Metagame Doubles UU

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Sorry for triple posting

I'm going to dump some teams here, hopefully it will be helpful. I want to be clear though, build your own stuff if you can. The meta won't go anywhere if everyone just uses what me and lord death man say is good lol

https://pokepast.es/36a358757062277b - Ninetales Hydreigon offense

https://pokepast.es/03ebbcb1cb68f5b3 - D Dance Haxorus offense

https://pokepast.es/7e6c54ded51e9255 - Frosmoth offense

https://pokepast.es/6fee1e91995bfa5b - CM/Acid Armor Alcremie


https://pokepast.es/bde03c5d0bced52f - lord death man NP Rotom-H

https://pokepast.es/44e27feeb4d2be4f - lord deaht man sun
 
Last edited:

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
We have a long list of changes thanks to the DLC:

Weezing-Galar moved from DUU to DOU
Indeedee moved from DUU to DOU
Rillaboom moved from DUU to DOU
Porygon2 moved from DUU to DOU
Cinderace moved from DUU to DOU

Blissey moved from DOU to DUU
Bouffalant moved from DOU to DUU
Clawitzer moved from DOU to DUU
Dedenne moved from DOU to DUU
Dragalge moved from DOU to DUU
Druddigon moved from DOU to DUU
Dunsparce moved from DOU to DUU
Emolga moved from DOU to DUU
Exeggutor moved from DOU to DUU
Exeggutor-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Exploud moved from DOU to DUU
Golduck moved from DOU to DUU
Grimmsnarl moved from DOU to DUU
Heracross moved from DOU to DUU
Kangaskhan moved from DOU to DUU
Klefki moved from DOU to DUU
Krookodile moved from DOU to DUU
Lickilicky moved from DOU to DUU
Lilligant moved from DOU to DUU
Lopunny moved from DOU to DUU
Ludicolo moved from DOU to DUU
Lurantis moved from DOU to DUU
Luxray moved from DOU to DUU
Lycanroc moved from DOU to DUU
Lycanroc-Dusk moved from DOU to DUU
Lycanroc-Midnight moved from DOU to DUU
Magnezone moved from DOU to DUU
Marowak moved from DOU to DUU
Mienshao moved from DOU to DUU
Miltank moved from DOU to DUU
Palossand moved from DOU to DUU
Pinsir moved from DOU to DUU
Poliwrath moved from DOU to DUU
Porygon-Z moved from DOU to DUU
Rotom-Wash moved from DOU to DUU
Sandslash moved from DOU to DUU
Sandslash-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Scolipede moved from DOU to DUU
Sharpedo moved from DOU to DUU
Skarmory moved from DOU to DUU
Slowbro moved from DOU to DUU
Slowbro-Galar moved from DOU to DUU
Slowking moved from DOU to DUU
Starmie moved from DOU to DUU
Stoutland moved from DOU to DUU
Talonflame moved from DOU to DUU
Tangrowth moved from DOU to DUU
Tauros moved from DOU to DUU
Tentacruel moved from DOU to DUU
Terrakion moved from DOU to DUU
Wigglytuff moved from DOU to DUU
Zoroark moved from DOU to DUU

On the rises: All 5 of the Pokemon leaving were very solid in DUU, Rillaboom quite possibly being a tier one mon in the short time it was here. I am a bit surprised by the Cinderace risse, but I believe it's just new toy syndrome because people think Protean is broken, and I expect to fall again at some point. The other 4, with the exception of maybe Porygon2, could stay DOU for a long time.

On the drops: I've bolded the relevant ones. Terrakion is a Pokemon that could be very very good in DUU, it has very solid matchups versus the dominant dark-types Hydreigon and to a lesser extent Bisharp. Talonflame has potential to be good, Rotom-Wash will definitely be good and adds another good water type to a format bloated with them, and Krookodile competes with Mamoswine very well. Lilligant adds a decent sun abuser, but I'm not sure how good sun is.

After the completion of the DUU tournament (we'll start when finals go up probably), we plan on redoing the entire VR. So much has changed in the past few months that it is necessary.
 

