I was giving a SubRoost Dragonite a try as a late-game sweeper. Helps keep annoying shit like Boiling Water burns away while you happily DD up after a Sub. Something troubling switches in on your sub, like say, Sazandora, you roost up after Dancing once as it breaks your Sub, full health, retaliate with Dancing again or Dragon Claw.
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Dragonite
- Thread starter KurashiDragon
- Start date
I was giving a SubRoost Dragonite a try as a late-game sweeper. Helps keep annoying shit like Boiling Water burns away while you happily DD up after a Sub. Something troubling switches in on your sub, like say, Sazandora, you roost up after Dancing once as it breaks your Sub, full health, retaliate with Dancing again or Dragon Claw.
I never said Mence is better than Nite, I believe quite the opposite. Though seeing as I added my set in the middle of another discussion contrasting them I noted that this can do things Mence can't. I didn't think there was anything wrong with it.
I think Dragonite has solidified the niches that it had carved out for itself in Gen IV. Salamence is still superior as a mixed attacker, DD sweeper, and all around offensive Pokemon.
But Multi-Scale and +2 Extremespeed make Dragonite much more effective in its role as an anti-lead and revenge killer, and it greatly increases the viability of the bulky sets.
But Multi-Scale and +2 Extremespeed make Dragonite much more effective in its role as an anti-lead and revenge killer, and it greatly increases the viability of the bulky sets.
Just sharing a fun story from the battlefield. My Bulky DDNite (252 HP, 52 Att, 204 Speed) survived a +3 (Tail Glow passed) Dragon Pulse from Latias to Dance, and revenge on the next turn with Dragon Claw. It's crazy how much of a beating he can take, the trick is putting that to use and using it while it lasts, or it all goes to waste.
Lum vs. Lefties is getting to be really tough. There is status EVERYWHERE, but a lot of times when taking weak attacks or while attacking Lefties restore you to full, allowing you another chance to survive a strong hit or maybe to pull off another dance. I guess it's a matter of personal preference, but it really sucks having to choose one over the other.
Lum vs. Lefties is getting to be really tough. There is status EVERYWHERE, but a lot of times when taking weak attacks or while attacking Lefties restore you to full, allowing you another chance to survive a strong hit or maybe to pull off another dance. I guess it's a matter of personal preference, but it really sucks having to choose one over the other.
@Stellar
That's very true. However, you need to be prepared for status. There's always gonna be something that's gonna stop a potential sweep. A Boiling Water, Ice Beam Freeze (Yes I have tested Dragonite against Ice Beam users. It works semi well if you can avoid the Freeze.), Paralysis, among other things. This is the most obvious stuff. Lum Berry is very useful to saving your sweep.
That's very true. However, you need to be prepared for status. There's always gonna be something that's gonna stop a potential sweep. A Boiling Water, Ice Beam Freeze (Yes I have tested Dragonite against Ice Beam users. It works semi well if you can avoid the Freeze.), Paralysis, among other things. This is the most obvious stuff. Lum Berry is very useful to saving your sweep.
Interestingly, I see these more often than salamence on PO.
Not surprising if you think about it. Dragonite got a few new tools to abuse whereas Salamence is more of the same. People are enjoying testing new things, like I have.
Also, I think Nite has more appeal most likely, being from Gen 1 and all. I think most people used Mence over him last gen was due to overall effectiveness. Now, that effectiveness is rather split.
Also, I think Nite has more appeal most likely, being from Gen 1 and all. I think most people used Mence over him last gen was due to overall effectiveness. Now, that effectiveness is rather split.
I've been using this almost exact set (same EV spread, Adamant nature, DD / DClaw-Tail / Fire Punch / Roost) and I have to say that you're asking too much out of Nite doing this. If you want it to shuffle, forget DDance, and go with a coverage or support move (safeguard sounds sexy). If going for the bulky sweep, go with Dragon Claw; if you want both, you'll have to drop T-wave and run both dragon moves. Dragon Tail's negative priority cost me an epic battle (as follows); Dragonite vs Garchomp 1v1 as the endgame.
g_r sent out Dragonite!
Start of turn 26
The foe's Garchomp used Dragon Claw!
It's super effective!
fidgety: ggg
Dragonite lost 150 HP! (38% of its health)
Dragonite used Dragon Dance!
Dragonite's Attack rose!
Dragonite's Speed rose!
The sandstorm rages!
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Dragonite restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
g_r: don't know how this will end
g_r: but yeah
g_r: nice comeback
Start of turn 27
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite landed on the ground!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Garchomp used Dragon Claw!
It's super effective!
Dragonite lost 150 HP! (38% of its health)
The sandstorm rages!
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Dragonite restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Start of turn 28
The foe's Garchomp used Dragon Claw!
It's super effective!
Dragonite lost 236 HP! (61% of its health)
Dragonite fainted!
fidgety won the battle!
Start of turn 26
The foe's Garchomp used Dragon Claw!
It's super effective!
fidgety: ggg
Dragonite lost 150 HP! (38% of its health)
Dragonite used Dragon Dance!
Dragonite's Attack rose!
