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Double Battle Metagame.

i don't think the attacks would really matter even with +2 attack shuckle only has 112 attack, not enough to hurt anything
if you read the original post the point of getting all the boosts is for something to psych them up
also shuckle should be the one using sandstorm because you want to get it up first turn and mew wants to transform first turn
 
I just tested a Perish Song Team and it actually worked out pretty well, I will modify it a bit but other than that it's excellent ;)

The Team was Mismagious(Misspelled?)/Wobba/Dugtrio/Fortress(For the Lack of a Better Exploder on me at the time)
If you want a Log of the Battle, just PM me, but I lost since all I did was capture said pokemon, equip them with some moves and test the team out to see if it was worth breeding for :P

After re-reading through the posts that talked about it, the main problem is Taunt when leading with these two (Wobba and the Song User), as it could shut down the song quite quickly and make Wobbufett more predictable.
 
That team of dusknoir, snorlax, gar, and togekiss looks pretty solid. As long as Dusknoir and lax take out two its gg. gar just has to perish and then you can easily stall 3 turns. But... what happens when you perish when both you and your opponent have 2 pokes left? who wins? Also, I would consider scarf on gar so that it automatically gets of the perish song, albeit being useless after using it, will allow for you to get it off even against a faster (than unscarfed gar) sleeper.

EDIT: 300 posts w00t
 
That team of dusknoir, snorlax, gar, and togekiss looks pretty solid. As long as Dusknoir and lax take out two its gg. gar just has to perish and then you can easily stall 3 turns. But... what happens when you perish when both you and your opponent have 2 pokes left? who wins? Also, I would consider scarf on gar so that it automatically gets of the perish song, albeit being useless after using it, will allow for you to get it off even against a faster (than unscarfed gar) sleeper.

EDIT: 300 posts w00t
I ran into that situation in the battle I had :P
Showdown Rules state that you can't use Perish Song to KO your last pokemon, so the Perish Song user basically has that move blocked unless his other moves run out of PP ;)
If on the off chance you do use it, it basically means that you have 3 Turns to KO your Opponent before the match ends in your defeat or tie :P
 
Trying to come up with some more ideas, but most of them seem gimmicky at best;

Looking back at the Kingdra/Toxicroak combo, maybe you could give Toxicroak Me First and make sure he's JUST BARELY faster than Kingdra? Then you get what is basically two STAB Surfs pulled off in one turn. Kingdra certainly isn't going to mind, he has a 4x resistance to Water.

The only problem there is that Kingdra would have to not be under the effect of Rain Dance if he has Swift Swim. Maybe a Sniper version would work better.
 
Me First cannot target your ally in a Double Battle. In fact, it's the only move that targets a single Pokémon that cannot target your ally. It looks like GameFreak anticipated that strategy and decided it was too powerful.
 
Me First cannot target your ally in a Double Battle. In fact, it's the only move that targets a single Pokémon that cannot target your ally. It looks like GameFreak anticipated that strategy and decided it was too powerful.

What? That's lame.

What we need is a list of moves that can hit and target other people in 2v2 battles. Most people have a list of the ones that deal damage, but most people don't bother with the status effect ones. Does anyone know if such a list exists? Smogon doesn't list 2v2 targets, and I tried Bulbapedia, and that was... Well, it was about what I expected from Bulbapedia.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Double_battle
 
OK, I've never tried this, I dunno how it works out:

Alakazam @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 56 SDef
Ability: Inner Focus

GUARD SWAP
PSYCHIC
SHADOW BALL
FOCUS BLAST

Shuckle @ Focus Sash
Nature: -
EVs: -
Ability -

-
-
-
-

This set hinges around Alakazam (which outspeeds just about anything in the game) swapping its defences with its partner Shuckle. The EVs given "should" allow it to survive something that isn't super effective*, Inner Focus protects it from Fake Out, and Alakazam gains an impressive set of defences. Then, the plan is to switch in a fast but fragile sweeper such as Weavile, switch the defences over with Alakazam and crush the opponent*. Or alternatively, switch in something with big HP but little Defence (such as Blissey) and turn it into a near-impenetrable fortress.

*not tested. Please tell me if it works.
 
From the Guard Swap description:
"Swaps Defense and Special Defense boosts and drops with the target. "
So it doesn't work, sorry.
 
Working off my failed Me First idea, how about using Mirror Move? It has the bonus of not having to worry about speed, and the user doesn't even have to be hit with the attack, just targeted by it. Plus, the combination of Protect + Mirror Move can lead to some fun combinations with partners, and the fact that most Mirror Move users are immune to Earthquake doesn't hurt either.

Another similar move is Copycat, which is different in the sense that the pokemon it is mimicing doesn't have to be alive anymore. The only real use I can see for this one is using Explosion, sending out Lucario or Mespirit, and then exploding again right after, but you'd have to make sure no one goes first or tries to protect again.
 