Memoric

quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur
is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
team dump / tour report, kinda! gonna be posting all of the teams i used in duu corona tour, as in all of them. i'll put the old ones with short descriptions in hide tags, and ill be featuring the ones i used in finals which i think are the two legit good ones



These two are pretty much the same team tbh, with different supporting casts. Both are trying to make use of the Keldeo Icy Wind + Assurance Bisharp combo to decimate something, with Rillaboom and Scarf Rotom-H complementing. Dynamic speed control seemed incredibly strong in an offensive, BW-esque meta like DUU so I tried to add as much of these as I can; my Keldeo and Intelleon had Icy Wind while my Scarf Rotom-H had Electroweb, both moves working great with what I was trying to do with Bisharp.

In terms of the specific flavor, double water double dark takes advantage of the best Pokemon in the tier at the time typestacking when used in conjunction with one another (the two Waters were strong individually, Bisharp was a demon, and Hydreigon was (is?) imo the best Pokemon in the tier); since the concept was offensive anyway, I just rolled with it and went with just overwhelming threats that attempt to eat hits. noi meanwhile takes advantage of Noivern's ability to set Tailwind relatively unopposed, though if I knew about Ribombee's worth at the time I would've used him. Mamoswine is in the comp as a general good Pokemon.

I used just noi for my Round 2 games vs tennisace; I would've used either for R1 but I got activity vs Pwndkthnx so lol
R2, G1 vs tennisace with double water double dark
R2, G2 vs tennisace with double water double dark



I made this team as a joke, but little did I know that these were the seeds of something truly sinister. The idea was, if sun is good in DOU, it surely must be good in DUU too, right? Whether or not I answered that question is a mystery, but nevertheless I did come up with the idea of abusing Choice Specs Solar Power Heliolisk in sun and Electric Terrain, thinking it probably killed everything. It does, but the comp itself had room for improvement. I never really worked on this team further though since I never considered using it in an actual tour game, but it did lay the foundation for what's to come.



big d cofag speed swap came up when I was testing with Nido-Rus and his Grassy Seed Cofag ended up impressing me; I genuinely thought it's a strong Pokemon in SemiRoom comps with Rillaboom. What gave the idea true life, though, was the very first instance of genius: Speed Swap Ribombee; while Ribombee was already strong in being able to check Hydreigon, Keldeo, Noivern, and Rillaboom by itself, doing so while being able to support in SemiRoom builds through Tailwind for the fast mode AND Speed Swap for the slow mode was very very epic. While Big D Cofag was a kindasorta threatening set-up attacker / supporter, it was still slow; instead of just leaving it self-reliant and clunky with TR, though, Speed Swap gave the team a kind of dynamism that made Cofag more usable a threat, which gives the team more dimension in its game. SemiRoom comps typically have more slow targets for Speed Swap too (in this case, Gigalith), so it's not a gimmick specific to Cofag but rather an actual, seriously intentioned support move.

I gave the paste to Nido-Rus; he used this six against shadowmonstr7 in R2.


Yeah I basically just wanted to use Rillaboom and Chansey since they're already good in DOU, might as well, and then Cofag + Ribombee was added because it's proven to be good with Rillaboom already. There's... not much to say other than I really was just adding Pokemon and if it made sense to me, then it made sense to me.

:blobshrug:



PsySpam. Started with the Psychic core, added Hydreigon for Speed control and beating Aegislash, added Togetic to eat hits, added Keldeo for beating Chansey and being Keldeo, and added Scarf Rotom-H to check stuff and be cool. Yeah it really doesn't get better than that lol; even the team names are lazy and meaningless so one can tell.

R3, G1 vs txitxas with psychic
R3, G2 vs txitxas with grass

I really somehow managed to not put much effort in my teams despite having a 2-week round with an extension to boot. I, yeah... :blobthinking:
Yeah I'll just with a disclaimer and say these teams aren't necessarily my best, considering I made the first team two hours before the game and the second was just a 4-mon skeleton prior to that. My play also left... a lot to be desired, so fair warning lol



I refuse to associate with a glue-eater like Thwackey anymore, but at the time it seemed like a sensible partnership—plot twist: it was not. I won't explain how I built this since one can easily see where I was going with this; instead, I'm just going to say that 5 Pokemon that can't threaten Aegislash and Mimikyu + Hydreigon is not one of my best ideas, though starting out with Thwackey hard capped this team's ceiling to the floor anyway. A bottom 3 team I ever brought in a serious tour in my career.