Dragonite's Speed rose!
The sandstorm rages!
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Dragonite restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
g_r: don't know how this will end
g_r: but yeah
g_r: nice comeback
Start of turn 27
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite landed on the ground!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Garchomp used Dragon Claw!
It's super effective!
Dragonite lost 150 HP! (38% of its health)
The sandstorm rages!
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Dragonite restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Start of turn 28
The foe's Garchomp used Dragon Claw!
It's super effective!
Dragonite lost 236 HP! (61% of its health)
Dragonite fainted!
fidgety won the battle!
I was thinking about Pokémon quite a lot today, and amidst my thoughts, I believe I have discovered one move within Dragonite's movepool which I think is extremely underrated and highly overlooked, though for understandable reasons: Aqua Jet. When I first found out that Dragonite learned this move, I initially dismissed it as being worthless, for the exact same reason why many people may have done the same: because Extremespeed is twice as powerful, meaning that a neutral hit from that move would be just as powerful as a super-effective hit from Aqua Jet, while a not-very-effective Extremespeed would be the same power as a neutral Aqua Jet. This seems intuitive on the surface, however taking a closer look at the most commonly used Pokémon in the battling environment, I have come to see that this is actually a very viable move over Extremespeed, for two main reasons, the first being that Aqua Jet deals twice as much damage to Doryuuzu, giving Dragonite a chance to revenge-kill one of the fastest Pokémon ever in a Sandstorm and one of the most threatening Pokémon in the current battling environment. The second reason is because Aqua Jet can deal quite a lot of damage to Shandera, or even take it out if it is weakened, while Extremespeed cannot hit it at all. Being able to hit these two Pokémon more effectively than Extremespeed, of course, comes with the price of dealing only half as much damage as that move against every Pokémon which Aqua Jet hits for neutral damage, with the exception of Steel-type Pokémon, in which case the two moves deal the exact same amount of damage. However, looking at the most common Pokémon which priority moves would normally be used against, this may not be too bad, as many Pokémon which Dragonite would normally use such moves against, such as Blaziken, Infernape, Randorosu, Choice Scarf Heatran and Urugamosu are all hit just as hard by Aqua Jet as by Extremespeed anyway, meaning that this move is definitely worth considering, despite how it may seem compared to Extremespeed on paper. And of course, Aqua Jet has four times the PP of Extremespeed, and also becomes almost as strong as that move under the rain (a weather condition in which Dragonite is extremely useful due to its wide range of moves which work effectively under that weather, meaning that Dragonite is a prime choice in rain teams, giving even more reason to use Aqua Jet), and that's two more advantages Aqua Jet has over Extremespeed. This is not to say that Aqua Jet is better than Extremespeed on Dragonite though, but after some thought and analysis, I believe it is definitely a viable option, despite what I initially believed.
@ pokemon trainer r
I see what your saying for aqua jet, but it just doesn't do that well against any of those threats. It doesn't even 2hko 0/0 doryuuzu. It only sometimes 2hkos blaziken and infernape (both 0/0). From +1 (CB or DD), none are OHKOed (sorry no calcs for shandera, I'm assuming they aren't to good though). True it can hit doryuuzu and shandera much better than espeed, but why would you want to hit them for such little damage?
I see what your saying for aqua jet, but it just doesn't do that well against any of those threats. It doesn't even 2hko 0/0 doryuuzu. It only sometimes 2hkos blaziken and infernape (both 0/0). From +1 (CB or DD), none are OHKOed (sorry no calcs for shandera, I'm assuming they aren't to good though). True it can hit doryuuzu and shandera much better than espeed, but why would you want to hit them for such little damage?
doryuuzu and shandera never OHKO Dragonite while you can OHKO Them with EQ.
Yeah this isnt really surprising since most people choose chomp or lati@s over mence as an offensive dragon. Anyway it really sucks that superpower is illegal with multi scale. Maybe theres some way to include focus punch in a set. Maybe something like sub,roost,focus punch,draco meteor?
Draco meteor forces stuff out...focus punch provides great coverage and hits blissey, nateri, and skarm...sub eases predection and lets you punch safely while roost activates multi scale and lets you come back for more. Focus punch's negative priority actually helps you here. Before mix nite couldnt beat hippo 1 on 1 because it could live a draco meteor and continuously slack off. Now if he slacks off he will die next turn to draco meteor. If he attacks or roars he will die next time to draco meteor.
Yes Lee is right. Focus Punch has been replaced by Claw Sharpen as a tm this gen. Kinda Unfortunate. I should edit the Illegal moves for 4th gen tms. I'll do that when I have the time.
