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Double Battle Metagame.

I'm wondering...What would define a combination as "too slow"? Because I have this idea that I like and think is somewhat nifty, but I have doubts that it will actually end up doing anything, you know, useful.

Smeargle w/ Choice Scarf
- Dark Void
- Skill Swap
- Flatter
- Filler

Alakazam w/ Item (probably Lum Berry or something)
- Trick
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Special Attack/Filler

Smeargle goes first, hopefully, and drops Dark Void while you have Alakazam use Trick to steal his Choice Scarf. Next turn, have Smeargle use Skill Swap while you Trick the Choice Scarf to some other Pokemon and pray that it doesn't already have a Choice Item. Then, have Smeargle use Flatter on your Alakazam while it crushes things with Special Attacks. I'd probably put Protect or something similar in the Filler slot for Smeargle (Safeguard would be a somewhat amusing option against enemy Dark Voiding).

Of course, that plan is a completely theorymon-based plan, but I would like to know what people think of it.
 
While it's original and creative, keep in mind that you'll be fighting with half a team the entire time. If the opponents don't get slept for whatever reason (Lum/Choice Scarf/Magic Coat/Insomnia/Fake Out/etc) then by the time you've gotten to the "crushes things" part of your strategy you'll have taken at least 6 hits by the enemy team. Not just that, but if you DO sleep them you'll still take at least 2 hits because the opponent gets a chance to switch AND another to attack.

Doubles is way too fast to dilly-dally.
 
Shine said:
While it's original and creative, keep in mind that you'll be fighting with half a team the entire time. If the opponents don't get slept for whatever reason (Lum/Choice Scarf/Magic Coat/Insomnia/Fake Out/etc) then by the time you've gotten to the "crushes things" part of your strategy you'll have taken at least 6 hits by the enemy team. Not just that, but if you DO sleep them you'll still take at least 2 hits because the opponent gets a chance to switch AND another to attack.

Doubles is way too fast to dilly-dally.
Click to expand...

Well, assuming the Dark Void hits before anything else, the opponent would probably not do anything the turn in which Skill Swap goes off and Trick traps one Pokemon with a Choice Scarf. But yeah, it's likely that Alakazam will be taking two hits to the face.

I had another idea that involved Trick Room and a Trapinch, but I'm still not quite sure what the best way to go about activating said combination would be. It seems prone to failure.

Back to the drawing board, I suppose.
 
What's the point of Trapinch? There are bulkier, more offensive Pokemon than Trapinch. In 2v2 4 Pokemon Doubles, you already have half their team out, anyway. After you kill 1 Pokemon, they can't switch both already (and don't forget that switching itself is rare... Just Exploding as a clearance sacrifice is more common in high-level play, I've found).
 
Obi said:
What's the point of Trapinch? There are bulkier, more offensive Pokemon than Trapinch. In 2v2 4 Pokemon Doubles, you already have half their team out, anyway. After you kill 1 Pokemon, they can't switch both already (and don't forget that switching itself is rare... Just Exploding as a clearance sacrifice is more common in high-level play, I've found).
Click to expand...

Mostly because it's Trapinch.

I'm one of those people who likes doing really weird things. Since Trapinch is the slowest Pokemon that's not Shuckle, I figured that if I was using Trick Room, Trapinch would probably be a good bet. Forcing them to wait out their sleep while Trapinch starts hitting things was also somewhat appreciated.

Clearly, I'm not very good at this whole "Double Battles Competitively" thing.
 
Bronzong: @ Leftovers

Trick Room
Explosion
Hypnosis
SR

Trapinch: @ Life Orb

EQ
Rock Slide
Protect
Crunch

Protect the 1st turn as, Bronzong uses Trick Room,

2nd Turn- Then have Bronzong use Hypnosis (Perferably on their Flying/Levtiate pokemon, so it switches out and sends in an awake pokemon for explosion) while Trapinch uses EQ.

3rd - Have Bronzong use Explosion while Trapinch uses Protect

4th Turn- Send in CB Carnivine with Power Whip (b/c it is slow) while Trapinch uses EQ again.

5th Turn- Keep up the damage for the last round...


