Your point is bad because we should not be forced to adjust to overpowered things. That is the whole point of having a fucking ban list. Even worse is that you haven't even played the thing you are saying we should adjust to.
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DP Tier Discussion - BL and UU (mark 2)
- Thread starter Phuquoph
- Start date
Your point is bad because we should not be forced to adjust to overpowered things. That is the whole point of having a fucking ban list. Even worse is that you haven't even played the thing you are saying we should adjust to.
Can we just combine all the tiers together for a month, then create a couple tiers, and work on those?
While that may be a crappy solution, IMO it would be better than the constant bickering that goes on here.
While that may be a crappy solution, IMO it would be better than the constant bickering that goes on here.
Already been suggested, and most people think it is a silly way of doing things as people will probably just use BLs.
True... why use Aggron when you can use Rhyperior etc etc etc
It's still much less silly than an endless debate of theorymon though.
Well, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just like it used to be with Garchomp and Flygon, Magnezone and Magneton, Spiritomb and Sableye. The one that's outclassed will just be in a lower usage tier, and may be banned from that tier if they're too powerful.
Anyway, when is the proper UU ladder going to be started? After the October tier list gets released, or after the November one?
Thanks. That sounds cool. It should be pretty fun, doing the tier properly this time around. :)
If that's the case, how is Cynthi's/AoK's NU tier pointless? We still get four months to use it until the change comes into effect.
Completely, 100% pointless. It is bad enough that we as Smogon are even allowing the current UU metagame to stay.
You have 4 months to play with your garbage NU metagame based on a garbage UU metagame, but it is 100% pointless for Smogon as we will NOT be making an official tier below UU until UU is fixed.
The extent of our compromising is letting UU remain as is for now.
Have nice day, my favorite user.
You have 4 months to play with your garbage NU metagame based on a garbage UU metagame, but it is 100% pointless for Smogon as we will NOT be making an official tier below UU until UU is fixed.
The extent of our compromising is letting UU remain as is for now.
Have nice day, my favorite user.
You can use it after the proper tier list gets made too. It makes no difference. It's just a group of Pokemon you're using to make a metagame. So long as people don't try to make it have any significance in the tier listing process it's fine.
Plus the NU tier you're trying to make will look nothing like the NU tier we'll end up with eventually. The power of the UU tier will, hopefully, be much higher than it is now, and likewize, that will have an effect on the NU tier. If anything, the the metagame you're attempting to make will bear the most resemblance to the usage tier that comes below NU, and it'll be ages until Smogon get round to making that.
lol, That came outta nowhere when I was reading all this.
I think I agree with you though.
It won't. I don't see why it would. It'sincredibly bulky, has a great attack stat backed by STAB Earthquake, a reliable recovery move (something take for granted, and is one of the most popular starters with SR.
Following Suggestions for UU/BL
I Believe that the following pokemon should be moved to UU, because of the reasons provided.
Kadabra.
Kadabra's stats easily make it a candidate for UU, with 105 base speed and 120 base SAtk, it easily can match it with Ninetales, 70 base SPdef also help, and with access to CM, it would make a great sweeper.
It also has its' disadvantiges, it's HP and Def stats are really low, so anything that's remotely faster then Kadabra can KO him easily. He has the stats of a UU pokemon, and can be stopped, with the right counter.
Dusclops.
With Dusclops's (did I spell that right?) great defenses, it would make a great mixed wall, 130 base in both of the defenses means that it would be able to take hits from unboosted pokemon attacks, plus with it's ghost typing, it is immune to all of the Sub-Punchers out there. (Poliwrath, Aggron, Ect)
But once again, it's not broken because of its' weak HP, only base 40, means that it will reach a max of 284, when most UU sweepers get to 250 without any EV investment. It's attack is also reasonable, meaning that it can fight back, but not with much force.
So I think that both of those pokemon should be moved up to the UU tier, I don't believe that they would drastically change the tier, because they both have their weak spots, and can be KO'd like every other pokemon.
I'd also like to have the following pokemon moved from UU, into BL;
Aerodactyl.
With 105 base attack, and 130 base speed, it can out-speed almost everything and proceed to KO, can set up the fastest rocks in UU, and is only out sped by Electrode (not counting scarfers) so it's basically the Deoxys-e of UU, powerful, fast and can rip through teams late game. I believe that it's to good for the UU environment, as it can easily fair in OU teams, and because of its superior attack and speed to the rest of the UU tier.
So those are my recommendations to the UU/BL tiers, if you don't think that the actions which I have suggested are ones which are worthy of change, then that's fine but I just wanted to throw these ideas out there.
I Believe that the following pokemon should be moved to UU, because of the reasons provided.
Kadabra.
