The tiers are decided by usage statistics, while the viability rankings are decided by expert opinion.
Usage doesn’t always match up with expert opinion, especially on the ladder
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame Doubles UU
- Thread starter n10siT
- Start date
- Status
Usage doesn’t always match up with expert opinion, especially on the ladder
Also going to add to what everyone else is saying by saying that Hydreigon has been legal for a while, while we got access to a bunch of new dragons (Naganadel, Latios, Latias, Salamence, Kommo-O) so people are still avoiding it while they play with new toys.
Sy for the late reply. Ty guys for ur answers
I've been playing some DUU low ladder recently, and every generation I wait for the days when Hail will be viable and today with this DUU we're finally there. I may not be very high up on ladder, but Hail + Psychic Terrain lets you take on some top threats and coupled with Arctovish and Arctozolt getting Slush Rush now Hail teams finally have the damage output they truly desire. I feel like among these frozen titans, Vanilluxe deserves the most exploration.
As a hail setter, it sets itself apart from Ninetales by A. being slower, B. having access to Taunt, and C. having access to Ally Switch. Its access to Freeze Dry can also free up a move slot for Ninetales. I feel like in terms of viability, it could definitely fit in Tier 5 with Alolan Ninetales.
As a hail setter, it sets itself apart from Ninetales by A. being slower, B. having access to Taunt, and C. having access to Ally Switch. Its access to Freeze Dry can also free up a move slot for Ninetales. I feel like in terms of viability, it could definitely fit in Tier 5 with Alolan Ninetales.
Registeel UR > 5.
This fat blob is incredibly good at sitting there and being fat. While it often faces an uphill battle as a wincon due to its complete lack of recovery - setting it apart from peers like Corviknight and to a lesser extent Ferrothorn (who has Leech Seed, which is pretty much the only reason I'd ever use iron defense on Ferrothorn) - and from lacking Kommo-O's type and ability advantages, Registeel is a solid Iron Defense wincon entirely because it is incredibly good at being stupidly fat and sitting in place while being stupidly fat.
The meta is incredibly specially oriented, and teams - especially rain teams - often find themselves struggling to break through mons that are particularly specially bulky. This is true for Chansey, Kyurem, and Psychic Seed variants of Milotic and Togekiss, and it is also true for Registeel; the difference is that Registeel can abuse that to get an Iron Defense up and then start walling team's rare physical attackers. It also has access to Amnesia, something other Iron Defense mons don't have; if you have a particularly strong amount of support for it, it can run away with games.
It is, however, also incredibly one note. It can realistically only run two (maybe three if you want to be timid for some reason) spreads, and the viability of those spreads is oriented entirely around whether you're running Toxic or Amnesia (or Thunder Wave if you want to abuse yellow magic).
This is the set I use; after talking with n10siT it turns out my spread does nothing specific but I strongly encourage you use Calm if you're not Amnesia, and then either Bold or Timid if you are.
Some choice calcs.
Also Indeedee is Tier 2 (or at LEAST 3, but I'm pushing for 2), I don't think I need to make an argument for why. Similarly, Alakazam is probably tier 4.
This fat blob is incredibly good at sitting there and being fat. While it often faces an uphill battle as a wincon due to its complete lack of recovery - setting it apart from peers like Corviknight and to a lesser extent Ferrothorn (who has Leech Seed, which is pretty much the only reason I'd ever use iron defense on Ferrothorn) - and from lacking Kommo-O's type and ability advantages, Registeel is a solid Iron Defense wincon entirely because it is incredibly good at being stupidly fat and sitting in place while being stupidly fat.
The meta is incredibly specially oriented, and teams - especially rain teams - often find themselves struggling to break through mons that are particularly specially bulky. This is true for Chansey, Kyurem, and Psychic Seed variants of Milotic and Togekiss, and it is also true for Registeel; the difference is that Registeel can abuse that to get an Iron Defense up and then start walling team's rare physical attackers. It also has access to Amnesia, something other Iron Defense mons don't have; if you have a particularly strong amount of support for it, it can run away with games.
It is, however, also incredibly one note. It can realistically only run two (maybe three if you want to be timid for some reason) spreads, and the viability of those spreads is oriented entirely around whether you're running Toxic or Amnesia (or Thunder Wave if you want to abuse yellow magic).
This is the set I use; after talking with n10siT it turns out my spread does nothing specific but I strongly encourage you use Calm if you're not Amnesia, and then either Bold or Timid if you are.
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Toxic / Amnesia
- Protect
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Toxic / Amnesia
- Protect
Some choice calcs.
252 SpA Life Orb Naganadel Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel: 174-205 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Muddy Water vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel in Rain: 105-125 (28.8 - 34.3%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel: 257-304 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Registeel: 256-303 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Registeel: 256-303 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. +2 252 HP / 60 Def Registeel: 248-294 (68.1 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Solar Power Charizard Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel in Sun: 284-336 (78 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Spectrier Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel: 79-94 (21.7 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel in Psychic Terrain: 69-81 (18.9 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Registeel: 343-406 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Muddy Water vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel in Rain: 105-125 (28.8 - 34.3%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel: 257-304 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Registeel: 256-303 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Registeel: 256-303 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. +2 252 HP / 60 Def Registeel: 248-294 (68.1 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Solar Power Charizard Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel in Sun: 284-336 (78 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Spectrier Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel: 79-94 (21.7 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Registeel in Psychic Terrain: 69-81 (18.9 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Registeel: 343-406 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Also Indeedee is Tier 2 (or at LEAST 3, but I'm pushing for 2), I don't think I need to make an argument for why. Similarly, Alakazam is probably tier 4.
The lack of viable Dark-types makes PsySpam that much more dangerous, and I'm surprised not too many people picked up on splashing it and one of Zam/Victini/Blace on a good amount of teams yet. Going with LDM on 2, it's that good that I have to be thinking of adding Dark type, Bulu and/or a good offensive matchup against Indeedee and its partners.
With that I'd like to nom Krookodile to 5 for a start, access to Intimidate/Moxie and a typing that makes it immune to both yellow magic, Prankster and Expanding Force make it at least considerable in teambuilding, and looking at the r1 replays of the tour so far other people seem to think that's the case. Great coverage options to threaten revenge kills with a Scarf on things like Spectrier/Naga/PsySpam/Adamant Scarf Victini, or one could go bulky/Sash with Taunt, SR and Intimidate utility.
With that I'd like to nom Krookodile to 5 for a start, access to Intimidate/Moxie and a typing that makes it immune to both yellow magic, Prankster and Expanding Force make it at least considerable in teambuilding, and looking at the r1 replays of the tour so far other people seem to think that's the case. Great coverage options to threaten revenge kills with a Scarf on things like Spectrier/Naga/PsySpam/Adamant Scarf Victini, or one could go bulky/Sash with Taunt, SR and Intimidate utility.
