Metagame Doubles UU

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
duuarthalf.png

Big thanks to Jolly Togekiss ^-^ for this fantastic artwork!
What is Doubles UU?
Doubles UU, sometimes abbreviated as DUU or just UU in the context of Doubles, is exactly what it sounds like. It's a Doubles metagame in which the pokemon in Doubles OU by usage are banned.

Where can I play it?
You can find a game on the showdown ladder, by selecting Doubles UU under Sw/Sh Doubles formats. Alternatively, you can ask for a game in the doubles room on showdown, where you can battle more experienced players.

How not to play
All combinations of Malamar and Eldegoss are bad. They suck. Don't post about them.

The opposing Barraskewda used Liquidation!
It's super effective! (The opposing Coalossal lost 100% of its health!)
The opposing Barraskewda lost some of its HP!
The opposing Coalossal fainted!


Resources: (Coming soon)
Current banlist:
MOVES:
Beat Up
POKEMON: Blastoise, Chandelure, Charizard, Conkeldurr, Corviknight, Darmanitan-Galar, Dracovish, Dragapult, Duraludon, Dusclops, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Gastrodon, Gothitelle, Grimmsnarl, Hatterne, Incineroar, Indeedee-F, Kommo-o, Kyurem, Ludicolo, Melmetal, Mew, Milotic, Necrozma, Pelipper, Primarina, Rhyperior, Rotom-Wash, Sylveon, Terrakion, Togekiss, Torkoal, Tyranitar, Whimsicott, Zeraora
 
Last edited:

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon


n10siT Terrakion Aegislash balance

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Protect

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Protect

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

Krookodile @ Chople Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 192 HP / 20 Atk / 88 SpD / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Horsepower
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Protect

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
- King's Shield

Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 20 SpA / 164 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Rage Powder
- Sleep Powder
- Protect




Memoric Ribombee Heliolisk offense

1000 DOVES (Ribombee) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Pollen Puff
- Speed Swap
- Tailwind

RAIN ON ME (Pincurchin) @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Rising Voltage
- Toxic Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

911 (Heliolisk) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rising Voltage
- Hyper Voice
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse

ALICE (Ninetales) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Protect

SINE FROM ABOVE (Hydreigon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Tailwind
- Protect

BABYLON (Cofagrigus) @ Electric Seed
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 236 HP / 80 Def / 192 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Trick Room
- Pain Split
 
Last edited:

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
VR council:

n10sit
Lord Death Man
Demantoid
talkingtree
Yuichi
Memoric

Click on a Pokemon's name to see sample sets and EV spreads

See this post for more information

[SET NAME]
Fast attacker

[SET]
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Protect

[OTHER EVS]

[REPLACEMENT ITEMS]
Lum Berry
Sitrus Berry

[REPLACEMENT MOVES]
Close Combat - None
Rock Slide - None
Substitute - Stomping Tantrum, Iron Head, Quick Attack, Taunt, Stone Edge
Protect - None

[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
Keldeo
Hitmontop
Mamoswine
Reuniclus
Gengar
Alcremie
Gothorita
Mimikyu
Jellicent
Bronzong
Aegislash
Ninetales-Alola
Cofagrigus
Tangela

[GOOD TEAMMATES]
Krookodile
Gyarados
Mimikyu
Noivern
Gengar
Bisharp
Grimmsnarl
Hydreigon
Mandibuzz
Weavile
Ribombee
Rotom-Mow
Aegislash
Talonflame



Tier 1 (Terraks on raks on raks):
Pokemon that dominate a large portion of the metagame. They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.
Terrakion

Tier 2:
Pokemon that are generally strong and can easily be placed on a variety of teams, but don't have the same level of prowess as the threats in Tier 1.
Aegislash
Arcanine
Hydreigon
Keldeo
Krookodile
Rotom-Wash
Wartortle

Tier 3:
Pokemon that are generally strong, but can be dead weight in some matchups, don't have great matchups vs a lot of Tier 1 and 2, or are only particularly useful for checking a certain team style.
Chansey
Inteleon
Jellicent
Mamoswine
Mimikyu
Noivern
Ribombee
Tangela
Tsareena

Tier 4:
Pokemon which have broad applications on a variety of teams but are simply less effective than the Pokemon in the higher tiers. This also includes Pokemon which, while good, only fit on a specific team style or require heavy support but are usually better than Pokemon not on this list.
Bisharp
Gengar
Gothorita
Grimmsnarl
Gyarados
Heliolisk
Ninetales
Ninetales-Alola
Pincurchin
Roserade
Rotom-Heat
Rotom-Mow
Scrafty
Snorlax
Talonflame
Torracat
Weavile

Tier 5:
Pokemon that can only serve a specific role not needed by most teams, but can still perform excellently.
Alcremie
Araquanid
Braviary
Bronzong
Clefairy
Cofagrigus
Darmanitan
Gigalith
Haxorus
Hitmontop
Mandibuzz
Oranguru
Reuniclus
Scyther
Toxitricity
Vileplume
 
Last edited:

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Welcome to Gen 8 DUU! I have some preliminary thoughts I'd like to share. Be sure to watch out for the SM DUU circuit playoffs coming on January 5th!