Hey, I got it!

I figured out a way to benefit from Sableye's Stall ability!

Pair him up with a Copycat user. Any move Sableye uses will be Guaranteed to go last, so as long as the Copycat user is really fast, it'll be able to use that move at the start of next turn. He learns some great stuff, like Nasty Plot and Power Gem, that would fit very well with a fast Copycat user like Jynx.
 
Copycat can mimic anything except other mimicking moves, like Mirror Move, as well as any move that was mimicked BY a mimicking move. So if I used Mirror Move and used Earthquake, and you went right after me and used Copycat, it'd fail.

TheMaskedNitpicker did a very nice guide about move restrictions that I checked through for these mimicking moves. It's a shame Mirror Move requires the other pokemon to still exist on the field, otherwise you could have a dual Explosion combo.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/move_restrictions
 
So I was looking at Jumpluff and I noticed Memento. I thought about trying to make a strategy around it, but since I really have no experience with double battles, I decided to just make a single general-purpose pokemon with it, utilizing Drifloon. Yes, drifloon. Just bear with me.

dpmfa425.png


Drifloon @ Focus Sash
Naive
Unburden
252 Spd, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 Atk

Memento
Stockpile
Skill Swap
Swagger

Okay. so basically, the idea is simply to cripple something with a quick memento. Note that with only base 90 HP, and 34 def/44 sp.def, practically any hit will activate the focus sash, shooting you up to 520 speed, where nothing will be able to outspeed you on the first turn that has not already done so. In other words, even rain dance teams that lead with kyogre and, say, kingdra, can outspeed you with the really fast swift swimmer, but then kyogre will be unable to outspeed you once sash and unburden kicks in, even with max speed and a choice scarf. This ensures that you will only have to take one hit and will then be able to memento something (probably before it attacks, if they activated your sash), making it practically useless for attacking unless switched out.

Now, the great part about this is that you can pair it with a swagger/flatter user slower then 'floon, preferably one immune to fake out if possible, and can swagger/flatter the incoming pokemon, giving it a +2 (sp.) attack boost. A persim berry can be used in order to ignore the confusion. I originally came up with this idea when considering starting with a groudon alongside this, swaggering the spot where 'floon was, hitting an incoming leafeon with leaf guard, who can then proceed to swords dance or synthesis as needed and crush stuff with leaf blade and x-scissor or another move for type coverage.

I also had the idea of using this drifloon in tandem with drifblim and a slower-than-drifloon flatter user, who could flatter the spot where drifloon was, hitting drifblim (holding a persim) as he came in to replace 'floon, who, thanks to flatter+unburden, would reach 568 speed and 558 SpAtk, assuming timid 252/252 spd/SpAtk. This may not be the best idea however, seeing as drifloon and drifblim are the exact same type, meaning any attacks targeted at drifloon that would have hit him SE would also hit drifblim SE, but I think it may work. Clearly it needs testing.

This 'floon would probably work better in 6v6 doubles, since you're sacrificing a pokemon completely, but it might work in 4v4.

Well, tell me what you think, about the drifloon in general and the two listed strategies accompanying it. Feel free to test the 'floon by itself or with one of the accompanying strategies if you like it or think it might work, and feel free to come up with your own strategies and post them. Also note that this strategy can be implemented with Drifblim if you don't use the 'floon + 'blim strategy, but because it is fairly sturdy, it is much more likely to sustain a hit without actually activating the sash, meaning rain dance teams and such could be able to outspeed you and kill you in two hits. Although I suppose this would allow the pokemon meant to take its place a free switch-in and could then be swaggered/flattered, preventing any actual damage to the pokemon meant to stay alive. I don't know. Feel free to comment on this as well.

EDIT: Oh, and also, naive makes your defenses almost even at 104 def/111 sp. def (124/129 if using drifblim).

EDIT 2: Note that the moves listed allow it to function as it does in Regigigas + Drifblim strategy a few pages back (which I included below) if you want, making it a dual-purpose lead in a sense. This would be particularly useful in the 6v6 choose 4 style of play, as you could keep regigigas with you and choose to use it only if you thought it would be helpful, and just use this as the memento floon/blim it was designed for if you don't think Regigigas would work.