It dawned on me that I'm out of the tour and people don't know that lord seismitoad is epic so here is the team I used in r1
https://pokepast.es/1c7fa4149e577c82
Rain is extremely good in this format because kingdra and politoed, two hallmarks of gen 7 rain, exist and are still just as strong. There are a number of decent water resists but its easy to break them down with consistent strong hits or just get around them with muddy waters. Some of the most annoying answers to rain are AV bulu (takes hits well from both kingdra and ludicolo while recovering), thundurus (twave is epic) and dracozolt (with sand to reverse weather it can take hits and ohko most of what rain has with bolt beaks). Enter seismitoad. It can ohko the sample AV bulu set with LO sludge bomb, and with HH support from politoed, it can outspeed and ohko ludicolos in the mirror. It has a super consistent ground STAB and typing, which lets it pressure pokemon like naganadel, blastoise and dracozolt with good damage or ohkos, notably being immune to bolt beak so it makes dracozolts life awkward even in sand. Most valuably though, it is immune to thunder wave from thundurus, letting it be an extremely good check while still providing offense. I firmly believe it is as good as, if not better than ludicolo on rain teams, and deserves to be Tier 3 at least.
More on the team itself, specs kingdra is non-negotiable on rain for its insanely strong attacks and great coverage with hurricane and draco meteor. Kommo-o was added as a good check to ferrothorns, even beating the iron defense variants while setting rocks to aid in sweeping with muddy waters and being a wincon itself. Thundurus is also non-negotiable to hit blastoise super hard and cause problems for tr/tw setters, also being able to set rain out of nowhere and restart the offense if politoed goes down early or sand is switched in. Indeedee was a bulu for my set, and that was a huge mistake because bulu will always suck whatever format it is in. The lack of twave on thundurus (and the lack of need for it) means indeedee doesnt really clash and is able to provide the utility of blocking fake outs and scizors bullet punches, resetting bulus terrain and checking tr by slowing down their setup for a turn or two. If you wanted to make changes, i think kommo-o could feasibly be clangorous soul with flamethrower/aura sphere, and indeedee could be a number of pokemon. Naganadel, scizor and ludicolo spring to mind, but i think indeedee fits really well.
https://pokepast.es/1c7fa4149e577c82
Rain is extremely good in this format because kingdra and politoed, two hallmarks of gen 7 rain, exist and are still just as strong. There are a number of decent water resists but its easy to break them down with consistent strong hits or just get around them with muddy waters. Some of the most annoying answers to rain are AV bulu (takes hits well from both kingdra and ludicolo while recovering), thundurus (twave is epic) and dracozolt (with sand to reverse weather it can take hits and ohko most of what rain has with bolt beaks). Enter seismitoad. It can ohko the sample AV bulu set with LO sludge bomb, and with HH support from politoed, it can outspeed and ohko ludicolos in the mirror. It has a super consistent ground STAB and typing, which lets it pressure pokemon like naganadel, blastoise and dracozolt with good damage or ohkos, notably being immune to bolt beak so it makes dracozolts life awkward even in sand. Most valuably though, it is immune to thunder wave from thundurus, letting it be an extremely good check while still providing offense. I firmly believe it is as good as, if not better than ludicolo on rain teams, and deserves to be Tier 3 at least.
More on the team itself, specs kingdra is non-negotiable on rain for its insanely strong attacks and great coverage with hurricane and draco meteor. Kommo-o was added as a good check to ferrothorns, even beating the iron defense variants while setting rocks to aid in sweeping with muddy waters and being a wincon itself. Thundurus is also non-negotiable to hit blastoise super hard and cause problems for tr/tw setters, also being able to set rain out of nowhere and restart the offense if politoed goes down early or sand is switched in. Indeedee was a bulu for my set, and that was a huge mistake because bulu will always suck whatever format it is in. The lack of twave on thundurus (and the lack of need for it) means indeedee doesnt really clash and is able to provide the utility of blocking fake outs and scizors bullet punches, resetting bulus terrain and checking tr by slowing down their setup for a turn or two. If you wanted to make changes, i think kommo-o could feasibly be clangorous soul with flamethrower/aura sphere, and indeedee could be a number of pokemon. Naganadel, scizor and ludicolo spring to mind, but i think indeedee fits really well.
The finals of the DUU recoronation tournament are here! Based on what we have seen in this tournament, the DUU VR council has revoted on every mon on the current VR, as well as any non ranked mons who saw considerable tournament usage and/or success. The VR on the third post in this thread should be up to date!
Also, I know I've been a broken record about this, but I need sample teams! Now that the tournament is almost over, there are quite a few people who built very solid teams in this tournament who have yet to post any of their teams in this thread! Thank you to those who have done so already.
| Pokemon | Previous tier | Usage rank - % (Winrate) | n10siT | lord death man | Demantoid | Memoric | Yuichi | Nido-Rus | Result |
| Necrozma | NEW | #68 - 1.402% (66.667%) | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Zeraora | NEW | #22 - 8.411% (61.111%) | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| Regidrago | NEW | #99 - 0.467% (0%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 |
| Thundurus-Incarnate | 1 | #3 - 29.907% (50%) | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Blastoise | 2 | #2 - 34.112% (46.575%) | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Naganadel | 2 | #7 - 21.963% (34.043%) | 2 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Spectrier | 2 | #6 - 22.897% (51.02%) | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Tapu Bulu | 2 | #1 - 43.925% (44.681%) | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Volcarona | 2 | #5 - 25.701% (41.818%) | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Aegislash | 3 | #37 - 4.206% (55.556%) | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Arcanine | 3 | #18 - 11.215% (37.5%) | 4 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Azumarill | 3 | #57 - 2.336% (60%) | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Charizard | 3 | #45 - 3.271% (57.143%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 |
| Gigalith | 3 | #8 - 14.953% (71.875%) | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Kingdra | 3 | #14 - 12.15% (42.308%) | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Kommo-o | 3 | #10 - 14.019% (50%) | 3 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 3 |
| Kyurem | 3 | #17 - 11.682% (52%) | 2 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Latios | 3 | #50 - 2.804% (66.667%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 |
| Ludicolo | 3 | #30 - 5.607% (33.333%) | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 |
| Ninetales | 3 | #38 - 4.206% (55.556%) | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Politoed | 3 | #12 - 12.617% (40.741%) | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Suicune | 3 | #43 - 4.206% (22.222%) | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 |
| Terrakion | 3 | #39 - 4.206% (44.444%) | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 |
| Togekiss | 3 | #28 - 6.542% (35.714%) | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 |
| Tornadus-Incarnate | 3 | #20 - 9.813% (42.857%) | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Venusaur | 3 | #31 - 5.14% (54.545%) | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 |
| Victini | 3 | #11 - 12.617% (44.444%) | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Blacephalon | 4 | #49 - 2.804% (83.333%) | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 |
