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DPP Heatran (Trapper)*
- Thread starter Philip7086
- Start date
Updated with the final version of the set! Thanks for all the help everybody, and please check out the new first paragraph which was added for the truncating project.
hmm I like the way your summary paragraph reads right now but at the same time it feels like something is missing without move descriptions. what to do... aaaa
fixed mostly awkward phrasing / sentence structure
add / change
delete
[SET]
name: HeaTrap
move 1: Magma Storm
move 2: Hidden Power Grass
move 3: Dragon Pulse / Explosion
move 4: Explosion / Taunt
item: Shuca Berry / Wide Lens / Passho Berry
nature: Modest
evs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The purpose of this Heatran is to trap your opponent’s switch-in with Magma Storm and deal with it accordingly. This set is designed to eliminate most of Heatran’s common counters, including Swampert, Blissey, Latias, and Salamence. Magma Storm does not only force opposing Pokemon to stay in, but it deals 6.25% of extra damage at the end of every turn, allowing Heatran to do just enough damage to score KOs that he otherwise would not be able to. Much like other baiting sets, the purpose of HeaTrap is to help clear the way for other Pokemon to sweep later on by eliminating common counters. What separates this set from the pack is that once Heatran lands a Magma Storm, his opponent cannot switch out to scout if it is indeed a bait set or not; the KO is essentially guaranteed.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>With a Modest nature and 252 EVs in Special Attack, Heatran can KO a 4 HP Latias with Dragon Pulse if Latias switches into Magma Storm and Stealth Rock with Dragon Pulse, whereas Latias cannot even OHKO Heatran with even a Timid Choice Specs Surf. Swampert and Blissey cannot survive Hidden Power Grass or Explosion, respectively, after Magma Storm and Stealth Rock damage. The Speed EVs allow Heatran to outpace neutral natured Tyranitar, in case you need Heatran to finish one off with Hidden Power Grass. With Shuca Berry, Heatran also survives an Earthquake from the standard New MixMence with 16 Attack EVs and Life Orb, and KOes back with Dragon Pulse after Stealth Rock or Magma Storm damage. Alternatively, a spread of 128 HP / 164 Def / 216 SpA may be used to guarantee that a max Attack Salamence with Life Orb can never KO you with Earthquake even after Stealth Rock damage. This spread makes for a slower and slightly weaker Heatran, but still guarantees the same KOs previously listed.</p>
<p>If you are not concerned about Salamence, who takes a hefty amount of damage switching into Magma Storm anyway, then you may want to consider Wide Lens over Shuca Berry. The biggest drawback to this set is obviously Magma Storm’s poor accuracy, which can be somewhat alleviated with Wide Lens, giving it an effective accuracy of 77%. Passho Berry is also an effective item choice, as it allows Heatran to withstand blows from Starmie, Suicune, and other Water-type Pokemon, and KO back with Hidden Power Grass or Explosioin.</p>
<p>If you pack a powerful Pursuit user on your team, then you may also want to consider Taunt over Explosion. With Taunt and Magma Storm, Heatran can prevent Blissey from healing, switching, or using a status move. You can then switch in your Pursuit user to seal Blissey’s fate without sacrificing Heatran. If eliminating Blissey is your main objective, then running Taunt with Explosion will guarantee a KO on Blissey, who can no longer Protect on your Explosion. Taunt also allows Heatran to beat some of its other counters, such as Vaporeon, who won't be able to heal anymore and after it takes a hefty hit from Hidden Power Grass. The biggest selling point of Taunt combined with Magma Storm, however, is that it allows you to switch in another sweeper and score a free boost as your Taunted opponent switches out, assuming they can't hurt your sweeper directly.</p>
<p>This Heatran should be used primarily as a support Pokemon; it works very well on teams who have Pokemon that share the same counters as Heatran. Teammates that benefit from this Heatran set include Tyranitar and Salamence, who enjoy the absence of Swampert. Offensive Suicune, Life Orb Latias, offensive Zapdos, and Sub Petaya Empoleon are also excellent team options because they have a much easier time sweeping once Blissey is gone. Finally, Infernape makes a great partner, because it can be very destructive once Latias has been eliminated. You should also consider teammates who can take advantage of Tyranitar, Gyarados and Vaporeon, who are the three most common Heatran counters that this set cannot reliably deal with. Gliscor serves as a great Tyranitar check who also has an easy time switching into Fighting- and Ground-type attacks aimed at Heatran, and Celebi and Vaporeon do an excellent job at covering Gyarados and Vaporeon. It is also recommended that you set Stealth Rock up before getting this Heatran out, as it nets a lot of kills with the extra damage that Stealth Rock provides. If you are looking for a purely offensive Heatran, then other sets might prove more effective. However, when it comes to taking out the threats mentioned, no Pokemon does a better job than HeaTrap.</p>
fixed mostly awkward phrasing / sentence structure
add / change
delete
[SET]
