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Dragonite

PokéMontage said:
^Some of the main points of that set included spreading paralysis and using Roost to heal yourself up and reactivate Mutliscale. As you already acknowledged, Garchomp can't do any of that, so how could Garchomp "do it better"?
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Most of the pokemon in this generation are either slow as dirt have taunt or resist it, plus dragonite will most likely lose ms after 1st or 2nd turn. That leaves it with roost and dragon tail and with meh attack power and that being it's only attacking move it won't be doing much.
In my opinion: I feel like it's more like a big wall that's not doing much of anything. Garchomp has a way to spread sr around while racking up some decent damage and still being decently bulky.
 
You could, you know, add an actual attack like Dragon Claw in place of substitute or even toxic. If you're worried about Dragon Tail's accuracy, Dnite also learns roar. Moreover, the point is that it's not supposed to do anything. Even the best shuffling walls like Skarmory rely on others to set up entry hazards (it usually only carries one variety) so saying it Garchomp outclasses because it gets SR is very narrowing. What can a bulky Garchomp do after setting up SR? More or less the same thing as this Dnite except without a status move and no multi-scale. SR can be set by (almost) anybody. Dragon Tail + Status + multi-scale can only be done by Dnite.
 
I posted a log in the C&C dnite topic showing swiftnite stall out a team for 50+ turns. If you haven't tried it, don't knock it because it really does work. Garchomp can't even come close to doing what dnite can.
 
I dunno, I still feel like the DD and Anti-lead sets are still his strongest points, and they are VERY effective. It's nice to see Dragonite finally enjoying more useage over some of his draconic brethren who previously oveshadowed him.
 
It's choice band set is also very effective. Apart from a few minor inconsistencies (lol) Choice Band Dragonite is an excellent revenge killer with Extremespeed. As far as I'm concerned the BulkyDD, Anti-Lead, Choice Band, and maybe the Swiftnite set are worth Dragonite's sets.
 
Agree with JT Swift: this Dragonite with T-Wave, Sub, Roost and DTail is pretty effective. I do usually use it in midgame, and it's perfect to prepare a sweep. Spread paralisys, do some damage, and finish with a sweeper. Don't underestimate it.
 
swiftnite is so good....been using it in the lead spot paired with registeel w/ t wave also. theyre a good pair together, registeel being able to take the ice attacks if needed, and dragonite can take earthquakes or fire attacks. for a sweeper i use salamence and nidoking, salamence owns once the othe team is weakened with overconfidence. the only problem is sandstorm teams, who most are ground and cant be t waved.
 
I'm thinking the OP could use an edit for the additional sets Dragonite can run effectively. Most notably Leadnite, Choice Band, and this Swiftnite set. Now that Nite is seeing such good useage we have to keep his set breakdown up with the times!
 
I might do that but I have problems with a bug that adds spaces to my big posts and it's annoying to beat to say the least. It most likely wont be edited anymore than it is now.
 
Is Dragonite bulky enough to use Hone Claws effectively?

Dragonite-Life Orb (Multiscale)
Mild (SpAtk+,Def-)/Rash (SpAtk+,SpDef-)
116 Atk/200 SpAtk/92 Spd
Dragon Rush
Roost
Hone Claws
Focus Blast

Moves are just off the top of my head, as I know he has better ones. Dragon Rush becomes nearly perfect in terms of accuracy (99.75%) while Focus Blast becomes 93% accurate, all with just one turn. Does this have what it takes to be usable or do I have to change some things in order to make it usable?
 
Salem1 said:
I would run T-Wave with that, swap out Focus Blast and use a Magnezone to eliminate steels.
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Sounds like an interesting idea. I'd like to see some results with that. The additional power of Dragon Rush seems tempting, but I think overall the tried-and-true Dragon Dance/Claw combo in superior. Especially in terms of standing on it's own: not every team has room for a Magnezone, and having to switch out of Steels causes Dragonite to lose his boosts and momentum.
 
WingedKnight said:
Sounds like an interesting idea. I'd like to see some results with that. The additional power of Dragon Rush seems tempting, but I think overall the tried-and-true Dragon Dance/Claw combo in superior. Especially in terms of standing on it's own: not every team has room for a Magnezone, and having to switch out of Steels causes Dragonite to lose his boosts and momentum.
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Then again considering how bulky Dragonite is, especially with Multi-Scale it might be able to flinch steels into oblivion for example and Thunderwave slows people down...this is a really interesting set. I might have to try it sometime.
 
