DP Dragonite

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/dragonite

Many of the sets lack content, and the analysis overall could use work. I left the sets largely intact, though I changed the mixed attacking set to a pure subpunching variant.

[SET]
Name: Dragon Dance
Move 1: Dragon Dance
Move 2: Outrage
Move 3: Fire Punch/Fire Blast
Move 4: Earthquake
Item: Life Orb/Yache Berry/Lum Berry
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 56 HP/252 Atk/200 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Dragonite has been, in the past, greatly overshadowed by its cousin Salamence; this generation that holds fast, and the new addition of Garchomp hasn't helped Dragonite's popularity much either. Typically when people analyze Dragonite, they compare its movesets to ones used by his younger kin, but this set is Dragonite's own special niche. No other Pokemon who gets STAB on Outrage can also learn Dragon Dance (not counting Rayquaza), so this is something that Dragonite will be sporting quite often. The concept is simple: come in on something that doesn't like Dragonite much, Dragon Dance on the switch, and blast away with Outrage. If you suspect a Bronzong/Skarmory, ready yourself with your choice of Fire move (Punch hits Bronzong more, but Blast is better for Skarmory). Metagross will take more from Fire Blast because of his high Defense, but other earthbound Steels won't usually like eating a Dragon Danced Earthquake.</p>

<p>In terms of items, it's really a preference issue. If you find Dragonite to be dealing too little damage, Life Orb can assist you. If you're worried about something coming in to Ice Beam (or even worse Ice Shard) you out of existence, Yache Berry can turn the tables. Lum Berry is also a popular choice, as it lets you go another round of Outrage with no confusion risk (as well as a one-time prevention of annoying status).</p>


[SET]
Set name: Choice Specs
Move 1: Draco Meteor
Move 2: Dragon Pulse
Move 3: Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Move 4: Focus Punch
Nature: Mild/Hasty
Item: Choice Specs
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>At first glance, this seems like an inferior SpecsMence. And that is not far removed from the truth. Salamence has much better Special Attack, as well as access to Hydro Pump. Salamence's water power is balanced out, however, by Dragonite's punching prowess which he boasts in the form of Focus Punch, something no other dragon learns (barring Palkia). SpecsMence always had trouble with Blissey, but Focus Punch can do between 73 and 86% to Blissey, leaving her quite surprised and in no condition to do a lot of special walling.</p>

<p>Note that using Surf is not recommended; Dragonite needs Focus Punch to differentiate itself from Salamence, and Surf just brings you down in that aspect.</p>


[SET]
Set name: Support
Move 1: Heal Bell
Move 2: Roost
Move 3: Dragon Claw
Move 4: Roar/Thunder Wave/Fire Punch
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/64 Atk/196 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Pokemon XD expands Dragonite's already gigantic movepool allowing him to do a bit of extra support. While Celebi and Blissey are generally sturdier in terms of status healing support, Dragonite hits a lot harder than either of them. Dragonite also has the ability to use Roar, meaning enemies wouldn't be able to set up on you. Roost provides healing, as well as partially alleviating your Ice weakness and saving you from Rock attacks. Thunder Wave can paralyze annoying threats that want to outspeed you, but it also leaves you vulnerable to Garchomp (who can switch in for free and then outspeed and KO you with Outrage). Fire Punch is for all those pesky Steel types who think they can come in for free and do what they please.</p>


[SET]
Set name: SubPunch
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Focus Punch
Move 3: Dragon Claw
Move 4: Fire Punch/Flamethrower
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Adamant/Lonely
EVs: 252 HP/196 Atk/60 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Dragonite is the only OU dragon capable of learning Focus Punch, and 134 Attack certainly makes Focus Punch viable. Dragon/Fire is resisted only by Heatran, and Focus Punch solves that problem (though most trainers won't reach for their Heatran as the best switch-in to you anyway, especially if you've got a substitute). The idea is the same as it's always been: substitute, then punch. The choice between Fire moves is always a conundrum. Flamethrower will 2HKO Skarmory without any EV investment guaranteed, but Fire Punch hits most Bronzong harder. You won't 2HKO Bronzong every time even with Fire Punch, but it's not like Bronzong is keen to break your substitute with Earthquake and Grass Knot. Dragon Claw is chosen over Outrage because being confused and using Substitute can lead to an extraneous loss of HP.</p>


[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Dragonite's movepool is massive, and there are plenty of good moves in there that are simply too hard to fit into a set. Haze is a good move, but is sadly illegal with Heal Bell and thus has a hard time finding a place for itself. Dragon/Fire covers everything except Heatran, and add in Focus Punch or Earthquake and even he can't withstand the coverage. Regarding Dragonite's repertoire of Water type moves (Surf, Waterfall, and Aqua Tail), avoid them. They're not going to help you as much as either Earthquake or Focus Punch, and Surf just makes you a weaker Salamence if you use it on Choice Specs. Dragonite can BoltBeam, though it really would only use Ice Beam to get rid of things like Hippowdon or Donphan. It can also turn physical with ThunderPunch/Ice Punch, but again, Ice Beam will serve you better if you opt to use it at all. You can go for Stone Edge or Rock Slide, but they'll leave you a bit more vulnerable to Heatran. Dragonite can learn Agility to boost his average speed to great heights, though Dragon Dance is usually more effective.</p>


