DP Research Thread #2 ("New")

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Well crud, I guess that description is wrong too...thunder was supposed to do double damage against flying pokemon. I guess sky uppercut wouldn't have its accuracy affected either.
 
Peterko said:
Obi I have a question: Where do you put the stuff that´s been researched after you edit it out of those first page posts? The analysis forum?

The only time I remove data from the first post is if it's proven incorrect or if it has been verified / answered, in which case I put it in the relevant analysis page.
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Blizzard said:
The Veekun description says Thunder, Whirlwind, Gust, and Twister. I wonder about Twister, however, since it does double damage to things using Dive (supposedly). I also sort of wonder about Sky Uppercut, which hits pokemon using Fly.

Oh, I am so stupid! I remember hearing about Sky Uppercut, Gust, and Whirlwind a long time ago.

Veekun database effect description:
Randomly selects and uses any move in the game. Counter, Covet, Destiny Bond, Detect, Endure, Focus Punch, Follow Me, Helping Hand, Metronome, Mimic, Mirror Coat, Protect, Sketch, Sleep Talk, Snatch, Struggle, Thief, and Trick are exempt.

Hmm, we'll probably end up going with this data, as Metronome is quite possibly the hardest move to test (Select and pray!).

Stomp only doubles once, even if the target minimizes twice, correct?

Correct. A question of my own: Is this Stomp boost Baton Passable?

To make sure I understand: This just means Pursuit works like everything else when you have a choice item?

Yes. In the Japanese version, you could change attacks if they switched the first turn you use Choice item Pursuit, but Pursuit acts normal in the English version. The Japanese mechanics are how ADV worked.
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Jibaku said:
Does the Grounding effect of Ingrain get Baton Passed?

Say I have a Smeargle who just Ingrained and then BPed to Zapdos. Is Zapdos now vulnerable to ground moves (Hi BP chain!)? What about the effectivenss? Will it be neutral, or super effective?

The effect is Baton Passed. I haven't explicitly tested this, but I am relatively certain that Ground moves will be super effective on Zapdos. This would, of course, need verification (along with something like Ingrained Butterfree to verify that it still resists Ground).
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That brings up an interesting question. Does Mold Breaker ignore the grounding effect of Ingrain on Flying Pokemon? My guess is no, but oh well!
 
Jibaku said:
I'm not sure whether this goes in the reasearch thread or the simple Q/A thread, but here it is anyways:

Does the Grounding effect of Ingrain get Baton Passed?

Say I have a Smeargle who just Ingrained and then BPed to Zapdos. Is Zapdos now vulnerable to ground moves (Hi BP chain!)? What about the effectivenss? Will it be neutral, or super effective?
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Yes, and super effective.
 
I'll be able to help test the Heal Block-Pain Spilt thingamabob. I have a Dialga with Heal Block (181 speed, if that's important) but no Pain Spilt Pokémon unforntunatly. Anyone got a Pain Spilter so it can be tested?
 
Helping Hand now works even if you are the last Pokemon in a Double Battle. In the Japanese version, if your last Pokemon tries to use Helping Hand, you can't get past the select target screen since there are no legal targets. Now, the select target screen is simply skipped over when you select Helping Hand if you are the last Pokemon.

Edit: Nature Power on Battle Revolution

Gateway - Hydro Pump
Main Street - Tri Attack
Waterfall - Seed Bomb
Neon - Tri Attack
Crystal - Rock Slide
Sunny Park - Seed Bomb
Magma - Rock Slide
Sunset - Earthquake
Courtyard - Tri Attack
Stargazer - Rock Slide
 
"Blisselia"

Anyways, 2v2 match testing Snatch and Lunar Dance done after snagging a Lv.100 Cress on the GTS

To verify that Snatch can affect partner

Blissey used Snatch!
Foe Meditite used Protect!
Cresselia used Moonlight!
Blissey snatched Moonlight!

Now:
Blissey used Snatch!
Cresselia used Lunar Dance!
Cresselia fainted!

Conclusion: Lunar Dance does not get snatched.
 
Assist: What cannot be selected?

Secret Power: What is the chance of these effects occurring? Is it 30% for all of them?
 
Blizzard said:
1. If you sleep talk refresh, you cure your own sleep? Just wanted to verify since the Veekun database didn't mention sleep curing.
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I just tested (in Pearl), and can verify that a sleeping (non-rest) Gengar's sleep talk'd snatch did steal refresh used by Gengar's partner, but it failed and didn't cure the sleep. The move description thread needs to have the Refresh description fixed. I assume Rest sleep isn't cured either, but I don't feel like trying to test that. :P It'd have almost the exact same result as normal Rest, anyway.