I think Trick Room looks to be the far and away best archetype early on, mostly because a lot of the fast things suck, and I see the format transitioning from hard room to a more semi room format as we go on. I think the early contenders for best mon are Mew, Kommo-o, Bronzong, and possibly polteageist. Other Pokemon that I see being very good are Tsareena, Greedent, Rotom-Heat, and Gengar. Please do not use Butterfree. The role that support Pokemon will play really interests me, I am very interested in the potential viability of things like Sableye. I hope you all enjoy playing SwSh DUU.

A side note: I will post my plans for tournaments and things soon once I figure that out, but I really want to avoid the long and arduous process that was the SM circuit this gen. I think I went too big on the tournament side of things trying to grow DUU, but the best way to grow this format is to grow DOU, so I think that is where I would like to shift my focus right now. Don't worry, there will certainly be DUU tours (possibly still cash prized ones), but do not expect the same as the previous years' circuit.
 

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
meta is SUPER new so I could be dead wrong about all of these but there's a few mons I really like

Alcremie. Acid Armor + Calm Mind sets are incredibly annoying in a tier with mediocre phasing, like one decent haze user, and no good toxic users. It has the bulk to set up and spam Dazzling Gleam vs a large number of teams and doesn't really require much support. It's also one of the few actually good Kommo-O answers out there.

Kommo-O. This thing is so dumb. Excellent bulk, two good abilities, two good ways to set up. Dragon Dance is ridiculously underrated considering how easily it can opt to completely drop dragon stab and instead run coverage + a good fighting move. It has extremely limited checks and a way around almost all of them.

Rillaboom. I find myself using this a lot, AV sets are extremely bulky pivots with a decent stab move that functions as speed control, utility in the now rare Knock Off, and Fake Out for when you want to do that.

Noivern. New speed control mechanics are broken and Noivern is the fastest tailwind setter that isn't Cottenee. It has pretty good coverage - Draco Meteor is always fantastic, Flying is easily one fo the most spammable types, and Flamethrower could hit the stray steel if they existed.

Mew. I think Mew's just ok bulk/power has a much bigger opportunity to shine in a meta like this; fast wisp is extremely useful, there's a lot of cool things to use transform on, snarl/icy wind/breaking swipe are all actually usable in a tier where Braviary doesn't dominate, etc. Generally good mon.
 