[EVS]
<p>Dragonite wants a boost in its already large Attack stat. Keep in mind that you don't need any Special Attack EVs to 2HKO Skarmory with Flamethrower, so you needn't expend extra EVs on a physical set to deal with him. The EVs listed are generally good guidelines to follow: healthy doses of Attack and HP are good.</p>

<p>On the Dragon Dance set, a standard 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe with Adamant nature is acceptable as well.</p>


[OPINION]
<p>Dragonite had trouble fitting in last generation, as Salamence was being eyed and fancied by every trainer and their brother. Dragonite's got more competition this time around too from Garchomp, but it's got a unique combo in Dragon Dance and Outrage that no other Dragon in its environment shares. This, combined with it ability to take supporting roles and be an overall versatile team player, has boosted its usage up in D/P, even though Garchomp has been busy overshadowing Dragonite since before D/P was even released. Since Dragonite fills so many roles, it can work on many teams.</p>


[COUNTERS]
<p>Cresselia is a good counter to any Dragonite who opts away from Life Orb or Yache Berry. She falls just short of an OHKO with Ice Beam on DD Dragonite, but she can Thunder Wave Dragonite and also be quite threatening (especially if Dragonite switched in on Stealth Rock).</p>

<p>Much like Salamence, anything with Ice Beam will give Dragonite a hard time. Starmie is faster than Dragonite (without Dragon Dance) and resists Flamethrower and Focus Punch, but a Yache Berry will quickly turn the tables and put Starmie on the chopping block. Bulky waters like Suicune, Slowbro, and Swampert can threaten with Ice Beam or Avalanche while also scouting out Dragonite's set. Weavile is especially dangerous with STAB Ice Shard hitting on Dragonite's lesser defense. Steels switch in well on Dragon attacks (particularly Outrage and Draco Meteor), but need to be wary of predicted Fire moves.</p>
 
Dragonite also gets aqua tail which sould be mentioned for why it sould be left off for the same reason surf is, redunant coverage when you have better moves to hit what you would be hitting it with

Aerial ace souldn't be bothered with

It can learn ice beam to off fellow dragons and making ground based physcial walls soft(or removing them) for outrage sweeps , don't bother with ice punch though the things you would hit with ice punch take more from ice beam

for more support options it learns light screen and safeguard


also Rayquaza (who is uber) also gets DD+outrage and better speed to boot BTW
 

Lee

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No other Pokemon who gets STAB on Outrage can also learn Dragon Dance, so this is something that Dragonite will be sporting quite often.
No other Pokemon, other than Rayquaza in ubers. Mention him to avoid confusion.

and threaten an OHKO with Ice Beam
287 SpA is required to OHKO Dragonite, with Cresselia's absolute max being 273. The standard support Cresselia (20HP/252Def) takes 71.24% - 83.68% from a Dragon Dance Life Orb Outrage - she WILL OHKO in return, but it's hard to say she's the greatest of counters when she is now on 15% health.

On the other hand, 252/252 Bold Cresselia takes 56.53% - 66.44% from the same attack, but only hits back for 65-77%. which fails to KO even after two turns of Life Orb. Needless to say, if she switches in on a DD, she is doomed short of assistance from Thunder Wave, Rest and/or Reflect.

In short, clean up the Cresselia section. She cannot afford to "wait an extra turn", and if she does run enough SpA to "threaten an OHKO," then she won't be defensive enough to class as a counter.
 
For the DD set, it says "If you're worried about Starmie coming in to Ice Beam you out of existence, Yache Berry can turn the tables". This makes people assume that Starmie is the only threat, when obviously any decent ice beam will kill without yache.

Also, mention Pokemon that have ice shard and can easily come in for the revenge kill. For this reason, mention dragon claw. It can be nice to not be stuck into outrage so that you can save nite for later.

Waterfall/aqua tail should be mentioned in other options. It doesn't offer much in terms of coverage, but it's a viable move in place of EQ for dealing with fire types.

Maybe mention how much those speed EVs give nite after 1 and 2 DDs so people know what they outspeed and what they don't.

Nite also learns TPunch from ADV, which could be mentioned. Explain legality though.
 
In my opinion Cressilia isnt that reliable of a counter because it can be 2hkos while it cant 1hko if you don't have life orb.
 
DD set said:
If you're worried about Starmie coming in to Ice Beam you out of existence, Yache Berry can turn the tables"
Starmie is outsped and 1HKO'd by outrage after a DD so it's not a worry in that respect.

Dragonite is the only dragon capable of learning Focus Punch, and 134 Attack certainly makes Focus Punch viable.
Didn't you state that Palkia can learn it earlier?

calciphoence said:
Nite also learns TPunch from ADV, which could be mentioned. Explain legality though.
It also gets it as a move tutor move in 4th gen, so legality isn't an issue.
 

david stone

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I would use Thunderbolt or Surf over Dragon Pulse on the Specs set, probably, as they help cover some Steels better. Opinions?
 

