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Pokémon Dracovish
- Thread starter Marigold
- Start date
- Status
Not gonna lie, I think Outrage of all moves is dead weight on this set. I find myself liking it less and less because every other dragon outspeeds it bar Appletun. Normally I’d say stick with the stab, but this thing is so valuable as a wall breaker that baiting an Outrage will probably lead to it being ko’d By something faster. I feel ice fang is the way to go, hits more for super effective, hits seismitoad neutrally, doesn’t lock you into outrage, and still covers dragons.
Ice Fang is definitely not worth it.
FR: 170*1.5(Strong Jaw)*1.5(STAB)=380
380/2(resist)=190
Outrage: 120*1.5(STAB)=180
Psychic Fang: 85*1.5(Strong Jaw)=130
Crunch: 80*1.5(Strong Jaw)=120
Ice Fang: 65*1.5(Strong Jaw)=100
380/2(resist)=190
Outrage: 120*1.5(STAB)=180
Psychic Fang: 85*1.5(Strong Jaw)=130
Crunch: 80*1.5(Strong Jaw)=120
Ice Fang: 65*1.5(Strong Jaw)=100
I’d definitely say keep Crunch for Jellicent, maybe Outrage for Dragons, though locking yourself in is a bad idea in this meta. Fourth move, umm...Sleep Talk? I don’t see a reason to run anything else.
I think ice fang is just used for appletun, since fishious rend doesn't get the 2hko and I don't believe crunch or psychic fang do either. It's niche, but sleep talk isn't that useful when sleep isn't exactly much of an issue either this gen.
It's annoying that Rend doesn't OHKO Dragapult and Vish is OHKOed by Dragon Darts or Draco Meteor com Pult. Also even after Sticky Webs Vish can't outspeed Pult. Dragapult is the most common counter to Vish if it can switch-in safely first.
Scarf Jolly Dracovish can outspeed Modest/Adamant Dragapult and OHKO in rain, guaranteed after rocks:
252 Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (Doubled) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragapult in Rain: 308-363 (96.8 - 114.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Yeah, I'm suffering with my Adamant Band out of rain in cartridge against Dragapults. Gonna get a Scarf Jolly when I make a rain team then.
If playing Doubles, Scarf Adamant with Tailwind support should suffice against most Dragapult, I feel.
The reason for running Ice fang over outrage isn't power, it's your speed tier. If you are running Adamant Band, you are only outspeeding one dragon and that's applton. Locking yourself into a move with band that you can't switch out of is not worth losing something that is a walking, chomping, tactical nuke. Scarf is a different story as you can outspeed most non scarfed dragon's. But for a banded set, Outrage may hit hard, but the inability to switch on the second turn leaves it open for retaliation by every faster dragon in SWSD. On a band, i'd rather hit something a little weaker that resists me and switch out than allow for something to revenge kill me when i can't.
But in that case, why run Ice Fang? Yes, Appleton, sure, but every other Dragon? You’re better off clicking Fishious Rend. That way, you do nearly the same damage, and if you mispredict the switch you’re still hitting with your nuke.
(Outrage is not for Dragons. Outrage is for Gastrodon.)
Honestly, the fourth move is so damn irrelevant I've just been running Facade for Max Strike's Speed drop (which has turned out surprisingly useful).
It net's a higher chance of OHKO on Offensive Kommo-o sets ( and there are alot of Kommo-o sets running around). Once again, it's not about power, it's about usability with Band. If outrage is baited out, Dracovish is dead to nearly every dragon if it's banded. That is why Scarf with Outrage is better. Im not saying the fourth move must be Ice Fang. I"m saying on a band set, Outrage is more easily countered.
something I haven't seen pointed out yet is that it's quite easy to set a sticky web up before sending out Dracovish, thus making it more reliable to outspeed things.
going by my calculations, a 252 spe/hardy nature can outspeed a pokemon with upto 371 speed, or a 252 EV/jolly nature can outspeed upto a pokemon with 408 speed, meaning that, if I'm using this calculator right, Sticky web allows a jolly dracovish to just outspeed a jolly barraskewda that isn't in rain
going by my calculations, a 252 spe/hardy nature can outspeed a pokemon with upto 371 speed, or a 252 EV/jolly nature can outspeed upto a pokemon with 408 speed, meaning that, if I'm using this calculator right, Sticky web allows a jolly dracovish to just outspeed a jolly barraskewda that isn't in rain
Thats how my team is set up actually. Sticky web lead with support agaisnt the most popular spinners (aka excadrill) and weather setters (since rain barraskewda is impossible to outspeed) to let dracovish run free
So why are people arguing over coverage? The best set is Fishious Rend / Outrage / Crunch / Psychic Fangs.
FR doesn't need an explanation.
Outrage 95% of the time will be Max Dragon or otherwise be used against faster water resists. It may see use late game busting through bad matchups like Gastrodon + Gyarados or other scenarios where you might actually not want to click FR. Dracovish has good bulk but bad speed so there will certainly be rare scenarios where Outrage cleans up but not FR. Lastly Max Dragon lowers attack so in a pinch you can Dynamax against Gyarados to try and negate a sweep when locked into something else.
Crunch beats Jellicent without locking you into Outrage.
Psychic Fang kills Toxapex.