| Chansey | 4 | #35 - 4.673% (40%) | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Corviknight | 4 | #48 - 3.271% (28.571%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 |
| Darmanitan-Galar | 4 | No uses | UR | UR | UR | UR | 5 | UR | UR |
| Gastrodon | 4 | #87 - 0.935% (50%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | UR | 4 | 5 |
| Hydreigon | 4 | #56 - 2.336% (60%) | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 |
| Indeedee-Male | 4 | #9 - 14.48% (38.71%) | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 |
| Keldeo | 4 | #63 - 2.336% (0%) | UR | UR | UR | 5 | UR | 5 | UR |
| Latias | 4 | #55 - 2.336% (80%) | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Lurantis | 4 | #53 - 2.336% (100%) | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 |
| Marowak-Alola | 4 | No uses | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Mimikyu | 4 | #88 - 0.935% (50%) | 5 | UR | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 |
| Scrafty | 4 | #4 - 27.103% (55.172%) | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 |
| Sylveon | 4 | #25 - 7.944% (70.588%) | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Araquanid | 5 | No uses | 5 | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Articuno-Galar | 5 | #62 - 2.336% (40%) | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Bisharp | 5 | #44 - 3.738% (25%) | UR | UR | 5 | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Blaziken | 5 | #82 - 0.935% (100%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Bronzong | 5 | #60 - 2.336% (40%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 |
| Buzzwole | 5 | #83 - 0.935% (100%) | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | UR | 5 | 5 |
| Cinderace | 5 | #100 - 0.467% (0%) | UR | UR | 5 | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Clefairy | 5 | #96 - 0.467% (100%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Cofagrigus | 5 | No uses | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Dragonite | 5 | #90 - 0.935% (50%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Ferrothorn | 5 | #33 - 4.673% (70%) | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Garchomp | 5 | #84 - 0.935% (100%) | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | 5 | UR |
| Gengar | 5 | No uses | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Jellicent | 5 | #40 - 4.206% (44.444%) | 5 | UR | UR | UR | 5 | UR | UR |
| Mamoswine | 5 | #59 - 2.336% (40%) | UR | UR | 5 | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Milotic | 5 | #66 - 1.402% (100%) | UR | 5 | 5 | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Ninetales-Alola | 5 | #29 - 5.607% (50%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Pheromosa | 5 | #36 - 4.673% (30%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Rhyperior | 5 | No uses | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Ribombee | 5 | #101 - 0.467% (0%) | UR | 5 | UR | 5 | UR | UR | UR |
| Salamence | 5 | #78 - 1.402% (33.333%) | UR | UR | 5 | UR | UR | 5 | UR |
| Scizor | 5 | #16 - 11.682% (56%) | 4 | 5 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Talonflame | 5 | No uses | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Weezing-Galar | 5 | #27 - 6.542% (64.286%) | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Zarude | 5 | #32 - 5.14% (45.455%) | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Krookodile | UR | #13 - 12.15% (50%) | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 |
| Primarina | UR | #19 - 10.748% (73.913%) | 5 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Alakazam | UR | #23 - 8.411% (33.333%) | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | UR | 5 |
| Torracat | UR | #34 - 4.673% (60%) | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Aromatisse | UR | #41 - 4.206% (44.444%) | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Copperajah | UR | #42 - 4.206% (44.444%) | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Thundurus-Therian | UR | #46 - 3.271% (57.143%) | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | UR | 5 | 5 |
| Toxapex | UR | #47 - 3.271% (42.857%) | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | UR | 5 | 5 |
| Seismitoad | UR | #51 - 2.804% (50%) | UR | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Cursola | UR | #52 - 2.804% (33.333%) | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Hitmontop | UR | #54 - 2.336% (80%) | UR | UR | UR | UR | 5 | UR | UR |
| Arctozolt | UR | #58 - 2.336% (60%) | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR | UR |
| Grimmsnarl | UR | #61 - 2.336% (40%) | UR | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | UR | UR |
| Registeel | UR | #79 - 1.402% (33.333%) | UR | 5 | 5 | UR | UR | UR | UR |
Also, I know I've been a broken record about this, but I need sample teams! Now that the tournament is almost over, there are quite a few people who built very solid teams in this tournament who have yet to post any of their teams in this thread! Thank you to those who have done so already.
DPL 7 DUU Team Dump:
Figured I’d do a team dump from my DPL7 DUU run to help people with some DUU teams and try to raise the quality of play on the ladder. Unfortunately these teams probably won’t be legal once the April tier shifts go into effect, but that’s the nature of DUU.
First wanna give a couple shoutouts, first to everyone on the Ghosters for a great tour, and especially to Kylecole for drafting/practicing with me. Also a huge shoutout to Enzonana, while Enzo didn’t play in the tour they were the best teammate possible, always down for test games and bringing up your spirit when Enzo destroyed you in those test games. Every team needs someone like Enzo, glad he was on ours. Also shoutout to Shrop, because without including me on his DPL Power Rankings, I don’t think I would have gotten drafted.
I was extremely happy with how my DPL run went, going 4-1. I’d wager I spent more time/effort than any other player in DPL for prepping, and I’m super glad that showed in the results.
Now that the sappy part is out of the way, onto DUU:
Ultimately I think the meta is super centered around two types of teams: set-up or weather. My goal on every team was to bring enough spread offense to smash set up and to have a playable matchup against all types of weather - I often accomplished both by using choice specs indeedee, which I think I was the only player to use (Demantoid brought a scarf version), and I think that other players really underrated how effective it is. In my opinion Psyspam is EXTREMELY powerful in the current meta, and every team needs to be prepped for it with either 1 good psychic resist + bulu or 2 good psychic resists.
I also loved bringing my own weather, as it’s a great form of instant offense, as long as you have answers for the common counters like Weezing-g and TR.
Lastly I think roar and other phazing moves are extremely useful in underdeveloped metas, especially ones that have a lot of set-up. They allow you to get out of tough spots, while also preventing TR which was necessary on some teams as I didn’t bring a lot of bulk most of the time.
Onto the teams:
W1 vs AtmosphereVGC: L
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesuu-1285858069
Team: https://pokepast.es/35bbb6ba95632058
W2 vs Kaori: W
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesuu-1290699653
Team: https://pokepast.es/b9452166b26d1182
W3 vs Demantoid: W
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesuu-1294780119
Team: https://pokepast.es/2e35bc48d845bf11
W4 vs Human: W
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesuu-1301279627
Team: https://pokepast.es/acae46809decd8a6
W5 vs SMB: W
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesuu-1305903524
Team: https://pokepast.es/c7ef70f8602ae1a8
Since this post has dragged on long enough, I’ll end it here, if anyone has questions on the teams feel free to reach out! Just about all the non 252/252 spreads are designed to do something (credit to N10sit for a lot of them). I’m happy to go into a lot more detail on the teams if there’s interest.
Figured I’d do a team dump from my DPL7 DUU run to help people with some DUU teams and try to raise the quality of play on the ladder. Unfortunately these teams probably won’t be legal once the April tier shifts go into effect, but that’s the nature of DUU.