Carnivine is the slowest Physical/Special Sweeper that is either Flying/Levitate (immune t Trapinch EQ) with at least 100 base Atk/Sp Atk, *46 Base Speed.* (Unless you wanna give 1 Macho Brace (like Gengar)).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still: for Ubers:

Manaphy

Skill Swap
Hydro Pump
Grass Knot
Ice Beam

Kyogre

Hydro Pump
Calm Mind
Rest
Thunder


Manaphy lets Kyogre abuse auto-rest... I think this is self-explanatory. Also, Manaphy's Ice beam/Knot covers what Kyogre doesn't (ie: Quagsire/Lanturns that switch in).
 
Shine said:
Can Mirror Move target your teammate in Doubles? I had a Me First + Explosion team ruined by a similar limit.
Click to expand...

Define 'target'. The short answer is that unless Explosion fails because of a Damp Pokémon on the field, it is impossible for Mirror Move to replicate Explosion.
 
i was thinking about a way to make smeargle faster and this strategy seemed to be the best way. this is quite similar to tgva's set.


Smeargle: @ choice scarf

Dark void
lock on
sheercold
?

This smeargle's only real job is to dark void and with the boost from choice scarf it should outrun all non-scarfed pokemon. As far as the third move goes i was thinking either Fire blast to kill forry who has sturdy (so ditto can kill forry)or taunt to taunt sleep talkers.

Ditto: @ ?

Transform
-
-
-

this things only job is to transform into smeargle. once it transforms into smeargle it has access to lock on and sheercold and of course any other move smeargle has.

I know that this combo gets screwed over by a multitude of things (like if dark void misses) but i am pretty new to competitive battling and i just thought i'd put it out there.
 
sheer cold and lock on are pointeless with a scarf, although having the scarf to dark void switch out, bring back in then trick/switcharoo would work.
or just use scope lens so dark void damned near never misses.
 
Suicune and Breloom

Hello,
New to double battles, but I just caught a really good Suicune IVs: 30 18 26 30 26 26 (sadly Careful). But defenses are solid so I can put some EVs in SpA, I was thinking some thing along the lines of:

Suicune:
Tailwind
Ice Beam
Surf
?

Breloom:
Substitute
Focus Punch
Spore
?

Haven't thought it out completely but Breloom Subs while Suicune tailwinds. Could use some advice though.

Thanks in advance,
Anthony
 
phalanx i was thinking that if ditto transforms into smeargle it doesn't have to be locked into one move so in thery smeargle would be locked into dark void but ditto could use any of its move

Just a thought not sure though :)
 
You are correct. I love the idea, my only concern is that people will be using Lum + Chesto (especially on their leads) if Sleep Clause is not present (and often if it is). Then they'll easily KO your two frail Pokemon.
 
tgva8889 said:
Mostly because it's Trapinch.

I'm one of those people who likes doing really weird things. Since Trapinch is the slowest Pokemon that's not Shuckle, I figured that if I was using Trick Room, Trapinch would probably be a good bet. Forcing them to wait out their sleep while Trapinch starts hitting things was also somewhat appreciated.

Clearly, I'm not very good at this whole "Double Battles Competitively" thing.
Click to expand...

You need something to stop opponents from killing Bronzong before it gets Trick Room off. When the opponent sees two very slow pokemon, one of which is a very popular TR lead, they are going to assume to Taunt, Fake Out, Sleep (Always at least carry a lum berry), or kill it with fire (Ground-type Trapinch is a good indication that Bronzong has Levitate and not Heatproof). Remember that you don't just have to have extremely slow pokemon on your team, moderately slow pokemon with a speed negative nature and/or a macho brace will still work well in Trick Room conditions.

If people are planning to use TR teams for the Tournament, keep in mind that it is a very popular strategy and many other people will be using them. Perhaps consider how to shut them down, and have pokemon that are slightly faster than them if you are trying a similarly themed team.

Explosion is very predictable and if you do it when your pokemon is weakened, expect to be met with two Protect's. However, if used for nothing else than an efficient switch, nothing is lost.
 
Infernape-Leftovers
Naive-24 Atk / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
-Fake Out
-Flamethrower
-Close Combat
-Hp Ice

Ambipom
Jolly-4 Hp/ 252 Attack/ 252 Spe
-Fake Out
-Double Hit
-Filler
-Filler

This cripples the TR team
You double hit smergal with double hit which gets rid of foucus sash, and you can flamethrower bronzong. they both have Fake out to give you some time to figure if you need to switch while getting some damage in
 
How about Taunt on Ambipom as well? This gets rid of Trick Room + Fake out users, since you can stop the slower opponent from using the latter and Taunt to leave Bronzong crippled. This sets Infernape's Flamethrower won't OHKO standard TR Bronzong anyway.
 
