely has its niche, but at least IMO I find that Jellicent is overall a better pokemon and checks more threatening Pokemon, having a wider niche than Gastrodon. I've used both, and I usually end up changing Gastrodon to Jellicent.I wouldn't say Jellicent outclasses Gastrodon at all. Gastrodon is immune to Electric type attacks, allowing it to wall Thundurus-T, Jolteon, and other Electric type moves (Specs Latios spamming Thunder, Starmie's Thunderbolt etc). That along is a good enough reason to use Gastrodon. Gastrodon can also run a pretty legit offensive set, because not only is Gastrodon immune to Water type attacks, it also gets it's special attack boosted to +1
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WITH NO DRIZZLE SUPPORT
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Toxic / Toxic Spikes
- Protect / Substitute
Why it's bad. This set is by no means a terrible set, however without rain support it is an inferior set. Protect and Substitute are only used on Tentacruel with Drizzle support because it has excellent access to Rain Dish recovery. When Tentacruel is not supported by drizzle, both of these moves quickly become inferior, especially if one is using Tentacruel on a sand or hail team. I think for some reason people forget that Tentacruel has a rest of a movepool, as this is the only thing listed on site, Tentacruel has plenty of other toys to use if not supported by Drizzle.
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Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Toxic / Toxic Spikes
- Ice Beam
Why this is better. The appeal of using Ice Beam first off is that you aren't using a pretty much useless move, as Substitute and Protect aren't doing much without Drizzle support. Ice Beam is generally the best option here, hitting incoming Dragons-types hard or offering a relatively decent check to them, in particular Ice Beam is very useful against incoming Latios and Latias. It also scores a ton of damage against Gliscor and Landorus-T, checking the defensive versions nicely. This isn't Tentacruel's only option though. Blizzard is great to use if Tentacruel has hail support. Sludge Bomb is very useful against Breloom if one needs to check it. And Hidden Power Fire is a fine option, especially if using Tentacruel on a sun team. Tentacruel has plenty of those tools to play with Knock Off, Rest, Giga Drain, ect although generally they are inferior to the above options.
Also, on Rain Dish, Liquid Ooze in theory may seem like a better option, but leeching moves aren't common enough, only really found on Ferrothorn, to justify its use over the extra recovery in the opponents rain.
Well since my mind is on Blissey, I might as well do this
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WITH SAND OR HAIL SUPPORT
Chansey @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Heal Bell / Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
Why its bad: This is pretty much a compilation of almost everything that can go wrong with Chansey / Blissey, even though this is a little extreme, I have actually seen people use sets very much like this on the ladder and even in the RMT forum. In order to properly examine its flaws, I need a bulleted list.
- First off, Chansey is being used on a team with passive damage, without leftovers it is having damage done to it every single turn. This passive damage pretty much eliminates the bulk Chansey has over Blissey.
- This Chansey has no defensive investment, meaning it is taking an obnoxious amount of damage from physical attacks. While Chansey is a primarily special wall, it does not like being destroyed by Pursuit or Psyshock. Take for example, how much damage this Chansey takes from Scizor's Pursuit: 252+ Atk Choice Band Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Chansey: 483-569 (68.6 - 80.82%). By just swapping the HP and Defense, Chansey takes half that damage 252+ Atk Choice Band (custom) Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 208-245 (32.39 - 38.16%).
- This Chansey's only recovery is Wish, if Chansey were to be potentially 2HKOed by something, even a weak attack, it literally can not heal it's self in time. Wish Chansey or Blissey needs Protect or Softboiled to make sure it can consistently recover its health.
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Blissey @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Calm Nature
- Softboiled
- Wish / Aromatherapy / Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss / Flamethrower
- Toxic
Why this is better: Blissey is superior in this situation as there is hail or sand support, Blissey does not take passive damage to it thanks to leftovers. Chansey is by no means a bad Pokemon, but if you want to use it, don't use it on you sand or hail team, preferably Chansey enjoys being on a rain or sun team. With at least 252 investment in Defense, Blissey takes Pursuits fine, no longer being almost 1HKOed by them: 252+ Atk Choice Band (custom) Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 284-335 (39.77 - 46.91%). This Blissey has Softboiled, meaning it has consistent recovery, making it a much better wall. If you are using Wish, Protect may be used over Softboiled, but don't run Wish alone.
Side note: This set only has one slot for supporting moves, if you want, you can ditch Toxic or Blissey's attacks to run another support move. If you do this, make sure your team is capable of combating the Pokemon Blissey can no longer wall, like Heatran if you ditch Seismic Toss.
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@ShootinStarmie
Shouldn't that Forretress be using a Relaxed nature, to further decrease its speed for Gyro Ball and not lower its special attack for Volt Switch?
I honestly don't agree with a lot of "this is bad" arguments. Of course electivire and haxorus are outclassed, but pokemon like metagross and jolteon have a lot of uses. Donphan is freaking amazing in rain, sand, sun, you name it. It takes hits really well and has the super useful ice shard. Forretress is slow and generally weak. If you use jolteon, you don't really need a choice scarf user. It can revenge all the threats you struggle with. Here I saved a log of me beating BKC (agreed to be an excellent OU player) playing sloppily but still winning because I used a BU conkeldurr. These aren't bad sets, you guys just don't like them. Also this proves why giga drain celebi is horrible. The only post I agree with here is Magcargo2's...
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oususpecttest9445100
Why it's bad: Jolteon is by no means a bad Pokemon, but ever since Thundurus-T was released in BW2, there is little reason to ever use Jolteon anymore.
Just a note: shouldn't you be using 252def/252spdef calm on blissey?
To help circumvent this, a sort of qc system could be implemented: someone posts one, then 3 people have to approve (or dissaprove) of it with reasoning to have it added to the op?
Max HP for Wishs, it also adds more physical defense in exchange for special defense, idk I guess its not the standard spread but it works fine enough (if I remember correctly the difference in bulk isn't that much). If anyone has a problem with it I can change it.
That is way to slow, I think Gary and maybe a panel of other select users would more effectively decide what goes on the OP or not.
We aren't going to have any sort of QC process here. If gary or an OU mod would like to see a set in the OP, they can put it in themselves.
Ohhh. I was under the impression that the sets were going in the op in general (like a newbie resource). If that isn't the case, there is no need