I honestly don't see any other realistic options. Ice Fang hits like one thing, Facade and Body Slam are useless (Facade is weaker than FR even when burned), Earthquake has the same coverage as FR but weaker, Iron Head is weak, Stone Edge hits nothing, Low Kick does nothing to Dynamax, and Leech Life is far too weak. Idk maybe it has some other option but they seem way too situational outside of the big 4.
FR doesn't need an explanation.
Outrage 95% of the time will be Max Dragon or otherwise be used against faster water resists. It may see use late game busting through bad matchups like Gastrodon + Gyarados or other scenarios where you might actually not want to click FR. Dracovish has good bulk but bad speed so there will certainly be rare scenarios where Outrage cleans up but not FR. Lastly Max Dragon lowers attack so in a pinch you can Dynamax against Gyarados to try and negate a sweep when locked into something else.
Crunch beats Jellicent without locking you into Outrage.
Psychic Fang kills Toxapex.
I honestly don't see any other realistic options. Ice Fang hits like one thing, Facade and Body Slam are useless (Facade is weaker than FR even when burned), Earthquake has the same coverage as FR but weaker, Iron Head is weak, Stone Edge hits nothing, Low Kick does nothing to Dynamax, and Leech Life is far too weak. Idk maybe it has some other option but they seem way too situational outside of the big 4.
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If you really care about going from FR’s 31% chance to OHKO after rocks to Ice Fang’s 43% chance, then just run Psychic Fangs and guarantee the OHKO, which also 2-shots Toxapex. Ice Fang hits nothing other coverage doesn’t do better.
You keep taking me out of context. Of the post I originally commented on, that was already a choice move. Your arguing with yourself at this point and not acknowledging that this is not a power issue I’m talking about, but a speed + item issue. It doesn’t have to be ice fang, any coverage move will suffice provided it allows you to switch out where Outrage doesn’t. Once again I will say it, Outrage is better with scarf, not with Band.
If you want to outspeed max speed dragapult, just set up tailwind. In rain with tailwind, banded adamant vish OHKO's dragapult and OHKO's/2HKO's most other mons not named appleturn, flapple or with water absorb because it has 498 speed with tailwind up. This lets it hit most things first and kill most things immediately. And the swap to a water absorb mon is quite predictable because of how large of a threat vish is so you can easily either counterswap or use a coverage move to hit the incoming vish check.
Is there even a reason to use Ice Fang when Appletun has Thick Fat?
Banded Ice Fang 2HKOes regardless of thick fat and locking into Outrage isn’t super optimal
Nobody:
This thread:
This thread:
The year is 2019.
We, an entire Smogon forum, are shaking.
Teambuilding died Nov. 15.
Food will last four days.
Oxygen, even less.
Every single OU player is forced to run Gastrodon AND another Water Absorb user.
Gastrodon itself is crying, it lost Toxic at the Galar checkpoint.
Our hopes became thinner every hour, every minute.
Some wet steps coming near our bunker.
It may be the end.
Kissed Ferrothorn and Toxapex goodbye.
I love you Molly. Tell our daughter the truth.
The wet steps are speeding up.
A tantrum.
He knows we are here.
He is banging his head on the door.
Some teeth chewed the metal door.
Water is dripping.
Goodbye my love.
We, an entire Smogon forum, are shaking.
Teambuilding died Nov. 15.
Food will last four days.
Oxygen, even less.
Every single OU player is forced to run Gastrodon AND another Water Absorb user.
Gastrodon itself is crying, it lost Toxic at the Galar checkpoint.
Our hopes became thinner every hour, every minute.
Some wet steps coming near our bunker.
It may be the end.
Kissed Ferrothorn and Toxapex goodbye.
I love you Molly. Tell our daughter the truth.
The wet steps are speeding up.
A tantrum.
He knows we are here.
He is banging his head on the door.
Some teeth chewed the metal door.
Water is dripping.
Goodbye my love.
wait, Gastrodon can't learn toxic anymore?Nobody:
This thread:
The year is 2019.
We, an entire Smogon forum, are shaking.
Teambuilding died Nov. 15.
Food will last four days.
Oxygen, even less.
Every single OU player is forced to run Gastrodon AND another Water Absorb user.
Gastrodon itself is crying, it lost Toxic at the Galar checkpoint.
Our hopes became thinner every hour, every minute.
Some wet steps coming near our bunker.
It may be the end.
Kissed Ferrothorn and Toxapex goodbye.
I love you Molly. Tell our daughter the truth.
The wet steps are speeding up.
A tantrum.
He knows we are here.
He is banging his head on the door.
Some teeth chewed the metal door.
Water is dripping.
Goodbye my love.
A based copypasta for a based Pokemon.Nobody:
This thread:
The year is 2019.
We, an entire Smogon forum, are shaking.
Teambuilding died Nov. 15.
Food will last four days.
Oxygen, even less.
Every single OU player is forced to run Gastrodon AND another Water Absorb user.
Gastrodon itself is crying, it lost Toxic at the Galar checkpoint.
Our hopes became thinner every hour, every minute.
Some wet steps coming near our bunker.
It may be the end.
Kissed Ferrothorn and Toxapex goodbye.
I love you Molly. Tell our daughter the truth.
The wet steps are speeding up.
A tantrum.
He knows we are here.
He is banging his head on the door.
Some teeth chewed the metal door.
Water is dripping.
Goodbye my love.
- Status