Does anyone know how much min. base speed you need to have to be faster than Choice Scarf Smeargle? I'm still thinking about teams, and I think I'm going to go with something that uses other Pokemon that I just generally like.
 
Let's not turn this into "2v2 Simple Question", and keep it related to strategies only.

You need to be Electrode and faster to beat Scarf Smeargle. Ninjask beats it even if Ninjask is without a nature.
 
What do you guys think about bringing back the Imprison strategy that was successful and popular for JAA. Dusknoir>Dusclops, and you can use Azelf as a weaker Mewtwo. Azelf can taunt, set up screens, explode, and hit with Fire blast, etc(Making him similar to the Mewtwo that usually was paired with Dusknoir), and Dusknoir is very bulky. The main selling point is that if Dusknoir holds a Lum Berry/Chesto Berry, he can completely stop TR teams. He can Imprison Protect/Trick Room, is immune to Fake Out, can cure sleep from Smeargle, and Follow me doesn't stop Imprison. He can also imprison Earthquake, hit with a priority move in Shadow Sneak, and has access to Will-o-Wisp and the elemental Punches. I think this could definitely be an extremely viable team for this tournament with the power from Explosion that won't be blocked unless the Pokemon has Detect/Endure/Focus Sash, and the extreme popularity of Trick Room. What do you guys think?
 
Trick Room/Imprison/Protect/[insert move here] Dusknoir anyone?

Basically, TR isn't meant to be used. It's there to simply mess things up when Imprisoned. Assuming the opponent doesn't flinch Dusknoir (FLING!), Trick Room teams can be troubled by this, especially since TR goes last.

Speaking of Fling, in a TR Endeavor Smeargle Team, Flinging Dusknoir is an underrated weapon imo. Once you set up the TR, you can Dusknoir Fling a King's Rock at someone while Smeargle Spores (Or Voids the other/both). The King's Rock will flinch the opponent, so with Dusknoir's speed in TR, it acts as a pseudo Fake Out, without priority, but it can hit Ghosts.
 
I've been working on this duo for a while and it is finally ready. Here is my contribution:

dpmfa486.png

Regigigas@Lum Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Slow Start
EV Spread: 6 Attack . 252 Defense . 252 Special Defense
-Psych Up
-Rock Slide
-Crush Grip
-Drain Punch

Why are all the EVs in the Defense department? They are there to simply keep Regi alive and provide optimal recovery with Drain Punch. It has an attack stat of nearly 400 and a speed of 236 (without Slow Start) - I will explain the moveset later. It is usually my 3rd Pokemon in play, which is paired with:

dpmfa426.png

Drifblim@Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Unburden
EV Spread: 252 HP . 129 Defense . 129 Special Defense
-Stockpile
-Skill Swap
-Swagger
-Baton Pass/Shadow Ball/Rest

I start with Drifblim and Togekiss/Clefable. Drifblim Stockpiles away while the other uses Follow Me and then Protect to hopefully fool opponents who aim for Togekiss/Clefable again. The balloon can usually get in 2+ Stockpiles before its fate-ridden partner takes the plunge. Now, insert Regi here.

Strategy: After a few Stockpiles, Drifblim is more than capable of taking a few hits (as is Regigigas). It immediately Skill Swaps while Regigigas copies its defensive boosts with Psych Up (one of its few stat-boosting moves). Then, Drifblim uses Swagger, (which is on several of my pokemon in case it fails) to activate the magic:

Regigigas receives a 2X boost to Attack and recovers from confusion with its Lum Berry. At the same time, it receives a 2X boost to Speed with its new Unburden ability. From here on, Regigigas destroys any wall with Crush Grip and can recover a great deal of HP on Tyranitars and Weaviles with Drain Punch. Finally, Rock Slide is simply amazing. With a speed stat of 472 and an attack stat of almost 780, not much lives - and if it does, it usually flinches.

From here on, Drifblim can Baton Pass to another Sweeper (if it lives), or Rest up for another partner to use Psych Up if Regigigas dies.

It takes a lot of skill and prediction to set this combo off and it took a lot of time to get here, but the results are beyond extreme. You simply have to see it in action to understand its full potential.
 
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