Just for fun (and at great expense to my sanity) I tried Refresh behind freeze -- doesn't work, doesn't even try to use Refresh.
 
I don't know if it's even worth looking into, but does Seed Flare have something unique related to it? It has its own effect code, while all other moves with a chance of reducing sp. def. (shadow ball, and a bunch more) have a different code.
 
Blizzard said:
I don't know if it's even worth looking into, but does Seed Flare have something unique related to it? It has its own effect code, while all other moves with a chance of reducing sp. def. (shadow ball, and a bunch more) have a different code.
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IRC it just has a really high chance of lowering sp def. Something like 40%
 
That wouldn't result in a different effect code, I'm almost certain. Shadow Ball and Flash Cannon have different effect chances (20% and 10%) but the same effect code.

Another example would be healing moves: Recover, Softboiled, Milkdrink, Slack Off, and Heal Order all have the same effect. Roost has its own code because, despite doing the same thing as the other healing moves, it has an additional effect, that of making the user lose its flying type for the rest of the turn.
 
Baton Pass: What works with Baton Pass:
  • Block (both on you and your opponent)
  • Mean Look
  • Spider Web
  • Ingrain
  • Leech Seed
  • Perish Count
  • Substitute (keeps its HP)
  • Stat boosts / drops (Swords Dance, etc., including Focus Energy)

What doesn't work with Baton Pass:
  • Partial Trappers (either on your own side or your opponent's) like Wrap
  • Attract
  • Torment

What needs testing:
  • Aqua Ring
  • Camouflage
  • Conversion
  • Conversion2
  • Curse (when used by a Ghost on the Baton Passer)
  • Disable (Foe uses Disable, it selects Swords Dance, but I use Baton Pass, and bring out a Pokemon with Swords Dance. Can I use it?)
  • Embargo
  • Gastro Acid
  • Foresight
  • Imprison
  • Lock-On (faster Pokemon uses Lock-On, slower Pokemon BPs, Pokemon that used Lock-On uses Fissure through 6 DTs, Sand Veil, and 6 Sand Attacks)
  • Magnet Rise
  • Mud Sport
  • Nightmare (only possible if Sleep Talk can select Baton Pass and you bring out another Sleeping Pokemon)
  • Mind Reader
  • Worry Seed

Camouflage: What do you get from the terrains in PBR?
 
Baton Passable:
Aqua Ring
Curse(Ghost kind)
Embargo
Gastro Acid
Magnet Rise

Not Baton Passable:
Camouflage
Conversion
Disable
Foresight
Worry Seed

Camouflage: What do you get from the terrains in PBR?

Tested this with a Starmie.

Gateway - Failed. You seem to change to the same type as the attack you get from Nature Power so this is probably Water not Psychic.
Main Street - Normal
Waterfall - Grass
Neon - Normal
Crystal - Rock
Sunny Park - Grass
Magma - Rock
Sunset - Ground
Courtyard - Normal
Stargazer - Rock
 
Is there any way to calculate the % possibility of the ability of a Pal Park Pokemon switching during evolution? I like Emerald, I'd like to keep breeding my third-gens as long as possible, but I'd like a Technical Scyther and Poison Heal Breloom, for instance.
 
updated with the latest questions and test results

I´ve tested
-> whirlwind against a flying pkmn again and it misses everytime
-> BP Minimize Stomp boost and it didn´t work (the same as Defense Curl Rollout/Ice Ball boost)



Assist: What cannot be selected?

Attract: 50/50 that you move or be imobilized by love, maybe more tests need to be done
test results total: 169/368 = 45.9%
-> 61/168 = 36.31% (X-Act)
-> 108/200 = 54% (Peterko)

Baton Pass:

What needs testing:
-> Conversion2
-> Lock-On (faster Pokemon uses Lock-On, slower Pokemon BPs, Pokemon that used Lock-On uses Fissure through 6 DTs, Sand Veil, and 6 Sand Attacks)
-> Mind Reader

What works with Baton Pass:
-> Block (both on you and your opponent)
-> Mean Look
-> Spider Web
-> Ingrain
-> Leech Seed
-> Perish Count
-> Substitute (keeps its HP)
-> Stat boosts / drops (Swords Dance, etc., including Focus Energy)
-> Aqua Ring
-> Curse (used by a Ghost)
-> Embargo
-> Gastro Acid
-> Magnet Rise

What doesn't work with Baton Pass:
-> Partial Trappers (either on your own side or your opponent's) like Wrap
-> Attract
-> Torment
-> Camouflage
-> Conversion
-> Disable
-> Foresight
-> Worry Seed
-> Mud Sport
-> Water Sport
-> Nightmare
-> Defense Curl Rollout/Ice Ball boost
-> Minimize Stomp boost
-> Imprison

Bounce:
-> thunder: hits, base power and accuracy unaffected (Peterko)
-> whilwind: doesn´t hit (Peterko)
-> gust: hits, base power doubles (Peterko)
-> twister: Y/N?
-> sky uppercut: hits, base power unaffected (Peterko)
-> anything else?