Contrary to the name, this team... proved to be brazier than I ever thought it would be. After I built thWACKey, I realized I still needed another team or else I would just get exposed; thankfully, I had the four-mon skelly of Ninetales / Heliolisk / Pincurchin / Vileplume in my builder, ready to be filled up and supported. I just went with the it, since I didn't have much in other ideas and I already knew how this style goes, anyway. I added Terrakion for the Bisharp match-up and put Sub as a 3rd move on it for fun, then I added Fling Liechi Weavile for fun too, considering Z Strats has that one stall team and all; there was no way I could fuck up getting a dynamic +2 on such a strong attacker... right? If you haven't watched the replays for this team, I really hope you just take my word for it.

This was around the time I was going around claiming to be a PU main (still am), and I only realized Pincurchin gets Rising Voltage because I kept getting exposed by it on the PU ladder. I also only realized that Heliolisk actually gets Rising Voltage as well when I connected the dots. I didn't realize it at the time, but this was actually the moment I stumbled upon one of the most demonic Pokemon in current DUU, and it was merely by chance. When I saw it do 59% to a Chansey, that's when the reality of my discovery actually hit me; I knew he had to make a finals appearance, for he might as well be the shock theraphy DUU needs.

Semis, G1 vs Z Strats with thWACKey
Semis, G2 vs Z Strats with garbage
Semis, G3 vs Z Strats with garbage

Of course, garbage was rather... unrefined still. Heliolisk impressed me though, so I went out and thought about the comp some more for Finals.

First off though, I wanna highlight a specific Pokemon which I used a lot that I feel is incredibly underrated and is probably a tier 2-ish, personally tier 1 mon fosho

Ribombee @ Focus Sash
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Pollen Puff
- Tailwind
- Sticky Web / Speed Swap

This guy is a constant when it comes to my DUU team ideas, thanks to being the best support Pokemon that offensive, slightly balance-y teams could ever ask for. The entire package of Speed, typing, ability, and moves makes it a quite a special Pokemon that can do pretty much anything relatively unopposed.

The high Speed, strong STAB coverage, and respectable Special Attack stat make it a threatening offensive check to threats like Keldeo, Hydreigon, Noivern, Terrakion, and Tangela, among others, and this is outside of the general "check anything as needed" thing that fast mon typically do. More notable is the speed control options on offer; with Speed being dynamic, having access to them on what is essentially the second-fastest Pokemon in the metagame (next to Talonflame) is quite a boon, as it's pretty much instant pressure.

Having both Tailwind and Sticky Web is great, as while immediate Speed control can be brazy, there are also times where the permanent Speed control on grounded Pokemon is preferred for the long haul (and you can always get away with both!). Speed Swap is a tried and true option on SemiRoom comps where the webs can't salvage the slow mons, as being able to extract use of them outside of TR with dynamic Speed can be a game changer; I've tried them with Pincurchin and Gigalith (pre-DLC) and they've bossed up. Fast Puff is also really strong for being able to push teammates out of KO range. All the while, Shield Dust is handy for letting this be virtually unstoppable at lead, among other applications of the ability.

It's a really strong fit on most teams simply due to how well it matches up to the metagame offensively as well as with most teams appreciating what it brings to the table. It only really has to watch out for Talonflame and Aegislash, two things that aren't the hardest in the world to check. I encourage DUU players to consider him more, he's definitely strong for sure and is the goat at exacerbating a team's offensive prowess.

Game 1 // sun hydrei cofag // Chromatica

+n10siT:
he told me he solved sun earlier
+n10siT: unfortunate that he might be right

This team is the final incarnation of a team composition first made as a joke and now since DLC-blessed and made evil. The main core of this is actually Pincurchin / Ninetales / Heliolisk; individually, Pincurchin and Ninetales simply enable Heliolisk, but together they let Heliolisk perform feats such as straight up 2HKOing a Chansey with Rising Voltage. Basically the job of Ninetales and Pincurchin is to come in on the field once and then extract as much value out of themselves as possible; having Terrain Extender and Heat Rock on both means I'm never pressed for time and I can actually destroy something with Heliolisk, more or less.

