Dragon Ball Z Fandom Topics

TELL ME, TFC, DOES A MACHINE SUCH AS YOURSELF EVEN EXPERIENCE FEAR

EDIT:
need to save this somewhere

<TFC> i thought the same thing
<TFC> but i drank 3+ liters of soda
<TFC> during a 6 hour risk game
 
Vegeta is the best character of the series, just because of:

[youtube]D2lBn3nOa7w[/youtube]

Majin Vegeta's speech was probably one of the most passionate, and emotionally engaging moments of the entire series. Plus it was fucking epic. Honestly, I can relate to the character much better than Goku, who's just kind of bland.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIT1wm3FH9Y

0:55 is probably the most iconic moment of the entire series, when you combine the imagery with the music playing at the time. The entire episode really was just brilliantly done, and a more perfect ending to the series isn't possible to achieve.

Honestly, I believe DBZ was never intended to be as serious as some people view it. The dialogue is cheeky and corny on purpose to make it almost like a parody of itself, which I enjoy. How can you not love the scene where Piccolo is at Goku's house, and yells at Goku to "leave me out of this!!" when he tries to drag him in the middle of an argument with his wife? Granted, I still skip many of the filler episodes, but the one where Goku and Piccolo learn to drive is pretty hilarious and still worth watching.

Finally, GT had enormous potential, but impressively failed by turning Trunks into a nerdy archeologist and Goten into a lazy teenager with almost zero ability. The whole damn series was supposed to be ABOUT them, and they completely nerfed the two main characters. Toward the end it got fun with Goku's SSJ4 transformation and the 7 dragons, though, so the series wasn't a COMPLETE waste as some say.
 
While I agree that the Buu Saga was completely unneeded, it did give us some incredibly epic moments. This was one of my favourite moments in the entire series and I remember actually tearing up when I first watched it. I only wish that the clip started a minute earlier to show him knock out Trunks and Goten.
[Youtube]Txe1OK55nAE[/Youtube]
 
I looove DBZ, probably going to come back to this thread with more to say later


Agreeing that the Buu saga saw a drop in overall quality but Majin Vegeta was still awesome, and Videl and Mystic Gohan and the Hercule/Buu friendship were all okay -- just that Buu was a really abysmal villain and he only got out of control due to continued extreme carelessness on the heroes' part, there was no cunning on the level of Piccolo/Frieza/Gero/Cell involved. And fuck kid trunks :/

Bruce Faulconer really is amazing though, I have a 1.5 gig folder filled just with his DBZ albums + a shitton of unreleased music
 
Vegeta: This...proves....nothing
Goku: Are you OK in there?
Vegeta: Yeah, I'm fan-f*cking-tastic. Nothing but gumdrops and ice cream in here.
Goku: Oh, really? Can I come in too?
Vegeta: I'm surrounded by idiots
Goku: I thought you were surrounded by gumdrops and ice cream?
Vegeta: AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

ROFLROFLRFOLFOROFL :D
 
I feel Buu Saga was the best in all ways ... except plot. The acting was better (there was less narm) and it had my favorite villain/fighting theme.

I really liked Kai ... for everything pre-Androids. The dubbing for early dbz (especially Frieza) wasn't very good and I felt Kai improved that. I would actually put the Japanese score above Faulconer here too. But the androids had a lot of things I didn't like. I felt the music starting losing out here (Super Vegeta with that epic piano and the Ginyu Transformation theme against cell is just too awesome). I also didn't like 16 or 18's new voices. Overall, I just felt Kai didn't "improve" the series that much aside from removing filler. Favorite Kai Scene:

[youtube]rzWI-rG8508[/youtube]

I hope Kai doesn't do Buu. As mentioned, I felt Buu was the most "polished" voice/animation-wise and I felt Kai wasn't improving the series as much near the end.