Camouflage:

PBR - tested by TRE
-> Gateway - Water
-> Main Street - Normal
-> Waterfall - Grass
-> Neon - Normal
-> Crystal - Rock
-> Sunny Park - Grass
-> Magma - Rock
-> Sunset - Ground
-> Courtyard - Normal
-> Stargazer - Rock

D/P - tested by KevlarX290
-> Building - Normal
-> Road/Desert - Ground
-> Grass/Tall Grass - Grass
-> Pond/Ocean - Water
-> Cave/Mountain - Rock
-> Snow - Ice

Conversion:

Conversion2:

Disable: OmegaDonut

Encore: OmegaDonut

Fly:
-> thunder: hits, base power and accuracy unaffected (Peterko)
-> whilwind: doesn´t hit (Peterko)
-> gust: hits, base power doubles (Peterko)
-> twister: Y/N?
-> sky uppercut: hits, base power unaffected (Peterko)
-> anything else?

Gravity: more 50% and 55% accurate move tests needed
-> DynamicPunch test: 34/40 hit = 85%, a 70% accuracy increase
-> Sing test: 55\60 = 91.67%, a 66.67% accuracy increase

Heal Block: doesn´t block Pain Split (OmegaDonut)

Helping Hand: (TRE) Helping Hand now works even if you are the last Pokemon in a Double Battle. In the Japanese version, if your last Pokemon tries to use Helping Hand, you can't get past the select target screen since there are no legal targets. Now, the select target screen is simply skipped over when you select Helping Hand if you are the last Pokemon.

Magic Coat:

Magnitude: base power+range

Me First: revenge/avalanche

Metronome:

Minimize: Stomp doubles move power if foe uses Minimize, but it can still miss. Extrasensory´s base power is unaffected by the use of Minimize. This is different from Advance where Extrasensory´s power was doubled as well.

Mist:
-> haze: Y/N?
-> heart swap: Y/N?
-> power swap: Y/N?
-> intimidate: Y/N?

Nature power (PBR): tested by Team Rocket Elite
-> Gateway - Hydro Pump
-> Main Street - Tri Attack
-> Waterfall - Seed Bomb
-> Neon - Tri Attack
-> Crystal - Rock Slide
-> Sunny Park - Seed Bomb
-> Magma - Rock Slide
-> Sunset - Earthquake
-> Courtyard - Tri Attack
-> Stargazer - Rock Slide

Recycle:
-> Fling: yes
-> Nature Gift:
-> Bug Bite:
-> Pluck:
-> Knock Off:
-> Covet:
-> Thief:
-> Trick:
-> Switcheroo:

Secret Power: What is the chance of these effects occurring? Is it 30% for all of them?

Sleep Talk:
-> focus punch can never be chosen, even when there are no other moves, sleep talk fails, speed doesn´t matter
-> sleep talk chooses counter
- works in 1vs1 against a faster foe that damaged you with a physical attack
- fails in 1vs1 against a slower foe
- works in 2vs2 against a faster foe that damaged you with a physical attack (even in this situation: damaged, spored, sleep talk, counter)
- fails in 2vs2 against a slower foe
- fails in 2vs2 if only your partner attacks you
- fails in 2vs2 if a faster foe attacks you, then your partner attacks you (counter is activated by the last pkmn that damaged you)
-> mirror coat: probably similar to counter
-> metronome: Y/N
-> refresh can be sleep talked, but it doesn´t cure the sleep status (Blizzard)
-> something else?


Snatch:
-> Snatch (OmegaDonut):
1. in single battle, nothing happens
2. in 2vs2, if two Pokemon use Snatch and a third uses a Snatchable move, the faster Snatcher will Snatch the Snatchable move, and the slower Snatcher will then Snatch the Snatchable move from the faster Snatcher; if no snatchable move was used, nothing happens
-> Metal Burst (Peterko): didn´t snatch
-> Lunar Dance (Jibaku): didn´t snatch

Triple Kick:

Transform: choice band/specs
 
Camouflage in D/P:

Building ~ Normal
Road/Desert ~ Ground
Grass/Tall Grass ~ Grass
Pond/Ocean ~ Water
Cave/Mountain ~ Rock
Snow ~ Ice
 
My latest test with Sing+Gravity resulted in 13\15 + 15\15 + 14\15 + 13\15 = 55\60 hits, or about 91% accuracy. This would appear to be about a 70% increase as well.
 
