Dusclops (Placeholder)

Vaz

Vaz

[SET]
Name: Restalk
Move 1: Rest
Move 2: Sleep Talk
Move 3: Will-o-Wisp
Move 4: Night Shade / Seismic Toss
Item: Evolution Stone
Nature: Careful
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

[SET]
Name: Pain Split
Move 1: Pain Split
Move 2: Will-o-Wisp / Toxic
Move 3: Taunt / Disable
Move 4: Night Shade / Seismic Toss
Item: Eviolite
Nature: Careful
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 208 HP / 48 Def / 252 SpD


[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

[Other Options]

[Checks and Counters]

------------------

The rest to come soon!
 
When this is done, you only need one Rest-Talk set, and it should probably be the specially defensive one since you're already immune to quite a few physical attacks and can simply burn threats to reduce their attacking power. And most of the slashes in the Pain Split set should be removed and put in Additional Comments. Just having Disable / Confuse Ray should be fine.
 
Name: Pain Split
Move 1: Pain Split
Move 2: Will-o-Wisp
Move 3: Torment / Seismic Toss
Move 4: Night Shade / Seismic Toss
 Item: Evolite
Nature: Careful
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
IVs: 0 HP

I think the less HP, the better. As for the 2nd last slot I think Torment would be helpful but then again, it's best if you listen to GtM. You could also use Night Shade and Seismic Toss together for perfect coverage.
 
ParaChomp said:
Name: Pain Split
Move 1: Pain Split
Move 2: Will-o-Wisp
Move 3: Torment / Seismic Toss
Move 4: Night Shade / Seismic Toss
Item: Evolite
Nature: Careful
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
IVs: 0 HP

I think the less HP, the better. As for the 2nd last slot I think Torment would be helpful but then again, it's best if you listen to GtM. You could also use Night Shade and Seismic Toss together for perfect coverage.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks for that. I forgot that I could reduce the IVs to lower HP...
 
This is my first ever post:
Wait, so you guys think letting a TANK with already pitiful base HP have only 176 total hit points is a good idea? His primary goal isn't to damage opponents a tiny bit more when he heals, it is to tank hits. He can't pain split at all if he's dead, and he will, more often then not, move last. It is always best to have dusclops run max hp and pick one defense to maximize. I'm sure somebody with more smogon clout will back me up on this.
 
JimboSlice said:
This is my first ever post:
Wait, so you guys think letting a TANK with already pitiful base HP have only 176 total hit points is a good idea? His primary goal isn't to damage opponents a tiny bit more when he heals, it is to tank hits. He can't pain split at all if he's dead, and he will, more often then not, move last. It is always best to have dusclops run max hp and pick one defense to maximize. I'm sure somebody with more smogon clout will back me up on this.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he's right. With most opponents Dusclops will already be able to heal itself fairly reliably, and you don't want to make him 33% weaker just for Pain Split to heal him more.
 
I completely agree here. Reducing the HP is an aweful idea. Infact this is such a problem out there, that should you should explain why not to do it, somewhere.
 
For any set using Will-O-Wisp, I recommend including Hex as an "other option". It becomes quite powerful if the foe is burned, and can take out other Ghosts or KO a frail opponent.
 
GtM said:
Yeah, he's right. With most opponents Dusclops will already be able to heal itself fairly reliably, and you don't want to make him 33% weaker just for Pain Split to heal him more.
Click to expand...
Sorry, guess it's just my view. We have to understand that Dusknoir does have more HP though but there's a good point here. Best to run this

Name: Pain Split
Move 1: Pain Split
Move 2: Will-o-Wisp
Move 3: Torment / Seismic Toss
Move 4: Night Shade / Seismic Toss
Item: Evolite
Nature: Careful
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 208 HP / 48 Def / 252 SpD
IVs: 31 HP

This spread allows for magic weather damage.
 
As stated above, there is really only need for the specially defensive ResTalk set with mention of shifting the nature and EVs to the physical side.

However, I'm skeptical of ResTalk without a boosting move or phazing this gen, it is simply too much of a liability due to the new sleep mechanics. Dusclops is bulky, but there are plenty of things that can still 2-3HKO after a boost and this is exacerbated by its vulnerability to all forms of hazards. Once it is weakened enough, it won't be bulky enough to sustain enough hits to Rest up again and repeat the cycle.