PlainN said:
You could, you know, add an actual attack like Dragon Claw in place of substitute or even toxic. If you're worried about Dragon Tail's accuracy, Dnite also learns roar. Moreover, the point is that it's not supposed to do anything. Even the best shuffling walls like Skarmory rely on others to set up entry hazards (it usually only carries one variety) so saying it Garchomp outclasses because it gets SR is very narrowing. What can a bulky Garchomp do after setting up SR? More or less the same thing as this Dnite except without a status move and no multi-scale. SR can be set by (almost) anybody. Dragon Tail + Status + multi-scale can only be done by Dnite.
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for one that doesn't even make since to use that set if your saying its not suppose to do anything, if so why not actually use one that can do something, and also ive used a bulky garchomp with dtail outrage eq toxic which actually still hits pretty hard having a secondary useful attacking stab with EQ, while also toxicing walls(mostly bulky waters) ,and also to compare to dnite it can deal much easier with doryuzuu and randorosu(not carrying hp ice) then dnite
 
Quick question for the fellow Nite fans: What's the general consensus on the best second attack for Bulky DD? I've been using Earthquake, but I'm also considering Fire Punch or even Brick Break. What do you guys feel provides the best option against the current metagame?
 
Fire Punch slaughters Nattorei switch-ins, and puts a good dent in all other steels not named Heatran. That's what I ran when I was using it.
 
WingedKnight said:
Quick question for the fellow Nite fans: What's the general consensus on the best second attack for Bulky DD? I've been using Earthquake, but I'm also considering Fire Punch or even Brick Break. What do you guys feel provides the best option against the current metagame?
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Fire Punch definitely. It helps way more against Skarmory, Brongzong, and ESPECIALLY Nattorei which is freaking everywhere. The only one Earthquake really helps against is Heatran.
 
Yes but I feel a major benifit of Earthquake over Fire Punch is that its got raw power. There are gonna be times where it's difficult to get up those dds. I'd prefer Earthquake over Fire Punch simply because it'd have an easier time getting me out of the messes I'd get myself in to. It's also rather easy to fit a fire type partner with Dragonite. (Heatran stands out as a major partner to dragonite)
 
akira95 said:
for one that doesn't even make since to use that set if your saying its not suppose to do anything, if so why not actually use one that can do something, and also ive used a bulky garchomp with dtail outrage eq toxic which actually still hits pretty hard having a secondary useful attacking stab with EQ, while also toxicing walls(mostly bulky waters) ,and also to compare to dnite it can deal much easier with doryuzuu and randorosu(not carrying hp ice) then dnite
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Let me first be blunt and say that I'm not a stall player. What I meant in the "not suppose to do anything" statement was that a parashuffling Dnite doesn't need to do any direct damage. Most of its damage/utility will come from entry hazards that other team members laid, or to spread paralysis for an easier sweep later on. If you want it to do direct damage, than you can add Dragon Claw instead of substitute; in fact, we talk about this fact in the DNite analysis page.

Your Garchomp I would say is almost a "mixed style Chomp" meaning it can act offensively or defensively. Yet, I would presume that most people would prefer either one or the other to focus on a particular strength, which is why stall pokemon usually run one damaging move. In the end, Dragonite, with multi-scale and Roost, is bulkier than Garchomp no matter what. For a dedicated stall pokemon as the Parashuffler (Swiftnite) is designated to be, that extra bulk more than compensates for the STAB EQ (which if you don't have any or very little attack EVs isn't doing much anyway). Finally, I completely disagree about the Dory comment. Dnite can survive a +2 Rock Slide with multi-scale and can survive a +0 Rock Slide without Multi-scale with 0 defensive/HP EV investment; in fact a SE Rock Slide has the same BP as a STAB EQ which it will be using to hit your Garchomp. Thus, Dragonite can take the hit and then retaliate with its plethora of super effective moves. If you want a mixed style Dragonite, it's totally possible and maybe is superior:

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Donno EVs, use same one as your Garchomp
Same Nature as your Garchomp
- Dragon Claw/Outrage
- Fire Punch/EQ
- Thunder Wave/Toxic
- Roost/Dragon Tail

This can do more or less what that Garchomp does but better with the exception of STAB EQ. Even then, most steels take very little from EQ except Heatran so Fire Punch is better in that aspect.
 
Special dragonite in rain is my favourite.
Drop the agility and start sweeping.
Stab Hurricane is beautiful.
After the agility everyone can go cry a river, and with Multi-scale, It's probably getting it.
Then it can just go and kill things.
 
Hrm I haven't done much research in this matter but Dragonite has gotten much better this gen. However, I'd say it's somewhere in the middle when using similar sets. Salamence outclasses it with the DD set and ononokusu may outclass it in the CB set. For some reason people try to give it a Special Set and while that's all good and stuff, it's severely outclassed by Hydreigon. However, that's not to say dragonite is bad. The bulky DD set is one thing it outclasses Salamence in, it's mixed set is right up there with Salamence as it has priority to add to the mixed set. The same thing can be said for the CB set. Also people have come up with a new set called the Swiftnite set and while I haven't tested it myself people have been commenting on its success.

It's all up to you. Test out what you want yourself. Cause I honostly couldn't tell you who compares to who this gen. Dragonite has gotten alot of fun new toys so it's difficult to compare lol.
 
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