X-Act

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I dunno... I presume you're thinking of Heatran... in which case Surf would replace Dragon Pulse nicely.
 
I'd guess what Obi was referring to was Empoleon, which probably gets hit pretty hard by Focus Punch. Putting surf and to a lesser extent t-bolt there does bring up the whole "It's a worse Specsmence!" problem, though, since Dragonite's speed and sp atk are both inferior to Mence's, it doesn't have Intimidate to soften switch-in blows, etc.
 

Colonel M

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First off, you have an illegal moveset. On the support set, you have listed Haze and Heal Bell. IIRC, Heal Bell is an XD move and Haze is a breedable move, thus they are both incompatable. In that last slot, I'd think a bit more of Safegaurd and Light Screen a bit more useful, but I guess Thunder Wave is also a neat option.

I think the analysis had the note, but after a Dragon Dance, a Jolly DDNight will outspeed ScarfCross.
 

Great Sage

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Your damage calculation for Focus Punch on Blissey is a little off. It can do up to 86% to the standard Blissey, not 80%. EVs go after Other Options, not the other way.
 
16 HP/252 Attack/240 Speed Adamant was the EVs I always used for DDNite because it outsped max speed Jolly Weavile after one DD and gets a hell of a lot more Attack than its Jolly counterpart. This may be less useful now that some Weaviles have started carrying Ice Shard, but it might be worth a mention.
 
I would just go max Speed for other Dragonites and other random things. 3 points of Spd will make a difference more often than 3 points of HP in my opinion.
 
After a DD, that gives you 390 speed. What does 390 speed beat that 384 speed doesn't? Base 127 pokemon? The extra HP on the other hand lets him take a bit more damage before dying. Cresselia's Ice Beam is dangerously close to an OHKO after Life Orb, so putting a bit of distance between Dragonite and death can only be a good thing.
 

Jumpman16

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"Note that using Yache Berry is redundant, since Substitute nullifies the threat of a Starmie revenge kill."

I don't think this applies at all, since a lot of the things that can begin to counter Dragonite and just a lot of things in general are faster (211 speed) and will break its Sub as it doles out a powerful blow. I don't think there's any reason to even mention Yache Berry on a pokemon that isn't meant to sweep.

Also, in general the writing switches from the "he/him" pronoun to using "Dragonite" and back again...I think it should be consistent. I don't know what was ultimately decided on the "he/she" thing but at the very least it should be one or the other.
 

Havak

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Agreeing with Jump here. Also, if Starmie was coming in for a Revenge Kill, I'd assume that means Dragonite has KO'd an opposing Pokémon and wouldn't have the sub up...
 

Jibaku

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Dratonite's
Dragonite's

I find Yache Berry a bit useless on the Heal Bell set. Seeing as it is built to play defensively, Yache Berry goes to waste as he won't be able to take advantage of the opponent not KOing with their Ice attacks.

If I'm wrong, tell me.
 
Put this up with a few changes.
- Added a CB set.
- Changed the support set.

One thing I didn't add was an Agility set. I tried it out a few months back and it did work really well. I actually had more success with it than with the Dragon Dance set. Anyway, I'm leaving it out for now, but here's what I used. Opinions?

[SET]
name: Agility
move 1: Agility
move 2: Outrage
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 76 SpA / 180 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>One problem that Dragon Dance Dragonite runs into is that thanks to his rather average Speed, he will often find himself outsped by many a Choice Scarf wielding opponent. With Agility, that is no longer an issue as one turn of set up makes him faster than everything, including Choice Scarf Gengar, who is the fastest opponent you are likely to encounter. However, this comes with a trade off, as Dragonite will not receive the Attack boost that Dragon Dance provides. Thankfully, Life Orb gives him some much needed power, and when you compare the 523 Attack this set has to 553 the Yache/Lum Berry versions of the Dragon Dancer has, the power drop is relatively minor. Obviously the Life Orb variant of Dragon Dance Dragonite has significantly more power.</p>

<p>The Speed EVs are sufficient to outpace everything up to and including Choice Scarf Gengar. 176 EVs is actually enough to achieve this, but the extra 4 allow Dragonite to hit an inital Speed of 241, more than max Speed Magnezone and Abomasnow, should you need to attack them before setting up an Agility. After maxing Attack, 76 EVs remain and when allocated to Special Attack, they allow Fire Blast to hit Skarmory for a minimum of 98%, even with an Adamant nature. If you wish to power up Fire Blast even more, to guarantee the KO on Skarmory and do more damage to Bronzong, a Lonely or Naughty nature can be used.</p>
 
You may as well shift 12 more EVs into Speed so you outspeed Jolly Tyranitar then, as 3 points of Special Attack seem really useless.
 

Aldaron

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this post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

should be deleted site represents OP and Phuq's agility set
 

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