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Dragonite

BulkyDDNite is the best set up sweeper in OU in my opinion, anybody arguing for DDSalamence haven't yet played Dragonite or are trying to shoehorn Nite into Mence's role without playing him to his strengths. It has a very small and specific list of counters/checks: not counting rarely seen Pokemon such as Weavile or ScarfLatios and gimmick sets, if the opponent lacks a Scarf Haxorus, Mamoswine or priority Status then Dragonite can 6-0 an opponent almost without a hitch. The ability to reliably get to +3 or +4 and clean out a team is worth a slot on any team and his list of resistances allow him to tank hits for the team too until the time is right. As for screens support on Dragonite, all I have to say is:

fapfapfapfap
 
TobesMcGobes said:
I think a lot of people are underestimating DD Roost Nite, which in my opinion should be aiming to get at least 3 or 4 dances under its belt before attempting to sweep, which is surprisingly not that hard. Dual Screen Espeon makes a great teammate too, since Dragonite is damn near impossible to kill with screens up, and Espy can even bounce back status or phazing moves (bar Dragon Tail), which are really the only feasible ways to stop a Multiscale Dragonite with screens up that I can think of.
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Yea, DDRoostNite is epic, but I have a dilemma.

I can't decide between Dragon Claw + Leftovers or Outrage + Lum Berry.
I also can't decide on EVs. What spread have you found more effective?
 
I prefer going with Dragon Claw + Leftites, especially given the prevalence of sand. As for the EV spread, I just went with the one in its analysis, although that's now outdated since Garchomp is banned. I'd run max HP, enough speed to beat Latios at +1, and the rest in attack or bulk, depending on which you prefer having.
 
TobesMcGobes said:
I prefer going with Dragon Claw + Leftites, especially given the prevalence of sand. As for the EV spread, I just went with the one in its analysis, although that's now outdated since Garchomp is banned. I'd run max HP, enough speed to beat Latios at +1, and the rest in attack or bulk, depending on which you prefer having.
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i would actually aim to outspeed base 111s as Thundurus commonly carries HP Ice and Tornadus Hurricane can OHKO you with some prior damage.
 
So, here's the recommended spread then:


Dragonite @ Leftovers
252 HP/ 156 Speed/ 96 Attack
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

w00t
Only one thing walls this: Heatran.
Just remove the fire beast however possible and rape.
 
I think that dragon claw + lefties is the best combination. Outrage sacrifices reliability, and lefties are great for restoring multiscale while you sweep.

I wish nite learnt dual chop...

EDIT: Ninja'd.

Alternate spread: 244 HP / 68 Atk / 196 Spe Adamant.

Lefties number, 245 initial speed for tyranitar and other pokes in that speed tier, and the rest in attack, which hits 353.
 
na, like in the analysis thread it's not the +1 speed you need to look at it's the +2 speed, usually you will get 2 DDs in. you dont want to dd up and a scarf base 100 comes in to ruin your sweep
 
Lork said:
na, like in the analysis thread it's not the +1 speed you need to look at it's the +2 speed, usually you will get 2 DDs in. you dont want to dd up and a scarf base 100 comes in to ruin your sweep
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Dragonite used Dragon Dance!
Opponent switched in Thundurus!
Thundurus used Hidden Power!
It's super effective! (50.78% - 60.10%)
Dragonite used Dragon Claw! (80.27% - 94.65%)

:L
Thundurus used Hidden Power!
It's super effective!
Dragonite has fainted!

You have to use DD again, but you take a ton of damage doing so.

Your best bet is this spread:
212 Attack/ 156 Speed/ 142 HP

It guarantees the OHKO on Thundy at +1. Or you can just out speed and 2HKO, risking a T-wave. :L


Btw, what on earth uses a scarf anymore?
 
Lork said:
na, like in the analysis thread it's not the +1 speed you need to look at it's the +2 speed, usually you will get 2 DDs in. you dont want to dd up and a scarf base 100 comes in to ruin your sweep
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It's important to be able to outspeed Latios at +1, because otherwise a Specs Draco Meteor can OHKO through Multiscale. But I agree, generally it's much more important to be able to get mulitple boosts.
 
Kefka Palazzo™ said:
Dragonite used Dragon Dance!
Opponent switched in Thundurus!
Thundurus used Hidden Power!
It's super effective! (50.78% - 60.10%)
Dragonite used Dragon Claw! (80.27% - 94.65%)

:L
Thundurus used Hidden Power!
It's super effective!
Dragonite has fainted!

You have to use DD again, but you take a ton of damage doing so.