@KevlarX290: thanks, although I think we had it already (added it anyway)

@OmegaDonut: yeah it is probably 70%, with 80% you´d miss only once or twice with 99% accuracy, it could also be 60%, but my test showed a 70% increase, as well...now are those tests proof enough for 70 or do we need more?


EDIT: I was wrong, it has probably something to do with how counter works in 2vs2, it seems to fail when attacked by the partner

Sleep Talk tests:
1. sleep talk chooses counter
2. how it works:
-> works in 1vs1 against a faster foe that damaged you with a physical attack
-> fails in 1vs1 against a slower foe
-> works in 2vs2 against a faster foe that damaged you with a physical attack (even in this situation: damaged, spored, sleep talk, counter)
-> fails in 2vs2 against a slower foe
-> fails in 2vs2 if only your partner attacks you
-> fails in 2vs2 if a faster foe attacks you, then your partner attacks you (counter is activated by the last pkmn that damaged you)
3. counter + focus punch, it seems to always choose counter (15/15)
4. sleep talk can´t choose focus punch, even when there are no other moves, it fails, speed doesn´t matter
 
I had a question about 2-5 hitting moves and double/triple kick and critical hits/flinching, but I put it in the quick questions thread.

I just tested acupressure, targeting the partner, and it never gave me a fail message until (I'm pretty sure) it had boosted all stats three times. So it apparently chooses a random stat that hasn't been maxed. I have no idea of the interaction if a stat is already partially boosted or has had its modifier lowered by growl or something.

I did wonder, though...it greatly increased "Accuracy" three times. What does increasing accuracy do for you, if anything? Or lowering a target's evade when they haven't used Double Team etc.? I think X-Act said that accuracy and evade modifiers went from 0-6 as accuracy DECREASED or evade increased, but the ability to raise accuracy is kind of weird.
 
Add Imprison to the list of things that BP doesn't pass.

On a side note, in case this wasn't mentioned, Lansat Berry's CH boost is the exact same effect as a use of Focus Energy. If Focus Energy has already been used, the berry doesn't activate.
 
Blizzard said:
I did wonder, though...it greatly increased "Accuracy" three times. What does increasing accuracy do for you, if anything? Or lowering a target's evade when they haven't used Double Team etc.? I think X-Act said that accuracy and evade modifiers went from 0-6 as accuracy DECREASED or evade increased, but the ability to raise accuracy is kind of weird.
Click to expand...

Every Pokemon has two other hidden "stats", if you want to call them that: Accuracy and Evasion. These two stats also have stat modifiers between -6 and +6, and their default stat modifier value is 0, like for all the other stats. These two modifiers affect the move accuracy of moves in the following manner:

Accuracy Modifiers:

-6: 33.3% (3/9)
-5: 37.5% (3/8)
-4: 42.9% (3/7)
-3: 50% (3/6)
-2: 60% (3/5)
-1: 75% (3/4)
0: 100% (3/3)
+1: 133.3% (4/3)
+2: 166.7% (5/3)
+3: 200% (6/3)
+4: 233.3% (7/3)
+5: 266.6% (8/3)
+6: 300% (9/3)

The general formula is Accuracy Percentage = 300 / (3 - SM) % if SM is negative, and (SM + 3) * 100 / 3 % if SM is positive, where SM is the stat modifier.

For the Evasion percentage, it is the same as the accuracy percentage chart, except it's in reverse, so to speak:

Evasion Modifiers:

-6: 300% (9/3)
-5: 266.7% (8/3)
-4: 233.3% (7/3)
-3: 200% (6/3)
-2: 166.7% (5/3)
-1: 133.3% (4/3)
0: 100% (3/3)
+1: 75% (3/4)
+2: 60% (3/5)
+3: 50% (3/6)
+4: 42.9% (3/7)
+5: 37.5% (3/8)
+6: 33.3% (3/9)

For a formula, the Evasion Percentage = (3 - SM) * 100 / 3 % if SM is negative, and 300 / (SM + 3) % if SM is positive, where SM is the stat modifier.

Then, the move accuracy = (Normal Move Accuracy * User's Accuracy Percentage * Foe's Evasion Percentage) %. If this number is greater than or equal to 100%, the move will hit for certain.

For a small example, if you use Stone Edge and you have a +1 Accuracy modifier (assuming the foe has a normal evasion modifier), Stone Edge will hit 80 * 133.3% * 100% = 106.67% of the time, i.e. it will always hit.

Hope that sheds some light on accuracy and evasion modifiers.
 
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