I would also recommend Night Shade as the primary slash - the only normal types in OU I can think of are Chansey and Blissey at the moment, who you fail to beat 1 on 1 regardless outside of a PP war. Meanwhile, Gengar and Chandelure will have few qualms coming into Seismic Toss for the Shadow Ball. Night Shade also is not affected by niche abilities such as Ferrothorn's Iron Barbs or Volcarona's Flame Body.

Finally, 3rd slot on Pain Split set has waaaaay too many slashes. Remove Confuse Ray, Curse, Trick Room, and Torment. Disable does the same as the Torment (but you can also choose which move to disable, such as Heatran's Fire Blast) and Trick Room is the only one to deserve mention in OC.
 
Marzbar said:
For any set using Will-O-Wisp, I recommend including Hex as an "other option". It becomes quite powerful if the foe is burned, and can take out other Ghosts or KO a frail opponent.
Click to expand...

Yeah, except for the fact that he's hitting with a base-60 Special Attack (max like 219 or something I think with a neutral nature) he's not really going to be hitting anything THAT hard, and it's best to stick with the reliable damage that Seismic Toss or Night Shade provide.
 
Hi.

Made a few modifications and removed the Defensive Restalk set.

IcyMan28 said:
As stated above, there is really only need for the specially defensive ResTalk set with mention of shifting the nature and EVs to the physical side.

However, I'm skeptical of ResTalk without a boosting move or phazing this gen, it is simply too much of a liability due to the new sleep mechanics. Dusclops is bulky, but there are plenty of things that can still 2-3HKO after a boost and this is exacerbated by its vulnerability to all forms of hazards. Once it is weakened enough, it won't be bulky enough to sustain enough hits to Rest up again and repeat the cycle.

I would also recommend Night Shade as the primary slash - the only normal types in OU I can think of are Chansey and Blissey at the moment, who you fail to beat 1 on 1 regardless outside of a PP war. Meanwhile, Gengar and Chandelure will have few qualms coming into Seismic Toss for the Shadow Ball. Night Shade also is not affected by niche abilities such as Ferrothorn's Iron Barbs or Volcarona's Flame Body.

Finally, 3rd slot on Pain Split set has waaaaay too many slashes. Remove Confuse Ray, Curse, Trick Room, and Torment. Disable does the same as the Torment (but you can also choose which move to disable, such as Heatran's Fire Blast) and Trick Room is the only one to deserve mention in OC.
Click to expand...

Can Burungeru use a phazing move? Can Gengar use a stat up?

Dusclops is the bulkiest Rapid-Spin blocker and is in fact more effective than either two as a Rapid-Spinner in my opinion.

Thanks, bye.
 
His only let down as a bulky Pokemon is, he doesn't have a good recovery move. Other than that, he is one of the best.
 
Vaz said:
Hi.

Made a few modifications and removed the Defensive Restalk set.



Can Burungeru use a phazing move? Can Gengar use a stat up?

Dusclops is the bulkiest Rapid-Spin blocker and is in fact more effective than either two as a Rapid-Spinner in my opinion.

Thanks, bye.
Click to expand...

Neither of those pokemon use ResTalk, either, which is the point that you missed entirely. As far as "your opinion," it is far from the prevalent one, as most people would opt for Jellicent anyway thanks to reliable recovery and a good secondary STAB. You'll need to be sure to elaborate just what it is that Dusclops has over them (Jellicent, mainly, not Gengar).
 
Few changes that should be made:

- 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD for the ResTalk set.
- Seismic Toss shoud be the only option: Dusclops will NEVER stay in when it's against a Ghost-type and will almost ALWAYS be switched in against Normal-types.
- Mention Substitute somewhere in the Pain Split set.
- Do not add any more sets. Those two are the only viable ones. Maybe mention Trick Room in Other Options, but mention Dusknoir being a better user (because of higher Attack) and Porygon2 (better offense + fantastic HP/Def/SpD).
 
IcyMan28 said:
Neither of those pokemon use ResTalk, either, which is the point that you missed entirely. As far as "your opinion," it is far from the prevalent one, as most people would opt for Jellicent anyway thanks to reliable recovery and a good secondary STAB. You'll need to be sure to elaborate just what it is that Dusclops has over them (Jellicent, mainly, not Gengar).
Click to expand...