Also, I don't like how people justify liking Vegeta more because he works "harder" than Goku. In the Saiyan/Frieza saga, Vegeta didn't train AT ALL, he just abuses the zenkai boosts. The Cell/Buu saga fixes this by giving them roughly equal on the amount of training though. And for "Goku got help with training when Vegeta was always alone," when would Vegeta EVER ask for help? The only place where I feel Vegeta (and Goku too) get screwed, is when Ultimate Gohan and Gotenks come out on top with minimal effort after Vegeta (and Goku) trained for 7 YEARS :/

Don't know if these are my favorite scenes (very likely), but I have definitely watched them the most (lol you can skip to like minute 4 for the first one):

[youtube]nwrzYrpCHz0[/youtube]
[youtube]99cF4v0lWQI[/youtube]
[youtube]oIT1wm3FH9Y[/youtube]
 
"Everybody! I wonder what Goku's doing? He's got his hands together and saying words, maybe we should take cover! /epic pause"

Sometimes the dialogue is so hilariously corny haha.
 
@Eddie-- I don't like Vegeta more because he works harder (where the fuck does that come from?). It's not about power either.

I like Vegeta more because he has real emotion-- it's easier to relate to Vegeta. It's ironic to say, but the prince of Saiyans is more "human" than Goku.

Vegeta is a character with inner demons, strong predilections and framed perceptions that are continuously challenged or broken by the events around him. He is a character defined by Pride, Honor, and pursuit of greatness-- he answers to values other than simple "good" or "happiness." Following the Freeza saga, Vegeta also has to deal with the harsh contention between his own old in-grained convictions and growing loyalties to his family, and acceptance of being "good."

Vegeta's passion and single-minded resolve to his goals instills admiration. His inner struggles and hypocrisies stir empathy. His complexity as a character draws intrigue.

The closest thing Goku gets to real human weaknesses are wanting to eat too much, being afraid of needles, and being simple minded. If anything, his "character flaws" only make his child-like purity and goodness even more inhuman. I mean Goku is never tempted by anything (except Stuffed-Crust Pizza in a parody show). He's so simple, pure, childlike, and good spirited that he's pretty much devoid of a human aspect.

We see him work hard, but unlike Vegeta, there's no passion towards that work because there's no conviction towards a motivation-- nothing beyond "I gotta help my friends", or some un-written took-for-granted assumption that all males want to be really strong. Later, that's re-assigned as a sub-conscious Saiyan instinct to love fighting (so it's chalked up to some other alien emotion we can't relate to). As a result, the training doesn't feel as meaningful because it's not attached to an emotional driver.

(Just compare Goku's space ship training to Rock Lee's flashback training-- which one feels more meaningful?)

Even when it comes to family-- Goku's supposed to be this great Dad, but honestly, between leaving his family for years on end and having the most hunky-dory vanilla father-son relationship(s) ever-- Goku's feelings for his family do not even come across as that compelling.

Real father-son relationships have disagreement, conflict, rebellion, and epiphany moments that define and shape them-- that build mutual understanding, respect, and love. Trunk's Earth-born values and loyalty to humanity creates a stark conflict with his father's convictions to the values of Saiyan culture and the quest for power. When combined with his human desire for acknowledgement from his father, it creates an emotional paradox that really stirs you up.

Also it is because of Vegeta's unwillingness to admit or show his love for his family that the true loyalties he has to them are so compelling. His internal expressions of pride in his son (admittedly connected to Trunk's strength/talents), and his external bouts of love-driven rage/conviction/self-sacrifice (Vegeta attacks cell/Vegeta knocks out Trunks and blows himself up against Buu) are also more compelling.

Granted I think everyone felt something tremendous when Goku sacrificed himself to save the earth against Cell. Still, when Vegeta blew himself up to save Trunks, it created one of the most epic moments of the series despite being so relatively unimportant plot-wise.


Of course, the most annoyingly inhuman thing about both Vegeta and Goku is their lack of sex-drive. It's no wonder the Saiyans were a race so few in numbers. The surviving males don't even flinch at the fact that all the females were exterminated! It's a wonder that any of these half-saiyans were even born--gotta give props to Chichi and Bulma; whatever they did behind the scenes, sex drive is so alien to the character of these Saiyans that it had to be behind the scenes.

Obviously it makes sense that Gohan and Krillin seem to have more normal/human attitudes towards women.
 
Chou Toshio said:
Of course, the most annoyingly inhuman thing about both Vegeta and Goku is their lack of sex-drive. It's no wonder the Saiyans were a race so few in numbers. The surviving males don't even flinch at the fact that all the females were exterminated! It's a wonder that any of these half-saiyans were even born--gotta give props to Chichi and Bulma; whatever they did behind the scenes, sex drive is so alien to the character of these Saiyans that it had to be behind the scenes.