To add to the list of ridiculous things Bulky D-Nite (the 252/212 +sp def spread from 4th gen, just with Multi-Scale) can survive, I mention that earlier, against a special Flygon, my Dragonite survived a CRITICAL HIT Draco Meteor. It did ~60%. Yes, I know that's a Flygon, but still, that's a 140 BP, STAB, Super-Effective, Critical Hit. Later that match, believe it or nor, I switched in my Skarmory on another Flygon Draco Metoer, which critted again, and it did 75% to Skarmory.
tl;dr Dragonite is bulky;will fuck your shit
tl;dr Dragonite is bulky;will fuck your shit
Just in case they are weakened, and Dragonite is in a situation in which its Multi-Scale ability is negated, especially if Doryuuzu had used Swords Dance previously (for example, if Doryuuzu comes in against a Pokémon of yours in a sandstorm, survives a heavy hit from it while Swords Dancing, and then takes that Pokémon out. You can then send out an Aqua Jet Dragonite to revenge-kill it. This can be a backup plan if one either does not have a Roobushin or a Breloom with Mach Punch in their team, or if that Pokémon had already been taken out previously). As specific as such a situation may be, I believe it is at least worth considering due to how extremely common both Doryuuzu and Shandera are.
Bulky Dragon Dance
Dragonite @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Multi Scale
Nature: Impish / Adamant
Evs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Spd
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw
~ Fire Punch
~ Roost/Earthquake
My set of choice. DD up, and dragon claw + fire punch provides (almost) perfect coverage. Roost for bulkiness, or earthquake to hit everything in the game for neutral or super effective damage. bitch.
Dragonite @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Multi Scale
Nature: Impish / Adamant
Evs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Spd
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw
~ Fire Punch
~ Roost/Earthquake
My set of choice. DD up, and dragon claw + fire punch provides (almost) perfect coverage. Roost for bulkiness, or earthquake to hit everything in the game for neutral or super effective damage. bitch.
I think D-nite is like the go to pokemon on any rain team. He covers water types weaknesses fairly well and his rain set is god like. I have been running
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multi Scale
Nature: Modest
Evs: 176 HP/ 252 Spatk/ 80 Spe
~ Thunder
~ Hurricane
~ Surf
~ Roost
Originally I was running Dragon Pulse over Roost but I realized that that Dragon Pulse was not really adding the coverage I was looking for. The only situation where D-Pulse gives has a higher BP than another move is against dragons. That would be useful, but he cant take a hit from stab outrages and just happens to be slower than all of the dragons he would be looking to KO. Because this is set is built for a rain team, Kingdra is generally the designated Revenge Killer. I have been pleasantly surprised with how much a flying stab has helped this gen; with all the fighting and grass types, hurricane is a decent move, particularly in the rain.
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multi Scale
Nature: Modest
Evs: 176 HP/ 252 Spatk/ 80 Spe
~ Thunder
~ Hurricane
~ Surf
~ Roost
Originally I was running Dragon Pulse over Roost but I realized that that Dragon Pulse was not really adding the coverage I was looking for. The only situation where D-Pulse gives has a higher BP than another move is against dragons. That would be useful, but he cant take a hit from stab outrages and just happens to be slower than all of the dragons he would be looking to KO. Because this is set is built for a rain team, Kingdra is generally the designated Revenge Killer. I have been pleasantly surprised with how much a flying stab has helped this gen; with all the fighting and grass types, hurricane is a decent move, particularly in the rain.
If you want to definitely run Roost, I'm pretty sure Dragon/Water still has perfect neutral coverage. :0 Not outclassed by Kingdra due to Multiscale + recovery.
I've been using a team that revolves around BulkyDD and I can honostly say that the best partners I can think of are Nattorei, Shandera, and Espeon. Espeon is the obvious option of preventing stealth rock. Nattorei is extremely useful for elmininating the threat of Dragon Attacks ruining your day. Shandera is useful for Steel Killing which it does better than Magnezone IMO. I've been moderatally successful with this team. (Apart from some Bad hax and my obvious inexpirience with battling.) I enjoy my team very much.
Quesadilla:
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Multiscale
Impish
244 HP/88 Def/176 Spe
-Substitute
-Dragon Tail
-Thunder Wave
-Roost
So effective it's mindblowing. Parashuffles, then outspeeds to block damage with roost + multiscale, and status with sub. The usefulness of hiding behind one goes without saying.
The HP EVs hit 384, which is draggy's highest lefties number, the speed is to outpace adamant breloom (which I can see becoming an important speed tier) and the rest goes into defense. 304 attack 3HKOs garchomp, and can actually deal pretty decent damage. I've fought people who have no way of getting around this set at all.
Oh, it's a lead BTW.
I've been thinking about a choice band set too: aqua jet, extremespeed, outrage and EQ/fire punch. What do y'all think?
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Multiscale
Impish
244 HP/88 Def/176 Spe
-Substitute
-Dragon Tail
-Thunder Wave
-Roost
So effective it's mindblowing. Parashuffles, then outspeeds to block damage with roost + multiscale, and status with sub. The usefulness of hiding behind one goes without saying.
The HP EVs hit 384, which is draggy's highest lefties number, the speed is to outpace adamant breloom (which I can see becoming an important speed tier) and the rest goes into defense. 304 attack 3HKOs garchomp, and can actually deal pretty decent damage. I've fought people who have no way of getting around this set at all.
Oh, it's a lead BTW.
I've been thinking about a choice band set too: aqua jet, extremespeed, outrage and EQ/fire punch. What do y'all think?