Here are my early impressions of Gen 8 DUU (I'm adding more as I encounter and use more mons):
The tier is severely lacking in speed control. As Deathman said, Noivern is the only viable tailwind setter at the moment, barring maybe Mandibuzz. I think that sticky web (on Araquanid) could be the speed control of choice for a lot of teams , but to be honest, with all the trick room flying around, it may not see much use.
Trick room is extremely popular, with setters including Runerigus (which is overrated), Aromatisse, Trevenant, Malamar, and Indeedee.
Runerigus is overrated, and is lacking in both bulk and power. Do not use it.
Aromatisse is an attractive option for trick room teams due to Aroma Veil and provides excellent bulk and decent offensive power.
Trevenant is a decent option for setting and abusing trick room due to its good sustain and bulk but is highly vulnerable to burns due to its reliance on Horn Leech. Requires proper cleric support or a burn absorbing mon.
Noivern sees use as a tailwind setter and generally annoying fast mon.
Cinderace is, in my opinion, overrated, but its offensive potential cannot be underestimated. Its powerful U-turns crush the tier's Psychic and Grass types, and its Pyro Balls destroy most neutral hits. Nevertheless, it struggles to find room to enter the field due to its nonexistent bulk. It must watch out for Golidopod's Aqua Jet, Barraskewda's Liquidation, and any of the tier's numerous Rock Slides.
Hitmontop seems to me to be the best intimidator right now, but in a tier as slow and bulky as this one, I am doubting its usefulness.
Goodra seems to be doing its best to imitate an immovable object.
Mew is very flexible. It can run a set with rocks and spikes, or a swords dance set, or a fast support set with will o wisp. If there is a hole on your team, chances are, Mew can fill it.
Aurora veil Vanilluxe could be promising.
Mudsdale is powerful but relies on stamina boosts to boost its body press damage, and with the abundance of ghost types in the tier, struggles a bit. In addition, it can only come in safely late game after its checks have been dealt with, and Milotic especially crushes it.
Milotic has proven itself to be an incredibly hard to break wall, and by far the best haze user in the tier. Marvel Scale is preferred over Competitive, due to there being literally one moderately viable Intimidator in the tier and it not seeing much use.
I like Umbreon as a support mon with snarl, helping hand, and foul play. However, there is an abundance of strong fighting type moves in the tier, notably Machamp's Dynamic Punch, Mew and Malamar's Superpower, Cinderace's High Jump Kick, and Reuniclus's Focus Blast. Might be better once the meta settles down.
Malamar is a decent trick room attacker, but is crushed by the various powerful U-turns in the tier, so it requires a thorough knowledge of the tier to play well.
Clefable is also popular but seems rather mediocre at the moment, at least until setup becomes popular.
Araquanid seems at the moment to be a highly potent dynamax user, as it is one of the hardest hitters in the tier and is immune to Mew's will o wisp. In addition, it is the best sticky web setter in the tier.
Golisopod shows potential as a hit and run mon and its aqua jets hit a significant portion of the metagame very hard, but it requires good predictions and proper team support.
Hydreigon will probably fill the same role it did last generation; that of an intermediate, powerful attacker. Eject pack seems fine for now but I think that life orb or specs will prove to be better. It finds itself unable to nuke many prominent threats without a boosting item, but it can freely spam Draco Meteor thanks to the lack of viable fairy types in the tier.
Silvally has proved to be fairly powerful with a simple swords dance set. I personally run Silvally-normal with a lum berry, multi-attack, parting shot, and swords dance. However, it has a bad tendency to get outsped and ohko'd. After a swords dance, however, it becomes a premier threat.
The combo of Indeedee and Hawlucha is quite scary, as Hawlucha outspeeds every single mon in the tier with the unburden boost and Indeedee hits surprisingly hard with its life orb psychics.
Weezing-Galar is a decent choice due to Misty Surge negating the abundance of status in the tier. It does struggle to deal meaningful damage though, and its lacking bulk warrants extreme caution when getting it in.
Cursola is an extremely scary Trick Room sweeper, but its terrible physical bulk makes it vulnerable to every remotely strong physical move in the tier, especially Araquanid's Liquidation.
Barraskewda can outspeed the entire tier, even max speed Cinderace, with an adamant nature, and therefore has a good niche as a powerful choice banded or life orb attacker.
Tsareena is quite powerful but has a tendency to simply lose to faster threats, especially Cinderace. If played carefully, it can be a bulky monster. I prefer to run it with a choice scarf to patch up its speed issue.
Reuniclus finds a strong niche as a powerful special attacker, especially with the lack of strong special walls and dark types within the tier. It needs to run Colbur Berry so as to not get ohko'd by any strong Knock Off. It needs to set up substitutes on switches whenever possible, because while it threatens nearly the entire tier offensively, it struggles against many of the powerful Ghost-type mons, notable Gengar and Calm Mind variants of Trevenant.
Greedent will be very easy to deal with for any experienced player, but it nevertheless warrants caution when used alongside a redirector, due to its potential to sweep after a Belly Drum under Trick Room.
Togetic is the most popular redirector at the moment due to its bulk with eviolite. However, its bulk is quite middling and its damage output is lacking, so it will likely end up being a single use trick.
 
Last edited:
I think at the moment Gallade is a bit of a stealth threat. It's the only justified user with priority in a tier with Mew which can transform into it and copy its boosts while its move pool gives a good variety of D-max moves. While it's not nearly anywhere as good as Arcanine and Lucario are at this same job in DOU, but it can still run through a large amount of the opponent's team before it faints.

Mew is a literally amazing mon. The ability to Imprison Trick Room is useful in a tier where Trick Room is common speed control and Transform is an amazing move- in conjunction with Imprison it can shut down an opposing Pokemon entirely or you can copy your own sweeper like Kommo-o allowing yourself two Kommo-o's and the freedom to Dynamax one while preserving your ability to spam a powerful STAB spread move.

Kommo-o finds numerous set up opportunities and can then just mow down opposing enemies. Not really much to say there but fear the dragon.

Posting about these three in particular because I think they make a surprisingly effective offensive core at this early stage of the meta.
 
I think at the moment Gallade is a bit of a stealth threat. It's the only justified user with priority in a tier with Mew which can transform into it and copy its boosts while its move pool gives a good variety of D-max moves. While it's not nearly anywhere as good as Arcanine and Lucario are at this same job in DOU, but it can still run through a large amount of the opponent's team before it faints.

Mew is a literally amazing mon. The ability to Imprison Trick Room is useful in a tier where Trick Room is common speed control and Transform is an amazing move- in conjunction with Imprison it can shut down an opposing Pokemon entirely or you can copy your own sweeper like Kommo-o allowing yourself two Kommo-o's and the freedom to Dynamax one while preserving your ability to spam a powerful STAB spread move.

Kommo-o finds numerous set up opportunities and can then just mow down opposing enemies. Not really much to say there but fear the dragon.

Posting about these three in particular because I think they make a surprisingly effective offensive core at this early stage of the meta.
I do think Kommo-o is quite terrifying in this meta, particularly because of the serious lack of viable fairy types in the tier.
 

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Recent usage updates for Doubles UU:

Butterfree moved from DUU to DOU
Mew moved from DUU to DOU
Aegislash moved from DOU to DUU
Lucario moved from DOU to DUU
Oranguru moved from DOU to DUU
Scrafty moved from DOU to DUU
Slowpoke-Galar moved from DOU to DUU

Two of the best pokemon are now gone, and TR gets more help in Oranguru/Scrafty. Aegislash should also be a very good Pokemon. We will have a VR and sample teams soon!
 