Kadabra's stats easily make it a candidate for UU, with 105 base speed and 120 base SAtk, it easily can match it with Ninetales, 70 base SPdef also help, and with access to CM, it would make a great sweeper.
It also has its' disadvantiges, it's HP and Def stats are really low, so anything that's remotely faster then Kadabra can KO him easily. He has the stats of a UU pokemon, and can be stopped, with the right counter.
Dusclops.
With Dusclops's (did I spell that right?) great defenses, it would make a great mixed wall, 130 base in both of the defenses means that it would be able to take hits from unboosted pokemon attacks, plus with it's ghost typing, it is immune to all of the Sub-Punchers out there. (Poliwrath, Aggron, Ect)
But once again, it's not broken because of its' weak HP, only base 40, means that it will reach a max of 284, when most UU sweepers get to 250 without any EV investment. It's attack is also reasonable, meaning that it can fight back, but not with much force.
So I think that both of those pokemon should be moved up to the UU tier, I don't believe that they would drastically change the tier, because they both have their weak spots, and can be KO'd like every other pokemon.
I'd also like to have the following pokemon moved from UU, into BL;
Aerodactyl.
With 105 base attack, and 130 base speed, it can out-speed almost everything and proceed to KO, can set up the fastest rocks in UU, and is only out sped by Electrode (not counting scarfers) so it's basically the Deoxys-e of UU, powerful, fast and can rip through teams late game. I believe that it's to good for the UU environment, as it can easily fair in OU teams, and because of its superior attack and speed to the rest of the UU tier.
So those are my recommendations to the UU/BL tiers, if you don't think that the actions which I have suggested are ones which are worthy of change, then that's fine but I just wanted to throw these ideas out there.
Dusclops.
With Dusclops's (did I spell that right?) great defenses, it would make a great mixed wall, 130 base in both of the defenses means that it would be able to take hits from unboosted pokemon attacks, plus with it's ghost typing, it is immune to all of the Sub-Punchers out there. (Poliwrath, Aggron, Ect)
But once again, it's not broken because of its' weak HP, speed and SDef, it's attack is reasonable, meaning that it can fight back, but not with much force.
I think you made an error. Also as of now NFE's aren't really allowed in UU last time I checked (I could be wrong though).
Also Dusclops was an OU Pokemon before his evolution was introduced. His evolution only has a few base points over Dusclops meaning that Dusclops is probably too strong for UU. Also low HP hasn't harmed Dusnoir's placement that much and I doubt it would harm Dusclop's.
Meanwhile saying it should be UU because it has low speed is pretty dumb. 130 base defenses means it is obviously built to be a wall. Walls usually have low speed. That doesn't work against them as they have the defenses to take attacks.
No, it's defenses are 130, attack 70, speed 25, HP 45 and SAtk 60, check here
Oh, and i've also changed the "SDef" one, thanks for pointing that out too.
Yeah, they're not allowed in UU, which is why I want them moved to UU (and dactyl move to BL)
base 40 HP, means that it can only make it to 284, which isn't overly much, as most sweepers make it to 250 without any EV investment.
I was pointing out some of the areas which it struggles with, 25 base speed means that it is out-sped by steelix, and that I wanted people to know what its stats were, it wasn't there to say "This should be in UU because of its base 25 speed" it was there to say "It has 25 base speed, 60 base SAtk, and 40 base HP, which aren't very good"
Looking at the post I realise that that is how it seems that I said, so i'll change that, thank-you for pointing that out.
NFE's were allowed in the Testing UU metagame that saw a ton of BL's like Weezing moved down...I don't know if they have suddenly been banned again...
The majority of Smogon has decided that NFE's ought to be eventually tiered. That does not say anything about where they will end up.
If we go with the current strength level of UU, Duskclops would probably end up as BL, not because of being NFE but because of its own strength. When we site NFE pokemon that would likely be BL if the NFEs would have been openly tiered, the names that come up most often are Chansey, Rhyhorn, Duskclops, Haunter and Kadabra (wow, 4/5 are first gen, lol). These pokemon obviously have excellent abilities that of their own regard would probably sit them in BL (obviously never making it to OU because they're outclassed by their evolutions).
In regards to duskclops, all I can say is that it would probably still be OU if not for Dusknoir. As a funny anecdote, when DP came out people were like "lol Duskclops evo but no banette evo" since it was obvious which one needed it. haha
If we go with the current strength level of UU, Duskclops would probably end up as BL, not because of being NFE but because of its own strength. When we site NFE pokemon that would likely be BL if the NFEs would have been openly tiered, the names that come up most often are Chansey, Rhyhorn, Duskclops, Haunter and Kadabra (wow, 4/5 are first gen, lol). These pokemon obviously have excellent abilities that of their own regard would probably sit them in BL (obviously never making it to OU because they're outclassed by their evolutions).