First wanna give a couple shoutouts, first to everyone on the Ghosters for a great tour, and especially to Kylecole for drafting/practicing with me. Also a huge shoutout to Enzonana, while Enzo didn’t play in the tour they were the best teammate possible, always down for test games and bringing up your spirit when Enzo destroyed you in those test games. Every team needs someone like Enzo, glad he was on ours. Also shoutout to Shrop, because without including me on his DPL Power Rankings, I don’t think I would have gotten drafted.
I was extremely happy with how my DPL run went, going 4-1. I’d wager I spent more time/effort than any other player in DPL for prepping, and I’m super glad that showed in the results.
Now that the sappy part is out of the way, onto DUU:
Ultimately I think the meta is super centered around two types of teams: set-up or weather. My goal on every team was to bring enough spread offense to smash set up and to have a playable matchup against all types of weather - I often accomplished both by using choice specs indeedee, which I think I was the only player to use (Demantoid brought a scarf version), and I think that other players really underrated how effective it is. In my opinion Psyspam is EXTREMELY powerful in the current meta, and every team needs to be prepped for it with either 1 good psychic resist + bulu or 2 good psychic resists.
I also loved bringing my own weather, as it’s a great form of instant offense, as long as you have answers for the common counters like Weezing-g and TR.
Lastly I think roar and other phazing moves are extremely useful in underdeveloped metas, especially ones that have a lot of set-up. They allow you to get out of tough spots, while also preventing TR which was necessary on some teams as I didn’t bring a lot of bulk most of the time.
Onto the teams:
W1 vs AtmosphereVGC: L
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesuu-1285858069
Team: https://pokepast.es/35bbb6ba95632058
As it was week 1, I figured I would bring basically a standard meta team with a FO combo of Toise + Zera, two set up mons in Kommo and Volcarona, and two glue mons in Bulu + Krook. I think this team is very strong, but it can be quite passive until you’ve set up either Kommo or Volcarona. In the match, I really messed up by faking out the Zera instead of the Volcarona, and ultimately that cost me the game. Psychic is better than bug buzz on Volcarona in my opinion, since it gives volcarona something to hit things like Naganadel and Kommo. It does make you weaker to Victini, but you’re not beating a full health Victini with Volcarona anyway. Gotta give props where it’s deserved, Atmosphere outplayed me and the Weezing-g was perfectly built.
W2 vs Kaori: W
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesuu-1290699653
Team: https://pokepast.es/b9452166b26d1182
Love this team. Rain Psyspam is such a fun combo that puts a ton of pressure on the opponent. The team constantly forces the opponent to bring in their AV Bulu, but with Ferrothorn, Tornadus, Seismitoad each able to roll a OHKO, it’s easy to eliminate. If they don’t have an AV Bulu? Then they get overrun very quickly. In the match I’m super glad I scouted for superpower Scizor on t1, as Ferro is my main AV Kyurem counter. Once I was able to get into a strong offensive position, the pieces started falling and I was able to get my first win.
W3 vs Demantoid: W
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesuu-1294780119
Team: https://pokepast.es/2e35bc48d845bf11
Going into this week, It had become apparent Zeraora was the best Pokémon in the tier and included on almost all teams. So I wanted to put a spin on the typical AV Zera and went with a coaching version and surrounded it with bulky physical attackers. This team is really versatile, you don’t need coaching by any means. Scarf Naganadel was a great way of countering opposing Bulu & Naganadel, while also being able to run a fire move to deal with steel mons like scizor. It also works as a great t-spikes absorber, which a bulky team like this needs to not slowly lose to toxic spikes. The match went as well as I could have asked, I made a nice read to catch Blastoise on the switch in, and scarf Naga was able to catch my opponent by surprise and take out their wincon.
W4 vs Human: W
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesuu-1301279627
Team: https://pokepast.es/acae46809decd8a6
Going into this week I noticed that Human had been using weather teams without strong Weezing-g counters, so I figured it was time to bring my own Weezing-g team. That ended up working out great, as that exact situation ended up occurring. Originally I wanted to bring multiple fake out mons like Scrafty and Toise, but when you’re already running an offensive dud like Weezing, there isn’t enough room for more passive mons. So I instead went with multiple Intimidators and snarl users, which could force switches/slow down the game if needed, but also can bring offense. The team is solid enough, but like all Weezing teams I feel like it can win or lose any game, and it’s very reliant on getting Kommo set up.
W5 vs SMB: W
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesuu-1305903524
Team: https://pokepast.es/c7ef70f8602ae1a8
I had wanted to bring a sun team all tour since there’s not much in the tier to prevent Venusaur sleeping mons (I do think teams should find room for some goggles mons personally), and decided this was the week for it. I had seen SMB had brought Gigalith TR a few times already, and took a gamble that they wouldn’t bring it again, which paid off. I love scarf Victini on this team, as it’s ability makes Sleep Powder even more accurate, and V-create in Sun deletes stuff. (Victini is one of the top 5 mons in the tier imo, 252 att v-create almost always kos Zera, and it’s versatility is unmatched). I decided for Victini over Charizard as Victini isn’t as reliant on the sun, Victini is a lot more flexible. This did make me weak to Volcarona + Toise, but I decided I could just play carefully if that matchup occurred. In the match I ended up getting put in a hole by a banded Arcanine that took my by surprise, but with a very fortunate roar roll to bring in Bulu, I was put in a great position to climb back, and ended up getting the win. (I roared the Blastoise cause I thought the Blastoise was going to roar my Ninetales, and thus I would go first).
Since this post has dragged on long enough, I’ll end it here, if anyone has questions on the teams feel free to reach out! Just about all the non 252/252 spreads are designed to do something (credit to N10sit for a lot of them). I’m happy to go into a lot more detail on the teams if there’s interest.
Last edited:
Hello! We have some news to announce. Both Memoric and Yuichi have decided to step down from the DUU VR council, citing more important things needing done in their "real lives" (whatever that is). I really appreciate the work both of you have done, thanks so much. In their wake, I've decided to add The_Bandit to the DUU VR council! A newer user who has worked really hard at DOU and DUU and had a fantastic DPL playing DUU, I am super excited to have them aboard. Here are our votes on the most recent shifts (and wartortle)
Cresselia: NEW -> Tier ???:
Dracozolt: NEW -> Tier ???:
Excadrill: NEW -> Tier ???:
Moltres-Galar: NEW -> Tier ???:
Wartortle: UR -> Tier ???:
Results
Cresselia: NEW -> Tier 2
Dracozolt: NEW -> Tier 4
Excadrill: NEW -> Tier 3
Moltres-Galar: NEW -> Tier 5
Wartortle: UR -> Tier 3
Cresselia: NEW -> Tier ???:
- N10sit: One. So many soft and half checks exist that cress beats once the cress has the board state, whether with a calm mind or just speed + moonblast, or t wave, etc. Look at this fucking calc: 252 SpA Life Orb Spectrier Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 198-234 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery you literally 1v1 the strongest ghost type in the format if you get a cm up and that is not hard to do with mons like wartortle and scrafty. The singular best cress check is the move toxic.
