DP Research Thread #4 ("Newer still")

[SwinubToupée]

Totals after 415 Encores:

4: 81 (19.5%)
5: 74 (17.8%)
6: 96 (23.1%)
7: 79 (19.0%)
8: 85 (20.5%)​

Durations of 185 Additional Encores:

7,8,5,5,8,8,6,5,6,5
7,4,5,4,5,5,7,8,6,4
5,4,8,6,4,5,7,5,5,8
8,8,5,7,4,7,5,7,7,6
5,7,8,7,5,7,6,4,7,4
6,8,6,4,4,5,5,4,5,8
6,4,6,8,8,4,7,4,4,5
4,7,7,6,8,4,5,5,5,8
8,7,4,6,6,7,5,8,7,5
5,6,7,4,6,7,4,8,8,4
5,6,8,5,5,4,6,7,8,5
6,7,7,4,4,6,5,7,4,5
4,7,6,7,7,6,5,8,8,7
6,8,6,5,7,8,5,5,5,7
6,4,6,8,7,4,5,7,7,5
7,6,8,4,6,6,4,7,6,4
6,7,8,8,8,8,4,7,6,6
7,7,7,6,8,7,6,4,6,8
4,4,8,8,6
​

Totals after 600 Encores:

4: 116 (19.3%)
5: 112 (18.7%)
6: 132 (22.0%)
7: 120 (20.0%)
8: 120 (20.0%)
​

Six had a good run but it's gradually evening out.

 

[obi]

I think that's enough to conclude with a fairly high level of confidence that the probabilities are equal.

 

[Syberia]

Trick does work on wi-fi even if you or your opponent is not holding an item.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlMdAs6Ho1o

However, unlike Shoddy, if you Trick away one choice item and receive another, you are unable to change moves; you're forced to use Trick again or switch out.

 

[Death Phenomeno]

Trick does work on wi-fi even if you or your opponent is not holding an item.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlMdAs6Ho1o

So I guess that the only thing left to check is if Thief also works correctly.

 

[AJC]

Something weird happens with Thief in this PBR video (only the first 3 minutes matter for this):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XS8FrRHRKU

As you can see, Tangrowth used Knock Off, so Rattata no longer has its Focus Sash. But later, when Rattata uses Thief, Tangrowth keeps its Leftovers intact…

Maybe Knock Off, Focus Sash, and Thief/Covet all have this associated behaviour, or maybe this was a one time bug.

Knock off doesn't physically remove the item (it disables the held item of the pokemon unless they have sticky hold or is Arceus/O-Gratina) so thats why Thief secondary effect didn't happen this is also why you don't lose item to a wild pokemon using knock off

 

[Chirnobyl]

Knock off doesn't physically remove the item (it disables the held item of the pokemon unless they have sticky hold or is Arceus/O-Gratina) so thats why Thief secondary effect didn't happen this is also why you don't lose item to a wild pokemon using knock off

If that happens, what happens if you were to use Trick?

 

[Syberia]

I just got the damaging rain + sandstorm in a battle. I will post video evidence if you'd like.

It lasted two turns, then my opponent sent in his own Tyranitar and it was gone.

 

[RBG]

I would love to see this if youcould please syberia

 

[Syberia]

I'm going to post it to my YouTube. The battle itself was a haxy piece of shit which I decided to run from, but the glitch is in there.

It's also not limited to Platinum, as this was a Platinum vs. Diamond battle.

Uploaded, it will be available as soon as it's done processing.



EDIT: Here is the video.


From the description:
1:38 and 1:47

The Rain Dance animation plays, but it damages my opponent as if it was Sandstorm. Then the regular Sandstorm animation + damage occurs as normal.

Note that before the glitch happened the first time, and my opponent sent out Persian, the phrase on the bottom of the screen was "Go for it, Persian!" as if I was the one sending out the Persian.

After my opponent sent in his own Tyranitar and Sandstream activated a second time, the glitch didn't happen anymore.

This was a Platinum vs. Diamond battle, so I guess this is not Platinum-only.

 

[Jibaku]

7) I wonder if Platinum Orb has its 20% effect still when fighting Diamond......
8) what will happen when A Diamond Frisker is sent out when Origin-tina is out.......

I just got Plat today so I kinda messed around with this
- Giratina-O does keep its boosts
- I didn't use a Frisker, but I went and did a mixed battle. A mixed battle is where you use the opponent's guys and vice versa. My brother picked up Giratina in his Diamond and used it against me. Giratina-O's sprite appears in my Platinum screen, and not on his screen (duh). He went to summary to check Gira's item. Platinum Orb is labeled as "???" in his Diamond. Also, Gira-O keeps his stats when used in Diamond.