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Hello! We have a Viability Rankings! Please post and yell at us about how wrong we are, especially if we missed a Pokemon entirely. We also have some sample teams, but I am looking for more good teams, so please post yours! I will post the table below that shows how we voted on the VR.

Pokemonn10sitDemantoidlord death manMajorBowmantalkingtreeResult
Aegislash222222
Alcremie343444
Araquanid544444
Bisharp555555
Bronzong445444
Cinderace333323
Clefable55URUR55
Copperajah454555
Cursola4UR5URURUR
Dracozolt334333
DrednawUR5URUR4UR
Drifblim445444
Durant443444
EscavalierURUR5URURUR
Gengar445555
GigalithUR555UR5
GoodraURURURURURUR
Greedent34
Hawlucha444444
HaxorusURURURURURUR
Hitmontop445444
Hydreigon533333
Indeedee222222
Inteleon55URUR55
Jellicent543344
Kommo-o111111
Lucario55URURURUR
Mamoswine223322
Mandibuzz444444
Milotic333433
Mudsdale5URUR5URUR
Noivern443434
Obstagoon455555
Oranguru444544
PassimianUR55URURUR
Polteageist455URUR5
RaichuURURURURURUR
Reuniclus444544
Rillaboom554455
Rotom-H223232
Rotom-M334223
SableyeURURURUR5UR
SandacondaURURURURURUR
Scrafty334333
SilvallyURURURURURUR
Silvally-Fairy555545
Silvally-SteelUR55555
TogedemaruURURURURURUR
Togetic555UR55
Tsareena555URUR5
Vanilluxe555555
VikavoltURURURURURUR
Weavile545444
Weezing-G444544
 

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Usage shift for March 1st, 2020:

Milotic moved from DUU to DOU

Celebi moved from DOU to DUU
Cobalion moved from DOU to DUU
Corsola moved from DOU to DUU
Darmanitan moved from DOU to DUU
Decidueye moved from DOU to DUU
Dugtrio-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Farfetch'd moved from DOU to DUU
Keldeo moved from DOU to DUU
Kyurem moved from DOU to DUU
Linoone moved from DOU to DUU

Meltan moved from DOU to DUU
Mimikyu moved from DOU to DUU
Ninetales-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Persian-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Primarina moved from DOU to DUU

Raichu-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Rapidash moved from DOU to DUU
Stunfisk moved from DOU to DUU
Toxtricity moved from DOU to DUU
Virizion moved from DOU to DUU
Weezing moved from DOU to DUU


Lots of drops with home having been released in February. Notable ones I've put in bold. The loss of Milotic, the most used Pokemon on the DUU ladder in february, is also very important. We will vote on these shortly!
 
Another notable change in the meta is the release of the Incineroar line, more specifically Torracat. It's just a slightly less bulky version of Incineroar that has to run eviolite instead of a berry. It gets Intimidate, Fake Out, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, U-turn/Parting Shot, so it's a pretty nice 'mon. This also introduces a faux Incineroar+Gothitelle strat similar to DOU's, with the weaker versions of both being usable.

More importantly, with the introduction of Incineroar into DOU...

he cometh
 

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Another notable change in the meta is the release of the Incineroar line, more specifically Torracat. It's just a slightly less bulky version of Incineroar that has to run eviolite instead of a berry. It gets Intimidate, Fake Out, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, U-turn/Parting Shot, so it's a pretty nice 'mon. This also introduces a faux Incineroar+Gothitelle strat similar to DOU's, with the weaker versions of both being usable.
Using all of this reasoning to nominate Torracat UR > 4.

It's good and both sash and eviolite are strong and useful (even if its bulk w/eviolite is sad). Unlike Scrafty/Hitmontop, it can pivot, and it's fast enough to catch several mons with a parting shot. Fire stab is good. Sad bulk holds it back severely, but I think it is really solid at what it does.
 
Using all of this reasoning to nominate Torracat UR > 4.

It's good and both sash and eviolite are strong and useful (even if its bulk w/eviolite is sad). Unlike Scrafty/Hitmontop, it can pivot, and it's fast enough to catch several mons with a parting shot. Fire stab is good. Sad bulk holds it back severely, but I think it is really solid at what it does.
I'd even argue that Torracat is t3 or t2 materia, mainly bc I think you're understating its bulk a bit. To explain what I mean, here's the set I'm running:

Torracat @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 48 SpA / 104 SpD
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Heat Wave
- Will-O-Wisp
- Parting Shot

Kinda funky, but it does its job well. 252 HP and 104 Def and eviolite let it reach 334 HP and 243 Def; to compare, 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar (the set I'm most used to running in DOU) reaches 392 HP and 216 Def. While the HP is lower, Torracat's base-90 Speed tier lets it pivot around and avoid taking hits whenever possible. As mentioned in my first post, it pairs really nicely with Gothorita, who provides Fake Out support and traps Intimidated opponents, allowing Torracat to pivot into bigger threats that appreciate having opps trapped with lowered offensive.