Pincurchin is good at being a TR check just by existing, but with a certain approach we can also add a random-ass TR mode to the team as well, allowing me to get more juice out of Pincurchin than I should. The starting trio also needs Speed control, as against opposing speed control (something like Talonflame or Hydreigon, maybe) I will find myself exposed. Also I kindasorta am bad versus Terrakion so more options against that is a plus. The combination of Ribombee and Cofagrigus solve these problems and more! While Ribombee checks Terrakion and Hydreigon, it also has Tailwind available; and its Speed Swap means I can activate Pincurchin to Rising Voltage some fool, among other targets... like Cofagrigus! Big D Cofagrigus is in general a good guy to have vs Terrakion, Talonflame, and even Bisharp lol; it has synergy with Electric Seed letting it do this job of taking on these physical attackers easier. Having TR and Iron D + BPress available is also just generally good as an alternate wincon, giving more dimension to the team in general.

This comp had a Vileplume in its two previous incarnations, but it's notably absent here. I felt that I didn't really need a Chloro user; one, I had Ribombee, which is more or less the same thing as speed demon that checks Hydreigon with Moonblast, and two, I would really prefer a Pokemon that consistently beats Aegislash. I did look at the Chlorophyll market, and at one point I had Lilligant here for fun, but really, having a Chloro mon wasn't much of a necessity. Instead, I opted to have Hydreigon, who was actually the best thing I never thought I wanted; while he beats Aegi reliably, he's also another Tailwind setter and a strong glue with all of its resistances and generally useful bulk. Having a Pokemon like this in a team full of hitters eases a lot of the pressure defensively, and on top of that he's really good at adding to the pile offensively; nothing less from what I consider to be a tier 1 Pokemon in the meta rn.

The team is obviously quite aggressive; while Ninetales and Pincurchin are "support" Pokemon in a sense, all they really need to do is get onto the field in a timely manner and then they basically become hitters ready to be sacked for momentum (it helps that they're both threatening in their own right). There's obviously the dynamic of balancing your board with the field conditions, though between Ribombee, Cofagrigus, and Hydreigon, this team is not the easiest to catch out of position. Use Heliolisk if it's time to bring the pain, though just pivoting around with it with VS early- to mid-game is fine as you activate your conditions. Overall, I really like this team, though if anything were changeable, Terrakion over Cofag could be ok in the sense that it's the less deranged pick.

Game 2 // max speed aegislash // E. Hero Fusion Monsters

I honestly don't know how I built this team exactly, as it felt like I had the first 5 Pokemon for step 1 then added a Tangela for fun. They do all somehow synergize with one another though, so that's nice!

Ribombee makes this comp really epic; the immediate Speed control is really dangerous with all these strong hitters, while a team of grounded Pokemon can be outpositioned and punished with Sticky Webs (as it did in the Game I used it in). It having a strong match-up vs a lot of things is generally good™ for offensive teams such as this, too. Aegislash and Hydreigon is a tried and true core, Terrakion is a tier 1 Pokemon rn, and Gyarados is decent. Tangela is there for no reason, redirecting stuff I want redirected, and switching in on Talonflame (no, really). This team is basically just goodstuffs, but the epicness comes in the sets.

As one can see in the title, it's max Speed Aegislash; if you haven't checked the import yet, it's 252 Spe Hasty Aegislash, with Close Combat. While this may seem opposite to general sensibilities when it comes to Aegislash, there are reasons for this. First, from personal experience running Aegislash all these years, I have come to the conclusion that slow Aegislash is hot garbage as trying to tank and spank often ends in pain and disappointment. Second, it's really epic with Sticky Web, with max Speed outrunning webbed 108s. Third, and most importantly, it outruns Adamant Bisharp by one point, and you'd have to be deranged to Sucker Punch an Aegislash without speed control; I really value getting this surprise KO, especially since it's for finals, it's for all the marbles, and Mishi has Keldeo + Bisharp in his arsenal. I guess it also helps in the mirror as well, as you can play that match-up like a dick.