EDIT 3: A good flatter-er to use with the flatter + floon + blim strategy could perhaps be Nidoking with flatter/EQ/Sucker Punch/filler. flatter for stat boosting, earthquake for stab that doesn't hit 'blim, sucker punch for ghosts attempting to take down blim, and a filler move for coverage. Optionally, you could also use taunt or swagger as the last move. Taunt can prevent trick room and keeps follow me from working more than once, while swagger can allow you to hit almost anything with a confusion+statup move. hit physical attackers with flatter and special attackers with swagger. you could also use stealth rock or toxic spikes for obvious reasons. You could use roar to prevent stat-upping. you could roar follow me pokes, then roar whatever was meant to set up next turn. helping hand is also an option to boost Drifblim's attack power to sky-high levels. In fact, you could give it a lum berry and make your last pokemon a mixed honckrow with insomnia. If you expect something like dark void from smeargle, you switch in honchkrow @ persim to absorb the flatter, which nidoking will get off thanks to the lum berry. honchkrow could be omsething along the lines of sucker punch/heat wave/hp fighting/icy wind or something like that. Again, something else I could use help with.

Here's the Regigigas + Drifblim strategy I mentioned:
I've been working on this duo for a while and it is finally ready. Here is my contribution:

dpmfa486.png

Regigigas@Lum Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Slow Start
EV Spread: 6 Attack . 252 Defense . 252 Special Defense
-Psych Up
-Rock Slide
-Crush Grip
-Drain Punch

Why are all the EVs in the Defense department? They are there to simply keep Regi alive and provide optimal recovery with Drain Punch. It has an attack stat of nearly 400 and a speed of 236 (without Slow Start) - I will explain the moveset later. It is usually my 3rd Pokemon in play, which is paired with:

dpmfa426.png

Drifblim@Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Unburden
EV Spread: 252 HP . 129 Defense . 129 Special Defense
-Stockpile
-Skill Swap
-Swagger
-Baton Pass/Shadow Ball/Rest

I start with Drifblim and Togekiss/Clefable. Drifblim Stockpiles away while the other uses Follow Me and then Protect to hopefully fool opponents who aim for Togekiss/Clefable again. The balloon can usually get in 2+ Stockpiles before its fate-ridden partner takes the plunge. Now, insert Regi here.

Strategy: After a few Stockpiles, Drifblim is more than capable of taking a few hits (as is Regigigas). It immediately Skill Swaps while Regigigas copies its defensive boosts with Psych Up (one of its few stat-boosting moves). Then, Drifblim uses Swagger, (which is on several of my pokemon in case it fails) to activate the magic:

Regigigas receives a 2X boost to Attack and recovers from confusion with its Lum Berry. At the same time, it receives a 2X boost to Speed with its new Unburden ability. From here on, Regigigas destroys any wall with Crush Grip and can recover a great deal of HP on Tyranitars and Weaviles with Drain Punch. Finally, Rock Slide is simply amazing. With a speed stat of 472 and an attack stat of almost 780, not much lives - and if it does, it usually flinches.

From here on, Drifblim can Baton Pass to another Sweeper (if it lives), or Rest up for another partner to use Psych Up if Regigigas dies.

It takes a lot of skill and prediction to set this combo off and it took a lot of time to get here, but the results are beyond extreme. You simply have to see it in action to understand its full potential.
Simply put Memento in place of the last move if you wish to do so.

EDIT 4: If you were to utilize a mixed-strategy team, you might end up with the following:

Drifloon (as seen above)
Nidoking (also as seen above)
Drifblim (sweeper-oriented)
-------------------------------- this is the flatter+drifloon+drifblim strategy seen above
Togekiss (follow me and such)
Regigigas (as seen above)
-------------------------------- this is the completion of the Regigigas+Drifblim (which is replaced with floon here) strategy
Honchkrow (as seen above)
-------------------------------- this is the counter to dark void smeargle, and potentially a potent mixed sweeper with a flatter

EDIT 5: Another good thing about my general-purpose floon is that it would be easy to breed for, as all you care about are a +speed nature, preferably naive, and a high speed iv. In fact, the lower the HP/Def/SpDef, the better. This also makes it easy to test. You could even use a plain floon with memento/unburden/sash to test it if you want. It obviously wouldn't be quite as viable, but it would still be a good indicator. Unfortunately, memento is an egg move, which makes it slightly harder, but that's okay. Also, I just checked, and memento/psych up/stockpile/swagger is a legal moveset. I don't really have the time to test this strategy, so if someone would be willing to test it out for me (perhaps BARON9 since he already has a large portion of the team), I would be extremely grateful.

Wow this post is long. Ironic, since this is entirely theorymon and I have no idea if it makes for an effective strategy or not. :D
 
Deoxys-e @ Leftovers
Timid
252 Speed, 252 HP, 6 Defense
-Cosmic Power
-Recover
-{Insert Attacking move here}/Protect
-Taunt

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Adamant
252 HP, 252 Attack, 6 Defense
-Return
-Drain Punch
-Fire Punch
-Psych Up

The purpose of this would be for Deoxys to Cosmic Power. Regigigas would use ______ move (not Psych Up).
Opponent would switch out, or use attacking moves.
Cosmic Power again, Psych up with Regigigas.
Taunt w/e and Regigigas attacks.
Have fun sweeping? This is all just froma team I saw my friend get whooped by on Wi-Fi, and I added the most probable spreads based on the battle pass stats.
 