With that in mind, I'd like to nominate Gothorita from UR to Tier 3, at the lowest. It offers all the same support as Gothitelle, and is even bulkier than it (Gothorita has 324 HP and 393 Def with eviolite, while Gothitelle has 344 HP and 317 Def). Its reliance on Eviolite kinda sucks, but the support of Trick Room, Fake Out, Heal Pulse and Ally Switch definitely makes up for it. I've even seen Skill Swap be used with some success, as it can give an ally the busted AF Shadow Tag.

tl;dr
Torracat: UR -> higher than 4
Gothorita: UR -> Tier 3, or higher
 

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Thoughts on some of the new drops.

Celebi: Almost worth using, it's just missing something big and has too many weaknesses. Unfortunate. :( Imprison + TR is sort of a bad Indeedee except for having Rocks/Perish Song/Thunder Wave, but it's not like you'll get a whole lot of chances to use any of those.

Cobalion: Before Beat Up was banned, this was looking to be stupid; I think it's just barely okay now. It has a lot of sets and a lot of potential via those sets, but the sets themselves are all, for the most part, not worth ranking alone. It just has a lot of versatility on top of being fast and bulky, from offensive WP dynamax cheese to utility sets.

Darmanitan: I think other people might be overlooking this, but the meta has so few good fire resists and this hits hard. Adamant Scarf's Fire Punch is stronger than Jolly (sash) Cinderace's Pyro Ball. I think this has a serious niche just in terms of how terrifyingly strong it is and how fire-vulnerable the tier is as a whole.

Keldeo: Pretty good but nothing special. It's like a bulky Intelleon with Fighting Stab > Torrent + Dark coverage. Not a whole lot to say, really; it exists and is nothing particularly special.

Kyurem: Massively threatening mon, but Weakness Policy sets stand out as exceptionally strong. Specs, AV, LO, subroost are all good as well, but 3 attacks weakness policy is honestly overwhelming due to the absurd bulk + coverage.

Linoone: This is scary except it never sets up? I actually don't know what to think about this. Dynamaxed mons can generally tank a +6 Espeed too, which is another layer of problems for it.

Mimikyu: Surprisingly good - SD, TR, utility LO wisp sets are all worth using. Ghost+Fairy is an incredible dual stab to have at the moment, but it has a lot of big flaws that hold it back from being a top threat. Also, disguise is amazing at burning through certain mon's DMAX turns.

Ninetales-Alola:
Does what Vanilluxe does - not much else to say. Ctrl-F and replace it on your teams.

Primarina:
Budget Sylveon in a lot of respects, but the typing is so good for checking Kommo-O and non-Freeze Dry Kyurem. Sub CM and Specs are both good, AV is still like, radically ok. It's sort of unfortunate it doesn't have muddy water, because it'd be nice to run on specs when the other options aren't too great (Energy Ball, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball all have pretty minimal coverage and suck to be locked into).

Toxtricity: This mon is SO weird. DUU is presently poised to make spamming specs Boombursts not that bad of an idea (Noivern, Aegislash, Gengar) but the bulk is just not there. It needs a lot of support but it can absolutely eat teams due to having 2 very strong spread moves.

Virizion: I want to like this but it's the worst aspects of Cobalion + Celebi merged, except it also doesn't have Thunder Wave.
 

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Some news on the VR council front: MajorBowman has resigned as his efforts to master force lightning in quarantine are taking up all of his time nowadays. He has been replaced by good user Yuichi!

Celebi: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: UR
  • Yuichi: UR. Grass isnt really that valuable offensively in duu rn and it hits like a wet noodle
  • Talkingtree: UR. I actually like this better in DOU because at least it has the niche of taking on Dark Pulse-less NP Washtom. I feel like Celebi is one of those mons that I can understand why you'd use it (role compression mostly), but it's not widely viable enough to be ranked.
  • Lord death man: UR. I can not make this work.
  • Demantoid: 5. Either has an okay or terrible match up depending on the opponent’s team

Cobalion: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: UR. too weak for me
  • Yuichi: UR. Could see it being T5 bc of pivot + rocks but havent really played w it too much yet
  • Talkingtree: UR, this is bad without Beat Up.
  • Lord death man: 5. Good stab combo + great bulk + is scary when dynamaxed but it kind of just sits around and does nothing versus way too many things, and it isn’t quite strong enough without a boost (from dynamax, swords dance, weakness policy). I think it deserves to be ranked because it dunks on a lot of defensive mons with its stabs but that’s about all it does.
  • Demantoid: UR. Doesn’t really do anything

Darmanitan: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: abstain
  • Yuichi: 5. what ldm said
  • Talkingtree: 5, read the below
  • Lord death man: 5. I don’t want to say UR solely because Cinderace has shown how amazing fire is as an offensive typing in this meta, scarf Darm is stronger than LO Cinderace, and we lost one of the few mons who could consistently stand up to it with the tier shift.
  • Demantoid: 5. Great offensive presence, but doesn’t really offer much else