- Nido-Rus: 2, I can see this being 1 but right now there’s a lot of stuff that hits it hard (spectier, scrafty, sandmons) and/or keeps it from setting up/recovering reliably. Still most likely very good.
- Lord death man: 2, its sand MU is less than ideal which makes me say it’s not 1 (it can body rain with Utility Umbrella)
- Demantoid: 2. Lack of immediate pressure makes it hard for cress to be 1 for me
- Actuarily: 2. A great wincon, but anyone running taunt/toxic/roar/haze can shut it down. Moonlight in sand/rain isn’t ideal, and rest sets can’t touch darks. Arguably the most reliable TR setter, but isn’t very offensive once it sets TR.
Dracozolt: NEW -> Tier ???:
- N10sit: 4. No zeraora is big for this mon but it kind of sucks in most of the matchups i have used it in so far like i never get to click bolt beak but maybe im just bad
- Nido-Rus: 4. Big dracozolt fan, can see this in 3 but it often ends up being pretty frail. Harder to switch into things than exca, which says a lot
- Lord death man: 3
- Demantoid: 4. More dependent on sand than drill
- Actuarily: 3 hits like an absolute truck in sand/TW. Definitely can be difficult to position since you really want to run choice band. Excadrill being in the tier gives it both competition on sand teams and a great counter.
Excadrill: NEW -> Tier ???:
- N10sit: 3
- Nido-Rus: 3. Premier sand mon, good but also weak to common mons.
- Lord death man: 3
- Demantoid: 3. Sand seems good
- Actuarily: 3. Checks a lot of stuff in sand & can be a sand check, but it can be hard to bring in vs rain & sun. LO jolly iron head is also a 43% roll to OHKO 248hp Bulu, which it really wishes was a 100% ko
Moltres-Galar: NEW -> Tier ???:
- N10sit: 5
- Nido-Rus: 4 Very meta dependent, can probably be pretty threatening if fiery wrath matches up well against common threats. Walling and 100% beating spectrier is nice.
- Lord death man: 4? This mon is hard to place honestly.
- Demantoid: 5. Its stats don’t really let it do what it wants
- Actuarily: 5. Good check to Spectrier/Scrafty/Psyspam but it’s set up sets are very underwhelming.
Wartortle: UR -> Tier ???:
- N10sit: 3. Fake out and follow me are broken moves regardless of what the mon is. I might genuinely put squirtle in 5 if we didnt have wartortle.
- Nido-Rus: 4 Possibly 3, have to see how well setup teams can still work. Zeraora gone and sand returning isn’t too good for setup, and wartortle having slower fake out and weaker flip turn than stoise doesn’t help
- Lord death man: 3.
- Demantoid: 3. Just a worse toise
- Actuarily: 4. There’s enough spread attackers that it can be deadweight in a lot of matchups. It’s not too much weaker than Toise, but it’s lack of an item hurts. Meta is a lot stronger than IOA DUU
Results
Cresselia: NEW -> Tier 2
Dracozolt: NEW -> Tier 4
Excadrill: NEW -> Tier 3
Moltres-Galar: NEW -> Tier 5
Wartortle: UR -> Tier 3
Here's a team I wanna drop.
Victini + Tapu Bulu
This team started with Victini + Tapu Bulu. This quite interested me due to their good synergy as Victini can take out the Steel and Poison types that Bulu struggles with, while Bulu helps with the Water, Rock, and Dark types. The Victini spread OHKO's Bulu with Blue Flare, while the Bulu spread is standard. The third slot goes to Naganadel due to being able to take care of the Dragons that this pair struggles with, while also being a great TW setter for speed control. The fourth slot goes to the one and only Scizor, who Bullet Punches the Fairies and has good Utility in U-turn. The 5th slot went to Primarina due to being the destructive fire killer, and the final slot goes to Excadrill, the dominant sand killer
[/SPOILER]
[Edit thx for noticing that the replay wasn't saved t3ch thieves]
Victini + Tapu Bulu
This team started with Victini + Tapu Bulu. This quite interested me due to their good synergy as Victini can take out the Steel and Poison types that Bulu struggles with, while Bulu helps with the Water, Rock, and Dark types. The Victini spread OHKO's Bulu with Blue Flare, while the Bulu spread is standard. The third slot goes to Naganadel due to being able to take care of the Dragons that this pair struggles with, while also being a great TW setter for speed control. The fourth slot goes to the one and only Scizor, who Bullet Punches the Fairies and has good Utility in U-turn. The 5th slot went to Primarina due to being the destructive fire killer, and the final slot goes to Excadrill, the dominant sand killer
[/SPOILER]
164 SpA Life Orb Victini Blue Flare vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 299-354 (100.6 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 250-296 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Excadrill High Horsepower vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dracozolt: 390-458 (121.4 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 250-296 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Excadrill High Horsepower vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dracozolt: 390-458 (121.4 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Last edited:
Crunchman
Banned deucer.
The second link doesn't seem to be saved as a replay, unfortunately.
hello, i have some nominations i've been sitting on for a bit.
Primarina 4 > 3 and Sylveon 3 > 4. Extremely similar mons except Primarina is mostly better once you get past the weaker spread move - both mon's best sets are specs, followed distantly by sub sets (throat spray, cm, whatever). Despite the 2 additional weaknesses, they both generally lose to the same mons (Dracozolt, Bulu, Naganadel) but the extra resists help Primarina be a more reliable answer to things like rain teams and Volcarona, while also making it harder to wall in general.
Thundurus-Incarnate 2 > 3. It's just not on the level of anything in 2. Sand having two sweepers immune to t-wave means it has a horrifically bad MU vs the archetype (ironically while Therian has a pretty strong one) and it just isn't able to contribute as much as Tornadus in a lot of games right now.
Dracozolt 4 > 3 (or maybe 2). I genuinely believe this is the best mon on sand. It has singlehandledly fueled the viability of niche unranked picks like Rhydon and Raichu while also propping up mons that I would otherwise suggest be unranked like Seismitoad, Gastrodon, and Thundurus-Therian.
I also believe sand semi-room (often featuring Victini) is the strongest archetype out there right now, and Dracozolt is easier to slot into semi-room builds than Excadrill, and so Dracozolt should be ranked at least as high as Exca on those grounds.
Primarina 4 > 3 and Sylveon 3 > 4. Extremely similar mons except Primarina is mostly better once you get past the weaker spread move - both mon's best sets are specs, followed distantly by sub sets (throat spray, cm, whatever). Despite the 2 additional weaknesses, they both generally lose to the same mons (Dracozolt, Bulu, Naganadel) but the extra resists help Primarina be a more reliable answer to things like rain teams and Volcarona, while also making it harder to wall in general.