Obviously it makes sense that Gohan and Krillin seem to have more normal/human attitudes towards women.
Click to expand...

I can't believe I really just read this. If this is sentiment is serious....well honestly I think the idea of giving Goku and Vegeta sex drives doesn't sound like Toriyama's writing style. I mean, DBZ is all about fighting. And that's all most of the characters think about. Unlike modern anime, Toriyama didn't really try to add sex appeal to a man's world.


Anywho, DBZ is is hands-down my favorite show of all time. Despite it's writing and character flaws, you cannot deny that the central themes of the series have a profound effect on the male psyche during it's formative years. And I know I'm not just speaking for myself. As a kid DBZ taught me the virtue of never giving up in the face of adversity and the rewards of hard work. As a kid I definitely developed a bit more courage and self-confidence just from watching. It gets even better when you factor in the unparalleled action sequences.

As for the Buu Saga....I'm going to join in the echo chamber and admit that things could've gone much better. I watched the whole thing in order for the first time last year, was a little bit disappointed. Perhaps the biggest let down is that the whole thing is the villain getting stronger through a series of unbelievably dumb mistakes on the part of the heroes. And the Supreme Kai was hilariously useless.
The other thing that bothered me was the fact that they couldn't decide whether they wanted to be serious or silly. All of the preceding sagas set a serious, albeit somewhat overdramatic, tone to the series. Then Buu comes along and provides us with scenes like this:
[youtube]-YmeJYmKoeQ[/youtube]
This would have been okay in the original Dragon Ball. In DBZ.....seems very out of place. I also love how the series ends with Goku abandoning his family and friends -_-;

HOWEVER, it wasn't a total bust. The Buu arc gave us one of the best anime tracks of all time:
[youtube]woHtuw_xtcc[/youtube]
 
I mean, DBZ is all about fighting. And that's all most of the characters think about. Unlike modern anime, Toriyama didn't really try to add sex appeal to a man's world.
Click to expand...

sex was very much a part of dragonball and probably contributed the most comic relief with the exception of goku's naivety (which often overlapped with sex) - master roshi's lecherous antics, nearly every facet of bulma's character, yamcha's fear of girls, oolong wishing for panties etc. it was far less of a thing in dbz but it was still there. sure, goku and vegeta don't show much sexual interest in women during the show but we still know they have 2 children each (as did Bardock) and there are several key scenes where they express their love for their spouses (thinking specifically of when goku returns from the afterlife and when vegeta blow himself up)...just because they're not nymphomaniacs doesn't make them 'annoyingly inhumane' by any stretch of the imagination. I think the problem is in your own head there, chou ;D

anyway, the music is such an integral part of dragonball z so I thought I'd share my fave songs!

Heroic Trunks

[youtube]2bwvv69WNLU[/youtube]

Gohan Fights Frieza

[youtube]5-WFjpRCSlc[/youtube]

Vegeta Powers Up

[youtube]n5kEYa8jYmg[/youtube]

Oh and re: the Buu saga...taken as a whole, it wasn't as memorable as the earlier sagas but it provided some of the best scenes in the history of DB:

- Goku going SSJ3 for the first time was an artistic masterpiece

- Vegeta's self-destruction and then masterminding of Kid Buu's defeat allowed for an integral piece of character development that he was sorely missing in the Cell saga

- Kid Buu's death was a fantastic summarising moment as we see characters from throughout Goku's life like Upa and Eighter and then Frieza watching on from Hell with his arms crossed mumbling 'why am I not surprised...' that was wonderful.

- Vegito!!!

etc!
 
[youtube]ldMI0KLP8fM[/youtube]

This theme always mesmerised me as a child and still does to this day.

I'm also curious on what this movie will provide us with. New fusion or something interesting perhaps?

[youtube]3gexCaxsFGU[/youtube]
 
Not sure about the source for this information, but if it's true, then SSJ3 Vegeta and SSJ3 Gogeta are apparently things!