Decidueye: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: UR
  • Yuichi: UR
  • Talkingtree: UR. I can see wanting to use this because of Spirit Shackle but like…. it's not good.
  • Lord death man: UR this thing is a shitmon with a bad typing and bad stats.
  • Demantoid: sobad

Dugtrio-Alola: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: UR
  • Yuichi: UR
  • Talkingtree: no
  • Lord death man: UR baaaad stats.
  • Demantoid: sobad

Keldeo: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: tier 3. Solid combos of stabs + access to air slash makes it a formidable dynamax mon.
  • Yuichi: 3. What tree said
  • Talkingtree: 3. Super flexible with its third move (Air Slash, Icy Wind, Taunt, even Helping Hand), and it got everything it needed this gen with Muddy Water and Aura Sphere.
  • Lord death man: 4, it's very similar to Intelleon but with bulk + a good stab in exchange for 12 speed, ice beam, and torrent; it is good but I’m apprehensive to say it’s particularly amazing and being vulnerable to flying is a huge flaw.
  • Demantoid: abstain

Kyurem: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: tier 1. Competes with kommo-o for most threatening mon in the format. Wp kyurem is borderline broken
  • Yuichi: 1. WP broke
  • Talkingtree: 1, WP Dynamax Kyurem just wins most games if it has speed control. It even has access to the good max moves with Earth Power and Flash Cannon, and its stats are really solid across the board.
  • Lord death man: 1, WP is dominant.
  • Demantoid: 1. Really good stats and coverage.

Linoone: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: UR. extensive testing proved this mon to be unusable. Not bulky enough to get set up opportunities even with clefable and hitmontop support.
  • Yuichi: UR
  • Talkingtree: UR, I trust n10sit's opinion on Linoone.
  • Lord death man: uh 5 i guess? It’s cheese and it requires a lot of effort but dynamax makes it harder for indeedee/tsareena to just outright stop it and there’s no azumarill to outshine it, I think it’s perfectly fine at what it does right now.
  • Demantoid: UR

Mimikyu: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: genuinely think this mon is tier 2. Has many viable 3rd moves, can run multiple items, and is an extremely solid check to both kyurem and kommo-o. Fits on a lot of teams.
  • Yuichi: 3, what tree said
  • Talkingtree: 3. I think being a check to Kyurem and Kommo-o is huge, as n10sit said, but I don't think it's quite as good as tier 2.
  • Lord death man: 4, it has a lot of utility but it also sucks bad but i really do think the utility it offers is huge. Uniquely well positioned to abuse dynamax and waste dynamax turns.
  • Demantoid: 4. Doesn’t have much offensive pressure and mediocre utility

Ninetales-Alola: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: 4 is great. Good vs a lot of stuff thats good in this format, but kind of a bad mon
  • Yuichi: 4 is aight
  • Talkingtree: 4. That's one tier higher than Vanilluxe is right now, which I think is absolutely fair. Faster and access to Fairy STAB is great in this meta and it has an alright selection of support options to go along with Aurora Veil.
  • Lord death man: 4? 3? Wherever vanilluxe is, also UR Vanilluxe. Arguably the same mon except sucks less because fast.
  • Demantoid: 4 is fine

Persian-Alola: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: UR, ldm’s reasoning is spot on
  • Yuichi: UR. It's a worse torracat
  • Talkingtree: UR until I see it actually do something that another mon can't do.
  • Lord death man: UR. Torracat got parting shot and it makes me not want to touch this. All it really is is an Aegislash check imo.
  • Demantoid: UR

Primarina: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: 5 is fine, trust ldm’s judgement
  • Yuichi: 5. haven't really touched this much but it seems dece on paper and has been decently useful in games so far
  • Talkingtree: 4. Great typing, decent power and bulk, really only lacking in the coverage and the speed. Unfortunately it suffers from Sylveon-syndrome as a Calm Mind user with lacking Defense; otherwise I'd use it a whole lot.
  • Lord death man: 5. I’m torn on ranking this, but the typing is too good to overlook and the addition of CM to its movepool lets it work as a budget Sylveon. One of the more reliable Kommo checks, fairy that doesn’t auto lose to Aegislash, Cinderace has to runk Gunk Shot to touch it (Sucker, U-Turn, and Bounce are all fighting for that slot), etc. but it struggles to actually leverage all of that into a particularly useful role.
  • Demantoid: 5. Everything about Primarina is good except its speed which holds it back a lot

Raichu-Alola: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: nope
  • Yuichi: UR
  • Talkingtree: UR until the POWER core of Raichu + Pincurchin surges onto the scene
  • Lord death man: no. np + dynamax almost seems usable until you see that it’s weak and frail and bad.
  • Demantoid: UR

Rapidash: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: no
  • Yuichi: no
  • Talkingtree: no
  • Lord death man: no
  • Demantoid: sobad

Stunfisk: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: no
  • Yuichi: no
  • Talkingtree: no
  • Lord death man: no
  • Demantoid: sobad