The other notable set is DD Moxie Gyarados. I've kept going on about this set since the dawn of time when it comes to running Gyara in SS DUU, so it's time to practice what I preach. I felt like I didn't really need the luxury of Intimidate much, the targets were Terrakion (2x weak) and Bisharp (lol) there wasn't much in terms of opposing Intim anyway (Gyara beats Arc and Krook too), so I might as well be snowbally. Normal Gem DEdge means I can push for KOs against stuff that resist Waterfall; just having that ability to pick off Roserade, Hydreigon, and Rotom-W at higher ranges than usual is great not only for punching holes but also for nabbing Moxie boosts. With DD and Tangela, the team has a win-the-game option, if not just another way to pin the likes of opposing Terrakion and Keldeo; it doesn't really need the DD to win though, as Sticky Webs can suffice, and Gyara showed it in the actual game itself, bossing up for 4 KOs. That was a gamer moment.

In terms of weaknesses... I don't know, really! Just having a Ribombee does that I guess! Well fr though Talonflame is mabes annoying but definitely outplayable. The Gyara item could be Silk Scarf or LO or something lol, Normal Gem ain't that cool ig, i was informed that Gem was nerfed after posting which I forgot lmfao that's a gamer moment edit: i also just realized it's protect aegislash looool i'd replace that if you were planning to steal this

That's all gamer
 
Last edited:

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Hello! I have a lot of news to cover today. First off, please welcome Memoric to the VR council! He won the coronation tour that involved basically 2 different metagames, and he's a known user with DUU VR experience. We're very lucky to add another skilled and knowledgeable player.

Secondly, I want to talk about my current project: redoing the sample sets. The old ones were simply importables with a bunch of slashes and a couple calcs if need be, and I want to have a uniform system that provides some new knowledge, so I came up with this:

[SET NAME]
Fast attacker

[SET]
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Protect

[OTHER EVS]

[REPLACEMENT ITEMS]
Lum Berry
Sitrus Berry

[REPLACEMENT MOVES]
Close Combat - None
Rock Slide - None
Substitute - Stomping Tantrum, Iron Head, Quick Attack, Taunt, Stone Edge
Protect - None

[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
Keldeo
Hitmontop
Reuniclus
Gengar
Alcremie
Gothorita
Mimikyu
Jellicent
Bronzong
Aegislash
Ninetales-Alola
Cofagrigus
Tangela

[GOOD TEAMMATES]
Krookodile
Gyarados
Mimikyu
Noivern
Gengar
Bisharp
Grimmsnarl
Hydreigon
Mandibuzz
Weavile
Ribombee
Rotom-Mow
Aegislash
Talonflame


The new sample sets have an easy to import, no slash set. Listed below are alternative EV spreads, along with replacement items and moves. Below that is a computer generated (plus any obvious ones the algorithm misses and I add manually) list of checks and counters and good teammates. The checks and counters are Pokemon that have favorable one on one matchups, and the good teammates are Pokemon that have favorable one on one matchups versus the given list of checks and counters. These are by no means perfect lists, as I said they are computer generated and I'm not a mathematician, so you may see something questionable on there. I hope to have all of these up soon, but it may take a day or two.

If you see anything on the set that you disagree with, post in this thread or PM me on discord (n10sit#4610). I will gladly make changes based on community input.

Lastly, we have a new VR!!! Thanks to all of the hard work from the DUU VR council, we've finally got an updated and relevant viability rankings. You may see the third post in this thread for the VR, and I will leave our voting here.