[youtube]kWIgerC_OEU[/youtube]
 
so i'm rewatching the series and i found something that pisses me off. when Goku is done training and has to go back down the snake path, he should have just fell off, gone to hell, then use the secret passage to get there faster...
 
vonFiedler said:
I'm actually currently finishing up Dragon Ball Kai. When I was a kid I'd be able to catch one out of three DBZ episodes at best, and yet it still never felt like I missed anything. DBZ defined its genre... it's a bloated mess of constant power creep. I don't know why it succeeded, but it did well enough to spawn countless imitators. Which are all more interesting, Bleach with its sword powers, One Piece with fruit powers, Naruto with ninjutsu. DBZ is a total blank slate of flying, punching fast, and shooting balls of light. What makes Vegeta's big ball of light (final flash) so much cooler than any other?

When I was a kid there was a show I liked better. It was more martial arts themed. The main character was based off of the Monkey King with his extending staff, and flying on a cloud. He'd fight mad scientists and robots. There would also be rival martial artists and mercenaries who were more menacing than any DBZ character without being a "world-ending" threat. There were also female characters that were relevant for more than just making babies. Where did that show ever go? Whoever wrote it makes Akira Toriyama look like a hack.
Click to expand...

The only other show I ever remember as a kid that was similar to season 1 of Dragon Ball was Monkey Magic.

monkey-magic.jpg



Alright, time to post my thoughts since DBZ ran my life in my adolescent years (fortunately and unfortunately :/ ).

What makes this series so great?

There were two great things this series taught me. One was determination. I didn't care much for Goku during my teen years when I watched heavily, but the one thing I loved about him was that he just absolutely never gave up no matter what the situation is and the situations got tougher in every saga(yes, even the Buu Saga). The other thing I learned was to try to make decisions that are best for everyone in the long run. Goku was iconic for this. He (almost) always made decisions with everyone else in mind (ex: not coming back to Earth when he could have after Gohan beat Cell).

Oh, and comparing to other animes, the fights are still unparalleled even as of today.

What makes DBZ the absolute best series one could possibly abridge?

OK, so I finally sat down and watched Abridged Seasons 1 and 2 after putting it off for so long. It's already been said. It's just so easy to edit and cut and paste scenes in DBZ. Not only that, there are so many flaws in the series that you can't help but poke fun at it. My favorites were...pretty much every Goku moment(especially what I posted previously) and the moments where Krillin was asked why he didn't use Kienzan during certain situations (ex: when Frieza was transforming, before half the Z Warriors were killed by Nappa, etc).

Cell Saga v. Majin Buu Saga: Which is the true best ending of the series?

Cell. By a mile. Buu was...nice, but you could tell Toriyama wanted the series to end after Cell since the torched was passed from father to son. The greatest thing about Buu Saga, to it's credit, was that Vegeta finally came to terms with himself, showing that it's never too late to change your ways.

Gohan v. Goku: Who is the strongest non-fused Saiyan? (sorry Vegeta fans, but you know he don't stack up)

Gohan, of course. For reasons already stated in the OP, basically.

Dragon Ball Z Dub v. Dragon Ball Z Japanese: An Anime series where the English version is better???

tl;dr warning

This is tough for me and there's a story behind why. I know I've stated before that the Japanese series was better, but I'm having second thoughts.

When DBZ first came to the US, we were getting the Ocean dub at first which I thought was awesome. Then, if anyone remembers, after Goku arrived on Namek and beat Recoome, the US didn't get another English dub for about two years on TV. During that time, I stumbled onto a few of the Japanese episodes as well as every single DBZ movie in Japanese. By the time we got English dubbed episodes again, I really took a liking to the original version and, I'm sorry, but when FUNimation picked up DBZ and first started doing the dubs from when Ocean dubs stopped airing it...sucked :/ . The voice acting was unpolished and even some of the script was bad(Krillin's epic "what a TRIP!" line). Bruce Faulconer had GREAT music but during the Frieza Saga it seemed....misplaced. Like they didn't know where to use what music during certain moments. They got it together though by the time the Androids showed up and it was golden ever since.

I can't hate on the Japanese version though. First it's the original and without the original, we wouldn't have...you know....an English dub :/ . That and you have to remember that DBZ originally came out in the (late?) 80's. So, it's pretty dated as far as voice acting, music, writing, etc. The Japanese version has not aged well, I will definitely admit that.

I don't really like the whole "English is better bcoz Goku has MAN voice" argument. I mean...really? Is it THAT important to fans? There was a reason the Japanese casted a woman: to portray Goku's innocence. To FUNi's credit though, Sean Schemmel(sp?) did an excellent job as Goku and it does make me wonder: couldn't the Japanese have found a man as well to still portray Goku's innocence? Maybe it's some tradition thing idk.