Thundurus-Incarnate 2 > 3. It's just not on the level of anything in 2. Sand having two sweepers immune to t-wave means it has a horrifically bad MU vs the archetype (ironically while Therian has a pretty strong one) and it just isn't able to contribute as much as Tornadus in a lot of games right now.
Dracozolt 4 > 3 (or maybe 2). I genuinely believe this is the best mon on sand. It has singlehandledly fueled the viability of niche unranked picks like Rhydon and Raichu while also propping up mons that I would otherwise suggest be unranked like Seismitoad, Gastrodon, and Thundurus-Therian.
I also believe sand semi-room (often featuring Victini) is the strongest archetype out there right now, and Dracozolt is easier to slot into semi-room builds than Excadrill, and so Dracozolt should be ranked at least as high as Exca on those grounds.
as promised, I'm posting the team I used to ladder for DUULT. feel free to cop
This team was adapted from n10sit's Regirock team which was posted on the DOU Discord at the time when I discovered that DUULT had a fat cash prize and was asking around for squads. As n10siT said, somebody needed to improve the concept; through a series of unfortunate events, which include pondering the thought that Regirock may be indeed just garbage and being exposed by ladder sand multiple times, the team has become the NP Spectrier SemiTR team that you are seeing right now.
I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain what the combination NP Spectrier + Wartortle does! They act as one of the team's primary wincons and is a pretty reliable way of just ending any kind of discussion with your opponent. Spectrier, within the context of the team's SemiTR composition, is the team's sole member with a Speed higher than 300 (raw), though the fact that it essentially outruns the entire unboosted metagame is pretty nice. This lack of a real fast mode outside of Spectrier is made up by the Wartortle being able to cover for teammates with FM and Fake Out, which come in handy for relieving the team from pressure.
Gigalith and Victini serve as the team's TR mode. Gigalith is Regirock except it actually hits hard and doesn't get smashed by any kind of special attack thanks to the sand Special Defense boost; Victini, meanwhile is an offensive setter that I can simply describe as reliable, because it both hits hard enough and also constantly survives just the right amount of hits. Both, in particular, were selected to relieve myself of the matchups against tailwind HO and psyspam... in an ideal world, but on the ladder they're nice for telling sun teams to not bother. Them being slow is also really nice for covering Spectrier in the early-game Trick Room team matchup.
Tapu Bulu and Krookodile are there because they beat stuff. AV Tapu Bulu lives everything and kills everything in the ladder, which makes it a really reliable guy; more importantly, it brings Grass Terrain, which is nice for psyspam. Krookodile is there not only to serve as overkill for the psyspam matchup but also to actually make sure the team actually has any semblance of a sand match-up. I chose to add Roar instead of Stealth Rock because I like just phazing out any possible big threats; I didn't feel that I need Stealth Rock as it didn't really fit the team's tempo, and thus Roar utility in denying opponent's particular boards was more appealing. Intimidate is generally really nifty.
This team got me the first seed for DUULT under the alt DUULTG SERA MAIN. Gigalith is called SKARNER because he's Seraphine's hoverboard; perhaps the team can fill in for K/DA, but who's who is up for interpretation.
This team was adapted from n10sit's Regirock team which was posted on the DOU Discord at the time when I discovered that DUULT had a fat cash prize and was asking around for squads. As n10siT said, somebody needed to improve the concept; through a series of unfortunate events, which include pondering the thought that Regirock may be indeed just garbage and being exposed by ladder sand multiple times, the team has become the NP Spectrier SemiTR team that you are seeing right now.
I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain what the combination NP Spectrier + Wartortle does! They act as one of the team's primary wincons and is a pretty reliable way of just ending any kind of discussion with your opponent. Spectrier, within the context of the team's SemiTR composition, is the team's sole member with a Speed higher than 300 (raw), though the fact that it essentially outruns the entire unboosted metagame is pretty nice. This lack of a real fast mode outside of Spectrier is made up by the Wartortle being able to cover for teammates with FM and Fake Out, which come in handy for relieving the team from pressure.
Gigalith and Victini serve as the team's TR mode. Gigalith is Regirock except it actually hits hard and doesn't get smashed by any kind of special attack thanks to the sand Special Defense boost; Victini, meanwhile is an offensive setter that I can simply describe as reliable, because it both hits hard enough and also constantly survives just the right amount of hits. Both, in particular, were selected to relieve myself of the matchups against tailwind HO and psyspam... in an ideal world, but on the ladder they're nice for telling sun teams to not bother. Them being slow is also really nice for covering Spectrier in the early-game Trick Room team matchup.
Tapu Bulu and Krookodile are there because they beat stuff. AV Tapu Bulu lives everything and kills everything in the ladder, which makes it a really reliable guy; more importantly, it brings Grass Terrain, which is nice for psyspam. Krookodile is there not only to serve as overkill for the psyspam matchup but also to actually make sure the team actually has any semblance of a sand match-up. I chose to add Roar instead of Stealth Rock because I like just phazing out any possible big threats; I didn't feel that I need Stealth Rock as it didn't really fit the team's tempo, and thus Roar utility in denying opponent's particular boards was more appealing. Intimidate is generally really nifty.
This team got me the first seed for DUULT under the alt DUULTG SERA MAIN. Gigalith is called SKARNER because he's Seraphine's hoverboard; perhaps the team can fill in for K/DA, but who's who is up for interpretation.
Some nominations after the DUU ladder tour:
Tier 4-> Tier 3
Krookodile checks so many threats in one slot. It’s good into Psyspam, checks sand, can set rocks, is a good intimidator, all while having good all around stats and solid offense. Has some competition from Scrafty as they’re both dark type intimidators, but Krook has enough going for it to set it apart.
Tier 4-> Tier 2
Togekiss is the superior redirector in the format. Wartortle and others like Raichu, Mr. Mime, etc. all find themselves deadweight in certain matchups, which Togekiss never does. It’s better bulk, the ability to set tailwind, counter common threats like Tapu Bulu and Kommo, and having a 57% chance of flinching on air slash makes it one of the best Pokémon in the meta. It also pairs really well with a lot of top threats such as Spectrier and choice specs Indeedee.
Tier 3-> Tier 2.
Victini is the most versatile Pokémon in the format while also being the best fire type. There’s just so many great sets it can run, from Scarf to TR setter to a weakness policy sweeper to Choice Band, the list feels endless. It’s amazing movepool let’s it pick what it wants to check, and ultimately v-create deletes stuff.
Tier 4-> Tier 3Krookodile checks so many threats in one slot. It’s good into Psyspam, checks sand, can set rocks, is a good intimidator, all while having good all around stats and solid offense. Has some competition from Scrafty as they’re both dark type intimidators, but Krook has enough going for it to set it apart.