Toxitricity: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: everyones said 5 so thats fine
  • Yuichi: 5
  • Talkingtree: 5, LDM has it down
  • Lord death man: 5. It sucks but its strong but it sucks.
  • Demantoid: 5. Has electric spread that isn’t discharge

Virizion: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: UR bad mon
  • Yuichi: UR. Dried pasta hits harder and it has 0 utility value
  • Talkingtree: 5. Decently specially bulky, pretty fast, and answers Hydrei / Scrafty / Mamoswine to varying degrees.
  • Lord death man: UR it loses BAD to everything good and provides no real utility.
  • Demantoid: UR Probably usable though

Weezing: UR -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: no outclassed by weezing-g
  • Yuichi:no
  • Talkingtree: no
  • Lord death man: no. weezing-galar is too much better.
  • Demantoid: sobad

Torracat: UR -> Tier 4 or 3 or 2:
  • N10sit: 3, a pivoting semi bulky fire is nuts. Falls to 4 or 5 when arc drops but fake out + pivot + intim is a sweet combo, will always have a niche
  • Yuichi: 3. Basically a faster but frailer incin
  • Talkingtree: 4, the nom's spot on. But when Arcanine drops this will be nearly irrelevant.
  • Lord death man: 4. My nom.
  • Demantoid: 3. Fake Out and Pivoting could give it a niche even if Arcanine drops

Gothorita: UR -> Tier 5 or 4 or 3:
  • N10sit: 4? Idk man i havent seen anyone actually make a good team with it yet and i suck too bad
  • Yuichi: 3. Stag is still pretty broke even in duu and it basically gets goths kit
  • Talkingtree: I'm gonna go with the hot take that this is 3 but could even rise more. The support it provides is just insane and it's super bulky. Shadow Tag is just so strong in a DMax meta.
  • Lord death man: 4? It’s just goth jr. but idk. The ladder doesn’t play well enough to get a feel for it at all.
  • Demantoid: 4. Could be very good in theory, but there aren’t too many good abusers right now


Results:
Darmanitan: NEW -> Tier 5
Keldeo: NEW -> Tier 3
Kyurem: NEW -> Tier 1
Mimikyu: NEW -> Tier 3
Ninetales-Alola: NEW -> Tier 4 (NOTE: As this mon strictly outclasses Vanilluxe, Vanilluxe has been moved from Tier 5 to UR)
Primarina: NEW -> Tier 5
Toxitricity: NEW -> Tier 5
Torracat: NEW -> Tier 3
Gothorita: UR -> Tier 4
 

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I've got some VR nominations for things to move down, as things are fairly different now than when the VR was made. UPDATED 4/8/20 for Dynamax ban.

Kyurem Tier 1 -> Tier 2: While still a good pokemon, no longer the unrelenting force it was as a Weakness Policy abuser. Now clearly a class below Kommo-o.

Indeedee Tier 2 -> Tier 3: While still a multi faceted and powerful Pokemon, not quite the end all be all Kommo-o/TR check it was when the format was first created. Tier 3 better reflects its current standing in the metagame.

Dracozolt Tier 3 -> Tier 5: While still a strong attacker, has a ton of competition with the number of seriously busted Dragons in this format + is also checked very well by the new addition of Darmanitan-Galar. UPDATE: After the dynamax ban, this Pokemon has gotten much worse as there is no option for it to max and be a serious threat. Remains to be seen whether this is still viable but I'm guessing that scarf Bolt Beak is still powerful enough to have a niche.

Durant: Tier 4 -> UR: Don't think this has a place in the meta anymore as it was primarily a dynamax user. Could still perhaps see use as an offensive steel but I think its flaws far outweigh its positives as of right now.

Weavile Tier 4 -> Tier 5 or UR: I don't know what this does the fast fake out support isn't needed by like any team, you just use Torracat or Scrafty for fake out support. I've only ever seen this on coalossal teams
 
Last edited:

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Hello! We decided to follow in DOU's footsteps and do a spreadsheet to change the VR as the metagame has shifted substantially post Dynamax ban. We also placed our new additions for April in this spreadsheet, and they have been added. I will post the placement of the new additions to DUU, but the rest of the changes will just be in the table.

PokemonDemantoidLord Death Mann10sittalkingtreeYuichiResult
Aegislash222222
Alcremie445?555
Araquanid445434
Bisharp444444
Braviary555445
Bronzong444444
Butterfree5UR5555
Cinderace332233
Clefable554555
Clefairy454444
Copperajah555555
Darmanitan555555
Darmanitan-G231212
Dracozolt455555
DrifblimUR5UR5URUR
Duraludon332222
DurantUR5UR5URUR
Gengar555545
Gigalith555UR55
Gothorita344444
Greedent543454
HawluchaURURURURURUR
Hitmontop454454
Hydreigon223333
Indeedee323333
Inteleon333333
Jellicent443333
Keldeo333333
Kommo-o111111
Kyurem222222
Mamoswine322232
Mandibuzz444444
Mimikyu332222
Ninetales-A434444
NoivernUR555UR5
Obstagoon5UR5UR55
Oranguru5UR5UR55
Polteageist5URUR5URUR
Primarina444334
Reuniclus555555
Rillaboom455455
Rotom-C443434
Rotom-H333333
Scrafty444444
Silvally-FairyURUR55URUR
Silvally-SteelURUR5URURUR
Togetic555555
Torracat433444
Toxtricity455455
Tsareena5URURUR5UR
Weavile55URURURUR
Weezing-G545555


