Well, could you at least try to convince the people opposed to the movement to be on your side? (I don't want to call you out specifically anyone can answer).
- Why is Obi's proposal the "best" idea possible?
- Why is making an effort to test BL's independently to form their own playable tier the worst idea possible?
- Why are people for Obi's proposal not for extending the proposal to the OU metagame? That would be fair.
I feel that testing the BL's independently from UU is a better idea. Obi's proposal just seems like it's creating alot of work that does not need to be created.
This is how I see Obi's proposal
- Throw all BL pokemon into UU to create a metagame that would be exactly the same as an independent testing of them.
- Throw the UU's that cannot compete into the new UU into NU (Which is going to be a whole lot of them) to create a similar metagame to what has already been founded.
It's seems like the proposal is creating double the work for basicly the same results. I mean I'm willing to be convinced that Obi's proposal is the best but I haven't heard a very good argument for it.
I mean he's not even willing to compromise on the subject. Such as testing his proposal away from this uu; at least initially to see what happens without ripping this one apart. After the testing away from this UU I think a vote could be in order to see which metagame should be the new UU or if they'd rather them be apart.
What is so horrible with that proposal?
A full metagame test is not a must to create a balanced and viable tier.
First of all I want to reiterate again that I have no problem with the idea you're supporting. However this is purely because the
only difference is that it preserves the current UU metagame, which many people like yourself have become heavily attached to. The important point I am making here is that when formulating an argument on this issue you must avoid any bias towards this particular metagame we have created. To do otherwise would mean that you are assigning a special status to this metagame when in fact there isn't any. The standard we have set for what qualifies as UU seems to have been completely arbitrarily defined, which can only be explained by some perceived notion of UU we have carried over from ADV to D/P.
Obi's proposal is the best idea
currently suggested because it is an attempt to restructure the tier system based on the fundamental definition of UU, which is any Pokemon that is not commonly used in the standard metagame. We have already established a working cutoff point for OU, and anything that falls below that should technically be eligible for UU. Some will inevitably be unbalancing in this environment and subsequently be promoted to a faux tier that acts as a ban list for UU. The point here is that we start out with the maximum possible number of Pokemon and work from the top downwards, which guarantees that we have the smallest possible ban list which is surely a good thing.
As for extending the proposal to OU, that is in fact possible right now given that we've had an Uber ladder for over three months. The Uber ladder currently has 14 'OUs' I think, which is obviously too centralizing for the standard metagame, but technically there is no reason why you couldn't create a standard balanced metagame from Ubers downwards. However in most people's eyes this testing has already confirmed who the major culprits are, and have singled out four possible Ubers for testing in OU, so to some extent this extension is already underway.
Also, please explain why you think Obi's proposal is creating 'double the work', because the way I see it the two methods are
completely identical. Once again the only difference is whether the current ladder is preserved or not, which is completely irrelevant to this issue for reasons I have already stated.
Evolutia, I agree entirely. As for those "many" pokemon that need to be moved up, I didn't say many, I said "too many". 2 or 3(i.e. Kabutops, Clefable) is, in my opinion, too many. We move those few up, than worry about what should be brought down. One at a time saves time, hassle and makes a lot more sense to me.
Strangely enough I agree mostly with evolutia too, but not with you. By introducing BLs one at a time into the current UU we are in fact not getting
any useful information whatsoever. Doing this would mean that we are continuing to base UU entirely on what we currently have, which is wrong as there is no justification for UU being the way it is. Recall the hypothetical scenario I brought up a while back in which our UU forms the standard metagame. Trying to test hundreds of Uber Pokemon one at a time is likely to achieve nothing, but we know full well from our current metagame that a balanced tier involving much stronger Pokemon is very much possible.