Dusclops possesses much less weaknesses, and has better defences. One may find that Burungeru is often too stretched out as both a bulky Water and a bulky Ghost type. It also has far better Physical bulkness than Burungeru, who is teared down by any physical move that deals Super Effective damage, which is quite a lot. Nattorei, a vey popular spiker alsmot always has the move Power Whip equiped, dealing hude amount of damage to it on the switch, plus some possible entry hazard damage and it is already KOd. Of course if it still survives, Will-o-Wisp will do nothing more than waste the turn.

Made a slight edit as well.

Thanks, bye.
 
Calm Mind is worth consideration as an option. Lack of reliable recovery doesn't help, but you can try the old Chesto+Rest combination. At least a mention in OO when that section is implemented.

PhoenixM said:
What? No PP stall set? The thing was born to PP stall.
Click to expand...

If you're talking about Protect, Substitute, or moves like that, they can be mentioned in the AC sections. With the Evolite boost, Dusclops can already PP stall well enough.
 
Aerodactyl Legend said:
Calm Mind is worth consideration as an option. Lack of reliable recovery doesn't help, but you can try the old Chesto+Rest combination. At least a mention in OO when that section is implemented.
Click to expand...

Why the hell is this even close to viable when there is a Pokemon that outclasses it 100% (i.e. Dusknoir). Plus, its not powerful at all to begin with.

EDIT:
Vaz said:
Ah, thanks for that. I forgot that I could reduce the IVs to lower HP...
Click to expand...

Don't do this ^

EDIT2@below:
I consider the term "worth consideration" to mean "possibly viable". :P
 
Aerodactyl Legend said:
Did I even use the word viable? I said it can be an option.

Granted, I am still thinking about 4th generation NU.
Click to expand...

So much anger in this thread!

I think that what he meant to say is that ChestoRest is not possible, due to the fact that it means Dusclops would be abandoning the Eviolite, which is his only advantage over Dusknoir. So a Calm Mind set would be superior on Dusknoir, who has a higher, usable Attack stat, anyhow.

And the problem with the Dusclops vs. Jellicent argument is that while Jellicent has more weaknesses (although one must admit that Grass-type attacks aren't all that common, so the Electric-type weakness is the only considerable weakness), it also gains critical resistances to Water- and Ice-type attacks. And when you talk about Ferrothorn, you don't mention that Ferrothorn can easily set up three layers of Spikes on Dusclops' face. Because of how threatening all three layers of Spikes is, you're better off switching (which is the exact same thing Jellicent does).

-Zane

Edit: Oh, and...

Doom Chaos said:
- Seismic Toss shoud be the only option: Dusclops will NEVER stay in when it's against a Ghost-type and will almost ALWAYS be switched in against Normal-types.
Click to expand...

This has been talked about, a lot. Seismic Toss only hits Chansey and Blissey in OU, really. If you really want to stall them out with Pressure, Seismic Toss is an option (but I think they kill themselves with Struggle, first, anyways). However, Night Shade is probably more practical, in order to do a little damage to Jellicent or Gengar if they care to switch in.
 
This is the set I used to use for my Trick Room team. Dunno if it's actually helpful, but I hope it contributes something.

Name: Trick Room
Dusclops
Move 1: Trick Room
Move 2: Pain Split
Move 3: Night Shade/Seismic Toss
Move 4: Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
Item: Eviolite
Nature: Sassy/Relaxed
252 HP/ 128 Def/ 128 SpDef
0 Speed IVs

0 Speed IVs are for maximum speed in Trick Room. Pain Split is semi-reliable healing and can actually fully heal Dusclops against monster HP walls like Vaporeon and Blissey. Choose Seismic Toss or Night Shade depending on the type you don't want to hit. Will-O-Wisp cuts attack in half, but Toxic drains HP faster. The choice is yours.

Susceptible to entry hazards and status
 
am zane ok. said:
I think that what he meant to say is that ChestoRest is not possible, due to the fact that it means Dusclops would be abandoning the Eviolite, which is his only advantage over Dusknoir.
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That's actually it. I was thinking about Dusknoir. It was late and I forgot about the Evolite being dropped just for the berry.
 
I guess I must repeat myself.

DO NOT USE NIGHT SHADE OVER SEISMIC TOSS.

You will NOT stay against Ghost-type Pokemon, because they can AND WILL damage you super-effectively. Normal-type Pokemon are the ones you want to wall. Seismic Toss is always the better option and Night Shade should not even be mentionned anywhere.
 
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