Dragon Soul v. Cha-La Head Cha-La
Ch-La Head Cha-La. I can't explain why. It just holds this place in my heart <3.

Stupid Goku moment is the same as Chou's(You can EAT it in REVERSE :D ), but I also like the one I posted earlier.

I won't touch on the rest, especially the Buu Saga since I pretty much feel the same way about it as a lot of other people in this thread. Further proof that whenever you're forced to do something for the wrong reasons, it doesn't exactly turn out well.
 
Erisia, the SS3 Vegeta was introduced in a video game, same as SS3 Broly. I assume SS3 Gogeta is probably just in a new video game as well.

I guess I couldn't complain about a new movie though.
 
What makes this series so great?
Probably the fighting. Most fights are intense and high-stakes. The Z-Fighters fly around and shoot ki blasts and engage in rapid hand to hand combat; this reflects the fact that if they fail, then their home planet will be destroyed. The fights also have badass moments like Gohan killing Cell in the Kamehameha duel and Goku's speech. EVerything is all awesome and intense. Its what makes DBZ amazing.

What makes DBZ the absolute best series one could possibly abridge?
Because of filler. If all the filler and side dialogue was cut out, DBZ would just have all the fights and what not. The fights are where DBZ is at its best, and everything else can just be removed.

Cell Saga v. Majin Buu Saga: Which is the true best ending of the series?
Majin Buu, but only because of the villain and Vegeta. Buu was no ordinary monster; he was a powerful foe who overwhelmed the Kais themselves. At one point, Goku and Vegeta had to fuse in order to surpass his power. And Buu destroyed the Earth too, something no one else had previously done. So since he is the final villain, it makes a good ending for the series.

Also Vegeta finally admitted that Goku is superior to him. For the whole series, we saw Vegeta struggle to even keep up with Goku. It was his main goal after Namek. He finally realized why Goku surpassed him and after that he bravely fought Kid Buu, risking his own existence. This also adds to it being a better ending than the Cell Saga.
 
Chou Toshio said:
The closest thing Goku gets to real human weaknesses are wanting to eat too much, being afraid of needles, and being simple minded. If anything, his "character flaws" only make his child-like purity and goodness even more inhuman. I mean Goku is never tempted by anything (except Stuffed-Crust Pizza in a parody show). He's so simple, pure, childlike, and good spirited that he's pretty much devoid of a human aspect.
Click to expand...

Goku isn't as complex a character as Vegeta, but there is some real conflict there.

For example, look at Goku's relationship with his Saiyan heritage. When Raditz comes to earth, Goku vehemently denies his birth name, and is obviously completely opposed to the fact that he's some alien from outer space. He despises his brother, and hates Nappa and Vegeta for obvious reasons, though his principles prevent him from killing either. As the saga progresses, Goku sees the battle against Frieza as foremost a challenge, and then a battle to save his friends. It is only after Vegeta falls to Frieza that Goku comes to understand and embrace his role (and even grudgingly to begin with) as the avenger and last hope of the Saiyan race. And even at that, Goku is not under any illusions that his race was innocent victims, even implying that the Saiyans deserved to be exterminated for their own crimes. And yet, Goku is able to say with pride that "I am the Saiyan sent from Earth to defeat you, Frieza". And we can't forget "Hope of the Universe". I could get into how ironic it is that the Super Sayian, a being who was originally the terror of the universe is now a figure of hope, but I don't feel like writing anymore lol.

And then, couldn't his own principles be seen as a character flaw? He saves every enemy he comes across. He saves Freiza, putting Earth at risk in a few months. He gives Cell a Senzu Bean to ensure that he had a fair fight against Gohan (when he appears to be using it to heal himself against a weakened Cell, Vegeta is critical). Goku seeks out challenges, even to the point of recklessness, even knowing the stakes. Goku, in the end, may have his own variant of Sayian pride, based around fairness and honor - but if Gohan doesn't go SSJ2, then what? If Trunks doesn't show up, or his ship is a few minutes late, then what?

Anyway, I think it's inaccurate to portray Goku as a generic goody two shoes - he's certainly an innocent and light-hearted character, but he's certainly not devoid of depth.
 
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