In regards to duskclops, all I can say is that it would probably still be OU if not for Dusknoir. As a funny anecdote, when DP came out people were like "lol Duskclops evo but no banette evo" since it was obvious which one needed it. haha
Ok, I didn't know that that had happened, but I would like to see some (good) NFE's in the UU tier sometime soon.
Well, even if they do go into BL, what use would they be. There's no-where where you can only battle with BL's, and BL's is only a "faux" tier anyway. They won't get much use because their evo's in OU are much better, so moving them to UU would at least give them some usage.
Yeah, well Dusknoir is a pokemon which never needed to exist, as you said there should have been a banette evo instead.
Yeah they are banned right now on the smogon shoddy server, if you try to find a UU battle with a pokemon in the NFE tier, is says that they're not allowed.
I Believe that the following pokemon should be moved to UU, because of the reasons provided.
Kadabra.
Kadabra's stats easily make it a candidate for UU, with 105 base speed and 120 base SAtk, it easily can match it with Ninetales, 70 base SPdef also help, and with access to CM, it would make a great sweeper.
It also has its' disadvantiges, it's HP and Def stats are really low, so anything that's remotely faster then Kadabra can KO him easily. He has the stats of a UU pokemon, and can be stopped, with the right counter.
Dusclops.
With Dusclops's (did I spell that right?) great defenses, it would make a great mixed wall, 130 base in both of the defenses means that it would be able to take hits from unboosted pokemon attacks, plus with it's ghost typing, it is immune to all of the Sub-Punchers out there. (Poliwrath, Aggron, Ect)
But once again, it's not broken because of its' weak HP, only base 40, means that it will reach a max of 284, when most UU sweepers get to 250 without any EV investment. It's attack is also reasonable, meaning that it can fight back, but not with much force.
So I think that both of those pokemon should be moved up to the UU tier, I don't believe that they would drastically change the tier, because they both have their weak spots, and can be KO'd like every other pokemon.
I'd also like to have the following pokemon moved from UU, into BL;
Aerodactyl.
With 105 base attack, and 130 base speed, it can out-speed almost everything and proceed to KO, can set up the fastest rocks in UU, and is only out sped by Electrode (not counting scarfers) so it's basically the Deoxys-e of UU, powerful, fast and can rip through teams late game. I believe that it's to good for the UU environment, as it can easily fair in OU teams, and because of its superior attack and speed to the rest of the UU tier.
So those are my recommendations to the UU/BL tiers, if you don't think that the actions which I have suggested are ones which are worthy of change, then that's fine but I just wanted to throw these ideas out there.
I agree with everythng you say ecept one thing. Although I do agree with the fact that Aero is just broken in UU just because it can be used in OU doesn't mean it should be banned from UU. Remember Tentacruel?
See, the problem is that Tentacruel isn't good in OU for the same reason that it fares well in UU. In UU, Tentacruel makes a bulky sweeper that can also Rapid Spin effectively, similar to Starmie. Aerodactyl is good in OU because it's a great SR setup poke that can also hit relatively hard with a decent movepool, just like it is in UU, only it's even better at it in UU because its stats are insane.
I said that it has superior attack and speed to the rest of the UU tier too, it's also able to set up the fastest rocks in the UU metagame, I was saying that it can fair in OU because that's how fast and powerful he is. It also shows that he is superior to the UU metagame.
As Sins said, its stats are insane, 130 base speed isn't something to take lightly, and since Electrode is bleh, it's probably the most dangerous and fastest sweepers in UU (W/O a Scarf)
And Dusclops would also help alot of teams, with all of those choice's fighting types around there (scarflee, scarfape, bandcroak) Dusclops would make a great addition, being immune to their most powerful attack, and can fire a WoW right back in their face.
I'd rather not discuss about NFE's in general yet until the "actual UU metagame" comes to pretty much a stable environment. First off we have to take into account that we need to test other BLs as well before we hit a huge step into going over NFEs. Also, the addition of Platinum moves will also give the NFE and NU project to a halt seeing as we have to re-vise other threats in the UU metagame and see how they stand.
As for NFEs I'd like to throw my opinion that they shouldn't be discussed until everything is "all clear".
EDIT: Dusclops and Kadabra as UU seem lol no offense.
As for NFEs I'd like to throw my opinion that they shouldn't be discussed until everything is "all clear".
EDIT: Dusclops and Kadabra as UU seem lol no offense.
Have you used SP on steelix? You are only going to manage around 40% and with the attack and def drop absol wont be staying in.
A +2 Superpower from max Attack LO Absol OHKOs Steelix 100% of the time. Even max Defense Drapion takes up to 86% from it, and Armaldo up to 89%, although he takes a similar amount of damage from Sucker Punch. Most others risk being haxed from Super Luck, which IMO is the most annoying thing about Absol.