Your best bet is this spread:
212 Attack/ 156 Speed/ 142 HP

It guarantees the OHKO on Thundy at +1. Or you can just out speed and 2HKO, risking a T-wave. :L


Btw, what on earth uses a scarf anymore?
Click to expand...

nite used dd
opponent switched in thunderus
thunderus used hp ice and di xx damage
nite used dd
nite kos with dragon claw
 
TobesMcGobes said:
It's important to be able to outspeed Latios at +1, because otherwise a Specs Draco Meteor can OHKO through Multiscale. But I agree, generally it's much more important to be able to get mulitple boosts.
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The benchmark to outspeeed Scarf at +2 is higher than outspeeding Specs at +1, and it actually takes 176 EVs and a Jolly Nature to outspeed timid scarf Lati@s.
 
I should have clarified, I didn't mean +1 Latios, I meant +1 Nite against Specs Latios, which is the only variant that can OHKO Dragonite with Multiscale iirc. Otherwise it can just stall out the increasingly weak Draco Meteors.
 
charmer. the point of nite is to get multiple dd boosts in. if you're aiming for just one might as well go mence or even haxorus. so the focus should be on at +2 rather than at +1
 
Lork said:
no i saw that. don't know why that's such an issue considering you are at +2/+2, who can revenge kill you then? bp scizor and that's about it?
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Scizor isn't the only pokemon which carries priority moves. ES Lucario and the like would like to say hello. Also, opposing Dragonites with ES. And let's not even talk about Weavile, Mamoswine, or the other Ice Shard users.


Also, Timid Scarf Latios/Latias outspeeds you if you don't have a Speed+ Nature no matter how much you invest but, lol, who runs Timid Scarf Latis?


inb4someonedoes


EDIT: ninjad on the Lati regard. Though I would like to point out that, with Multiscale not active (aka, the scenario we were using with the Thundurus) Scarf Timid Latios CAN KO Dragonite.
 
Kindrindra said:
Scizor isn't the only pokemon which carries priority moves. ES Lucario and the like would like to say hello. Also, opposing Dragonites with ES. And let's not even talk about Weavile, Mamoswine, or the other Ice Shard users.


Also, Timid Scarf Latios/Latias outspeeds you if you don't have a Speed+ Nature no matter how much you invest but, lol, who runs Timid Scarf Latis?


inb4someonedoes


EDIT: ninjad on the Lati regard. Though I would like to point out that, with Multiscale not active (aka, the scenario we were using with the Thundurus) Scarf Timid Latios CAN KO Dragonite.
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aye course, shouldnt have overlooked them that was silly. but the evs given - 212 Attack/ 156 Speed/ 142 HP - to ohko thundurus with a dragon claw sacrifice a fair amount of bulk. i'd aim to outspeed scarved landorus at +2 because its useage is gonna short up after chomp's dismissal i'm sure and already it's a pretty good mon before. you outspeed +111s with the spread anyway but you wont be able to ohko thundurus. then max out hp and the rest in attack.
 
Or you can just run an Adamant Dragonite with 252 Hp/ 84 Attack/ 156 Speed and still have 18 points leftover :L

You're still bulky, you can OHKO Thundy at +1 after Rocks, and you out speed base 111s too.
 
Kefka Palazzo™ said:
Or you can just run an Adamant Dragonite with 252 Hp/ 84 Attack/ 156 Speed and still have 18 points leftover :L

You're still bulky, you can OHKO Thundy at +1 after Rocks, and you out speed base 111s too.
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i'd want 208 speed (which is what i think you need to outspeed base +1 base 101s at +2). i suppose then take some evs out of hp and put them into speed while still keeping the attack evs to take out thundurus?
 
PlainN said:
I think this is a pretty good summary of the situation. For the 2 DD theory to work, a few things need to happen:

1. No rocks on the field (& no sandstorm preferable). Multiscale has to be intact upon entry.
2. Opponent KOs one of your Pokemon. You cannot switch into attack or else it breaks #1.
3. Opponent's Pokemon on the field cannot 2HKO Dnite with multiscale. Otherwise they will just attack instead of switch.
4. Opponent does not have a counter that can OHKO Dnite with multiscale (CB Dnite, Scarf Haxorous, Specs Latios, etc.) and is either faster than Dnite after 1 DD or can survive a DD boosted attack. Also, the opponent must not have a Pokemon that is faster than Dnite after 2 DDs (CB Mamoswine). If so, you're forced out or revenged after 1 DD, thus ending the sweep.

These four condition makes 2 DDs hard to pull off, but once it happens, the sweep is almost impossible to stop. Of course, offensive DDnite can sweep with just 1 DD, but it is still outclassed by Salamence in that situation given the latter's higher speed. With team support (Espeon comes to mind), you can utilize Dnite's niche of 2 DD sweepage, which is not outclassed.
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Almost all of these conditions are halted by the fact that my all-out offensive set was a LEAD. The 2 DDs are almost guaranteed unless the other lead counters MultiscaleNite...
 
Apparently, people DO use Choice Scarf Latios.


...Yeah, guess which sorry bugger had his +2/+2 Dragonite revenged by a Timid Scarf Latios? D:
 
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