Tier 4-> Tier 2Togekiss is the superior redirector in the format. Wartortle and others like Raichu, Mr. Mime, etc. all find themselves deadweight in certain matchups, which Togekiss never does. It’s better bulk, the ability to set tailwind, counter common threats like Tapu Bulu and Kommo, and having a 57% chance of flinching on air slash makes it one of the best Pokémon in the meta. It also pairs really well with a lot of top threats such as Spectrier and choice specs Indeedee.
Tier 3-> Tier 2.Victini is the most versatile Pokémon in the format while also being the best fire type. There’s just so many great sets it can run, from Scarf to TR setter to a weakness policy sweeper to Choice Band, the list feels endless. It’s amazing movepool let’s it pick what it wants to check, and ultimately v-create deletes stuff.
Hello! We've decided to redo the VR because it was kind of old and we just completed DUU Ladder Tour. We simply voted on every Pokemon currently on the VR, as well as the new additions (Entei (June), Celesteela, Comfey, Dusclops, Glastrier). See the voting below and the newly updated VR on the 3rd post in this thread.
| Pokemon | Previous tier | n10siT | lord death man | Demantoid | Actuarily | Nido-Rus | Result |
| Entei | NEW | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 |
| Celesteela | NEW | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Comfey | NEW | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 |
| Dusclops | NEW | 5 | UR | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 |
| Glastrier | NEW | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 |
| Spectrier | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Tapu Bulu | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Cresselia | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Kyurem | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Naganadel | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Scrafty | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Thundurus-Incarnate | 2 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Volcarona | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 2 |
| Aegislash | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Excadrill | 3 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Gigalith | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Indeedee-Male | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Kommo-o | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Lurantis | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Politoed | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Sylveon | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Tornadus-Incarnate | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Victini | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 2 |
| Wartortle | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Arcanine | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Azumarill | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Blacephalon | 4 | UR | UR | UR | 5 | UR | UR |
| Chansey | 4 | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Dracozolt | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Ferrothorn | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 |
| Krookodile | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Ludicolo | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 |
| Ninetales | 4 | UR | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Primarina | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 |
| Scizor | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Suicune | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 |
| Terrakion | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Togekiss | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 3 |
| Venusaur | 4 | UR | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 |
| Alakazam | 5 | UR | UR | UR | 5 | UR | UR |
| Araquanid | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 |
| Blaziken | 5 | UR | UR | 5 | UR | UR | UR |
| Bronzong | 5 | 5 | UR | UR | UR | 5 | UR |
| Buzzwole | 5 | UR | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | UR |
| Charizard | 5 | UR | UR | UR | 4 | 4 | UR |
| Cinderace | 5 | UR | UR | UR | 5 | UR | UR |
| Corviknight | 5 | UR | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 |
| Clefairy | 5 | 5 | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Dragonite | 5 | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | UR | UR |
| Gastrodon | 5 | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Hydreigon | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 |
| Latias | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Latios | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Marowak-Alola | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Milotic | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Mimikyu | 5 | 5 | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Moltres-Galar | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| Ninetales-Alola | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Pheromosa | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 |
| Regidrago | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 |
| Seismitoad | 5 | 5 | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Thundurus-Therian | 5 | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | UR | UR |
| Toxapex | 5 | UR | UR | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| Weezing-Galar | 5 | 5 | UR | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 |
| Zarude | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 |
doing some VR nominations, we got some good DUU development in thanks to jcbc's team tour, and i think that a couple things need to change
Celesteela 3 -> 1
this pokemon is broken, its bulk is sooooo good and it clicks leech seed on everything. Its got good attacking options like Heavy Slam and fits on so many different kinds of teams. its actually surpassed bulu as being the best glue mon in the format i think celesteela go brrrrr
Tapu Bulu 1 -> 2
this may be a little controversial but i think steelas rise AND the rise of the things that beat steela (i.e. fire types) has dropped tapu bulu's viability enough to move it down. it will probably be the best mon in 2, but it feels closer to 2 than 1 to me, given the current meta.
idk if im really nomming these to 5 or just saying maybe they could be viable, but Thundurus-T and Xurkitree might be due some exploration. I think offensive electrics could be helpful on current teams. its just tough because steela and sand go together really well and tapu bulu is still very prominent so you still find tough matchups.
we'll probably vote on these next week, after we make sure no tiering changes take place in september.
Celesteela 3 -> 1
this pokemon is broken, its bulk is sooooo good and it clicks leech seed on everything. Its got good attacking options like Heavy Slam and fits on so many different kinds of teams. its actually surpassed bulu as being the best glue mon in the format i think celesteela go brrrrr
Tapu Bulu 1 -> 2
this may be a little controversial but i think steelas rise AND the rise of the things that beat steela (i.e. fire types) has dropped tapu bulu's viability enough to move it down. it will probably be the best mon in 2, but it feels closer to 2 than 1 to me, given the current meta.
idk if im really nomming these to 5 or just saying maybe they could be viable, but Thundurus-T and Xurkitree might be due some exploration. I think offensive electrics could be helpful on current teams. its just tough because steela and sand go together really well and tapu bulu is still very prominent so you still find tough matchups.
we'll probably vote on these next week, after we make sure no tiering changes take place in september.
Hey everyone.
I don't usually do this so it will be a quick and easy post, but I have built several teams for the multitier tour and I would like to share them.
R1 vs Itchyy
G1:
G2:
G3:
R2: vs Crying (Not played)
This week, although I didn't play against Crying, I prepared this team, which I ended up playing in the final against Umbry.
R3: vs SuperEpicAmpharos (Not played)
This week, I neither played nor built any team that would convince me.
Final: vs Umbry and n10sit
Umbry:
G1: (Small change with respect to the R2 team)
G2:
This team is possibly the most fun I have ever build, and with this team I reached the top 1 of the DUU Ladder.
n10sit:
G1: (Same team as R1)
G2:
Tie Break: JRL vs Umbry vs Actuarily
Umbry:
Actuarily:
In addition to these teams, I built several teams that I decided not to use, because these teams were very bad or did not convince me. Still, I want to leave them in case they can be of help to someone :)
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Finally, I want to thank my friends from the Spanish Army, SMB and txitxas for helping me with tests, tips and help in the build.
(Btw sorry for my English)
I don't usually do this so it will be a quick and easy post, but I have built several teams for the multitier tour and I would like to share them.
R1 vs Itchyy
G1:
G2:
G3:
R2: vs Crying (Not played)
This week, although I didn't play against Crying, I prepared this team, which I ended up playing in the final against Umbry.
R3: vs SuperEpicAmpharos (Not played)
This week, I neither played nor built any team that would convince me.
Final: vs Umbry and n10sit
Umbry:
G1:
(Small change with respect to the R2 team)G2:
This team is possibly the most fun I have ever build, and with this team I reached the top 1 of the DUU Ladder.
n10sit:
G1:
(Same team as R1)G2:
Tie Break: JRL vs Umbry vs Actuarily
Umbry:
Actuarily:
In addition to these teams, I built several teams that I decided not to use, because these teams were very bad or did not convince me. Still, I want to leave them in case they can be of help to someone :)
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Finally, I want to thank my friends from the Spanish Army, SMB and txitxas for helping me with tests, tips and help in the build.