Pokemonn10siTtalkingtreelord death manYuichiDemantoidMemoricResult
Aegislash1121222
Alcremie5555555
Araquanid5555555
Arcanine2222222
Bisharp4344334
Braviary5UR555UR5
Bronzong4555545
ButterfreeURURURURURURUR
Chansey5333333
ClefableURURURURURURUR
Clefairy5UR55545
CobalionURURURURURURUR
Cofagrigus54URURUR45
CopperajahURURURURURURUR
Corsola-GalarUR5URURURURUR
Darmanitan5555555
DracozoltURURURURUR5UR
DragalgeURURURURUR5UR
DrifblimURURURURURURUR
Duraludon5URURURURURUR
Espeon555URURURUR
ExeggutorURURURURURURUR
Exeggutor-AlolaURURURURURURUR
Gengar5444444
Gigalith5555545
Gothorita4455334
Grimmsnarl5334454
Gyarados4455434
Haxorus55UR55UR5
Heliolisk44UR5534
HippowdonURURURURURURUR
Hitmontop5UR45555
Hydreigon2232312
Inteleon3233333
Jellicent3343443
Keldeo2222222
Krookodile3222232
LilligantURURURURURURUR
Lurantis5444544
LuxrayURURURURURURUR
MagnezoneURURURURUR5UR
Mamoswine3333333
MandibuzzUR555555
Mimikyu2343433
Ninetales4444434
Ninetales-Alola4545544
Noivern3333433
ObstagoonURURURURURURUR
OranguruURUR555UR5
Pincurchin5435434
Reuniclus5555UR55
Ribombee3254423
Roserade4454444
Rotom-Heat4454444
Rotom-Mow4544554
Rotom-Wash1121232
Scrafty4444444
ScytherUR5UR5555
Snorlax4444554
Talonflame3343444
Tangela4333323
Terrakion1111111
TogeticURURURURUR5UR
Torracat3444454
ToxapexURURURURUR5UR
Toxitricity5UR555UR5
Tsareena3333343
Vileplume5544555
Wartortle2222222
Weavile4444344
 
Last edited:

n10sit

>DUUTL
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Grimmsnarl moved from DUU to DOU
Hawlucha moved from DUU to DOU
Tsareena moved from DUU to DOU

Azumarill moved from DOU to DUU
Comfey moved from DOU to DUU
Conkeldurr moved from DOU to DUU
Darmanitan-Galar moved from DOU to DUU
Kyurem moved from DOU to DUU
Rhyperior moved from DOU to DUU

Pretty insignificant losses, but a lot of interesting drops. Azumarill, unusable in the current DOU metagame dominated by Rillaboom, Psychic Terrain, and Blastoise, could really find a niche here. Darm-G is very very strong, Kyurem has a lot of utility and decent power, and Conkeldurr and Rhyperior are interesting TR additions. We'll have the VR adjusted shortly.
 
Last edited:
Grimmsnarl moved from DUU to DOU
Hawlucha moved from DUU to DOU

Azumarill moved from DOU to DUU
Comfey moved from DOU to DUU
Conkeldurr moved from DOU to DUU
Darmanitan-Galar moved from DOU to DUU
Kyurem moved from DOU to DUU
Rhyperior moved from DOU to DUU

Pretty insignificant losses, but a lot of interesting drops. Azumarill, unusable in the current DOU metagame dominated by Rillaboom, Psychic Terrain, and Blastoise, could really find a niche here. Darm-G is very very strong, Kyurem has a lot of utility and decent power, and Conkeldurr and Rhyperior are interesting TR additions. We'll have the VR adjusted shortly.
You didn't mention Comfey, I think Comfey can nearly always go first due to triage which makes it useful as a speed controller and fast healer, my guess is for it to be tier 3, or tier 4 due to it being somewhat outplayed by Ribombee
 
Grimmsnarl moved from DUU to DOU
Hawlucha moved from DUU to DOU

Azumarill moved from DOU to DUU
Comfey moved from DOU to DUU
Conkeldurr moved from DOU to DUU
Darmanitan-Galar moved from DOU to DUU
Kyurem moved from DOU to DUU
Rhyperior moved from DOU to DUU
with this drops I think neutralizing gas weezing will pop out. Coz it tanks alot of the physical move and can easily burn physical attackers . It also completely bluff azu coz no huge power and sludge bomb will deal super effective damage. And since tsareena just moved up theres no way to stop comfey for spamming draining kiss and i think weezing is a good check for it .
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top