 

[AJC]

I'm going to post it to my YouTube. The battle itself was a haxy piece of shit which I decided to run from, but the glitch is in there.

It's also not limited to Platinum, as this was a Platinum vs. Diamond battle.

Uploaded, it will be available as soon as it's done processing.



EDIT: Here is the video.


From the description:
1:38 and 1:47

The Rain Dance animation plays, but it damages my opponent as if it was Sandstorm. Then the regular Sandstorm animation + damage occurs as normal.

Note that before the glitch happened the first time, and my opponent sent out Persian, the phrase on the bottom of the screen was "Go for it, Persian!" as if I was the one sending out the Persian.

After my opponent sent in his own Tyranitar and Sandstream activated a second time, the glitch didn't happen anymore.

This was a Platinum vs. Diamond battle, so I guess this is not Platinum-only.

i noticed it only did the odd weather effects when you used pursuit until you did it was working normally

 

[kd24]

Couldnt find this, I think someone might have already answered it somewhere but I just don't know where and I would like confirmation on it.

If Gravity is in effect, Would a Poison / Flying-type such as Crobat be able to absorb Toxic Spikes upon switch in? This also goes for Weezing.

I know Iron Ball would allow you to absorb it but no idea on Gravity.

 

[obi]

Yes. I don't know the exact post, but that was confirmed.

 

[Syberia]

i noticed it only did the odd weather effects when you used pursuit until you did it was working normally

AFAIK, the glitch occurs totally randomly. I've used Pursuit plenty of times before, and it did not happen. I tried to re-create this situation again by Pursuiting another Luxray and switching to Persian, and everything happened as it normally would.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Posting to inform that Platinum updated U-Turn so that now even if you U-Turn to a Choice Pokemon, you can still choose a move outside of U-Turn.

Meaning: Scarf-Flygon U-Turns to CB Scizor, CB scizor used Bullet Punch

I'll post a video demonstrating this soon. Others who have Platinum can test it out for themselves.

edit:

Ok, here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHXKj5-0U90

I made sure to point out I have Choice Scar/Choice Band and U-Turn, and used U-Turn --> different attack both ways. Also started the video from the start to show I'm using the cart and DS only, no AR no R4, no nothing.

 

[Everstone]

This wasn't in the move description, but when a Flying Pokemon goes first and uses Roost at full health, it keeps its Flying type, as a wild Fearow I just fought used Roost first and an electric attack still hit super effective on it.

 

[Kefky]

I'm using Diamond and I didn't get locked in U-turn either, from Scarf to Scarf. I battled a friend who is using Platinum, so maybe it downloaded some kind of patch into my game?

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

I have a question for someone who has Platinum. Can a Machamp with No Guard still hit through Protect with its less accurate moves like it could in Diamond and Pearl? This was changed in PBR, and I'm wondering if it was changed in Platinum as well.

 

[jamespicone]

With regards to WiFi battling, both local and over the internets, has it been determined whether it's a client/server system or a more P2P system? That is, are all the battle mechanics done on one DS and then the results transferred, or do they both work out some of it, or what?

I'm asking because it's clearly relevant to these DP vs Platinum changes and whether or not they take effect. If the system is P2P, then we'd expect the behaviour to depend on which cart is running that particular mechanic - unless there's some sort of 'patching' behaviour - and if the system is client/server, we'd expect the behaviour to depend on which cart is the server - which could depend on which has the higher 'version' (That is, it could be set up so that Platinum is always the server), or who chose to 'become leader', or entirely random.

 

[Jibaku]

I've seen I think in C&C where people asked about Payback's power. Well I ran some tests (I couldn't use exact numbers here though-Payback doesn't work in the way I expected it to in doubles and I have no one around to test it with, so I used the Elite 4).

And I was particularly lucky.

Scenario:
(Platinum: Me vs Aaron)
Lv. 50 Lucario vs Lv. 49 Yanmega

His Yanmega is faster than me and used Double Team. I used Payback and took off about 40% of his HP. I wasn't sure whether this is the 50 BP or 100 BP, so I continued...

Aaron SWITCHED (yes you heard me) to a Lv. 51 Heracross. Lucario threw a Payback on the switch. it appears to do around 20%. As far as I know, Heracross' HP/Def is slightly lower than than Yanmega's, but it's two levels higher, and Payback is NVE against him. Hmmm....

I switched away and killed the rest of his team, leaving Yanmega

Yanmega uses Double Team and I Paybacked, putting him into the red zone.

Aaron Full Restores Yanmega, and I healed Payback's PP for no particular reason.

Yanmega DTs and I Payback for 40% damage.
Yanmega uses Air Slash and I used Payback. Yanmega's HP dropped to the yellow zone, ALMOST touching the red zone.

Verdict:
So as it seems, if the opponent does something before you, whether it may be switch, support or attack, Payback deals double damage.