(Btw sorry for my English)
Small VR update :)
Celesteela: Tier 3 -> Tier 1
Tapu Bulu: Tier 1 -> Tier 2
Thundurus-Therian: UR -> Tier 5
Xurkitree: UR -> Tier 5
Results:
Celesteela: Tier 3 - > Tier 1
Tapu Bulu: Tier 1 -> Tier 2
Thundurus-Therian: UR -> Tier 5
Celesteela: Tier 3 -> Tier 1
- N10sit: my nom
- Lord death man: Yes, it’s meta defining and literally has no hard answers, only checks. Heavy Slam means it does really solid damage vs 80% of the meta with minimal investment, it has great coverage options for the rare mon that can stand up to Heavy Slam, and then after all of that it could actually just be a Meteor Beam set and your rare Celesteela check is dead. All while providing amazing defensive utility.
- Nido-Rus: 1, premier defensive backbone mon that also can also run a very threatening offensive meteor beam set. Most teams have very few ways of breaking through this.
- Demantoid: 1. Walls a large portion of the meta while having several different set options. Beast Boost can let it win even against its checks.
- Actuarily: 2. The leech seed set can wall teams that aren’t prepared for it, but a team with checks can just switch them in and it can’t punish the switchins because it’s so unthreatening. It can also get run over quickly or used as set up fodder by offensive teams. It had a lot of success recently, but I think now that teams plan to have Celesteela checks, it becomes much easier to deal with.
Tapu Bulu: Tier 1 -> Tier 2
- N10sit: my nom
- Lord death man: Yes, even before Celesteela I was starting to feel like it was on the same level as Indeedee, but Celesteela made it impossible to consider this 1.
- Nido-Rus: Yeah, just ends up being walled and beaten by too much lately. Still great into sand, but definitely not tier 1 material
- Demantoid: 2. It just loses to a lot of the common mons in the meta right now.
- Actuarily: 2. Adding Cresselia, Celesteela, and even Moltres-g means there’s a lot more answers to Psyspam, so Bulu is no longer required as a check.
Thundurus-Therian: UR -> Tier 5
- N10sit: my nom
- Lord death man: Yes, I’ve liked Thundy-T for a while and its gotten even better recently. It has the coverage to threaten almost the whole metagame and the right set of resists and immunities, even if it is sort of frail.
- Nido-Rus: A very iffy 5 since there are still better options to run in rain, but it’s usable enough with its niche as a strong, fast, electric immune thunder abuser on rain.
- Demantoid: Yes, has good coverage and speed for the current meta.
- Actuarily: 4. Great coverage that lets it pick who it wants to beat, can run a few different sets like AV/scarf/boots
Xurkitree: UR -> Tier 5
- N10sit: my nom
- Lord death man: Stay UR I think, I’d need to see this more but I’m not convinced its worth using over either Thundurus or even Dracozolt out of sand.
- Nido-Rus: Also UR, hits hard but bad mono-typing and bad speed tier make it hard to justify.
- Demantoid: No, lower speed than other electrics hurts it a lot. Also has worse coverage for hitting the current threats.
- Actuarily: UR, needs too much speed control/redirection support to do a lot of damage, and at that point you’d rather use other mons.
Results:
Celesteela: Tier 3 - > Tier 1
Tapu Bulu: Tier 1 -> Tier 2
Thundurus-Therian: UR -> Tier 5
Naganadel 2 > 1. This is better than legitimately everything in tier 2 except maybe Tornadus-I (and someone could easily make the case that Torn is tier 1) and Victini. It hits most of the tier very hard between Draco Meteor / Sludge Bomb / Fire Blast and gets a speed boost when it kills something, which can make it difficult to revenge kill (unless it dropped a Draco Meteor and had to switch out).
It can also run some interesting/weird sets like scarf, nasty plot, or assault vest, but I don't think those are really why it is as good as it is right now.
edit
Omastar UR > 5. its better than ludicolo
It can also run some interesting/weird sets like scarf, nasty plot, or assault vest, but I don't think those are really why it is as good as it is right now.
edit
Omastar UR > 5. its better than ludicolo
Last edited:
So i'm not very good at competitive but after thinking to myself on how i always hear about sun/rain/sand teams but never Hail teams,, i tried building one and found myself in doubles UU. i was then very surprised at how effective this team was at least in my pretty low ranks`. and wanted some advice on how to maybe further hone and improve upon this team. thanks and sorry if this is the wrong forum for this!
https://pokepast.es/6d026954dc849df2
https://pokepast.es/6d026954dc849df2
Nice team, looks like you’re going the mono-ice route. Hail doesn’t need to be mono-ice by any means (it’s definitely better with other types mixed in), but if you want to stick with just ice types that’s fun too. I’d recommend adding a couple of the most potent ice sweepers (arctozolt and Kyurem), and going with a hyper offense team like this: https://pokepast.es/7d3dee4d036796b8
If you want to go hail with other types, perhaps try something like this: https://pokepast.es/b9b7efc67a00fce3
The first team seems intresting, ditching the tanky Walrein defintley makes this a "go fast or die" team
as for the second group, i was always under the assumption you build weather teams around pokemon who benefit from it(swift swim/hydration/dry skin for rain, for example. ) i might be too underexperienced to see how hail is giving this team the advantage. Could you maybe say a word or two to give me a hint?
You’re correct, you want to build weather teams around Pokémon who benefit from it, however you don’t want to use only Pokémon that benefit from it. Using Pokémon with only one type leaves you very vulnerable, for instance, with a mono-ice DUU team, if you play against a Gigalith in Trick Room, it will just click rock slide 4 times and you’ll lose, which is why you need multiple typings.
The best weather teams do a good job of taking advantage of the weather abusers, and surrounding them with Pokémon that compliment those abusers. Take the doubles OU hail sample by qsns: https://pokepast.es/a81064716b711223
This team uses aurora veil to add bulk to otherwise offensive Pokémon, and Kyurem’s blizzard beats Pokémon that Landorus and Urshifu struggle with (grass types/flying types). Meanwhile Kyurem struggles against fire, steel, and rock types, which Landorus and Urshifu excel at beating. So these three compliment each other extremely well.
Also, often Kyurem is used as a hail abuser because it has the hardest hitting blizzard (outside of Ubers Pokémon). You can use Pokémon with the ability slush rush on hail, but unfortunately none of them have high special attack to be able to take advantage of a spread move like Blizzard. Generally weather attackers want to have powerful spread moves to inflict maximum damage to both opponents (Kingdra’s muddy water in rain and Charizard’s heat wave in sun are two prime examples).
If you have any other questions, feel free to dm me or ask in the smogon doubles room on Pokémon Showdown.
I came to play today and saw that Ninetails alola and celestia have been moved to OU, what other pokemon were transfered?
- Status