Placement of new additions to DUU:
:Braviary: NEW -> Tier 5
:Butterfree: NEW -> Tier 5
:Darmanitan-Galar: NEW -> Tier 2
:Duraludon: NEW -> Tier 2
 

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Gyarados moved from DOU to DUU
Lapras moved from DOU to DUU
Snorlax moved from DOU to DUU

Darmanitan-Galar moved from DUU to DOU
Ludicolo moved from DUU to DOU

Tier shift changes for May. Gyarados and Snorlax have potential to be very powerful threats, and a very strong Pokemon in Darmanitan-Galar has returned to DOU.
 

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Wartortle UR > 4. Essentially the same reasons that Blastoise is good in DOU; has semi-unique access to Fake Out + Follow Me with actual bulk, fairly reliably checks big threats like Cinderace and Intelleon that the fairy redirectors struggle with, and has some useful utility options that don't - Haze, Rapid Spin - while also maintaining a lot of the options they do have - Helping Hand, Yawn.

Ribombee UR > 5. I think this mon is sort of bad, but access to a fast tailwind, fast sticky web, fast pollen puff, and fast fairy STAB gives it a niche and it's ok on the right team. Speed Swap is absolutely atrocious, though.
 

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
We have some votes! Just a small batch of stuff as we get ready for our first forum tour of this generation! Make sure to sign up if you haven't already!

Gyarados: NEW -> Tier ?
  • N10sit: im hesitant to say 3, i think it has a lot of bad matchups. Gonna say 4 for now, wouldnt be surprised if it rose later
  • TalkingTree: 3, what everyone else said
  • Demantoid: 3 is okay. Weird coverage and typing makes it kind of hit or miss
  • LorD death man: 3, band is super good.
  • Yuichi: 3 seems fine

Lapras: NEW -> Tier ?
  • N10sit: UR, dont see any reason this could be viable
  • Talkingtree: UR
  • Demantoid: UR. Doesn’t really do anything better than other waters
  • Lord deaTh man: UR for now, all it has is perish trapping which probably isn’t good.
  • Yuichi: UR. Bad mon

Snorlax: NEW -> Tier ?
  • N10sIt: 3 is good. Solid mon.
  • TallKingTree: 3, I have this weird feeling that it’s actually going to be kind of bad but for the moment 3 feels accurate.
  • Demantoid: 3 to start.
  • Lord death man: 3 I think? This thing is the king of TR imo but TR also isn’t all that great. I’m doubtful that curse sets will make much sense on many non-tr teams following the berry nerf as well, and I think we should wait and see if this has any wide-reaching metagame effects.
  • Yuichi: 3. Band seems pretty promising and its pretty fat w a ton of coverage

Greedent: Tier 4 -> Tier 5 or UR
  • N10sit: UR, wholly outclassed by snorlax now :(
  • TalkingTree: UR, poor :potofgreedent:
  • Demantoid: UR. Fat squirrel bad
  • Lord Death man: UR i’m over it
  • Yuichi: UR.

Wartortle: UR -> Tier 4
  • N10sit: Im willing to say tier 5 definitely, it can still be a big momentum suck because of the 0 offensive presence
  • Talkingtree: 4, what Demantoid said. There are enough offensive mons to take advantage of its support and compensate for its inability to do damage.
  • Demantoid: 4. Great support mon. One of the bulkiest redirection users in duu with pretty good typing.
  • Lord death mAn: my nom
  • Yuichi: 5 as of now, havent had much success w it

Ribombee: UR -> Tier 5
  • N10sit: abstain i havent seen a good player use this ever (i havent watched ldm use it)
  • TalkingTree: UR. Willing to be convinced otherwise in the tour.
  • Demantoid: UR. Not convinced it’s good enough to actually be ranked
  • Lord death man: my nom
  • YuIchi: abstain


Results
Gyarados: NEW -> Tier 3
Snorlax: NEW -> Tier 3
Greedent: Tier 4 -> UR
Wartortle: UR -> Tier 4
 
Last edited:

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Changes for June:

Kommo-o moved from DUU to DOU
Kyurem moved from DUU to DOU
Primarina moved from DUU to DOU

Arcanine moved from DOU to DUU

With the formats most centralizing Pokemon rising with a new tournament, everything is kind of up in the air. I genuinely am unsure what is in tier 1 at this moment. The tournament will prove immensely helpful in shaping DUU and giving us a starting point before we have to adjust again thanks to the DLC. I understand you may not want to tip your hand if you are playing in the tournament, but please post about Pokemon, cores, or even teams that you think are good now. Thanks everyone for your help and good luck in the tournament! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/swsh-doubles-uu-corona-tion-tournament.3664958/
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top