So if someone were to test this out with actual numbers, that would be fine, but right now, that's my verdict

 

[Syberia]

With regards to WiFi battling, both local and over the internets, has it been determined whether it's a client/server system or a more P2P system? That is, are all the battle mechanics done on one DS and then the results transferred, or do they both work out some of it, or what?

I'm asking because it's clearly relevant to these DP vs Platinum changes and whether or not they take effect. If the system is P2P, then we'd expect the behaviour to depend on which cart is running that particular mechanic - unless there's some sort of 'patching' behaviour - and if the system is client/server, we'd expect the behaviour to depend on which cart is the server - which could depend on which has the higher 'version' (That is, it could be set up so that Platinum is always the server), or who chose to 'become leader', or entirely random.

I think it's "fair" to stick with Platinum rules, as otherwise people could have game mechanics changed on them every match depending on what "version" their opponent chose to run. It would sure suck if, in Chou's example, you used U-Turn to a choiced pokemon and expected to be able to switch moves, but couldn't because Shoddy decided you were going to be playing by D/P rules.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

I've seen I think in C&C where people asked about Payback's power. Well I ran some tests (I couldn't use exact numbers here though-Payback doesn't work in the way I expected it to in doubles and I have no one around to test it with, so I used the Elite 4).

And I was particularly lucky.

Scenario:
(Platinum: Me vs Aaron)
Lv. 50 Lucario vs Lv. 49 Yanmega

His Yanmega is faster than me and used Double Team. I used Payback and took off about 40% of his HP. I wasn't sure whether this is the 50 BP or 100 BP, so I continued...

Aaron SWITCHED (yes you heard me) to a Lv. 51 Heracross. Lucario threw a Payback on the switch. it appears to do around 20%. As far as I know, Heracross' HP/Def is slightly lower than than Yanmega's, but it's two levels higher, and Payback is NVE against him. Hmmm....

I switched away and killed the rest of his team, leaving Yanmega

Yanmega uses Double Team and I Paybacked, putting him into the red zone.

Aaron Full Restores Yanmega, and I healed Payback's PP for no particular reason.

Yanmega DTs and I Payback for 40% damage.
Yanmega uses Air Slash and I used Payback. Yanmega's HP dropped to the yellow zone, ALMOST touching the red zone.

Verdict:
So as it seems, if the opponent does something before you, whether it may be switch, support or attack, Payback deals double damage.

So if someone were to test this out with actual numbers, that would be fine, but right now, that's my verdict

I can't remember when this was tested, but here's our move description:

If the target has already attacked or switched, this move has double power.

Those results would seem to support that. I could use more information on the Pokemon's stats, though. I can't remember for the life of me what the stats of the Elite Four Pokemon are supposed to be.

Assuming no items, neutral natures, max IVs, and 0 EVs for all Pokemon:

Lucario's Payback against Yanmega:

50 BP - 15.19-18.35%
100 BP - 30.38-36.08%

against Heracross:

50 BP - 8.23-9.49%
100 BP - 15.82-18.99%

Yeah, it looks to me like we have it right.

 

[Syberia]

Just tested a few things this morning, namely what actually happens in-game when U-Turn and Pursuit are used together, and what happens when you use Explosion against a pokemon that has already fainted in the same turn due to Stealth Rock/Spikes damage.

In the first case, Azelf uses U-Turn against Scizor. It damages Scizor as normal, and then Scizor hits it with Pursuit as it is swithing out. On Shoddy, Scizor would go first and hit Azelf before it did any damage with U-Turn, resulting in a KO (provided the Azelf does not have a sash as it did in this example) and taking no damage in return.

As to the second point, Shoddy is correct. If a pokemon uses Explosion on a turn in which the opponent switches and is KOed immediately by an entry hazard, the user of Explosion does not faint, with the message "but there was no target..." One PP for Explosion is consumed, however. If the user of Explosion in this scenario is choiced, they are forced to either Explode again or switch out next turn.

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBrVaifgnYs

 

[X-Act]

Verdict:
So as it seems, if the opponent does something before you, whether it may be switch, support or attack, Payback deals double damage.

Yeah, we had tested this quite a long time ago (for the damage formula article) and had arrived at the same conclusion.

EDIT: In fact, in the damage formula article, its base power is stated to be

100 if the targeted Pokémon moves before the user, 50 otherwise.

 

[jamespicone]

I think it's "fair" to stick with Platinum rules, as otherwise people could have game mechanics changed on them every match depending on what "version" their opponent chose to run. It would sure suck if, in Chou's example, you used U-Turn to a choiced pokemon and expected to be able to switch moves, but couldn't because Shoddy decided you were going to be playing by D/P rules.

I'm not talking about shoddy - I'm talking about on-cart.