name: HeaTrap
move 1: Magma Storm
move 2: Hidden Power Grass
move 3: Dragon Pulse / Explosion
move 4: Explosion / Taunt
item: Shuca Berry / Wide Lens / Passho Berry
nature: Modest
evs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The purpose of this Heatran is to trap your opponent’s switch-in with Magma Storm and deal with it accordingly. This set is designed to eliminate most of Heatran’s common counters, including Swampert, Blissey, Latias, and Salamence. Magma Storm does not only force opposing Pokemon to stay in, but it deals 6.25% of extra damage at the end of every turn, allowing Heatran to do just enough damage to score KOs that he otherwise would not be able to. Much like other baiting sets, the purpose of HeaTrap is to help clear the way for other Pokemon to sweep later on by eliminating common counters. What separates this set from the pack is that once Heatran lands a Magma Storm, his opponent cannot switch out to scout if it is indeed a bait set or not; the KO is essentially guaranteed.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>With a Modest nature and 252 EVs in Special Attack, Heatran can KO a 4 HP Latias with Dragon Pulse if Latias switches into Magma Storm and Stealth Rock with Dragon Pulse, whereas Latias cannot even OHKO Heatran with even a Timid Choice Specs Surf. Swampert and Blissey cannot survive Hidden Power Grass or Explosion, respectively, after Magma Storm and Stealth Rock damage. The Speed EVs allow Heatran to outpace neutral natured Tyranitar, in case you need Heatran to finish one off with Hidden Power Grass. With Shuca Berry, Heatran also survives an Earthquake from the standard New MixMence with 16 Attack EVs and Life Orb, and KOes back with Dragon Pulse after Stealth Rock or Magma Storm damage. Alternatively, a spread of 128 HP / 164 Def / 216 SpA may be used to guarantee that a max Attack Salamence with Life Orb can never KO you with Earthquake even after Stealth Rock damage. This spread makes for a slower and slightly weaker Heatran, but still guarantees the same KOs previously listed.</p>
<p>If you are not concerned about Salamence, who takes a hefty amount of damage switching into Magma Storm anyway, then you may want to consider Wide Lens over Shuca Berry. The biggest drawback to this set is obviously Magma Storm’s poor accuracy, which can be somewhat alleviated with Wide Lens, giving it an effective accuracy of 77%. Passho Berry is also an effective item choice, as it allows Heatran to withstand blows from Starmie, Suicune, and other Water-type Pokemon, and KO back with Hidden Power Grass or Explosioin.</p>
<p>If you pack a powerful Pursuit user on your team, then you may also want to consider Taunt over Explosion. With Taunt and Magma Storm, Heatran can prevent Blissey from healing, switching, or using a status move. You can then switch in your Pursuit user to seal Blissey’s fate without sacrificing Heatran. If eliminating Blissey is your main objective, then running Taunt with Explosion will guarantee a KO on Blissey, who can no longer Protect on your Explosion. Taunt also allows Heatran to beat some of its other counters, such as Vaporeon, who won't be able to heal anymore and after it takes a hefty hit from Hidden Power Grass. The biggest selling point of Taunt combined with Magma Storm, however, is that it allows you to switch in another sweeper and score a free boost as your Taunted opponent switches out, assuming they can't hurt your sweeper directly.</p>
<p>This Heatran should be used primarily as a support Pokemon; it works very well on teams who have Pokemon that share the same counters as Heatran. Teammates that benefit from this Heatran set include Tyranitar and Salamence, who enjoy the absence of Swampert. Offensive Suicune, Life Orb Latias, offensive Zapdos, and Sub Petaya Empoleon are also excellent team options because they have a much easier time sweeping once Blissey is gone. Finally, Infernape makes a great partner, because it can be very destructive once Latias has been eliminated. You should also consider teammates who can take advantage of Tyranitar, Gyarados and Vaporeon, who are the three most common Heatran counters that this set cannot reliably deal with. Gliscor serves as a great Tyranitar check who also has an easy time switching into Fighting- and Ground-type attacks aimed at Heatran, and Celebi and Vaporeon do an excellent job at covering Gyarados and Vaporeon. It is also recommended that you set Stealth Rock up before getting this Heatran out, as it nets a lot of kills with the extra damage that Stealth Rock provides. If you are looking for a purely offensive Heatran, then other sets might prove more effective. However, when it comes to taking out the threats mentioned, no Pokemon does a better job than HeaTrap.</p>
I haven't seen a max speed neutral natured Tyranitar in a very long time. Most neutral speed Tyranitars only need a little bit of speed investment to do their job, such as Choice Band, which runs enough speed to outrun base 70's with small investments. The Tyranitars that need lots of speed (Scarf, DD, Bait, etc) are all positive natured, with Scarf and DD having the ability to boost its speed even higher. Neutral natured scarf and DD Tyranitars will lose important speed battles to Gengar, Starmie, and max speed Infernape, so in my opinion there's no reason to not run +speed on those sets.