I am Gengar, just so you know, Flatter only boosts Special Attack 1 level.

Oops. That's okay, that still leaves drifblim with either 419 SpAtk and 568 Spd or or 459 SpAtk and 518 Spd (again, assuming 252 SpAtk/252 Spd and Timid or Modest respectively). This makes modest look better for the attacking 'blim. Thanks for the notice. Seems kind of strange, since it seems to be the special counterpart of Swagger....
 
That Drifloon strategy will not work. Turn order is calculated at the start of the turn, not during it. In other words, Unburden will never have an effect in the first turn of battle (other than a negative one in making Gyro Ball stronger on it) because the turn order has already been calculated.
 
That Drifloon strategy will not work. Turn order is calculated at the start of the turn, not during it. In other words, Unburden will never have an effect in the first turn of battle (other than a negative one in making Gyro Ball stronger on it) because the turn order has already been calculated.

...

Nothing else to say.
 
I don't know if this could be considered a question that belongs here but, when you're attacking in a double battle is the damage from that attack if it hits both opponents is the damage halved?
 
I don't know if this could be considered a question that belongs here but, when you're attacking in a double battle is the damage from that attack if it hits both opponents is the damage halved?

It does three fourths the damage to each opponent. So Earthquake would do 75 Power to each Pokemon it hits instead of 100.
 
After Toying around with my Perish Trap Team on PBR Wifi and against other excellent double battle players, I have come up with an Idea on how the Team should be built:
Gravetactics-1.jpg


434.png

TheSpirit the ♀ Mismagius
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/ 158 Defense/ 100 Sp. Defense
Note: Everytime I have battled an opponent on Random Wifi or someone I know, Mismagius is always the target of Physical Dark Attacks which is much of a suprise but the reason that I have decided on Bold over Calm. The EV Spread is still meh since I'm not entirely sure on the best way to Maximize her Physical Defenses without leaving her too open to Sp. Attacks.
Moveset:
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Pain Split/ Taunt/ WoW
- Shadow Ball

Perish Song is the Staple of this set and Protect is there to pass the time. Pain Split is there for Pseudo-Recovery since you are most likely keeping your opponents at full health since your only stalling for time. You can have Taunt over it to block TR and the rare Whirlwind/Roar Users but then you are being forced to take repeated hits from your enemy. WoW is also another alternative to take more hits and survive longer and Shadow Ball is there for Stab and Taunt Users you may run into.


202.png

Mourner the ♂ Wobbufett
Nature: Relaxed/Sassy
Item: Chesto Berry
EV Spread: 28 HP / 228 Def / 252 SpD
Note: After reading the Smogon Analysis, I decided to use their set since the idea is for Nut to take as many hits as possible in Two Turns before switching it out
Moveset:
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
- Safeguard
- Encore

Not much to say here except to say here except that you can always run Charm over wither Counter or Mirror Coat to help Mismagius take physical hits ;)

51.png

Gravedgr the Dugtrio
Nature: Bold
Item: Focus Sash/ Enigma or Sitrus Berry
EV Spread: 252 HP/ 252 Speed/ 6 Def
Note: I'm not entirely sure EV Spread suits Dugtrio best to take hits while still retaining a high speed to pull Dig and Subs before the Opponent.
Moveset:
- Protect/ Substitute
- Dig
- Sucker Punch/ Endure
- Earthquake/ Rest

Dugtrio is by no means the most defensive pokemon in this metagame but being the only other pokemon besides it's pre-evo and Trapinch that can get Arena Trap. The First Moveset is basically intended for you to run Dig, Protect, and Run while the second is more about withstanding hits until the Three Turns are up.

94.png

Death the Gengar
Nature: Naive/Jolly
Item: Zoom Lense
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe or 4 HP/ 252 Attack / 252 Speed
Moveset:
-Explosion
-Perish Song
-Hypnosis
-Shadow Ball / Taunt

Naive over Hasty since you are mostly running into Physical Priority Attacks and you want that Song out as fast as possible if Mismagius dies before your opponents Time is out. In most scenerios Gengar will be last, so Explosion can be used to finish off the last Two Opponents while Hyponsis over Protect works wonders unless your opponent has Safeguard on or has the ability Insomia. The Last Move Slot is based on preferance, whether you want to have another option to attack with Gengars higher SA or too completely stop your opponents team from setting up.

The Team has worked great and everytime thatmine loses it's only because they aren't ev trained with enough HP EVs to take attacks and CHs :P
Increadibly fun to use, and it matches with the theme of the Courtyard Colosseum in PBR ;)
 
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