There may be some Swords Dance Scizors around that have enough speed to outrun the 221 threshold, but max speed is more popular for the SD set. from December's stats:
There are also appliance Rotoms that try to outrun the 221 tier. Around 20-21% of heat and wash Rotoms run 50-100 speed evs (why this is still an important tier is beyond me).
Despite some Scizors and Rotoms floating around the 221 speed tier, I don't think this tier is worthwhile to outspeed. You can outrun max speed Scizor by investing only 32 additional speed EVs. +speed Tyranitar and those that try to outspeed it (243-around 246) may also be a worthwhile tier to beat. Surpassing that tier will in turn outrun +speed non-scarfed Magnezone and neutral speed Breloom and Metagross.
Below the 221 tier, the next important tier is 0 ev appliance Rotom, which sits at 208 speed. Dropping down to the 209-211ish range (which would also outrun min Suicune) would be more beneficial to Heatran's bulk without sacrificing important speed matchups.
I have no experience writing or performing critical edits on analyses, but I've almost never had to deal with the 221-223ish tier in my Shoddy experience.
There may be some Swords Dance Scizors around that have enough speed to outrun the 221 threshold, but max speed is more popular for the SD set. from December's stats:
Code:
| Scizor | Speed EV | None | 49.7 |
| Scizor | Speed EV | Very Low (<50) | 14.0 |
[B]| Scizor | Speed EV | Max | 13.2 |
| Scizor | Speed EV | Very High (200+) | 10.4 |[/B]There are also appliance Rotoms that try to outrun the 221 tier. Around 20-21% of heat and wash Rotoms run 50-100 speed evs (why this is still an important tier is beyond me).
Despite some Scizors and Rotoms floating around the 221 speed tier, I don't think this tier is worthwhile to outspeed. You can outrun max speed Scizor by investing only 32 additional speed EVs. +speed Tyranitar and those that try to outspeed it (243-around 246) may also be a worthwhile tier to beat. Surpassing that tier will in turn outrun +speed non-scarfed Magnezone and neutral speed Breloom and Metagross.
Below the 221 tier, the next important tier is 0 ev appliance Rotom, which sits at 208 speed. Dropping down to the 209-211ish range (which would also outrun min Suicune) would be more beneficial to Heatran's bulk without sacrificing important speed matchups.
I have no experience writing or performing critical edits on analyses, but I've almost never had to deal with the 221-223ish tier in my Shoddy experience.
I agree with your points, and have fixed the EV spread to outpace Scizor, and those aiming to beat Scizor by one point. For a bulky spread, I already had one listed in the additional comments. Ironically, the speed and defense in the two sets just had to be swapped.
"Passho Berry is also an effective item choice, as it allows Heatran to withstand blows from Starmie, Suicune, and other Water-type Pokemon, and KO back with Hidden Power Grass or Explosioin."
Quick spelling fix on "Explosion."
Quick spelling fix on "Explosion."
According to the calculated stats from Smogon Damage Calculator, the example of Magnezone that you provided would be running Timid/Naive nature with 216 Spe EV which makes it run at 231 Spe. Magnezone cannot have 230 Spe, since at 212 Spe EV Magnezone will have 229 Spe.
I'm thinking you could change the main spread to 124 HP / 216 SpA / 168 Spe.
At 168 Spe EV, Heatran will reach 232 Spe. Another speed level for Heatran to reach could be 241 Spe with 204 Spe EV, which will guarantee Heatran to outrun Magnezone. But then it's better to stick with 168 Spe EV as most Magnezone will rarely ever run at speed above 231.
Thanks everybody. I made a final spread tweak, and made all the edits.
This is the final set and writeup. It is ready for upload!
This is the final set and writeup. It is ready for upload!
sorry for the late post but i see no mention of opposing heatran who often has substitute and will survive explosion regardless, if its the scarf set it may still sweep your team after the damage from explosion.
In fact heatran take less damage from explosion than gyarados after intimidate (obvious i know) and is'nt Stealth Rock weak making it a better counter for this set than gyarados.
In fact heatran take less damage from explosion than gyarados after intimidate (obvious i know) and is'nt Stealth Rock weak making it a better counter for this set than gyarados.
I went ahead and uploaded the set, so people can check it out while I'm working on the full Heatran truncating project.
Thanks again to those who helped edit!
Thanks again to those who helped edit!